Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here

[Yossarian]

Kari Lake would be great if she doesnt get the governorship, inexperienced but great communicator from her years of political speak on media

Again it assumes Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon is a rational actor who believes he needs a running meet to attract votes and who listens to advice.

 

[colinbh]

You can post a thousand of them if it gets you off, but it won't change the fact that she conceded the election the morning after the polls closed.

If you want to live in the fantasy land that Russia had nothing to do with Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon getting elected, with Paul Manafort also heavily involved, plus the FBI getting involved in the lead up to the election had no effect, that is your choice.

Presidents normally pardon those that are deserving or have reasonably served their penalty, and most importantly, removed from any relationship with them. Whereas Trumped basically pardoned those close and/or ones that were involved in plots and scams.

Ever heard of the Muller inquiry? Which found no evidence to even suggest that the Russians meddled in the election of Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon.

The FBI got involved when Clinton deleted 3000 government related emails from an illegal private computer in her basement. She has been denying the election result since 2016 and has even stated that the Republicans would steal the 2024 election. She is as nutty as a fruit cake.

"The facts maam only the facts"

 

[Yossarian]

Ever heard of the Muller inquiry? Which found no evidence to even suggest that the Russians meddled in the election of Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon.

The FBI got involved when Clinton deleted 3000 government related emails from an illegal private computer in her basement. She has been denying the election result since 2016 and has even stated that the Republicans would steal the 2024 election. She is as nutty as a fruit cake.

"The facts maam only the facts"

As I understand it the email address rather than the computer was the issue. And I think “illegal” overstates it. I don’t recall her being charged with an offence.

And you’re not accurate re the Mueller inquiry. What it said was no evidence of collusion between Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon’s campaign and Russia. It explicitly said Russia interfered in the election itself though.

 

[CloudyGlock]

I get it. I've changed my opinion after reading what you posted. That is the point of a debate.

Kudos Earl.

In stating that the point you are making is not clear cut which I like. You are focusing on the outlier cases whereas most cases don't fall into that category as per the stats provided earlier in this thread.

Thats my whole point. It isnt a clear cut issue, its not black and white.

So we need some guidelines and those guidelines should be made into law. The problem with the extremist right wing is that don't want any abortions.

And the extreme left wing want the right to abortion up until birth (in one US state slightly after). This is the whole point.

I'm hopeful you aren't that extreme.

I think Ive made it pretty clear.

 

[Yossarian]

I note Nevada has considerably tightened and the trend is favouring the Democrats. Nevada + Arizona = 50 Senate seats for the Democrats even without Georgia.

 

[Magpie_Magic]

I suppose if the Russians where involved in the U.S. elections many around the world would think the U.S. is finally get a taste of their own medicine given they routinely interfere with "democracy " in other countries.

 

[CloudyGlock]

15 weeks is too early for the availability to some testing, along with the consideration of the results of such for common issues. Down Syndrome being a reasonably well known reason, with the definitive amniocentesis sample test being a key one.

My oldest was tested for downs and spina bifida at 13 weeks (he didnt have either). Ultrasound, blood test and amnio.

Just as late terminations are rare, cases of both lives being lost due to suicide of a troubled mother also exist. Basically, whilst the father deserves some input in decisions, it should always come down to the mother and her doctors for mine.

Let me get this straight FG, dont want to misrepresent you. Are you saying that a mother should be able to kill the unborn baby in the last trimester because of depression and the mother may suicide?

Governments should provide guidelines, religion butt out completely and anyone that wishes to force birth, should never ever whinge about single mothers and social security.

Abortion as birth control? Rightio....

 

[Yossarian]

I suppose if the Russians where involved in the U.S. elections many around the world would think the U.S. is finally get a taste of their own medicine given they routinely interfere with "democracy " in other countries.

It’s a fair point.

 

[Tim Sheens]

Ever heard of the Muller inquiry? Which found no evidence to even suggest that the Russians meddled in the election of Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon.

The FBI got involved when Clinton deleted 3000 government related emails from an illegal private computer in her basement. She has been denying the election result since 2016 and has even stated that the Republicans would steal the 2024 election. She is as nutty as a fruit cake.

"The facts maam only the facts"

Absolute crap Col. Bill Barr did the world a huge disservice by lying to you and those similarly gullible.

Please have a read of that which you refer to and get back to us.

Search "where can I read the Mueller report" or similar, and you will be availed of the document.

None of this deflecting to this or that, read the bits that are not redacted and digest it.

In fact, all those championing the disgusting Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon should do the same, and following that, maybe, just maybe, there can be reasonable discussion on facts.

 

[Yossarian]

Absolute crap Col. Bill Barr did the world a huge disservice by lying to you and those similarly gullible.

Please have a read of that which you refer to and get back to us.

Search "where can I read the Mueller report" or similar, and you will be availed of the document.

None of this deflecting to this or that, read the bits that are not redacted and digest it.

In fact, all those championing the disgusting Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon should do the same, and following that, maybe, just maybe, there can be reasonable discussion on facts.

https://www.justice.gov/archives/sco/file/1373816/download

 

[jadtiger]

I suppose if the Russians where involved in the U.S. elections many around the world would think the U.S. is finally get a taste of their own medicine given they routinely interfere with "democracy " in other countries.

The USA has an appalling record of interfering with politics elsewhere (especially latin america) and no country would be able to claim innocence in that regard

 

[CloudyGlock]

Look I respect your right to hold that position, I just don’t share it and I think your opinion on how another rational human treats their body should be just that. An incest or rape survivor for instance should have accessible and affordable abortion options. I understand what you’re saying but I’m comfortable with a woman having the rights they enjoy in Australia.

Im also comfortable with the rights women enjoy in Australia which means a woman can terminate a pregnancy up to between 14 weeks (NT) and 24 weeks (NSW & Vic). After that point women in Australia do not have the right to kill the baby that they are carrying, because it is an entirely separate life to hers.

You may think that’s bullshit but I believe her rights are paramount and for me that exceeds those of the father and even the fetus.

I should rephrase my bullshit statement. I think "Her body her choice" is bullshit as a blanket 'cover all' statement. My POV is that yes, its her body her choice up until a certain point after which the rights of the unborn baby take precedence.

If a woman gives birth at home, picks the baby up, puts it on a table and leaves it alone and never feeds it and it dies, she would be tried with murder and sent to gaol, correctly. What is the moral difference a day before? Yes this is an obvious outlier but everytime some says "thats an outlier" then that's the point. There IS a point where it matters. Where is that point?

I don’t think you or I or the government have any business telling a woman she has to carry a fetus to delivery if she chooses not to.

I note you said fetus. When does it become an unborn baby?

Yes I have one child. He’s awesome.

Good to hear.

 

[Tim Sheens]

I suppose if the Russians where involved in the U.S. elections many around the world would think the U.S. is finally get a taste of their own medicine given they routinely interfere with "democracy " in other countries.

It's not a matter of if for either country, rather numerous interferences from both nations.

In the case of Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon, he almost certainly only attained his through collusion with the other.

 

[Yossarian]

Im also comfortable with the rights women enjoy in Australia which means a woman can terminate a pregnancy up to between 14 weeks (NT) and 24 weeks (NSW & Vic). After that point women in Australia do not have the right to kill the baby that they are carrying, because it is an entirely separate life to hers.



I should rephrase my bullshit statement. I think "Her body her choice" is bullshit as a blanket 'cover all' statement. My POV is that yes, its her body her choice up until a certain point after which the rights of the unborn baby take precedence.

If a woman gives birth at home, picks the baby up, puts it on a table and leaves it alone and never feeds it and it dies, she would be tried with murder and sent to gaol, correctly. What is the moral difference a day before? Yes this is an obvious outlier but everytime some says "thats an outlier" then that's the point. There IS a point where it matters. Where is that point?

I note you said fetus. When does it become an unborn baby?



Good to hear.

Fetus is a medical definition. It’s the stage between embryo and birth. How you paraphrase or interpret that stage is dependent on your perspective.

 

[earl]

Im also comfortable with the rights women enjoy in Australia which means a woman can terminate a pregnancy up to between 14 weeks (NT) and 24 weeks (NSW & Vic). After that point women in Australia do not have the right to kill the baby that they are carrying, because it is an entirely separate life to hers.

I'm cool with this. I think 24 weeks sounds better than 14.

This page details the actual laws in America.

State Bans on Abortion Throughout Pregnancy

www.guttmacher.org

I should add I'm no expert on abortion laws or the correct time to state well now you can't perform an abortion and if anyone has better information please provide it.

12 states ban abortion.
1 state bans abortion at 6 weeks LMP.

44 states prohibit some abortions after a certain point in pregnancy.

I assume that this means 8 states allow abortions at any point.

It's interesting to put the actual situation into perspective.

 

[Tim Sheens]

https://www.justice.gov/archives/sco/file/1373816/download

Thanks for that, as I am not very technically literate and sometimes have an issue with "clipboard" on this Samsung tablet.

Also, now you have been tagged, there is no excuse to not being able to find it @colinbh

 

[CloudyGlock]

I'm cool with this. I think 24 weeks sounds better than 14.

This page details the actual laws in America.

State Bans on Abortion Throughout Pregnancy

www.guttmacher.org

I should add I'm no expert on abortion laws or the correct time to state well now you can't perform an abortion and if anyone has better information please provide it.





I assume that this means 8 states allow abortions at any point.

It's interesting to put the actual situation into perspective.

33 states allow abortion from 24 weeks to birth

 

[earl]

33 states allow abortion from 24 weeks to birth

To me that is a fair amount. I think this is where the discussion should be focused on rather than any no abortion policy. There should be some middle ground here.

 

[Tim Sheens]

My oldest was tested for downs and spina bifida at 13 weeks (he didnt have either). Ultrasound, blood test and amnio.


Let me get this straight FG, dont want to misrepresent you. Are you saying that a mother should be able to kill the unborn baby in the last trimester because of depression and the mother may suicide?


Abortion as birth control? Rightio....

As far as I am/was aware, the definitive test is not carried out until 15 weeks and preferably later, due to limited sac size and associated increased risk, but I am no expert on the matter, despite us having gone through the process.

Medical progress such as new testing procedures and maintaining of viability age, makes legislated anything definitive, a somewhat moving, even if relatively slowly target.

In all circumstances, based on medical advice, the health of the mother is paramount for mine. No need to elaborate further.

I am all for the "morning after" pill for various reasons, none moreso than because of controlling partners.

My final post on the matter and thanks for this and to others that have been engaging in reasonable debate.

 

[bathursttiger1]

My take is denying reality and looking for drama everywhere. It's just wrong.

Elections, climate change, COVID, guns, abortions are all examples of it.

It's cool to be right wing or conservative but not so extreme.

I used to consider myself right wing but now because of the way politics have moved I'm left wing. It's not that my opinions have changed. It's just that the right in the US and maybe elsewhere has moved so far to the right.

Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon is a moron as well. He thrives on the drama and there is no need for it.

I don't see this in Australia or better put the nutters are a minority who have very little impact on policies. I also think the previous liberal government lost the plot and that is why they were voted out but it was nothing at all like Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon and his morons.

Oppositions don’t win elections, Governments loose them.