I think the issue is Sheens

[ToddSanchez]

If they are available. It's 2 rounds in and we've dropped so much ball. You can't keep blaming the coach but at the same time the coach has to be partly to blame for the inept performances for the past 2 weeks. Maguire was sacked because we were crap and not many people seem to think that was a bad decision.

I don't see easy solutions but we need a team that is well drilled and plays to their ability. That is on the coaching staff. That is their job.

Then it's up to the management (I think this is also Sheens) at the club to have a squad good enough to compete.

Then we need luck with injuries.

Then the players need to perform in the big moments.

It's round 3 though. A good performance this weekend will make the situation seem a little better. Parra came 2nd last year and they are on the bottom of the ladder.

If we win this weekend it will be against all odds.

One of, it not the most likely scenario could be us getting our first two points at the bye. We are nearly not playing well enough to be in first grade - no hyperbole. It is highly possible that our ressies would have won if they were presented with that match situation we had on Sunday.

 

[Jolls]

The final domino to fall is the players - we need to jump this hurdle.

Great synopsis of the situation. We are on the right track with our forward signings and I trust Sheens and Co are on the right track with AD, Staines, Daino and Brooks. The short term contracts are a good indication that they understand their limitations.

Without a doubt there is no use having good cattle if you can't get them to market. We need a couple of dominoes to fall though. We have the makings of a good team, but don't have the players to make the team gel. Neither Brooks or AD have it, our current FB doesn't have the punch we need and our outside backs are pretty average.

This year our focus must be addressing the team deficiencies by selecting the correct player(s). The priorities, I think, are pretty clear:

The right half (6 or 7); a fullback with positioning and punch and a strike centre.

We may even have some of the players in our current roster to meet some of the deficiencies while we seek "the signing(s)" that turn(s) the club around:

• Firepower in the centres. Could we move AD to centre to partner Naden/Toa where he can be useful. Can Feledy become a strike weapon given time to develop? Who is the interim if we think he has the goods?
• Strike at fullback. Will Staines show us his worth over the next few weeks? If not we have Bula to look at from round 10.
• Some direction in the middle? Could Wakeham be enough to steady the ship for this season? (I am hoping AD does succumb to injury so we get a look at him and Brooks in the halves together this weekend). If he isn't the answer to the question can Smith do the job from round 10?
• Strike power on the wing. I'm looking forward to see how Tupou goes on the weekend - Big Ken is expected to be back next week - could this be the new combination with Noffa to Reggies as depth?

We are building, it would be nice to be happening faster but we are heading in the right direction. I just wish the club could get over the fantasy that Brooks and AD will come good. They won't - neither of them have the footballing brain required to turn this club around. However, they could be part of the team that does turn the club around if we make the right strategic investments in our playing group.

 

[tiger_one]

Great synopsis of the situation. We are on the right track with our forward signings and I trust Sheens and Co are on the right track with AD, Staines, Daino and Brooks. The short term contracts are a good indication that the understand their limitations.

Without a doubt there is no use having good cattle if you can't get them to market. We need a couple of dominoes to fall though. We have the makings of a good team, but don't have the players to make the team gel. Neither Brooks or AD have it, our current FB doesn't have the punch we need and our outside backs are pretty average.

This year our focus must be addressing the team deficiencies by selecting the correct player(s). The priorities, I think, are pretty clear:

The right half (6 or 7); a fullback with positioning and punch and a strike centre.

We may even have some of the players in our current roster to meet some of the deficiencies while we seek "the signing(s)" that turn(s) the club around:

• Firepower in the centres. Could we move AD to centre to partner Naden/Toa where he can be useful. Can Feledy become a strike weapon given time to develop? Who is the interim if we think he has the goods?
• Strike at fullback. Will Staines show us his worth over the next few weeks? If not we have Bula to look at from round 10.
• Some direction in the middle? Could Wakeham be enough to steady the ship for this season? (I am hoping AD does succumb to injury so we get a look at him and Brooks in the halves together this weekend). If he isn't the answer to the question can Smith do the job from round 10?
• Strike power on the wing. I'm looking forward to see how Tupou goes on the weekend - Big Ken is expected to ba back next week - could this be the new combination with Noffa to Reggies as depth?

We are building, it would be nice to be happening faster but we are heading in the right direction. I just wish the club could get over the fantasy that Brooks and AD will come good. They won't - neither of them have the footballing brain required to turn this club around. However, they could be part of the team that does turn the club around if we make the right strategic investments on our playing group.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I liked all this.

 

[Buttface]

Flanagan always talks highly of the Tigers you can tell he wants the job.

He’s a Magpie.
He wouldn’t have worked under sheens though. But we’d probably end up with Jr at 7.

 

[liltiger]

I think it was in the ‘ask the boss’ segment with Api Korisou where he was asked about differences between Penrith and the Tigers and he mentioned “training finishes earlier here, so I have more time in the afternoon” I think he said they finish training at 14:00 daily.
My misses was listening in the background when I was playing it and just laughed. We just finished watching ‘All the way Premiers’, about the panthers charge to the GF last year. There are no short days at Penrith. And the player that spends the longest each day there is Nathan Cleary.

No short cuts, on 360 at some stage last week, they were talking about club culture and how at the Storm guys get sprayed for a mess up on the training paddock, at the Tigers there was a time one player took the batteries out of the remote so they could get out of a video session.

 

[Nonotmeagain]

Sheens’ only mistake was giving Benji too much authority over the team too soon.
Sheens, to his credit, saw Benji’s coaching style wasn’t working and tried to salvage the game.
We have a coach who didn’t want the job and a team captain who didn’t want that job.
Do we have anyone else in the team who doesn’t want to do what they’re doing? 🤣

Only 17 so there's hope.

 

[WesternSuburbsBoy]

I think it was in the ‘ask the boss’ segment with Api Korisou where he was asked about differences between Penrith and the Tigers and he mentioned “training finishes earlier here, so I have more time in the afternoon” I think he said they finish training at 14:00 daily.
My misses was listening in the background when I was playing it and just laughed. We just finished watching ‘All the way Premiers’, about the panthers charge to the GF last year. There are no short days at Penrith. And the player that spends the longest each day there is Nathan Cleary.

He also noted that we start training earlier than Penrith.... starting earlier = finishing earlier

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

He also noted that we start training earlier than Penrith.... starting earlier = finishing earlier

We ought to be starting earlier and finishing later than Penrith.

 

[Halbrowne61]

I think it was in the ‘ask the boss’ segment with Api Korisou where he was asked about differences between Penrith and the Tigers and he mentioned “training finishes earlier here, so I have more time in the afternoon” I think he said they finish training at 14:00 daily.
My misses was listening in the background when I was playing it and just laughed. We just finished watching ‘All the way Premiers’, about the panthers charge to the GF last year. There are no short days at Penrith. And the player that spends the longest each day there is Nathan Cleary.

Obviously Tim subscribes to the less is more maxim. We can see the success of that in the first 2 games.
Even if it was short and smart training, that would be ok, but it looks like it’s short and stupid.
Or maybe Tim just has to make time for his Grandpa nap. VIP at his age.

 

[jmello]

Our 1, 6 and 7 lack “footy IQ”.

Bula is being groomed to be our long term fullback. Daine Laurie’s days are numbered.

We need replacements for both Doueihi and Brooks —> neither have the capability of elevating us to being a competitive side

Without IQ, there’s very little Sheens can do

 

[Lauren]

Don't feel our coaching should be completely disregarded.
Our best chances to make the 8 (subsequent to the Sheens sacking) only came in 2016, 2018 and 2019 and while I don't think our 2018 and 2019 were competitive enough for Finals Footy, that 2016 team would've been exciting to watch IMO. Hence the sacking of Taylor was warranted (given the whole Farah saga) and now people are questioning whether Madge should've been sacked at all - though he gained a 9th place team and the team regressed.

In 2013 we came 15th, winning 7 games. Mick Potter was our coach.
In 2014 we came 13th, winning 10 games.
In 2015 we came 15th, winning 8 games.
Jason Taylor was our coach.
In 2016 we came 9th, winning 11 games.
Jason Taylor was our coach.
In 2017 we came 14th, winning 7 games.
Jason Taylor, Andrew Webster (briefly) and Ivan Cleary our coaches.
In 2018 we came 9th, winning 12 games.
Ivan Cleary was our coach.
In 2019 we came 9th, winning 11 games.
Michael Maguire was our coach.
In 2020 we came 11th, winning 7 games.
Michael Maguire was our coach.
In 2021 we came 13th, winning 8 of our games.
Michael Maguire was our coach.
In 2022 we came 16th, winning 4 of our games.
Michael Maguire and Brett Kimmorley our coaches.

I was hoping we got either John Morris or Shane Flanagan (despite what he did) tbh, purely due to their success with the Sharks team (lower grades and NRL side). Either way I believe Sheens appointment as Head of Football was perfect (for the club's future) and while role has changed, hopefully we can still reap the benefits from his expertise.

 

[tony soprano]

Is wests ashfiield the issue?

 

[Stevec]

I think letting AD insist on no 6 is not what's best for team .We need class centers and Adam can make one of them .We don't have a backline that's resembles the top sides
Even the Dolphins a brand new squad do and pass ball across backline with FB chiming in to create overlap for wingers . Only time our wingers get ball is receiving kicks on our 10m and doing hit ups. We just don't resemble normal plays we start moves and then someone either with a drop or a pointless charge at the defensive line kills the play .
Our forwards trying barge over trys over and over is not exactly intelligent
Brooks went from boring structured play last year being pass and kick on 5th to attempting to take the line on almost every time he touches ball this year .What is needed is JUDGEMENT meaning take the line on sometimes when you spot a defensive gap or vulnerable situation
This is coaching ! If coaching is not to blame we are saying our players lack basic skills ?
No the coach needs to put a coordinated team on the field not 13 individuals

 

[tony soprano]

I think letting AD insist on no 6 is not what's best for team .We need class centers and Adam can make one of them .We don't have a backline that's resembles the top sides
Even the Dolphins a brand new squad do and pass ball across backline with FB chiming in to create overlap for wingers . Only time our wingers get ball is receiving kicks on our 10m and doing hit ups. We just don't resemble normal plays we start moves and then someone either with a drop or a pointless charge at the defensive line kills the play .
Our forwards trying barge over trys over and over is not exactly intelligent
Brooks went from boring structured play last year being pass and kick on 5th to attempting to take the line on almost every time he touches ball this year .What is needed is JUDGEMENT meaning take the line on sometimes when you spot a defensive gap or vulnerable situation
This is coaching ! If coaching is not to blame we are saying our players lack basic skills ?
No the coach needs to put a coordinated team on the field not 13 individuals

Exactly, Holmes doesn't whinge about not being a fullback. Although probably still on a good wage

 

[Stevec]

Exactly, Holmes doesn't whinge about not being a fullback. Although probably still on a good wage

Further note the Dolphins 3rd win headlines "wingers run riot "
The ball never gets to our wingers certainly not with any overlap or space

 

[Roar_Power]

The difference in skillset between WT's and the other 16 teams is chalk and cheese. Even Newcastle looked more cohesive yesterday (with several injuries) than what we do. I honestly have no idea what pre season included but its left the team with many questions to be answered very quickly or another season is going to fall by the wayside. Sheens hasn't shown an ounce of prowess yet - just a confident and arrogant persona that's going to make him a laughing stock by round 27.

 

[earl]

The difference in skillset between WT's and the other 16 teams is chalk and cheese. Even Newcastle looked more cohesive yesterday (with several injuries) than what we do. I honestly have no idea what pre season included but its left the team with many questions to be answered very quickly or another season is going to fall by the wayside. Sheens hasn't shown an ounce of prowess yet - just a confident and arrogant persona that's going to make him a laughing stock by round 27.

I really hope we turn this around tomorrow.

 

[Tiger-ferret]

The difference in skillset between WT's and the other 16 teams is chalk and cheese. Even Newcastle looked more cohesive yesterday (with several injuries) than what we do. I honestly have no idea what pre season included but its left the team with many questions to be answered very quickly or another season is going to fall by the wayside. Sheens hasn't shown an ounce of prowess yet - just a confident and arrogant persona that's going to make him a laughing stock by round 27.

They didn’t have the toughest preseason ever?

 

[TigerNeddyK]

I definitely agree that Brooks was taking the ball at second receiver but that is because he was taking the ball second man from middle forwards so our halves could operate on either side of the field. That is the Des Hasler James Graham strategy to split halves, which worked to a degree but eventually failed with lateral moving halves which is what we have. What is absent in that action is a vocal organising half or attacking minded organising forward, of whom there are pretty much none, who is sending messages to not only the second receiver but the structure outside him. That is where we are falling down - messaging on the field is not up to first grade standard.

I 100% agree that Brooks is the best kicker we have in our team but would you sacrifice his kicking ability to have leadership ability? I think a lot of people on this forum, and fans who aren't, would. Kicking mechanics are coachable - Seibold spoke on NRL360 tonight about sending Josh Schuster down to Carlton to develop a penetrating kicking style. It is common knowledge that Melbourne have partnered with various AFL clubs to develop the kicking style of their halves and hooker. Cameron Muster has a textbook AFL kicking style. Could Hastings not have developed that skill? Douhei already has the kick below the knee AFL mechanic in his kicking in addition to the spiral bomb from midfield, which is critical in my opinion to a modern NRL kicking offence.

What would benefit us more - Luke Brooks' physicality or a smart footballers organisational skills? We need organisation, we need leadership, we need a cool hand Luke (no pun intended) fulfilling the role as the steward and custodian of our side. Luke Brooks in particular does not offer that and after a decade in first grade is not even showing the potential to offer it. I think Luke Brooks has every single physical attribute to be a good, even above average, first grader but that is not what we need. We are losing because we have no brains - cut and dried.

One of the great privileges of playing for our club is that our fans stick with people who identify with our club - Nofa, Brooks, Liddle to some extent. It is our burden as fans to change the way we view these players. We need players who identify with our club - sure - 100% agree. However, these players also need to be better than competent first graders regardless of their junior club, their fandom or their personal attributes. I'd sign any man and his dog who could help us win games of footy at the moment irrespective of where they played their junior footy, who their heroes are or where their dad played.

After Hastings was suspended last season against Newcastle Brooks had his opportunity to lead as a mature player and he failed. Nothing has changed. He was awful last season and in the first two weeks of this season he has been equally, if not more awful. Why did the Dolphins sign Isaiya Katoa who has outperformed Brooks in the first two weeks for 1/5 of the price of Brooks contract and we still have Luke Brooks? Why did the catalyst of our two best results last season - Parramatta and Souths games - leave our club because he wasn't wanted when he would take less than a seasoned player who oozes negativity and ineptitude?

As a fan base we need to be more demanding of success and that starts with wanting the best players available in the game - not the best players available to us who are part of our club. Signing Api, Papali'i, Klemmer and Bateman is part of that - it is a way better recruitment drive than Mautalino, Packer, Mbye and Reynolds but the constants in our side that let us down remain and they not only let us down continually but they make these incoming competent, and in some cases exceptional players worse.

It is time for change for Brooks and Nofa at a bare minimum and we need to drive that change by being objective about our/their ability, our results and our direction. Can Brooks and Nofa play good football - yes. Can they play good football for us - on the sample size no.

💯

 

[NT_Tiger]

Following the Titans/Storm game, the ABC grandstand crew was discussing our disastrous start to this season. I didn't catch all of it but my take aways were; They are as confused as we are about why we are playing so badly, The Sheens/Marshall coaching arrangement is a mistake. They were not positive about the rest of this season.
Sorry I can't give you more but I was busy and only half listening. If anyone has a recording, it's worth listening to. I agreed with much of what they said.