WOULD YOU VACCINATE TO BE ABLE TO WATCH SPORTS

[earl]

So they aren’t looking for a reasoned debate, they don’t care about your volumes of evidence, your overwhelming expert testimony, the crushing logic of it. They aren’t interested. They made up their minds before they even joined the discussion. It’s the opposite of the scientific principle. And that’s not me being condescending, that’s just the sad truth of it. More sad, even I think, that there aren’t as few of them as I would have hoped.

Your whole post is gold. It's not a debate about science or facts is it. I think this is where we get it wrong. We are trying to help and we are reasonable but you aren't dealing with people who are reasonable.

Here is the thing. A man in his 20's died yesterday. A woman who was in her 50's died not long back. If these people were vaccinated they would have lived.

It's going to be a tragedy for so many families.

 

[earl]

You're the one that needs to start thinking for himself. He and many other doctors like him helped many patients through covid treatments.

No he didn't, he spread untruths and fake medicine and is being investigated for it. He's been widely discredited by his peers. As far as COVID is concerned he's a dangerous quack.

You're free to believe him (at your peril), but don't expect others to be on bended knee before him.

Only thing thats fake is your blind trust to an experimental jab. Instead we have many doctors like Dr Mcullough who have had great results treating covid.

For goodness sake even the inventor of mRNA vaccine technology **Dr Robert Malone** has spoken about the dangers of the spike protein created from the experimental jab.

Again, Dr Robert Malone Is not the inventor of the mRNA vaccines or technology. He is a professor that once wrote a paper about in 1989. Yes it was an influential paper but he is definitely not the inventor. It’s like saying H.G. Wells invented space travel because he wrote about it.

Do you enjoy disagreeing with me for the sake of it? He is the inventor of mRNA vaccines

You still don't get this do you. A single persons opinion is irrelevant. Do you understand this ? The facts matter. Opinions do not matter.

Do you realize that people are dying ? Do you realize basically no one who is fully vaccinated is dying ?

 

[Radoush]

You're the one that needs to start thinking for himself. He and many other doctors like him helped many patients through covid treatments.

No he didn't, he spread untruths and fake medicine and is being investigated for it. He's been widely discredited by his peers. As far as COVID is concerned he's a dangerous quack.

You're free to believe him (at your peril), but don't expect others to be on bended knee before him.

Only thing thats fake is your blind trust to an experimental jab. Instead we have many doctors like Dr Mcullough who have had great results treating covid.

For goodness sake even the inventor of mRNA vaccine technology **Dr Robert Malone** has spoken about the dangers of the spike protein created from the experimental jab.

Again, Dr Robert Malone Is not the inventor of the mRNA vaccines or technology. He is a professor that once wrote a paper about in 1989. Yes it was an influential paper but he is definitely not the inventor. It’s like saying H.G. Wells invented space travel because he wrote about it.

Do you enjoy disagreeing with me for the sake of it? He is the inventor of mRNA vaccines

You still don't get this do you. A single persons opinion is irrelevant. Do you understand this ? The facts matter. Opinions do not matter.

Do you realize that people are dying ? Do you realize basically no one who is fully vaccinated is dying ?

Your glass is full no point trying to reason with you

 

[earl]

Personal attacks won't be tolerated. Please be civil and constructive.

Its not an attack. Im seriously concerned for people's health and welfare. There are deaths occurring from blood clots. This is fact

Please don't lie to yourself here. Your advice will kill people. Advising people to take the vaccines will save lives.

How many people have died of blood clots from COVID vaccines ? How many people have died of COVID ?

 

[jirskyr]

You're the one that needs to start thinking for himself. He and many other doctors like him helped many patients through covid treatments.

No he didn't, he spread untruths and fake medicine and is being investigated for it. He's been widely discredited by his peers. As far as COVID is concerned he's a dangerous quack.

You're free to believe him (at your peril), but don't expect others to be on bended knee before him.

Only thing thats fake is your blind trust to an experimental jab. Instead we have many doctors like Dr Mcullough who have had great results treating covid.

For goodness sake even the inventor of mRNA vaccine technology **Dr Robert Malone** has spoken about the dangers of the spike protein created from the experimental jab.

Again, Dr Robert Malone Is not the inventor of the mRNA vaccines or technology. He is a professor that once wrote a paper about in 1989. Yes it was an influential paper but he is definitely not the inventor. It’s like saying H.G. Wells invented space travel because he wrote about it.

Do you enjoy disagreeing with me for the sake of it? He is the inventor of mRNA vaccines

You still don't get this do you. A single persons opinion is irrelevant. Do you understand this ? The facts matter. Opinions do not matter.

Do you realize that people are dying ? Do you realize basically no one who is fully vaccinated is dying ?

Your glass is full no point trying to reason with you

What you are doing is not reason, just call it what it is.

 

[cochise]

Here is the thing. A man in his 20’s died yesterday. A woman who was in her 50’s died not long back. If these people were vaccinated they would have lived.

That for me, that ends the discussion.

 

[tigerbalm]

No and not to travel, go to the movies or anything else that they are threatening to bar me from
Coercion is a dangerous thing
And before I get told to follow the science, that can be bought and paid for and much of it is

So you reckon science on a global level has been bought by... someone, to, what, fake COVID and sell fake vaccines on people? You don't reckon we'd quickly find out if it wasn't real. Do you reckon they can fake 4.2 million global deaths?

Tell me one time global consensus science has been bought by someone.

Lots of leaps there and doesn’t represent my views so I won’t comment on your conclusions drawn in relation to my initial statement

That aside, in terms of bought and paid for science, the tobacco industry, sugar industry and even the artificial sweetener manufacturers bought some pretty favourable science for quite some time. That’s just a start

Truth does win out eventually though

I'd put it to you that truth already won out in 2020, and the lovely vaccines are what we have to celebrate with.

You do realise of course vaccines of various descriptions have been given to humans for over 200 years? That's a very very long period of time for the "buying" of science to be ironed out.

But so is COVID real? Or do you just not trust vaccines?

Also the concept - how much would it cost to buy out all the health authorities of the world, in order to sell a few billion doses of vaccine?

Again you choose to put words into my mouth and ask a series of questions in a condescending manner designed to suit your agenda

I’m not playing that game

They are simple questions. I can't create an "agenda" with questions - only your answers serve an agenda.

If you can't or won't answer the questions, that's fine, I don't know you and I don't care enough to pursue it. BUT the fact is that people who can't answer the simple questions about their position - it just undermines the strength of their position. A strong position, a strong argument is easy to state, easy to defend, easy to back up with facts.

The questions are too broad to respond to appropriately here, but let me try even though we are never going to agree, we obviously have different world views and that should be okay

I believe there is a virus but I also believe the case numbers are dramatically overstated with a non fit for purpose PCR test with its associated cycle issues. The overblown cases along with numerous other factors ("with" not "of", monetary incentives) lead to equally overblown death numbers, primarily in the elderly and/or those with co-morbities

Simple answer to the next one is, No, I don't trust the Covid vaccines, nor the organisations producing them, most of whom have a checkered history and significant evidence of wrongdoing leading to billions of dollars in fines

How much would it cost to buy the health authorities is again not that simple? Those with a voice have it through controlled platforms such as the media, social media, academia, etc. all either owned, funded or influenced by a surprisingly few mega wealthy. But control of thought isn't as simple as just money, it takes many forms; fear, threats, ostracism, disinformation, misinformation, etc

Facts are themselves a spurious term and fact checkers are in many cases little more than misinformation or censorship

I respect any individual's decision to get vaccinated even if I would not, but it does commit one to vaccinations, you can't remove it, so any challenges to vaccinations is taken as a challenge to the vaccinated individual

Call me what you will, I don't care. I have different views to many but that doesn't make them wrong or without merit

Do you know what Occam's razor is? Your statements are textbook.

The amount of work and tenuous balance that would be required to manage a fraud / deception on the scale you are suggesting is incomprehensible. If you are right, it goes way beyond COVID or vaccines. That level of control would permeate everything you do, it would govern the food you eat, the media you consume, everything. Those folks would control the NRL just as surely as they control a government or social media or anything else.

I could more easily count all the grains of sand on Earth than set up and maintain a clandestine conspiracy of the magnitude you suggest.

I wish I could remember where I read it but someone explained that it would not necessarily need a large cabal to execute something like the mass hysteria of a pandemic as long as they knew how to leverage systems that are already in place The media feeds off fear so mystery illness is a easy sell. WHO has very specific mechanisms to handle worldwide pandemics so again, someone with the right knowledge could manipulate and once the media and the governments are chasing their tails, the fire will fuel itself. I think they used Malaria as an example of, if marketed correctly could cause similar panic.

In saying that, I have no idea why a single group would do that and to what ends but thought it was a interesting concept. Also, I'm booked for my Jab.

 

[earl]

Call me what you will, I don’t care. I have different views to many but that doesn’t make them wrong or without merit

You believe it doesn't make them wrong or without merit. I'll state quite simply that your advice would kill hundreds of thousands of people in Australia if your advice was followed.

So my opinion is that your view is wrong and it is definitely without merit as the facts prove you wrong.

 

[Tiger Beach]

No and not to travel, go to the movies or anything else that they are threatening to bar me from
Coercion is a dangerous thing
And before I get told to follow the science, that can be bought and paid for and much of it is

So you reckon science on a global level has been bought by... someone, to, what, fake COVID and sell fake vaccines on people? You don't reckon we'd quickly find out if it wasn't real. Do you reckon they can fake 4.2 million global deaths?

Tell me one time global consensus science has been bought by someone.

Lots of leaps there and doesn’t represent my views so I won’t comment on your conclusions drawn in relation to my initial statement

That aside, in terms of bought and paid for science, the tobacco industry, sugar industry and even the artificial sweetener manufacturers bought some pretty favourable science for quite some time. That’s just a start

Truth does win out eventually though

I'd put it to you that truth already won out in 2020, and the lovely vaccines are what we have to celebrate with.

You do realise of course vaccines of various descriptions have been given to humans for over 200 years? That's a very very long period of time for the "buying" of science to be ironed out.

But so is COVID real? Or do you just not trust vaccines?

Also the concept - how much would it cost to buy out all the health authorities of the world, in order to sell a few billion doses of vaccine?

Again you choose to put words into my mouth and ask a series of questions in a condescending manner designed to suit your agenda

I’m not playing that game

They are simple questions. I can't create an "agenda" with questions - only your answers serve an agenda.

If you can't or won't answer the questions, that's fine, I don't know you and I don't care enough to pursue it. BUT the fact is that people who can't answer the simple questions about their position - it just undermines the strength of their position. A strong position, a strong argument is easy to state, easy to defend, easy to back up with facts.

The questions are too broad to respond to appropriately here, but let me try even though we are never going to agree, we obviously have different world views and that should be okay

I believe there is a virus but I also believe the case numbers are dramatically overstated with a non fit for purpose PCR test with its associated cycle issues. The overblown cases along with numerous other factors ("with" not "of", monetary incentives) lead to equally overblown death numbers, primarily in the elderly and/or those with co-morbities

Simple answer to the next one is, No, I don't trust the Covid vaccines, nor the organisations producing them, most of whom have a checkered history and significant evidence of wrongdoing leading to billions of dollars in fines

How much would it cost to buy the health authorities is again not that simple? Those with a voice have it through controlled platforms such as the media, social media, academia, etc. all either owned, funded or influenced by a surprisingly few mega wealthy. But control of thought isn't as simple as just money, it takes many forms; fear, threats, ostracism, disinformation, misinformation, etc

Facts are themselves a spurious term and fact checkers are in many cases little more than misinformation or censorship

I respect any individual's decision to get vaccinated even if I would not, but it does commit one to vaccinations, you can't remove it, so any challenges to vaccinations is taken as a challenge to the vaccinated individual

Call me what you will, I don't care. I have different views to many but that doesn't make them wrong or without merit

Do you know what Occam's razor is? Your statements are textbook.

The amount of work and tenuous balance that would be required to manage a fraud / deception on the scale you are suggesting is incomprehensible. If you are right, it goes way beyond COVID or vaccines. That level of control would permeate everything you do, it would govern the food you eat, the media you consume, everything. Those folks would control the NRL just as surely as they control a government or social media or anything else.

I could more easily count all the grains of sand on Earth than set up and maintain a clandestine conspiracy of the magnitude you suggest.

Not sure they'd bother with the NRL (Politis & V'landys maybe), but in terms of going way beyond Covid or vaccines, I'm with you

You'd be surprised what a well entrenched generational system of control where 1% of the people possess over half of the world's wealth can achieve and not surprisingly they don't really want people finding out

 

[earl]

If going by the amount of people on this forum who are against the vax we are Buckley’s of getting anywhere near enough people vaxed to get this thing under control. I obviously think anyone who don’t vax are bonkers and putting us all at risk, but we live in a country where your entitled to have a choice.

I'm starting to feel depressed about it. People are already dying and the numbers are so low. The numbers are going to go up considerably over the next 5 or so years.

People are going to die. I'm calling it now as the worst disaster any of us will see in our lives. I hope I'm wrong but the facts back up what I'm stating.

 

[Tiger Beach]

Call me what you will, I don’t care. I have different views to many but that doesn’t make them wrong or without merit

You believe it doesn't make them wrong or without merit. I'll state quite simply that your advice would kill hundreds of thousands of people in Australia if your advice was followed.

So my opinion is that your view is wrong and it is definitely without merit as the facts prove you wrong.

A tad dramatic Earl ......

I offered no advice so not sure how I could ever potentially be responsible for the deaths of hundreds and thousands (see Covid deaths in Autralia to date 927)

"your view is wrong", "definitely without merit", "facts prove you wrong"

As you say, in your opinion

 

[Tiger Beach]

If going by the amount of people on this forum who are against the vax we are Buckley’s of getting anywhere near enough people vaxed to get this thing under control. I obviously think anyone who don’t vax are bonkers and putting us all at risk, but we live in a country where your entitled to have a choice.

I'm starting to feel depressed about it. People are already dying and the numbers are so low. The numbers are going to go up considerably over the next 5 or so years.

People are going to die. I'm calling it now as the worst disaster any of us will see in our lives. I hope I'm wrong but the facts back up what I'm stating.

If they do do you think people may eventually begin to question the various vaccine's possible role in the increase in deaths?

 

[earl]

Call me what you will, I don’t care. I have different views to many but that doesn’t make them wrong or without merit

You believe it doesn't make them wrong or without merit. I'll state quite simply that your advice would kill hundreds of thousands of people in Australia if your advice was followed.

So my opinion is that your view is wrong and it is definitely without merit as the facts prove you wrong.

A tad dramatic Earl ......

I offered no advice so not sure how I could ever potentially be responsible for the deaths of hundreds and thousands (see Covid deaths in Autralia to date 927)

"your view is wrong", "definitely without merit", "facts prove you wrong"

As you say, in your opinion

It's not dramatic at all. That is the problem and the thing you aren't getting. It's the facts.

Your opinion has no merit because you have no facts to back up your opinion.

Your opinion is wrong because people will die if they follow your advice.

No drama. Just facts.

 

[851]

Personal attacks won't be tolerated. Please be civil and constructive.

Its not an attack. Im seriously concerned for people's health and welfare. There are deaths occurring from blood clots. This is fact

A 20 something year old man died of covid today, that is a fact, an alarming fact at that

 

[earl]

If going by the amount of people on this forum who are against the vax we are Buckley’s of getting anywhere near enough people vaxed to get this thing under control. I obviously think anyone who don’t vax are bonkers and putting us all at risk, but we live in a country where your entitled to have a choice.

I'm starting to feel depressed about it. People are already dying and the numbers are so low. The numbers are going to go up considerably over the next 5 or so years.

People are going to die. I'm calling it now as the worst disaster any of us will see in our lives. I hope I'm wrong but the facts back up what I'm stating.

If they do do you think people may eventually begin to question the various vaccine's possible role in the increase in deaths?

You are living in an alternate reality.

I'm going to explain this to you again. If you are vaccinated you will live. If you are not vaccinated dependent on your age you have a 1.5%+ chance of dying.

So your question is completely irrational. The vaccine will save lives. Not taking the vaccine will lead to a massive increase in your chance of dying.

I should add dying is just the worst possible outcome. You could be hospitalized and be extremely sick.

 

[earl]

Personal attacks won't be tolerated. Please be civil and constructive.

Its not an attack. Im seriously concerned for people's health and welfare. There are deaths occurring from blood clots. This is fact

A 20 year old man died of covid today, that is a fact, an alarming fact at that

I keep stating this. These crazy beliefs are already killing people. It's not a joke.

 

[Geo]

Personal attacks won't be tolerated. Please be civil and constructive.

Its not an attack. Im seriously concerned for people's health and welfare. There are deaths occurring from blood clots. This is fact

A 20 year old man died of covid today, that is a fact, an alarming fact at that

I keep stating this. These crazy beliefs are already killing people. It's not a joke.

His Mum also has it and has been taken to hospital


that's no joke..

 

[Tiger Beach]

Call me what you will, I don’t care. I have different views to many but that doesn’t make them wrong or without merit

You believe it doesn't make them wrong or without merit. I'll state quite simply that your advice would kill hundreds of thousands of people in Australia if your advice was followed.

So my opinion is that your view is wrong and it is definitely without merit as the facts prove you wrong.

Just checked this again Earl and can reconfirm you have not offered one single fact in your opinion piece

 

[TYGA]

Just got my second Pfizer jab. Feel a little sleepy this time around. Work can wait I’ll have a sleep.

 

[earl]

Just checked this again Earl and can reconfirm you have not offered one single fact in your opinion piece

On multiple occassions I've posted facts but I'll do it again.

https://context-cdn.washingtonpost.com/notes/prod/default/documents/54f57708-a529-4a33-9a44-b66d719070d9/note/753667d6-8c61-495f-b669-5308f2827155.#page=1

This is a leaked report from the CDC. You cannot get more factual than this. I have provided this link on this forum previously as well.

I also posted what I believe is the best available report on Ivermectin (a drug which the clinical evidence shows is not statistically effective) and I actually believe which the facts confirm that Ivermectin (a drug which the clinical evidence shows is not statistically effective) is something that has some really good use cases. This information is extremely up to date.

The point being I am not cherry picking facts.

Facts:-

1. The US has about a 60% vaccination rate.
2. In the US you are 8 times more likely to get COVID if you are unvaccinated.
3. In the US you are 25 times more likely to get COVID and require hospitalization if you are unvaccinated..
4. In the US you are 25 times more likely to get COVID and die than if you are unvaccinated.
5. Your chances of dying from COVID and being fully vaccinated is exceptionally low.
6. We have very low rates of COVID in Australia right now and yet people as young as in their 20's are dying from COVID. These people if they were fully vaccinated would have lived.


=> The facts prove that you are speaking complete and utter dribble. Your argument that I am giving an opinion is false. I am making conclusions based on the data. You can disagree with my conclusions but you cannot disagree with the facts because they are facts.