WT Ownership, The Board & Senior Management - MEGA Thread

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jirskyr said:
If that is true then why does the Board not sack Pascoe?

Pascoe may indeed be incompetent, in which case it is the fault of The Board for retaining his services. That's the same Board however that rubber-stamped Tim Sheens.
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I don’t think anyone is denying the board is also inept. Not firing Pascoe after that huge oversight just shows that.

I’ve seen fans of footy teams, individual players, logos or even colors but never seen admin staff groupies. I bet you know Pascoe favorite font right?
 
The Loud Drum said:
I don’t think anyone is denying the board is also inept. Not firing Pascoe after that huge oversight just shows that.

I’ve seen fans of footy teams, individual players, logos or even colors but never seen admin staff groupies. I bet you know Pascoe favorite font right?
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It's such a lazy argument you make here, accusing someone of being a groupie simply because you don't agree with them. Lazy.

I can't make it any more clear that I don't care if Pascoe is sacked or retained. Literally does not impact me at all. You may know I am involved with The Ambush, and the removal of Pascoe would have no impact on that either. We are independent of the club, and though I have have met with Pascoe a dozen or so times, it was only in the interests of building closer ties between members/fans and the club.

Are you not in The Jungle? Haven't your Jungle people reached out to Pascoe to try and discuss your own initiatives?

I am not an apologist for Pascoe and I am not specifically defending him. Rather - I am critiquing what I view to be weak and ultimately pointless arguments.

I remain unconvinced that Pascoe is NOT actually good at his job. The only evidence anyone can rally against Pascoe is (a) that Tigers don't win enough, (b) Tigers don't sign superstars, and (c) Farahgate. I remain unconvinced that (a) and (b) are the direct result of CEO incompetence, or whether they are even within the technical remit of a CEO.

(c) was obviously a total cock-up, though I believe NRL was unfairly harsh given all the other rorts in the league. Tigers and Pascoe should still have been way way more clever about it. They were naive. But The Board did nothing and the penalties are now paid, so we need to move on.

And thus the reason I see these threads as ultimately pointless is because fans have no power over the CEO or The Board appointments. It's like an old man shouting at the clouds. Not that I am against fresh new complaints or discussions, but that is not what these are. Specifically this thread was opened to make tired old arguments and list old failures. It was a veiled attempt to criticise a specific person under the guise of "front office". I didn't even make much of an original attempt to comment, I only wrote one line, but it triggered responses.

Oh oh but there are also, simultaneously, apparently "green shoots" of promise, and all we need is a new CEO and maybe a new coach to take advantage of these opportunities. Apparently Tim Sheens is a wise appointment. Apparently the pathways strategy is promising. Apparently the junior stocks look good. The CoE is about to open. Tigers are financially quite well positioned and sponsorship and membership are strong. Brent Read even writes an opinion piece today about how Tigers are arguably the best-positioned of the bottom clubs to turn the corner (and why Ciraldo should sign with Tigers, if he leaves Penrith).

Of course none of those emerging positive opportunities are a reflection of Pascoe, or "the front office" or The Board.

The whole argument falls flat, or perhaps more correctly, it just echoes around in the chamber. If Pascoe is indeed incompetent, then The Board are incompetent for keeping him on. OK, so Pascoe and The Board are incompetent. What next? If we can all agree that the leaders of the organisation are all incompetent, they should all be sacked or sack themselves... but they haven't been, and they won't, so what next? I guess we continue to shout at the clouds.
 
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jirskyr said:
It's such a lazy argument you make here, accusing someone of being a groupie simply because you don't agree with them. Lazy.

I can't make it any more clear that I don't care if Pascoe is sacked or retained. Literally does not impact me at all. You may know I am involved with The Ambush, and the removal of Pascoe would have no impact on that either. We are independent of the club, and though I have have met with Pascoe a dozen or so times, it was only in the interests of building closer ties between members/fans and the club.

Are you not in The Jungle? Haven't your Jungle people reached out to Pascoe to try and discuss your own initiatives?

I am not an apologist for Pascoe and I am not specifically defending him. Rather - I am critiquing what I view to be weak and ultimately pointless arguments.

I remain unconvinced that Pascoe is NOT actually good at his job. The only evidence anyone can rally against Pascoe is (a) that Tigers don't win enough, (b) Tigers don't sign superstars, and (c) Farahgate. I remain unconvinced that (a) and (b) are the direct result of CEO incompetence, or whether they are even within the technical remit of a CEO.

(c) was obviously a total cock-up, though I believe NRL was unfairly harsh given all the other rorts in the league. Tigers and Pascoe should still have been way way more clever about it. They were naive. But The Board did nothing and the penalties are now paid, so we need to move on.

And thus the reason I see these threads as ultimately pointless is because fans have no power over the CEO or The Board appointments. It's like an old man shouting at the clouds. Not that I am against fresh new complaints or discussions, but that is not what these are. Specifically this thread was opened to make tired old arguments and list old failures. It was a veiled attempt to criticise a specific person under the guise of "front office". I didn't even make much of an original attempt to comment, I only wrote one line, but it triggered responses.

Oh oh but there are also, simultaneously, apparently "green shoots" of promise, and all we need is a new CEO and maybe a new coach to take advantage of these opportunities. Apparently Tim Sheens is a wise appointment. Apparently the pathways strategy is promising. Apparently the junior stocks look good. The CoE is about to open. Tigers are financially quite well positioned and sponsorship and membership are strong. Brent Read even writes an opinion piece today about how Tigers are arguably the best-positioned of the bottom clubs to turn the corner (and why Ciraldo should sign with Tigers, if he leaves Penrith).

Of course none of those emerging positive opportunities are a reflection of Pascoe, or "the front office" or The Board.

The whole argument falls flat, or perhaps more correctly, it just echoes around in the chamber. If Pascoe is indeed incompetent, then The Board are incompetent for keeping him on. OK, so Pascoe and The Board are incompetent. What next? If we can all agree that the leaders of the organisation are all incompetent, they should all be sacked or sack themselves... but they haven't been, and they won't, so what next? I guess we continue to shout at the clouds.
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Mate you’re going in circles. I only read the first part of your manifesto before tapping out.

You seem to be confused at the fact that all agree the board is also incompetent. Your argument that “the board kept Pascoe on so therefore they are to blame” is just silly. It’s not one or the other, it’s both. Point to where someone ( other than you) is defending the board? The fact they keep Pascoe on shows how inept they are as well.
 
The Loud Drum said:
Mate you’re going in circles. I only read the first part of your manifesto before tapping out.

You seem to be confused at the fact that all agree the board is also incompetent. Your argument that “the board kept Pascoe on so therefore they are to blame” is just silly. It’s not one or the other, it’s both. Point to where someone ( other than you) is defending the board? The fact they keep Pascoe on shows how inept they are as well.
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No, actually nobody can say for sure if the Board is incompetent. We wouldn't have the first clue of what they are truly doing from a Board / governance perspective. That's the whole point. To argue that you know this is ridiculous, as is the statement that all of us agree that the Board is incompetent.

Don't bother replying to someone if you only read a few sentences of what they write, manifesto or otherwise. You are under no obligation to read it, but don't bother responding if you don't.
 
jirskyr said:
It's such a lazy argument you make here, accusing someone of being a groupie simply because you don't agree with them. Lazy.

I can't make it any more clear that I don't care if Pascoe is sacked or retained. Literally does not impact me at all. You may know I am involved with The Ambush, and the removal of Pascoe would have no impact on that either. We are independent of the club, and though I have have met with Pascoe a dozen or so times, it was only in the interests of building closer ties between members/fans and the club.

Are you not in The Jungle? Haven't your Jungle people reached out to Pascoe to try and discuss your own initiatives?

I am not an apologist for Pascoe and I am not specifically defending him. Rather - I am critiquing what I view to be weak and ultimately pointless arguments.

I remain unconvinced that Pascoe is NOT actually good at his job. The only evidence anyone can rally against Pascoe is (a) that Tigers don't win enough, (b) Tigers don't sign superstars, and (c) Farahgate. I remain unconvinced that (a) and (b) are the direct result of CEO incompetence, or whether they are even within the technical remit of a CEO.

(c) was obviously a total cock-up, though I believe NRL was unfairly harsh given all the other rorts in the league. Tigers and Pascoe should still have been way way more clever about it. They were naive. But The Board did nothing and the penalties are now paid, so we need to move on.

And thus the reason I see these threads as ultimately pointless is because fans have no power over the CEO or The Board appointments. It's like an old man shouting at the clouds. Not that I am against fresh new complaints or discussions, but that is not what these are. Specifically this thread was opened to make tired old arguments and list old failures. It was a veiled attempt to criticise a specific person under the guise of "front office". I didn't even make much of an original attempt to comment, I only wrote one line, but it triggered responses.

Oh oh but there are also, simultaneously, apparently "green shoots" of promise, and all we need is a new CEO and maybe a new coach to take advantage of these opportunities. Apparently Tim Sheens is a wise appointment. Apparently the pathways strategy is promising. Apparently the junior stocks look good. The CoE is about to open. Tigers are financially quite well positioned and sponsorship and membership are strong. Brent Read even writes an opinion piece today about how Tigers are arguably the best-positioned of the bottom clubs to turn the corner (and why Ciraldo should sign with Tigers, if he leaves Penrith).

Of course none of those emerging positive opportunities are a reflection of Pascoe, or "the front office" or The Board.

The whole argument falls flat, or perhaps more correctly, it just echoes around in the chamber. If Pascoe is indeed incompetent, then The Board are incompetent for keeping him on. OK, so Pascoe and The Board are incompetent. What next? If we can all agree that the leaders of the organisation are all incompetent, they should all be sacked or sack themselves... but they haven't been, and they won't, so what next? I guess we continue to shout at the clouds.
Click to expand...
How many more years of failure before Pascoe himself realises he’s shit? Ask him at your next ambush hook up.
 
jirskyr said:
No, actually nobody can say for sure if the Board is incompetent. We wouldn't have the first clue of what they are truly doing from a Board / governance perspective. That's the whole point. To argue that you know this is ridiculous, as is the statement that all of us agree that the Board is incompetent.

Don't bother replying to someone if you only read a few sentences of what they write, manifesto or otherwise. You are under no obligation to read it, but don't bother responding if you don't.
Click to expand...
They may not be incompetent at everything. They appear to be okay at the following:

- hat sales
- graphs
- obtaining govt funding
- putting their hand out
- indecision as it pertains to home grounds
- community programs
- prolonging NRL careers

Someone needs to show them prioritisation though, because none of this matters if your NRL team is a debacle.
 
BAGNF05 said:
They may not be incompetent at everything. They appear to be okay at the following:

- hat sales
- graphs
- obtaining govt funding
- putting their hand out
- indecision as it pertains to home grounds
- community programs
- prolonging NRL careers

Someone needs to show them prioritisation though, because none of this matters if your NRL team is a debacle.
Click to expand...
Those graphs were impressive
 
BAGNF05 said:
How many more years of failure before Pascoe himself realises he’s shit? Ask him at your next ambush hook up.
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Of course he would not answer such a question.

How many people voluntarily quit their job due to bad performance? It would be a very low number.
 
BAGNF05 said:
I think there’s issues at Board level and the fact they’ve given a CEO seven unfruitful years is indicative.
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You might be right, but again we have no control whatsoever over the Board. We can yell at them until we are hoarse, but only the Board can decide themselves if they are doing a good job or not.

Even if the Board are doing a bad job, who is going to remove poorly performing members? The Board has to do it themselves, and 5 of the 8 Board members are from the owners Wests Ashfield, which gives them the majority vote block. 2 more WT Board members are basically honorary Balmain appointees (because Balmain technically don't exist any more), and Lee H is the last one.

We sort of have to realise that we support the club owned by Wests Ashfield, and they do as they see fit.
 
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jirskyr said:
You might be right, but again we have no control whatsoever over the Board. We can yell at them until we are hoarse, but only the Board can decide themselves if they are doing a good job or not.

Even if the Board are doing a bad job, who is going to remove poorly performing members? The Board has to do it themselves, and 5 of the 8 Board members are from the owners Wests Ashfield, which gives them the majority vote block. 2 more WT Board members are basically honorary Balmain appointees (because Balmain technically don't exist any more), and Lee H is the last one.

We sort of have to realise that we support the club owned by Wests Ashfield, and they do as they see fit.
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I don’t for one second think I can change anything. The club don’t even respond to emails. They take your membership money and blow the cash. I won’t just cop it quietly.
 
jirskyr said:
Of course he would not answer such a question.

How many people voluntarily quit their job due to bad performance? It would be a very low number.
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It depends how you frame the question,

Justin, does there come a point in time where we have missed the finals 9-10 years in a row and you say to yourself, maybe I am not the leader this club needs?
 
BAGNF05 said:
It depends how you frame the question,

Justin, does there come a point in time where we have missed the finals 9-10 years in a row and you say to yourself, maybe I am not the leader this club needs?
Click to expand...
Pascoe is just a politician, he knows his time will be up eventually so just grab a much as you can until the dickheads work it out.
 
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