Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Leck]

There are so many incorrect and ignorant comments in this thread.

This invasion is about resources and gas, and Russia’s declining economy. Gas accounts for over 50% of their yearly GDP.

Putin is also a megalomaniac who re-wrote the Russian constitution in order to become a ruling dictator. However after 20 years he has done very little to position Russia as a true world superpower, so this invasion is just as much about gas as it is about his over inflated psychopathic ego.

If you can, take 30 minutes out of your day and watch this-

 

[Tiger5150]

Your welcome

Me too, so don't stifle debate in areas outside your interest or expertise if it pertains to the thread.

I didnt stifle anything. I stated how I feel about it. I dont see how that pertains to how everyone else posts anything. I never once said that you or anyone else can or cannot post anything. Its a public forum and the whole idea is people post their thoughts, opinions or feelings, as I did. You on the other hand have had the last two posts telling me I cannot do something or telling me not to do something. Not sure you are getting how this works?

Certainly not

If those reasons real or imagined were considered during diplomacy we wouldn't be at war today.

It is also a failure of diplomacy by the U.S..

IMO blaming the US or NATO for a full scale invasion of a country without a shot being fired is pandering and abject Putin apologising. There has been not a single action against Russia that justifies Russias actions.

Here is your chance. What action against Russia justifies this invasion and violence against Ukrainian civillians?

 

[Tim Sheens]

I don't think it is helpful and/or useful to bring Middle Eastern politics, it's thousands of years old relationships with religion and especially a teenage climate activist into this discussion thread.

Unless of course such actors have a direct connection and influence in/on this current conflict. Some five million people are out of their homes and possibly many, many more, thousands dead and wounded, some still laying where they fell.

Putin is an authoritarian leader that on this very day is continuing with imprisonment of his own people for any dissent or peaceful protest against this invasion of a UN and even Russian recognised sovereign nation. He is even virtually carpet bombing cities where his native tongue is spoken.

 

[FinestTigers]

You missed the fact that NATO acted in Libya in 2011 at the request of the UN security council in the role of protecting Libyan civilians from cluster bombing by Gaddafi.

To What Extent Was the NATO Intervention in Libya a Humanitarian Intervention?

Given the evidence of NATO's emphasis on regime change, actions taken by NATO in the Libyan intervention showcase how the intervention was not strictly humanitarian.

www.e-ir.info

Whether the UN is right or wrong and whether the UN seems manipulated and sometimes seem corrupted is besides the point,

The point being made here is that millions of people were displaced and died as a direct result of NATO's interventions,
Can anybody honestly say that NATO are not guilty of war crimes and genocide?

 

[Tiger5150]

Whether the UN is right or wrong and whether the UN seems manipulated and sometimes seem corrupted is besides the point,

Then dont have the UN. NATO were requested to interven by the UN security council to protect Libyan civilians from Gaddafi bombing his own people.

The point being made here is that millions of people were displaced and died as a direct result of NATO's interventions,

No, millions were displaced as a direct result of Gaddafi's actions. UN would not have requested NATO to protect them otherwise.

Can anybody honestly say that NATO are not guilty of war crimes and genocide?

Im not sure that word means what you think it means. I'll concede that "war crimes" would depend on who is passing judgement but genocide? Where do you think that NATO have committed genocide?

This is getting ridiculous. Relevance to Russia invading unprovoked?

 

[Leck]

Not wrong there, this post isn't a great start.

I can assure you total fossil fuel share not just gas of GDP in Russia is less than 25%

I won't bother considering the inaccuracies .

No you can't assure me because you're wrong. It's even higher if you include fossil fuels (oil).

Will Russia ever leave fossil fuels behind?

In Russia, oil and natural gas provide both wealth and deep national pride. With global demand for fossil fuels set to decline, how will Russia adapt?

www.bbc.com

This invasion is not about NATO stretching its reach through eastern Europe or encroaching on Russia's sovereignty across baltic states, it is purely and simply about resources and Ukraine's discovery of 39 trillion cubic feet of gas in 2017 and 395,000,000 barrels of oil in 2016.

Russia can't afford to lose their primary bread basket and Putin knows it.

 

[jadtiger]

Whether the UN is right or wrong and whether the UN seems manipulated and sometimes seem corrupted is besides the point,

The point being made here is that millions of people were displaced and died as a direct result of NATO's interventions,
Can anybody honestly say that NATO are not guilty of war crimes and genocide?

Every country in the world has committed war crimes at times however some countries do it as a normal aspect of war others do it in response

 

[Leck]

No you can't assure me because you're wrong. It's even higher if you include fossil fuels (oil).

Will Russia ever leave fossil fuels behind?

In Russia, oil and natural gas provide both wealth and deep national pride. With global demand for fossil fuels set to decline, how will Russia adapt?

www.bbc.com

This invasion is not about NATO stretching its reach through eastern Europe or encroaching on Russia's sovereignty across baltic states, it is purely and simply about resources and Ukraine's discovery of 39 trillion cubic feet of gas in 2017 and 395,000,000 barrels of oil in 2016.

Russia can't afford to lose their primary bread basket and Putin knows it.

....Oh, and he's a psychopath who I hope pays for his current war crimes in Hague

 

[InBenjiWeTrust]

No, millions were displaced as a direct result of Gaddafi's actions. UN would not have requested NATO to protect them otherwise.


Im not sure that word means what you think it means. I'll concede that "war crimes" would depend on who is passing judgement but genocide? Where do you think that NATO have committed genocide?

This is getting ridiculous. Relevance to Russia invading unprovoked?

Sadly, war crimes and genocide were done by everyone mentioned: Gadhafi, Hussain, al Assad, USSR (e.g. Ukraine, Poland, Afghanistan), Russia (Chechnya, Georgia, Ukraine), USA (Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan), NATO/UN (e.g. Bosnia), France(Rwanda) etc.

 

[TillLindemann]

Genghis Khan killed loads of people therefore Putin's done nothing wrong.

 

[TillLindemann]

In all seriousness this was the dumbest move Putin has ever made. For starters, he's spent the last decade trying to divide the west, and in one week united it. He's trashed his economy, made the ruble worthless, thrown his buddies in Beijing into a tailspin, lost billions of dollars worth of heavy armour and aircraft, encouraged Finland and Sweden to want to join NATO, lost his Nord Stream 2 pipeline that would have made billions, screwed his oligarch buddies, shattered any sense that Russia is a military superpower, and ensured Ukrainians will hate him and his country for generations (the ones that didn't already)

 

[Geo]

Checked out of this thread on page 30..!have I missed anything new..?

 

[Tiger5150]

Sadly, war crimes and genocide were done by everyone mentioned: Gadhafi, Hussain, al Assad, USSR (e.g. Ukraine, Poland, Afghanistan), Russia (Chechnya, Georgia, Ukraine), USA (Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan), NATO/UN (e.g. Bosnia), France(Rwanda) etc.

Most of those examples you have given are not genocide. When NATO & UN were involved in Bosnia, they were not attempting to wipe out a particular race or nationality. They were trying stop the Serbs from doing exactly that.

USA were not trying to eliminate a whole race of nationality of people in Vietnam, Iraq or Afghanistan. These are probably wars fought under wrong pretenses, its likely war crimes were committed but its not genocide. Same with USSR in Poland and Afghanistan.

 

[InBenjiWeTrust]

Most of those examples you have given are not genocide. When NATO & UN were involved in Bosnia, they were not attempting to wipe out a particular race or nationality. They were trying stop the Serbs from doing exactly that.

USA were not trying to eliminate a whole race of nationality of people in Vietnam, Iraq or Afghanistan. These are probably wars fought under wrong pretenses, its likely war crimes were committed but its not genocide. Same with USSR in Poland and Afghanistan.

Accept your correction re genocide of NATO/UN, USA, and USSR in Poland, and Afghanistan.
However, these are all examples of war crimes.

 

[Merlot]

Checked out of this thread on page 30..!have I missed anything new..?

check oot the luke brooks thread

 

[Tiger5150]

Accept your correction re genocide of NATO/UN, USA, and USSR in Poland, and Afghanistan.
However, these are all examples of war crimes.

No argument from me. I would think all of those wars included war crimes as well as the current Ukrainian conflict.

Genocide is a VERY different thing and relatively rare. Examples off the top of my head, Hitler WW2, Serbs in Bosnia, Rwanda, Serbs in Kosovo, China with Uyghurs.

 

[jadtiger]

Checked out of this thread on page 30..!have I missed anything new..?

More rabbit holes

 

[earl]

No you can't assure me because you're wrong. It's even higher if you include fossil fuels (oil).

Will Russia ever leave fossil fuels behind?

In Russia, oil and natural gas provide both wealth and deep national pride. With global demand for fossil fuels set to decline, how will Russia adapt?

www.bbc.com

This invasion is not about NATO stretching its reach through eastern Europe or encroaching on Russia's sovereignty across baltic states, it is purely and simply about resources and Ukraine's discovery of 39 trillion cubic feet of gas in 2017 and 395,000,000 barrels of oil in 2016.

Russia can't afford to lose their primary bread basket and Putin knows it.

I think your assessment is pretty spot on.

 

[TrueTiger]

You do remember what started the first Iraq war? Clue" It wasnt the US.



Who is making money from a Russia/Ukraine confilct?

Have a look back in history and see who benefitted most from those conflicts....
The Central banks that are in nearly every country and are owned by the same people...
The Vatican,Fed Res,The Royals(city of London)...
If there was a war between say Germany v USA,the fed would finance the US and the Central bank in Germany would finance them...Im not going to have an all out argument about the whole banking system,but they are all Rothchild/Rockerfeller owned and others ...so it doesnt matter who won or lost the same banks were backing both sides of the conflict...
I dont know who is making the money from Russ/Ukr conflict except for the corrupt neo nazis who are funded by G.Soros and co...

Its also very interesting to note that Putin got rid of all Rothchild owned banks in Russia...
I also read today on a US news site that Russ/Ukr were neg a humanitarian corridor so that civillians can move out of the areas Russ has specifically targetted and Russian soldiers were giving out food to the civillians...so as far as killing civillians and flattening cities may not be quite true,but MSM would have you believe...

 

[InBenjiWeTrust]

Have a look back in history and see who benefitted most from those conflicts....
The Central banks that are in nearly every country and are owned by the same people...
The Vatican,Fed Res,The Royals(city of London)...
If there was a war between say Germany v USA,the fed would finance the US and the Central bank in Germany would finance them...Im not going to have an all out argument about the whole banking system,but they are all Rothchild/Rockerfeller owned and others ...so it doesnt matter who won or lost the same banks were backing both sides of the conflict...
I dont know who is making the money from Russ/Ukr conflict except for the corrupt neo nazis who are funded by G.Soros and co...

Its also very interesting to note that Putin got rid of all Rothchild owned banks in Russia...
I also read today on a US news site that Russ/Ukr were neg a humanitarian corridor so that civillians can move out of the areas Russ has specifically targetted and Russian soldiers were giving out food to the civillians...so as far as killing civillians and flattening cities may not be quite true,but MSM would have you believe...

Putin may win this armed conflict if:
1) He commits to house to house fight, he has to be prepared to heavy casualties, or he may use Chechens, Syrians etc. as the cannon fodder ;
2) He disregards the Geneva convention and indiscriminately uses weapons of the mass destruction on populated areas - e.g. thermobaric bombs, and destroys cities, and kills civilians on mass. He may use the old Roman "destroy completely a smaller village, the larger one will surrender"

3) combination of 1) and 2)