I think the issue is Sheens

Huh? don't use supporter tag but you call everyone here, watching or interested in WT ....a......supporter.

Anyways, you make an excellent point on the people running the club so I may not understand what you mean but I agree 100%!.
Not sure what you don't understand sorry Freshy. You are claiming people dont support the club/team if they support Brooks.
My reply was stating that support is support .... regardless of people's opinions of players ability.
The Chairman and even Teflon Tim have thrown out lines trying to say there is some sort of difference between a fan and supporter .
Same same , if you watch, attend , buy shit , read shit , get ripped off with membership or encourage your family to follow etc .....YOU ARE A SUPPORTER
 
Well Winston perhaps this weekend you’ll get your wish and see Wakeham in all his glory. Wakeham couldn’t crack the Doggies when they were at the bottom of the pile. I’m not as excited about Wakeham as most on here. I’d have much preferred Will Smith than Wakeham, even at halfback
I say we leave Wakeham in 1st grade for 10 years even if he has an absolute stinker. The precedent has been set.

Will Smith is not available yet, as the current halfback has kept up his usual poor career form and continued to prove himself inept at this role, I wouldn't care if they put another 2nd rower at 7, would add more value then the garbage being produced in that jersey at the moment.
 
The results last year also tell us we didn’t win a game with Brooks at 7.

The results are different if you change the stat to when we won when Brooks was at 6. He plays the same role if he has the 7 or the 6. It's not an organizing halfback or a marquee player. It's an average half in the NRL or maybe below average half in the NRL. The point being it's not like he is that bad. It's not like he is good either.
 
He is playing the same role. He did that on the weekend.



This is clearly not true. Last year it was obvious that Brooks was the best long kicker in the team so that point is clearly wrong. The second point about Hastings winning us that game might be true but based on our results last season the evidence suggests it's not true.

He is playing the same role. He did that on the weekend.



This is clearly not true. Last year it was obvious that Brooks was the best long kicker in the team so that point is clearly wrong. The second point about Hastings winning us that game might be true but based on our results last season the evidence suggests it's not true.
I definitely agree that Brooks was taking the ball at second receiver but that is because he was taking the ball second man from middle forwards so our halves could operate on either side of the field. That is the Des Hasler James Graham strategy to split halves, which worked to a degree but eventually failed with lateral moving halves which is what we have. What is absent in that action is a vocal organising half or attacking minded organising forward, of whom there are pretty much none, who is sending messages to not only the second receiver but the structure outside him. That is where we are falling down - messaging on the field is not up to first grade standard.

I 100% agree that Brooks is the best kicker we have in our team but would you sacrifice his kicking ability to have leadership ability? I think a lot of people on this forum, and fans who aren't, would. Kicking mechanics are coachable - Seibold spoke on NRL360 tonight about sending Josh Schuster down to Carlton to develop a penetrating kicking style. It is common knowledge that Melbourne have partnered with various AFL clubs to develop the kicking style of their halves and hooker. Cameron Muster has a textbook AFL kicking style. Could Hastings not have developed that skill? Douhei already has the kick below the knee AFL mechanic in his kicking in addition to the spiral bomb from midfield, which is critical in my opinion to a modern NRL kicking offence.

What would benefit us more - Luke Brooks' physicality or a smart footballers organisational skills? We need organisation, we need leadership, we need a cool hand Luke (no pun intended) fulfilling the role as the steward and custodian of our side. Luke Brooks in particular does not offer that and after a decade in first grade is not even showing the potential to offer it. I think Luke Brooks has every single physical attribute to be a good, even above average, first grader but that is not what we need. We are losing because we have no brains - cut and dried.

One of the great privileges of playing for our club is that our fans stick with people who identify with our club - Nofa, Brooks, Liddle to some extent. It is our burden as fans to change the way we view these players. We need players who identify with our club - sure - 100% agree. However, these players also need to be better than competent first graders regardless of their junior club, their fandom or their personal attributes. I'd sign any man and his dog who could help us win games of footy at the moment irrespective of where they played their junior footy, who their heroes are or where their dad played.

After Hastings was suspended last season against Newcastle Brooks had his opportunity to lead as a mature player and he failed. Nothing has changed. He was awful last season and in the first two weeks of this season he has been equally, if not more awful. Why did the Dolphins sign Isaiya Katoa who has outperformed Brooks in the first two weeks for 1/5 of the price of Brooks contract and we still have Luke Brooks? Why did the catalyst of our two best results last season - Parramatta and Souths games - leave our club because he wasn't wanted when he would take less than a seasoned player who oozes negativity and ineptitude?

As a fan base we need to be more demanding of success and that starts with wanting the best players available in the game - not the best players available to us who are part of our club. Signing Api, Papali'i, Klemmer and Bateman is part of that - it is a way better recruitment drive than Mautalino, Packer, Mbye and Reynolds but the constants in our side that let us down remain and they not only let us down continually but they make these incoming competent, and in some cases exceptional players worse.

It is time for change for Brooks and Nofa at a bare minimum and we need to drive that change by being objective about our/their ability, our results and our direction. Can Brooks and Nofa play good football - yes. Can they play good football for us - on the sample size no.
 
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Sheens has now been here for a year. He decided that Madge wasn’t the guy. What I am curious to know is how he came to that decision? Was it based on results or what he observed at training in terms of his coaching abilities?

Surely, if it was his coaching abilities, he would have been able to isolate what the issue was and capitalise on it?

He had time to work out what he needs to do but clearly hasn’t done that

I’m concerned for the next 5 or so years
 
If you look at our left edge attack last season with Hastings and Brooks playing on the same side with Brooks at second receiver we were actually quite good. I would not say that if we weren’t but we truly looked like we had figured something out.

If you put a player cam on Hastings you would see him talking to everyone in his immediate structure including Brooks. Hastings whose tangibles generally are worse than Brooks - way worse defender, way slower, terrible long kicking technique - has much greater intangibles - on field voice, footy nous, general intelligence - which is what we desperately lack.

Jock Madden was objectively worse than Douhei, Brooks and Hastings so I am not sure if he figures in this discussion.

A statement that I will make is that we would have won that game on the weekend with Hastings in our team. Douhei would have been given long kicking duties to make up for that deficiency in Hastings game and both halves would have played on the openside of the ruck to compensate for Douhei’s frequent positional and decision making blunders.
Congratulations on some very well thought out and articulated posts ToddSanchez.
 
Sheens has now been here for a year. He decided that Madge wasn’t the guy. What I am curious to know is how he came to that decision? Was it based on results or what he observed at training in terms of his coaching abilities?

Surely, if it was his coaching abilities, he would have been able to isolate what the issue was and capitalise on it?

He had time to work out what he needs to do but clearly hasn’t done that

I’m concerned for the next 5 or so years
I doubt these coaches are here in 3 years let alone 5.
 
The problem with Brooks which makes him hard to drop is that on a purely skills based footballing sense, he isnt terrible. He can break the line on occasion. He can get a repeat set on occassion. His front on defence is acceptable. He can show good toe sometimes. He is a bit like Woodsy was for me. You have a look at his stats after a game and they arent aweful.

BUT...just like Woodsy, these stats do not tell the story about how he really went. Woodsy used to get good meters and people said "look he ran for 120m, he did his job" Except he is a prop and did not make his meters up the guts, did not get quick play the balls and cause good roll on and as a result, we lost the ruck and the games. Luke is the same. People point to his 40/20, repeat sets and line break on the weekend with the official report by the club stating he was a 'standout'. However, he had a huge amount of opportunity to seal that game due to his opposition's poor discipline and injuries rendering them extremely vulnerable. This is the area he never stands up in.

Just as Woodsy never dominated the ruck, despite being a Test player, Brooks never identifies and exploits a weakness in a side to gain advantage for his team. Their stats do not tell the full story, but they are enough to keep them being selected week after week, year after year.

I agree. He has much speed and talent but he has seldom stood up in big moments like the good halves. Not sure if it's a temperament issue, or if he lacks footy smarts. Maybe both?
 
I definitely agree that Brooks was taking the ball at second receiver but that is because he was taking the ball second man from middle forwards so our halves could operate on either side of the field. That is the Des Hasler James Graham strategy to split halves, which worked to a degree but eventually failed with lateral moving halves which is what we have. What is absent in that action is a vocal organising half or attacking minded organising forward, of whom there are pretty much none, who is sending messages to not only the second receiver but the structure outside him. That is where we are falling down - messaging on the field is not up to first grade standard.

I 100% agree that Brooks is the best kicker we have in our team but would you sacrifice his kicking ability to have leadership ability? I think a lot of people on this forum, and fans who aren't, would. Kicking mechanics are coachable - Seibold spoke on NRL360 tonight about sending Josh Schuster down to Carlton to develop a penetrating kicking style. It is common knowledge that Melbourne have partnered with various AFL clubs to develop the kicking style of their halves and hooker. Cameron Muster has a textbook AFL kicking style. Could Hastings not have developed that skill? Douhei already has the kick below the knee AFL mechanic in his kicking in addition to the spiral bomb from midfield, which is critical in my opinion to a modern NRL kicking offence.

What would benefit us more - Luke Brooks' physicality or a smart footballers organisational skills? We need organisation, we need leadership, we need a cool hand Luke (no pun intended) fulfilling the role as the steward and custodian of our side. Luke Brooks in particular does not offer that and after a decade in first grade is not even showing the potential to offer it. I think Luke Brooks has every single physical attribute to be a good, even above average, first grader but that is not what we need. We are losing because we have no brains - cut and dried.

One of the great privileges of playing for our club is that our fans stick with people who identify with our club - Nofa, Brooks, Liddle to some extent. It is our burden as fans to change the way we view these players. We need players who identify with our club - sure - 100% agree. However, these players also need to be better than competent first graders regardless of their junior club, their fandom or their personal attributes. I'd sign any man and his dog who could help us win games of footy at the moment irrespective of where they played their junior footy, who their heroes are or where their dad played.

After Hastings was suspended last season against Newcastle Brooks had his opportunity to lead as a mature player and he failed. Nothing has changed. He was awful last season and in the first two weeks of this season he has been equally, if not more awful. Why did the Dolphins sign Isaiya Katoa who has outperformed Brooks in the first two weeks for 1/5 of the price of Brooks contract and we still have Luke Brooks? Why did the catalyst of our two best results last season - Parramatta and Souths games - leave our club because he wasn't wanted when he would take less than a seasoned player who oozes negativity and ineptitude?

As a fan base we need to be more demanding of success and that starts with wanting the best players available in the game - not the best players available to us who are part of our club. Signing Api, Papali'i, Klemmer and Bateman is part of that - it is a way better recruitment drive than Mautalino, Packer, Mbye and Reynolds but the constants in our side that let us down remain and they not only let us down continually but they make these incoming competent, and in some cases exceptional players worse.

It is time for change for Brooks and Nofa at a bare minimum and we need to drive that change by being objective about our/their ability, our results and our direction. Can Brooks and Nofa play good football - yes. Can they play good football for us - on the sample size no.
Add twal to the list then
 
I definitely agree that Brooks was taking the ball at second receiver but that is because he was taking the ball second man from middle forwards so our halves could operate on either side of the field. That is the Des Hasler James Graham strategy to split halves, which worked to a degree but eventually failed with lateral moving halves which is what we have. What is absent in that action is a vocal organising half or attacking minded organising forward, of whom there are pretty much none, who is sending messages to not only the second receiver but the structure outside him. That is where we are falling down - messaging on the field is not up to first grade standard.

I 100% agree that Brooks is the best kicker we have in our team but would you sacrifice his kicking ability to have leadership ability? I think a lot of people on this forum, and fans who aren't, would. Kicking mechanics are coachable - Seibold spoke on NRL360 tonight about sending Josh Schuster down to Carlton to develop a penetrating kicking style. It is common knowledge that Melbourne have partnered with various AFL clubs to develop the kicking style of their halves and hooker. Cameron Muster has a textbook AFL kicking style. Could Hastings not have developed that skill? Douhei already has the kick below the knee AFL mechanic in his kicking in addition to the spiral bomb from midfield, which is critical in my opinion to a modern NRL kicking offence.

What would benefit us more - Luke Brooks' physicality or a smart footballers organisational skills? We need organisation, we need leadership, we need a cool hand Luke (no pun intended) fulfilling the role as the steward and custodian of our side. Luke Brooks in particular does not offer that and after a decade in first grade is not even showing the potential to offer it. I think Luke Brooks has every single physical attribute to be a good, even above average, first grader but that is not what we need. We are losing because we have no brains - cut and dried.

One of the great privileges of playing for our club is that our fans stick with people who identify with our club - Nofa, Brooks, Liddle to some extent. It is our burden as fans to change the way we view these players. We need players who identify with our club - sure - 100% agree. However, these players also need to be better than competent first graders regardless of their junior club, their fandom or their personal attributes. I'd sign any man and his dog who could help us win games of footy at the moment irrespective of where they played their junior footy, who their heroes are or where their dad played.

After Hastings was suspended last season against Newcastle Brooks had his opportunity to lead as a mature player and he failed. Nothing has changed. He was awful last season and in the first two weeks of this season he has been equally, if not more awful. Why did the Dolphins sign Isaiya Katoa who has outperformed Brooks in the first two weeks for 1/5 of the price of Brooks contract and we still have Luke Brooks? Why did the catalyst of our two best results last season - Parramatta and Souths games - leave our club because he wasn't wanted when he would take less than a seasoned player who oozes negativity and ineptitude?

As a fan base we need to be more demanding of success and that starts with wanting the best players available in the game - not the best players available to us who are part of our club. Signing Api, Papali'i, Klemmer and Bateman is part of that - it is a way better recruitment drive than Mautalino, Packer, Mbye and Reynolds but the constants in our side that let us down remain and they not only let us down continually but they make these incoming competent, and in some cases exceptional players worse.

It is time for change for Brooks and Nofa at a bare minimum and we need to drive that change by being objective about our/their ability, our results and our direction. Can Brooks and Nofa play good football - yes. Can they play good football for us - on the sample size no.
You make a few good points and I agree with many of them.
One of the things that has always amused me about the Aussie logic when it comes to group dynamics is this need to look for a scapegoat. The urge to pin all the problems on one guy.
Isn’t that what the club has been doing all these years?
We have a board, we have 50 admin and coaching staff, plus 30 plus players, but some how we’re gonna be a crack footy team if we sack one player?
Here’s an idea?
How about we identify organisational behaviours which encourage a cultural mediocrity and simply change them for a more positive approach?
Too hard?
Sure you’ll get screams from those with a cushy gig, saying it ain’t broke and doesn’t need fixing. 😜
 
The worry I have is that Sheens can't sort the mess and Marshall isn't up to it.
I think if Sheens were able to sort the mess we would have seen inklings of that in the matches already played. He's had a full off season and I understand most/many of these players are new to the combinations in the team but if you look at the Dolphins performance as an example of a team who are also new to each other, by comparison, there is nothing in our performances so far that indicates any coaching direction.
With Marshall, when has he ever ben an exponent of structured play? His skill was in reading the field and playing off the cuff. I don't have much faith in his ability to bring this rabble together.
Not only an off season but 6 months of running the show in the background to watch games, training etc to know all the players in the roster and understand what hey were capable of doing.
 
The first game we were killed by errors, but most areas were far better. That was also taking into account Api and Brooks who did little training. The second game, the opposition coaches targeted our defensive weaknees , fullback, 5/8, and outside backs. Overall a bad start to our season, but it will take time to blend the side, and work out who is our top 17. We were never going to challenge for the 8. This build will take time, it's a matter of sorting the wheat from the weeds.
 
The first game we were killed by errors, but most areas were far better. That was also taking into account Api and Brooks who did little training. The second game, the opposition coaches targeted our defensive weaknees , fullback, 5/8, and outside backs. Overall a bad start to our season, but it will take time to blend the side, and work out who is our top 17. We were never going to challenge for the 8. This build will take time, it's a matter of sorting the wheat from the weeds.
A case of needing a good dose of ROUNDUP sleeve...there seems to be more weeds than wheat atm mate....
 

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