WT Ownership, The Board & Senior Management - MEGA Thread

[Lauren]

“I think a trick is, you make sure you get people who understand the areas that they’re evaluating so that someone doesn’t end up evaluating things they don’t understand.”

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Notice Essendon came 15th last year and are currently 5th. So having an external review seems to have it's advantages and works, I also wanted to share the preluding message as feel it's significant. Btw I do not follow AFL but found an article (shared link above) about their latest review and wanted to post for members.

Poor leadership. Poor strategic planning and execution. Misaligned strategy and leadership. Poor collaborative leadership. Poor Leadership. Poor coaching. Poor team/club culture & identity. Poorly defined roles. Poor recruitment and retention.
We often point these types of things out. But say the review recommends the dismissal of a whole heap of personnel, who are they being replaced with? How time consuming will that process be? How much of an investment (financially) will that be? Can this potentially create a financial crisis?

What are the exact challenges that are holding us back as a club? Are all limitations self-inflicted?
Who is responsible for key decision making? Feels like there's no balance with accountability, seems we have certain figureheads - who don't actually have any authority despite what we believe.
How long will a review take?
Will it unravel a lot more than we expected? Is it an entanglement of issues?
Wests Asfields holds the NRL license, can this force them to selling it? Will the club therefore have a buyer? Is there any danger the NRL will label it as causing disrepute and kick us out?

There's not one supporter who wouldn't like to see the club and team in a better place but after reading that one article it has honestly only created more questions than answers for me.
Hoping someone can provide more details about the process and all possible ramifications. (Maybe in summary form).

 

[jirskyr]

What do you mean by personal authority? You understand what positional authority is right?
It’s possible that the head coach’s PA was modified, I don’t know? I just assume that the HC was responsible for hiring and firing his own team? Isn’t that the case at other clubs?

Sorry I misread the word you used. Personal authority is where people do things that you ask because of your ability / example / reputation and not just because of your position / job title.

In the case of Wests Tigers, the Head Coach used to call all the shots all the way down to Pathways (which is how Sheens operated back in 2003) and now the Head Coach is more limited to first-grade operations, though I don't know for a fact how much more official authority Sheens has, given that he wasn't replaced as Head of Football Ops.

So I was not clear what examples you were referring to when you previously said the Board over-rode the positional authority of the coach. I also don't know to whom you are referring now when you say "responsible for hiring and firing his own team". Who are the team members to which you refer?

 

[426Tlgerland]

what would help is the board admit they suck and all draw short straws , if there is 8 directors , 4 go , simple ( 4 shortest Straws ) no lose either as they are rubbish .
lee and Justin , same deal , short straw goes
Sheens to move t head of football effective immediately
Benji to take over Immediately ( Sheens bared from first grade training and team selection )
Fulton to work with Benji and give him who he wants now
Board to stay out of player selection. , Retention , Purchases
New Directors = Will need some football Background ( Joe Cool type )
Benji to select his own Assistants , Trainers , physio etc .
Benji to clean out dud players this year , no holds bared clean out

 

[balmain boy]

What do you mean by personal authority? You understand what positional authority is right?
It’s possible that the head coach’s PA was modified, I don’t know? I just assume that the HC was responsible for hiring and firing his own team? Isn’t that the case at other clubs?

A head coach would be able to pick their assistants yes, possibly their physios too if they have a strong preference. But still all staff signings would go through the GM of football/CEO and be approved as meeting the club's vision and standards.

 

[Magpie_Magic]

“I think a trick is, you make sure you get people who understand the areas that they’re evaluating so that someone doesn’t end up evaluating things they don’t understand.”

No Cookies | CODE Sports

No Cookies | CODE Sports

www.codesports.com.au

Notice Essendon came 15th last year and are currently 5th. So having an external review seems to have it's advantages and works, I also wanted to share the preluding message as feel it's significant. Btw I do not follow AFL but found an article (shared link above) about their latest review and wanted to post for members.

Poor leadership. Poor strategic planning and execution. Misaligned strategy and leadership. Poor collaborative leadership. Poor Leadership. Poor coaching. Poor team/club culture & identity. Poorly defined roles. Poor recruitment and retention.
We often point these types of things out. But say the review recommends the dismissal of a whole heap of personnel, who are they being replaced with? How time consuming will that process be? How much of an investment (financially) will that be? Can this potentially create a financial crisis?

What are the exact challenges that are holding us back as a club? Are all limitations self-inflicted?
Who is responsible for key decision making? Feels like there's no balance with accountability, seems we have certain figureheads - who don't actually have any authority despite what we believe.
How long will a review take?
Will it unravel a lot more than we expected? Is it an entanglement of issues?
Wests Asfields holds the NRL license, can this force them to selling it? Will the club therefore have a buyer? Is there any danger the NRL will label it as causing disrepute and kick us out?

There's not one supporter who wouldn't like to see the club and team in a better place but after reading that one article it has honestly only created more questions than answers for me.
Hoping someone can provide more details about the process and all possible ramifications. (Maybe in summary form).

Yes, a good post.

And many of the points you raise are my issue with the petition as presented and promoted.

I mentioned elsewhere that certain groups have an agenda and they operate here. Now that's not to say the original authors of the petition have ulterior motives......now I don't know them personally but from their posts I have good reason to believe they just want to bring about improvements to the JV without causing issues or disenfranchising anybody. Also, I'm sure most petitioners also are just looking for a better performing footy team and have no agendas. But ther are other groups who may not be as genuine, and they may have ulterior motives no doubt. They are doing their best here and through certain media channels to promote dissent and disharmony..........hoping even to cause deststabilisation with the club and yes even as you say financial problems stemming from bad press emanating from this petition leading to fan and sponsor loss etc from which they can then capitalise.

I wish this not to be the case so I'm against this petition. For all the teams current issues the club has a stable administration and is operating well financially. Their are problems with certain aspects of our coaching and playing roster......but the club has moved forward there with some good recruits and they are in the market for more. Also, I like what David Furner brings on staff.

But there is a way to go and it almost feels as if this could possibly destabilise the club before good progress is made......perhaps for some that's maybe the intention.

Some talk of a Wests v Balmain thing.

For me the petition isn't about that but if it destabilises the HB group which was designed by the authors to accommodate everyone and prevent this type of thing from happening it will become a Magpies/Balmain thing. Many on here post that they want the dissolution of the HB group ........nearly all are from the Balmain side of theJV. Many run multiple accounts here as you would've noticed pushing for administration changes which is dubious in itself. Funnily enough they largely dissapeared after a couple of wins. Don't recall these people acting with much vigor prior to the the unfortunate decent into oblivion of Balmain Leagues and with it the BRLFC.

Even if a petition was proposed strictly regarding football operations I would be opposed following the Brian Smith experience. We lost an average coach for a worse one (Potter/JT) and even worse it lead to loosing a coach we were grooming to be a long term successor... Todd Payten.

My views alone.

 

[balmain boy]

Yes, a good post.

And many of the points you raise are my issue with the petition as presented and promoted.

I mentioned elsewhere that certain groups have an agenda and they operate here. Now that's not to say the original authors of the petition have ulterior motives......now I don't know them personally but from their posts I have good reason to believe they just want to bring about improvements to the JV without causing issues or disenfranchising anybody. Also, I'm sure most petitioners also are just looking for a better performing footy team and have no agendas. But ther are other groups who may not be as genuine, and they may have ulterior motives no doubt. They are doing their best here and through certain media channels to promote dissent and disharmony..........hoping even to cause deststabilisation with the club and yes even as you say financial problems stemming from bad press emanating from this petition leading to fan and sponsor loss etc from which they can then capitalise.

I wish this not to be the case so I'm against this petition. For all the teams current issues the club has a stable administration and is operating well financially. Their are problems with certain aspects of our coaching and playing roster......but the club has moved forward there with some good recruits and they are in the market for more. Also, I like what David Furner brings on staff.

But there is a way to go and it almost feels as if this could possibly destabilise the club before good progress is made......perhaps for some that's maybe the intention.

Some talk of a Wests v Balmain thing.

For me the petition isn't about that but if it destabilises the HB group which was designed by the authors to accommodate everyone and prevent this type of thing from happening it will become a Magpies/Balmain thing. Many on here post that they want the dissolution of the HB group ........nearly all are from the Balmain side of theJV. Many run multiple accounts here as you would've noticed pushing for administration changes which is dubious in itself. Funni,y enough they largely dissapeared after a couple of wins. Don't recall these people acting with much vigor prior to the the unfortunate decent into oblivion of Balmain Leagues and with it the BRLFC.

Even if a petition was proposed strictly regarding football operations I would be opposed following the Brian Smith experience. We lost an average coach for a worse one (Potter/JT) and even worse it lead to loosing a coach we were grooming to be a long term successor... Todd Payten.

My views alone.

You embrace losing. That's your choice. Some people see incompetence, failure and embarrassment as something to be avoided. Others, like you, celebrate it. You're happy for change so long as no one's feelings get hurt?

The only way forward is to create anarchy. We currently have no say and the same incompetent morons are allowed to destroy our club. Being patient, quiet and asking politely for change will achieve nothing. The entire club is rotten to the core. Everyone involved in rugby league sees this. We've been a laughing stock for a decade.
There is no plan to cause financial distress to the club, only as a means of last resort. We have no voice, if other options don't work then the only option left is financial, but that's a last resort. Massacring the structure and identities of our board will be a good thing. They think they operate in some Trumpian utopia, where they don't and need to be held accountable for the actions. They are terrible at their jobs and deserve to be humiliated and sacked.
It will happen...

And no, i'm not involved in the petition (which - the review- is one just one step in fixing the culture at the club)

 

[Magpie_Magic]

You embrace losing. That's your choice. Some people see incompetence, failure and embarrassment as something to be avoided. Others, like you, celebrate it. You're happy for change so long as no one's feelings get hurt?

The only way forward is to create anarchy. We currently have no say and the same incompetent morons are allowed to destroy our club. Being patient, quiet and asking politely for change will achieve nothing. The entire club is rotten to the core. Everyone involved in rugby league sees this. We've been a laughing stock for a decade.
There is no plan to cause financial distress to the club, only as a means of last resort. We have no voice, if other options don't work then the only option left is financial, but that's a last resort. Massacring the structure and identities of our board will be a good thing. They think they operate in some Trumpian utopia, where they don't and need to be held accountable for the actions. They are terrible at their jobs and deserve to be humiliated and sacked.
It will happen...

And no, i'm not involved in the petition (which - the review- is one just one step in fixing the culture at the club)

Thanks for clarifying your position.

What I thought.

 

[crazycat]

McDonnell wasn't sacked, he decided to leave.

What decisions were made by the board that override the personal authority of the coach? What is the personal authority of the coach? What are the limits of his authority?

You say since Fulton joined we've had a record loss and lost key players. And what about before Fulton joined, what about the 7 straight losses to start 2023 (or 12 straight including 2022)? What about the 72-6 loss to Roosters and 56-10 loss to Raiders at the end of 2022?

Did something change since Scott Fulton arrived? Or are Tigers just continuing a very bad run of form that has a long precedent from several previous seasons?

You may as well stop after your first few words "speculation is all you have". On that we can agree.

Bingo

Nothing on field at the moment I can put on Scott Fulton.
I actually kinda think McDonnell did well. He missed Moses but I reckon we were never in the running.

If we miss Latu Fainu, I will hold Scott on that. Likewise I expect a halfback solution soon, probably not a good one but surely someone wants to get some first grade experience.

 

[Magpie_Magic]

I don't think anarchy is the right choice of words. Bringing in an external party with expertise we don't have in the building can only be a good thing. It's a naive organisation that is performing poorly and thinks they have all the answers. All organisations should seek fresh ideas, particularly when there are clear shortcomings.

I rest my case. 😉

 

[balmain boy]

I don't think anarchy is the right choice of words. Bringing in an external party with expertise we don't have in the building can only be a good thing. It's a naive organisation that is performing poorly and thinks they have all the answers. All organisations should seek fresh ideas, particularly when there are clear shortcomings.

Again the external review is only one small part of the change that needs to happen. The review process could take 6 months+, we don't have that long. The sooner almost everyone involved in our senior management is shown the door the better, and only then can our rebuild start taking place. We need to stop the rot! Otherwise it will keep festering away from within.
Interim replacements can't possibly do a worse job than those currently in these positions. Also note that an affiliation with either Wests or Balmain is not required, and ideally the board would be made up entirely of footy people with no affiliation to either of the old clubs.
Anarchy may be a strong word, but it's a strong way to send a message too. The current board will not leave of their own choosing, even a review may not be enough for them to pack their bags. Actively creating change is what's required. Maybe there are more optimal words, i'd need another coffee this arvo to get to those though

 

[balmain boy]

I'd rather they take their time and do a proper review. We aren't winning in 2024 with the mooted halves anyway.

Of course they should do a proper and extensive review. However there's never a bad time to remove dead wood. On or off the field, if someone is bad for the culture of the organisation they need to be shown the door. You don't need to wait for validation in order to do so.

We are such a reactive club. And that's why we fail, tolerate, accept and even expect failure. No one at the club is ever proactive, on anything. That will change

 

[twentyforty]

A head coach would be able to pick their assistants yes, possibly their physios too if they have a strong preference. But still all staff signings would go through the GM of football/CEO and be approved as meeting the club's vision and standards.

Yes, and that's the way it should be, with the GM or CEO having the right of final approval. If a coach is living or dying on the results, then he should be able to get the people he wants to fill positions, including on field positions. But this can only happen where the GM or CEO has faith in the coach.
Our halfback stocks are a case in point. Clubs on average have 4 halves and on average pay them 16.5% of the cap, which is roughly $1.9m and we could only find $550k for a half wanted by both Sheens and Marshall?

 

[Halbrowne61]

Now just being cheeky, I notice Grub has retired from the Dogs.
We wouldn’t, would we ?
Maybe Reynolds/Madden in the halves.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

 

[Tom Shines]

Ironic, we could get the same big four as last time we had a war chest. How retired are Packer and Matulino? Grubby and Moses are available...

I think Chris McQueen neck injury is fine now.. no need for a medical of course.. just like the last time he signed here

 

[Halbrowne61]

I think Chris McQueen neck injury is fine now.. no need for a medical of course.. just like the last time he signed here

See, our problem was we went too soon.
All healthy and available now !! 🤣

 

[watersider]

This isn't a rhetorical question, but just curious if there's actually anyone who still believes in our chairman and CEO?

People used to defend Pascoe on idea of him bringing financial stability. Haven't seen much of those arguments this year, but maybe people believe this still?

He's onto his 4th coach now, yeah? And no idea how many recruitment people he's had, but at least three in the last year or so.

At some point he'd need to be held responsible, yeah?

This is nothing new but I'm particularly disappointed that there's absolutely nothing to be able to point to in terms of football department direction. I believe they've both proven themselves to have no idea what a football department should be doing and how it should look, given they're prepared to completely switch directions based on whoever they talk to. Witness their employment of Hartigan and then Sheens and the Sheens approach and their almost immediate switch to Fulton after things turn sour. I'm not advocating any of them, but I'd say none of them were helped by LeePascoe.

It must be hard as a football person trying to turn the club around have to explain and justify things to people who don't know and who seem very impatient and thin skinned with little to no sense of loyalty, except to themselves.

I'd like our next ceo and chairman to have a strong belief in their approach and stick to it. That probably means they need to be footballing people, rather than just being good at business.

 

[Halbrowne61]

This isn't a rhetorical question, but just curious if there's actually anyone who still believes in our chairman and CEO?

People used to defend Pascoe on idea of him bringing financial stability. Haven't seen much of those arguments this year, but maybe people believe this still?

He's onto his 4th coach now, yeah? And no idea how many recruitment people he's had, but at least three in the last year or so.

At some point he'd need to be held responsible, yeah?

This is nothing new but I'm particularly disappointed that there's absolutely nothing to be able to point to in terms of football department direction. I believe they've both proven themselves to have no idea what a football department should be doing and how it should look, given they're prepared to completely switch directions based on whoever they talk to. Witness their employment of Hartigan and then Sheens and the Sheens approach and their almost immediate switch to Fulton after things turn sour. I'm not advocating any of them, but I'd say none of them were helped by LeePascoe.

It must be hard as a football person trying to turn the club around have to explain and justify things to people who don't know and who seem very impatient and thin skinned with little to no sense of loyalty, except to themselves.

I'd like our next ceo and chairman to have a strong belief in their approach and stick to it. That probably means they need to be footballing people, rather than just being good at business.

It’s interesting if you read that article in the SMH about Cleary that it says whilst Pascoe has made some good decisions off the field, re sponsorships, CoE and increased membership, “ ultimately he will be judged on what happens on the field “.
And that was 2017, amazing eh ……

 

[BalmainJnr]

It’s interesting if you read that article in the SMH about Cleary that it says whilst Pascoe has made some good decisions off the field, re sponsorships, CoE and increased membership, “ ultimately he will be judged on what happens on the field “.
And that was 2017, amazing eh ……

Got himself a free pass when Ivan was smart enough to leave.
I am curious how he is given a free pass now?

 

[Halbrowne61]

Got himself a free pass when Ivan was smart enough to leave.
I am curious how he is given a free pass now?

The $64 question ? Can only assume his KPIs are slanted more away from on field results ?

 

[matchball]

All clubs get these types in their clubs. It's just our turn.
Look how long fans were calling out Oust Doust at the Dragons.
Bulldogs and Manly have power struggles at board level.

I guess it's all self preservation mode at Concord. All the board don't want lose the perks. It's a dead easy job.