Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here

[earl]

Point is why does @Earl like Biden's geopolitics. Can he at least say what he likes about the Biden administration's foreign policy?

Let's clear this up. I don't really care about American politics. I hated Trump because of the disinformation but I'm sort of over him. All I go off when talking about Biden is what I see on the ABC News in the morning or the Sydney Morning Herald when I check and can be bothered to read it.

I will tell you what I liked. I liked that Biden spoke up about Russian aggression when even the Ukrainian government were stating they didn't believe Russia would invade.

This topic is interesting though because Biden consistently cops it and I don't get it. This makes it worse because I am now biased to disbelieving any criticism of Biden. That is reality. There has been so much stuff that to me is so over the top and I just don't get that it puts you off. Case in point the fake photos of Biden in this thread that were deleted and I don't agree with 5150's assessment of the situation. It's reinforcing my viewpoint on the issue.

There is definitely now from me and I will continue to disbelieve any negative stuff about Biden personally. I don't care about Hunter Biden either. I'm not interested.

If they actually get charged and convicted and that is fair treatment then great. That is how the system should work.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

Hunter Biden is the GOAT failson.

 

[earl]

There’s zero evidence to support Biden influencing any of that or benefiting from it.

This is the issue. It's what you take as evidence. Sure you can go and find evidence but that doesn't mean everyone has to accept that as evidence.

Just because you say something is true it doesn't make it true. The opposite point of view is also correct. It's not that it's not true it's just that it requires more proof.

Interesting.

 

[Tiger5150]

@Tiger5150 Hit the ignore button for Earl and Yoss, makes the brain pain go away. At this point im led to believe they are troll accounts by 1 person. No one, let alone 2 people can be consistently dishonest, appeal to whataboutism in every 2nd post and interpret every evidence posted incorrectly at all times unless they are actively doing it. They have to be Troll accounts.

This is a politics thread on a forum for a football club. By its nature it is going to involve disparate points of view and even ideologies and they should be able to co-exist. To this point I give Yoss the benefit of the doubt that he is arguing with me in good faith. He clearly strongly disagrees with me but he has at least gone to the trouble of reading my posts, reading the corroborative references I have posted and responded with his counter arguments with often supporting information and usually responses with some logical basis. Whilst he obviously strongly disagrees with me, I actually dont strongly disagree with him, I agree there is no smoking gun, I just think there is enough justification for an investigation in the laptop information. The point being there is room for opposing points of view.

Earl on the other hand, by labelling me a right wing conspiracist without even the grace of reading my posts let alone my corroborating evidence, simply because I hold an opposing point of view to him has no place in this forum, in accordance with item 1 of the general Information on post 1 page 1 of this forum.

 

[Tiger5150]

@Carefactor @Magpie_Magic @TrueTiger @Tiger5150 @hugh1954 @Tucker

I suggest to you all to just ignore Yoss and Earls accounts. They bring zero value and dishonest arguments in every post. Its not worth your time. They aren't even trying to listen to what you are saying, valid or not. Brush them aside and we can have a real conversation about politics without every 2nd post being whataboutism with zero citations ever presented and childish retorts. Will lift the level of actual political discourse on here 100 fold.

Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. - Mark Twain

Yoss I believe is arguing in good faith......Earl has no place in this forum.

 

[Yossarian]

But not false. The only reason I say this is I have been extremely careful,however I acknowledge that interpretation plays a part. You have in good faith (the benefit of the doubt from me) held my feet to the fire in this discussion and where this interpretation comes into play I have made concessions and clarifications.


You posted an article that said that....at the same time you argue that the "verified" emails arent really verified because it is theoretically possible that they arent. That article you posted simply said that they said it wasnt, no corroboration. It is just the people involved saying "no it wasnt". Hardly conclusive.

it is still a fact that there is an email on Hunter Bidens laptop asking Hunter to get his did to intervene, and his dad intervened. IMO that warrants investigation.



Serious question Yoss, please point me to the source you are using that that is the only email that is part of the 22K verified ones. I cant find that information. What is your source that that email is verified but China ones arent?



I have seen one report that the payment wasnt made. Regardless if there was intent that should be investigated.

Of what? The laptop information has only been verified since after the election. There clearly hasnt been an investigation since then. Can you point me to information about the investigation?

But boil it down to its core parts. You have an email which experts can’t say wasn’t altered or even sent by Hunter Biden. It’s not a theoretical discussion at all. The experts said the security was abysmal and they couldn’t make a call.

No what I said is the verified emails are largely routine in nature. The only one of substance/contention/interest seems to be the one where the guy from Ukraine says he met with Biden. The other controversial emails seem to be in the larger cache of emails that may or may not be emails Hunter Biden sent.

From the Post:

But the lack of what experts call a “clean chain of custody” undermined Green’s and Williams’s ability to determine the authenticity of most of the drive’s contents.
“The drive is a mess,” Green said.

Many of the nearly 22,000 verified emails were routine messages, such as political newsletters, fundraising appeals, hotel receipts, news alerts, product ads, real estate listings and notifications related to his daughters’ schools or sports teams. There was also a large number of bank notifications, with about 1,200 emails from Wells Fargo alone.

Some other emails on the drive that have been the foundation for previous news reports could not be verified because the messages lacked verifiable cryptographic signatures. One such email was widely described as referring to Joe Biden as “the big guy” and suggesting the elder Biden would receive a cut of a business deal.

Sure. Here it is. https://www.congress.gov/congressional-report/117th-congress/house-report/495

 

[Tiger5150]

Zero proven false is a meaningless number if they can’t be verified as accurate. It means nothing.

Ok...Yoss I think we have reached ground zero here. Becoming circular.

An email from someone saying they met someone is not proof of anything on its own.

For the 5th or 6th time, NO none of these things are PROOF on their own. Together they imply corruption. There is no proof, no prosecution without an investigation. An investigation may find proof or an investigation may completely exonerate Joe Biden. My point all along has been I cant believe that people dont think this stuff is worthy of investigation.

They should keep you off juries if that’s the burden of proof.

Yoss, Im starting to second guess my benefit of the doubt that you are arguing in good faith. Juries are in a court of law. People dont face a court until after prosecution. People arent prosecuted until after.......wait for it...............an investigation.

They should keep you away from the legal system totally if that is how you think it works....see how good faith works?

If I send an email saying I had dinner with Katy Perry is that good enough evidence if she says she’s never heard of me?

Photos or it didnt happen.

Legitimate? Like say by the US House of Representatives? Transparent? Like they published their findings? You may be in luck there…

i wouldnt trust either side of US politics or any aggregation of them to carry out any legitimate, transparent investigation, probably not the FBI either after recent revelations. This carries equally for investigations of Biden or Trump.

 

[Kaito]

These last few pages have made
for an interesting/good read TBH

 

[Tiger5150]

Case in point the fake photos of Biden in this thread that were deleted and I don't agree with 5150's assessment of the situation. It's reinforcing my viewpoint on the issue.

No. you said i was not telling the truth and called me a right wing conspiracy theorist with absolutely nothing to back this up. Its gutless Earl.

Still waiting, please point to my post that demostrates that I am "right wing" or a conspiracy theorist.

Have some integrity Earl.

 

[The Sniffer]

Interesting debate, but I’m sorry, I simply can’t take seriously anyone who cites Tucker “I’m not even making this up” Carlson.

Same, I get all my news from CNN, ABC and the New York Times. I believe what they say so i dont have to think for myself. Its perfect that way i can actively ignore everything else around me in bliss. I like the cut of your jib.

 

[Yossarian]

Ok...Yoss I think we have reached ground zero here. Becoming circular.

For the 5th or 6th time, NO none of these things are PROOF on their own. Together they imply corruption. There is no proof, no prosecution without an investigation. An investigation may find proof or an investigation may completely exonerate Joe Biden. My point all along has been I cant believe that people dont think this stuff is worthy of investigation.


Yoss, Im starting to second guess my benefit of the doubt that you are arguing in good faith. Juries are in a court of law. People dont face a court until after prosecution. People arent prosecuted until after.......wait for it...............an investigation.

They should keep you away from the legal system totally if that is how you think it works....see how good faith works?



Photos or it didnt happen.

i wouldnt trust either side of US politics or any aggregation of them to carry out any legitimate, transparent investigation, probably not the FBI either after recent revelations. This carries equally for investigations of Biden or Trump.

Your conflating different things. Of course I know what a jury is. My point was there needs to be a reasonable burden of proof or corroboration to support a claim. Emails that possibly he didn’t send don’t meet that threshold. It’s not photos, it’s anything. Bank records, sworn affidavits, travel records etc.

I mean I did work in law enforcement for a decade so I’d like to think I know what I’m talking about. I’ve been a professional witness and instructed counsel.

They imply what you make of them. If you think he’s dodgy they point to malfeasance that should be investigated. If you don’t they’re unsubstantiated claims with little or no supporting evidence. That’s where we diverge in substance. Take Biden out of it and they’re not much. Mostly speculation and claims without foundation.

I’m sorry you feel that way. Despite our disagreements I think you’ve been respectful and polite.

Edit: Sorry I buggered up the reply function!

 

[The Sniffer]

This is a politics thread on a forum for a football club. By its nature it is going to involve disparate points of view and even ideologies and they should be able to co-exist. To this point I give Yoss the benefit of the doubt that he is arguing with me in good faith. He clearly strongly disagrees with me but he has at least gone to the trouble of reading my posts, reading the corroborative references I have posted and responded with his counter arguments with often supporting information and usually responses with some logical basis. Whilst he obviously strongly disagrees with me, I actually dont strongly disagree with him, I agree there is no smoking gun, I just think there is enough justification for an investigation in the laptop information. The point being there is room for opposing points of view.

Earl on the other hand, by labelling me a right wing conspiracist without even the grace of reading my posts let alone my corroborating evidence, simply because I hold an opposing point of view to him has no place in this forum, in accordance with item 1 of the general Information on post 1 page 1 of this forum.

I admire you for giving him the benefit of the doubt, however on the 18th time you have to explain, re-explain, or Yoss acts like he hasn't heard the info before, yet you can go back a few pages and see he clearly has, you might change your point of view about how honest his interactions with you have been.

 

[Tiger5150]

This is the issue. It's what you take as evidence. Sure you can go and find evidence but that doesn't mean everyone has to accept that as evidence.

How about evidence that I am "right wing" Earl? Should be easy to point to?
How about evidence that I am a "conspiracy theorist" Earl? Should be easy to point to?

This is the issue. I can t imagine someone with any integrity would throw offensive slurs around without evidence. You seem pretty big on evidence.

Where is your integrity Earl? Point to the posts I made that prove this or it is just a gutless slur showing you have no place in this forum.

Just because you say something is true it doesn't make it true. The opposite point of view is also correct. It's not that it's not true it's just that it requires more proof.

Interesting.

Glad it interests you Earl........I am VERY interested.

Over to you mate....are you going to man up or slither away? Interesting.

 

[The Sniffer]

Yoss I believe is arguing in good faith......Earl has no place in this forum.

Thats been known for a long time.

 

[Tiger5150]

But this is all pointless speculation.

Its a politics thread on a rugby League forum.

 

[Yossarian]

Its a politics thread on a rugby League forum.

That we can agree on.

 

[crazycat]

I find it interesting that:
People rejected Brittney Higgins saga as a "he said/she said". Fair enough.

A laptop, with a campaign sticker and post-it note saying "Biden" turns up at a computer repair shop in a state Hunter Biden does not go to. Most news outlets reject it as a hoax. Rudy Guiliani:

says he choose the ny-post because they wouldn't check if it is Genuine.

Ny-post leaks emails from 2015 with file access times in 2019!

Okay, so if I load up a laptop with Emails detailing how Tony Abbott and Joe Tripodi had a long lasting relationship and got married in the summer. Put a Nationals campaign sticker, add a post-it saying "Abbott" then send it to a Laptop repair shop in WA we would accept this as true?

 

[The Sniffer]

Jux said:
Interesting debate, but I’m sorry, I simply can’t take seriously anyone who cites Tucker “I’m not even making this up” Carlson.


@Magpie_Magic notice how yet again, no citations are ever given. Seems to be a running theme.

 

[The Sniffer]

I find it interesting that:
People rejected Brittney Higgins saga as a "he said/she said". Fair enough.

A laptop, with a campaign sticker and post-it note saying "Biden" turns up at a computer repair shop in a state Hunter Biden does not go to. Most news outlets reject it as a hoax. Rudy Guiliani:

says he choose the ny-post because they wouldn't check if it is Genuine.

Ny-post leaks emails from 2015 with file access times in 2019!

Okay, so if I load up a laptop with Emails detailing how Tony Abbott and Joe Tripodi had a long lasting relationship and got married in the summer. Put a Nationals campaign sticker, add a post-it saying "Abbott" then send it to a Laptop repair shop in WA we would accept this as true?

 

[Magpie_Magic]

Hunter Biden is the GOAT failson.

I thought it was just us fools posting lol but obviously many look on haha.