Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here

[TillLindemann]

The 2014 coup in Ukraine

www.wsws.org

Of course hardcore socialists would see 2014 as a coup, they are thrilled to see an ex KGB man (whose grandad was the personal cook to Lenin and Stalin) roll into Ukraine and bring back the glory days.

 

[The Sniffer]

This is interesting. Yet again he comes off as a guy who is on the ball in taking the right action.

Biden on the ball, on top of his game. I guess if your view is Biden is one of the good guys, your opinion might be a little tainted.

 

[The Sniffer]

Of course hardcore socialists would see 2014 as a coup, they are thrilled to see an ex KGB man (whose grandad was the personal cook to Lenin and Stalin) roll into Ukraine and bring back the glory days.

Just as valid as your opinion claiming there was no coup.

 

[Yossarian]

He was also VP when coups were sponsored in Egypt and Ukraine.

Maybe he likes those type of geopolitics.

So you’re saying he orchestrated coups in two countries, while Vice President mind you, to help out is son’s business interests? He convinced Obama? The intelligence agencies? Did he plan the entire Arab Spring as a cover? Mohamed Bouazizi probably isn’t even a real person. He’s probably one of Joe’s minions.

He was also VP when Sheens got punted. Maybe he was behind that too.

 

[The Sniffer]

Lol your source is 'World Socialist Website'

And whats your unprovided source? I could list another handful from a simple google search.

 

[Tiger5150]

Look this is what I hate when people can't make a good conspiracy theory.

Its not a conspiracy theory when there is a real verified hard drive sitting on a desk at the FBI with real verified emails. Saying the words conspiracy theory doesnt make things go away.

Someone says 'no qualifications' I know they haven't done their basic 101 research. Google Hunter Biden, look him up.
What are his qualifications:
Degree in History from Georgetown university.
Degree in Law from Yale University.

Qualified for a Ukrainian energy company board.

Upgrade your arguments.
To fight corruption, we need to insist on standards:
Family members must keep their business interests away from sitting politicians:
John Howards Brothers Ethanol company (Yes, that is why we have E10 Petrol).
Eddie Obeid and the entire Obeid clan.
Woolongong local council, Strathfield, Auburn, heck take your pick.

Whataboutism fights corruption?

You don't want me to vote for Hunter Biden, OK DONE. Now pull your finger out and argue to stop corruption with real anti-corruption measures and strong arguments.

Does a verified email exist that has the CEO of Ukrainian Energy Company Burisma thanking Hunter for organising a meeting between him and his Vice President dad that his Dad says never happened?

Does a verified email exist (with follow up emails from Hunter asking more details) in which the CEO of Burisma asking him to use his political connections to get the heat off Burisma, subsequent to the meeting with VP Biden and prior to Biden getting the prosecutor sacked?

Does a series of emails exist on that hard drive outlining Hunter Biden and Joe Bidens brother getting paid $11M from a Chinese Energy Company with a follow up email, verified by one of the recipients stating that Hunter was holding 10% for Joe Biden?

These are all real, not a conspiracy theory and they real independently from John Howard, Eddie Odeid or any other conservative whataboutism you want to throw up.

Tell you what is embarrassing, is when people are that determined to "defend their side" that they resort to this level of whataboutism in a completely irrelevant context.

This is a politics thread on a forum dedicated to a football team for gods sake. Im not trying to try and convict Joe Biden here and as I have stated many times in this thread, I dont think there is a smoking gun that on its own is proof of criminality on behalf of Joe Biden but my god there is enough verified shady information that an investigation is worthwhile and to be honest I think the level of defence for "their team" on this subject has been embarassing.

 

[Tiger5150]

They try really hard and they are very dramatic and they really believe it. The problem is it's not true.

Earl, which part isnt true?

The verified emails?

 

[Yossarian]

Earl, which part isnt true?

The verified emails?

Well there’s one “verified” (I put this in quotations because it’s a private investigation by one person) email. Ukrainian guy says he met Joe Biden. Joe Biden says it didn’t happen. I assume, given it doesn’t seem to have come up, that there’s no corroboration of this claim.

 

[earl]

Earl, which part isnt true?

The verified emails?

It's not that. There isn't any evidence that I can see when it comes to Joe Biden being corrupt. Even your attacks on Hunter Biden don't sound like anything to me.

Let's get some facts first. Hunter Biden is probably really smart and a high achiever. I really doubt he is someone who has been gifted the opportunities he has had because he is Joe Biden's son.

Does he do cocaine and hookers - maybe but I don't care.

I don't see any evidence of malfeasance.

Just to be clear if there is any proof of corruption I'm fine with prosecuting Joe and Hunter. I'm even cool with investigating him for tax fraud.

You see verified emails as some sort of smoking gun but I don't.

Put it this way I think Gladys had to be investigated. It was clearly a conflict of interest. I don't see that in this instance. The reason I mention Gladys is that I personally liked her.

You read way more into the available evidence than I do. Your interpretation is way more dramatic than my interpretation. I honestly think basically all you have against Joe is a photo that proves nothing at all.

I previously mentioned the photo of Trump and Epstein. I'm sure he met Epstein and was friends with him but my understanding is that Trump actually barred Epstein. That photo is not a reason to investigate Trump and I actually think Trump acted with integrity in this instance.

It comes across to me as a witch hunt.

 

[Magpie_Magic]

Ukraine was not a coup,

Disagree .

BBC reference. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957.amp
My point is re U.S. complicity in the uprising which is problematic

it was a mass popular uprising against a corrupt Russian toadie who broke his promise about an economic deal with Europe and then ran away to Russia, the democratically elected parliament voted to oust him, and subsequently several democratic elections have been held affirming massive support for his ousting.

Agree

Ukraine does not want to be a Russian colony, as they are demonstrating very well on the battlefield.

They choose to be a U.S. colony and I'm sure most citizens would prefer that, so that's fine.

Ukraine has never had democracy.

But what happened is that a Russian Muppet was usurped for an American one and given western involvement in the uprising that is problematic given the great power rivalry and the threat to world peace.

Anyway, just highlighting U.S. involvement in a coup/uprising while Biden was in an influential position making a point I disagree with Biden's geopolitical views.

 

[Yossarian]

Its not a conspiracy theory when there is a real verified hard drive sitting on a desk at the FBI with real verified emails. Saying the words conspiracy theory doesnt make things go away.



Qualified for a Ukrainian energy company board.


Whataboutism fights corruption?


Does a verified email exist that has the CEO of Ukrainian Energy Company Burisma thanking Hunter for organising a meeting between him and his Vice President dad that his Dad says never happened?

Does a verified email exist (with follow up emails from Hunter asking more details) in which the CEO of Burisma asking him to use his political connections to get the heat off Burisma, subsequent to the meeting with VP Biden and prior to Biden getting the prosecutor sacked?

Does a series of emails exist on that hard drive outlining Hunter Biden and Joe Bidens brother getting paid $11M from a Chinese Energy Company with a follow up email, verified by one of the recipients stating that Hunter was holding 10% for Joe Biden?

These are all real, not a conspiracy theory and they real independently from John Howard, Eddie Odeid or any other conservative whataboutism you want to throw up.

Tell you what is embarrassing, is when people are that determined to "defend their side" that they resort to this level of whataboutism in a completely irrelevant context.

This is a politics thread on a forum dedicated to a football team for gods sake. Im not trying to try and convict Joe Biden here and as I have stated many times in this thread, I dont think there is a smoking gun that on its own is proof of criminality on behalf of Joe Biden but my god there is enough verified shady information that an investigation is worthwhile and to be honest I think the level of defence for "their team" on this subject has been embarassing.

You keep making claims that have been shown to be inaccurate or misleading.

It’s been explained that the Ukrainian prosecutor was forced out for reasons other than his son’s interest.

The only “verified” email of any real interest is the claim Joe Biden met with the Ukrainian business man. Biden says it never happened.

Notwithstanding that one person says the email re a cut of the $11m being held for Joe Biden, everyone else denies it. The email cannot be proved to be actually sent from Hunter Biden. Joe Biden has released his tax records, presumably there’s no unaccounted for income? I also assume there’s no banking records or any other corroborated evidence to support the claim?

Once again, as I understand it, there was an investigation.

 

[TillLindemann]

And whats your unprovided source? I could list another handful from a simple google search.

Can you point out which bloke in the crowd is the dastardly American coup plotter giving the orders?

 

[earl]

Can you point out which bloke in the crowd is the dastardly American coup plotter giving the orders?

View attachment 4020

The Antifa guy on the far left.

 

[The Sniffer]

It's not that. There isn't any evidence that I can see when it comes to Joe Biden being corrupt. Even your attacks on Hunter Biden don't sound like anything to me.

Let's get some facts first. Hunter Biden is probably really smart and a high achiever. I really doubt he is someone who has been gifted the opportunities he has had because he is Joe Biden's son.

Does he do cocaine and hookers - maybe but I don't care.

I don't see any evidence of malfeasance.

Just to be clear if there is any proof of corruption I'm fine with prosecuting Joe and Hunter. I'm even cool with investigating him for tax fraud.

You see verified emails as some sort of smoking gun but I don't.

Put it this way I think Gladys had to be investigated. It was clearly a conflict of interest. I don't see that in this instance. The reason I mention Gladys is that I personally liked her.

You read way more into the available evidence than I do. Your interpretation is way more dramatic than my interpretation. I honestly think basically all you have against Joe is a photo that proves nothing at all.

I previously mentioned the photo of Trump and Epstein. I'm sure he met Epstein and was friends with him but my understanding is that Trump actually barred Epstein. That photo is not a reason to investigate Trump and I actually think Trump acted with integrity in this instance.

It comes across to me as a witch hunt.

omg, next level stuff. This account cant be a real life human. Its got to be a bot.

Let's get some facts first. Hunter Biden is probably really smart and a high achiever.

Can someone with the patience of a Saint, point out the definition of 'facts' to Earl please. And then post 150 videos/articles of Hunter Biden being anything but a high achiever. Especially the ones where he admits he got all of the positions of privilege, money and power due to his daddy.

@Tiger5150 Hit the ignore button for Earl and Yoss, makes the brain pain go away. At this point im led to believe they are troll accounts by 1 person. No one, let alone 2 people can be consistently dishonest, appeal to whataboutism in every 2nd post and interpret every evidence posted incorrectly at all times unless they are actively doing it. They have to be Troll accounts.

 

[The Sniffer]

Can you point out which bloke in the crowd is the dastardly American coup plotter giving the orders?

View attachment 4020

Top left, second from the corner.

 

[The Sniffer]

The Antifa guy on the far left.

fiery but mostly peaceful protest

 

[The Sniffer]

Hoping the adults now in charge of the House finally get to interview this democrat plant.

 

[The Sniffer]

You keep making claims that have been shown to be inaccurate or misleading.

It’s been explained that the Ukrainian prosecutor was forced out for reasons other than his son’s interest.

The only “verified” email of any real interest is the claim Joe Biden met with the Ukrainian business man. Biden says it never happened.

Notwithstanding that one person says the email re a cut of the $11m being held for Joe Biden, everyone else denies it. The email cannot be proved to be actually sent from Hunter Biden. Joe Biden has released his tax records, presumably there’s no unaccounted for income? I also assume there’s no banking records or any other corroborated evidence to support the claim?

Once again, as I understand it, there was an investigation.

But they havent, you keep claiming that, see your circular logic constantly exposed

 

[Magpie_Magic]

So you’re saying he orchestrated coups in two countries, while Vice President mind you, to help out is son’s business interests? He convinced Obama? The intelligence agencies? Did he plan the entire Arab Spring as a cover? Mohamed Bouazizi probably isn’t even a real person. He’s probably one of Joe’s minions.

He was also VP when Sheens got punted. Maybe he was behind that too.

Where did I say that?

My point is during a time when he held senior U.S. office with power to influence, events like those took place.

Now holding a senior role in a powerful nation gives him that privilege.
My post was in reference to whether one likes his geopolitics.

 

[The Sniffer]

Disagree .

BBC reference. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957.amp
My point is re U.S. complicity in the uprising which is problematic



Agree

They choose to be a U.S. colony and I'm sure most citizens would prefer that, so that's fine.

Ukraine has never had democracy.

But what happened is that a Russian Muppet was usurped for an American one and given western involvement in the uprising that is problematic given the great power rivalry and the threat to world peace.

Anyway, just highlighting U.S. involvement in a coup/uprising while Biden was in an influential position making a point I disagree with Biden's geopolitical views.

Pretending they dont know or have never heard this before

Counting down .........