Referendum 2023

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hugh1954 said:
Crazy talked himself into a circle and finally confirmed a NO vote ... Thanks crazy
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Kamahl was in a similar position on the voice, starting off as a minimally informed no, then moving to a more informed yes, then finally a much more informed no.
He made those blinkered project hosts look like an amateurs as they made up stuff to try discrediting him. Interestingly he was a folk hero when ye was a yes. 😂
Theres no shame in that crazy.
 
twentyforty said:
Kamahl was in a similar position on the voice, starting off as a minimally informed no, then moving to a more informed yes, then finally a much more informed no.
He made those blinkered project hosts look like an amateurs as they made up stuff to try discrediting him. Interestingly he was a folk hero when ye was a yes. 😂
Theres no shame in that crazy.
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blinkered

Nicest thing I've ever heard any of those vile swamp creatures on the activist programme, the project, referred to as.
 
TillLindemann said:
I love such comments, truth for the sake of truth.
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It's not the truth. It's completely delusional as well as defeatist.

Basically every single person out there including you can improve your life and it's not societies fault however maybe society can help a little.

A good personal example is that I've always been a conehead. Now I get medical marijuana and it's legal. This is awesome. Everyone wins as well. My local chemist loves me. You probably win as well because there is more tax dollars going to the government coffers.

Indigenous people have outcomes that are significantly worse than the average/median Australian. I don't believe we can fix that but maybe we can provide some support.
 
earl said:
It's not the truth. It's completely delusional as well as defeatist.

Basically every single person out there including you can improve your life and it's not societies fault however maybe society can help a little.
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So why the Voice?
earl said:
A good personal example is that I've always been a conehead. Now I get medical marijuana and it's legal. This is awesome. Everyone wins as well. My local chemist loves me. You probably win as well because there is more tax dollars going to the government coffers.
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Colour me shocked!!
 
earl said:
It's not the truth. It's completely delusional as well as defeatist.

Basically every single person out there including you can improve your life and it's not societies fault however maybe society can help a little.

A good personal example is that I've always been a conehead. Now I get medical marijuana and it's legal. This is awesome. Everyone wins as well. My local chemist loves me. You probably win as well because there is more tax dollars going to the government coffers.

Indigenous people have outcomes that are significantly worse than the average/median Australian. I don't believe we can fix that but maybe we can provide some support.
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The bold part should be a mandatory requirement for any post earl puts on this forum.

And no, we don't win because your idiotic virtual signalling posts kill brains cells. Stick to posting what you know about which is being the dunce of any discussion you engage in.
 
earl said:
It's not the truth. It's completely delusional as well as defeatist.

Basically every single person out there including you can improve your life and it's not societies fault however maybe society can help a little.

A good personal example is that I've always been a conehead. Now I get medical marijuana and it's legal. This is awesome. Everyone wins as well. My local chemist loves me. You probably win as well because there is more tax dollars going to the government coffers.

Indigenous people have outcomes that are significantly worse than the average/median Australian. I don't believe we can fix that but maybe we can provide some support.
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Earl if people are trying to help lift Aborignals, then why are they always eluding to their problems, their disadvantages? It’s pygmalion effect does nothing to help the situation.

Ive got an idea that could speed up the process of closing the gap.
Let’s call it ‘partial assimilation,’ similar to what we currently have, but involves a redistribution of funding to accelerate us toward success of outcomes.
We already have proof that it works, with the city and inner regional Aboriginal people as examples. They share a lot in common, higher education, better health outcomes, high percentage in professional careers.
We simply direct funding into industry, housing, and infrastructure development for regional areas. This gives people a choice. Naturally we’ll see increased numbers move from regional areas into cities. This happens already, just not on the level it needs to be due to politics.
We also need to be sensitive to those who want to live in remote communities to ensure the continuity of cultural beliefs, by improving services and infrastructure, and by treating law breakers in the same way. An Aboriginal man was recently sentenced to 20 years behind bars. When he is released he will be speared in the groin 5 times and possibly hit up the back of the head with a number 7, while he staggers off. We need to find a way to break this cycle.
 
twentyforty said:
Earl if people are trying to help lift Aborignals, then why are they always eluding to their problems, their disadvantages? It’s pygmalion effect does nothing to help the situation.

Ive got an idea that could speed up the process of closing the gap.
Let’s call it ‘partial assimilation,’ similar to what we currently have, but involves a redistribution of funding to accelerate us toward success of outcomes.
We already have proof that it works, with the city and inner regional Aboriginal people as examples. They share a lot in common, higher education, better health outcomes, high percentage in professional careers.
We simply direct funding into industry, housing, and infrastructure development for regional areas. This gives people a choice. Naturally we’ll see increased numbers move from regional areas into cities. This happens already, just not on the level it needs to be due to politics.
We also need to be sensitive to those who want to live in remote communities to ensure the continuity of cultural beliefs, by improving services and infrastructure, and by treating law breakers in the same way. An Aboriginal man was recently sentenced to 20 years behind bars. When he is released he will be speared in the groin 5 times and possibly hit up the back of the head with a number 7, while he staggers off. We need to find a way to break this cycle.
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The people who speared and bludgeoned him get another 20 years.

Education is the key. By law, kids are required to attend school. This law should be applied to ALL kids. If their parents will not ensure this then other means should be applied.
 
twentyforty said:
Earl if people are trying to help lift Aborignals, then why are they always eluding to their problems, their disadvantages? It’s pygmalion effect does nothing to help the situation.
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Firstly I had to look up the word Pygmalion. It's a good word.

I sort of agree with this. I got to give my life philosophy first. I don't take handouts and I live frugally. I also take care of my health. I'm not a whiner about me having it tough and I always think people have to learn to stand on their own two feet.

I also am sick to death of people complaining about how hard they have it. I see weakness everywhere. How many no voters are complaining how tough they have it. I have rich relatives and I hear them whining. It drives me batty.

We have 3 kids. My oldest two have been told that they pay for everything but they get free board. My youngest will be in the same position. They were brats at one point (the youngest is perfect) but they are so much better now. They aren't asking us for handouts.

I tell you my take on Aborigines. Whenever I'm discussing the topic I always state give them everything they want but at some point someone has to state that it's up to you to get yourself ahead.

twentyforty said:
Ive got an idea that could speed up the process of closing the gap.
Let’s call it ‘partial assimilation,’ similar to what we currently have, but involves a redistribution of funding to accelerate us toward success of outcomes.
We already have proof that it works, with the city and inner regional Aboriginal people as examples. They share a lot in common, higher education, better health outcomes, high percentage in professional careers.
We simply direct funding into industry, housing, and infrastructure development for regional areas. This gives people a choice. Naturally we’ll see increased numbers move from regional areas into cities. This happens already, just not on the level it needs to be due to politics.
Click to expand...

It's not a bad idea and I sort of agree. I think it's not about hand-outs but about providing better facilities.

The reason I'm not a huge fan is that I think the world is in trouble. Climate change if it continues will be horrendous. I am not some mad greenie and I was a climate skeptic for years. I can still point out flaws in climate science.

At the same time I believe if temperatures increase to say 3 degree we are going to be screwed. I mean people living in the equator will not be able to live there. It'd be horrific. Most of the climate change activists now are massively concerned about an inevitable (I don't know if this is true) 2 degree warming.

So my concern with this is it's massive spend when we should have more people living like they do in Singapore. Less cars. Much more intense housing. Better facilities.

So if we can do what you state and make regional areas work better in a more modern way great. I think though I'd rather spend more money to impact more people and that requires more spending in the cities.

twentyforty said:
We also need to be sensitive to those who want to live in remote communities to ensure the continuity of cultural beliefs, by improving services and infrastructure, and by treating law breakers in the same way. An Aboriginal man was recently sentenced to 20 years behind bars. When he is released he will be speared in the groin 5 times and possibly hit up the back of the head with a number 7, while he staggers off. We need to find a way to break this cycle.
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There are so many issues. I'll give an example. At my job I wasn't forced but they put out a video on Indigenous culture. It was fascinating. This young guy got a job. His family and it's not just mum and dad. They consider lots of people uncles and aunties. All of his family which includes people probably not related wanted a piece of his pay. So he is going to work and not earning anything. His manager got him to take out a car loan and pay that off first and then give his money away.

These types of issues might not be specific to Indigenous people but it's not the way I was bought up where mummy and daddy pay for private schools and leave you a massive inheritance.

I'll tell you what I hate about discussing these issues. There isn't some simple fix. It's a massively complex issue that is really screwed up.

I don't have answers. I'm still voting yes but it's such a trivial change to me and it costs me nothing. I'm just trying to be supportive and I like the idea of putting more onus onto Indigenous people.
 
earl said:
Firstly I had to look up the word Pygmalion. It's a good word.

I sort of agree with this. I got to give my life philosophy first. I don't take handouts and I live frugally. I also take care of my health. I'm not a whiner about me having it tough and I always think people have to learn to stand on their own two feet.

I also am sick to death of people complaining about how hard they have it. I see weakness everywhere. How many no voters are complaining how tough they have it. I have rich relatives and I hear them whining. It drives me batty.

We have 3 kids. My oldest two have been told that they pay for everything but they get free board. My youngest will be in the same position. They were brats at one point (the youngest is perfect) but they are so much better now. They aren't asking us for handouts.

I tell you my take on Aborigines. Whenever I'm discussing the topic I always state give them everything they want but at some point someone has to state that it's up to you to get yourself ahead.



It's not a bad idea and I sort of agree. I think it's not about hand-outs but about providing better facilities.

The reason I'm not a huge fan is that I think the world is in trouble. Climate change if it continues will be horrendous. I am not some mad greenie and I was a climate skeptic for years. I can still point out flaws in climate science.

At the same time I believe if temperatures increase to say 3 degree we are going to be screwed. I mean people living in the equator will not be able to live there. It'd be horrific. Most of the climate change activists now are massively concerned about an inevitable (I don't know if this is true) 2 degree warming.

So my concern with this is it's massive spend when we should have more people living like they do in Singapore. Less cars. Much more intense housing. Better facilities.

So if we can do what you state and make regional areas work better in a more modern way great. I think though I'd rather spend more money to impact more people and that requires more spending in the cities.



There are so many issues. I'll give an example. At my job I wasn't forced but they put out a video on Indigenous culture. It was fascinating. This young guy got a job. His family and it's not just mum and dad. They consider lots of people uncles and aunties. All of his family which includes people probably not related wanted a piece of his pay. So he is going to work and not earning anything. His manager got him to take out a car loan and pay that off first and then give his money away.

These types of issues might not be specific to Indigenous people but it's not the way I was bought up where mummy and daddy pay for private schools and leave you a massive inheritance.

I'll tell you what I hate about discussing these issues. There isn't some simple fix. It's a massively complex issue that is really screwed up.

I don't have answers. I'm still voting yes but it's such a trivial change to me and it costs me nothing. I'm just trying to be supportive and I like the idea of putting more onus onto Indigenous people.
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I didn’t expect an outpouring of self disclosure, it’s about improving the life of Aboriginals. We do need to understand the culture better. We also need to get a balanced view of the situation which means listening to both sides of the argument.
 
crazycat said:
That's how voting works Misty.

The voice means that Aboriginal representatives, the people who say "this is what's happening in Aboriginal communities" are answerable at election time. If they do a crap job, they get voted out.

At the moment, government "advisory" committees are often picked by the government to tell the government what it wants.

Using a Wests Tigers Analogy:

"yes": A member voted voice would raise a stack of issues and ways to improve our club.

"no": A WT board appointed advisor would say "Lee Hagipantelis, YOU DID GREAT in 2023!".
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Will it be managed by the same Electoral Commission? Or will the count be allowed only for those who identify as Aboriginal?
 
twentyforty said:
I didn’t expect an outpouring of self disclosure, it’s about improving the life of Aboriginals. We do need to understand the culture better. We also need to get a balanced view of the situation which means listening to both sides of the argument.
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It all comes down to your perspective though. I would like society to help people but there is only so much you can do.

There also isn't two sides of the argument. If you are viewing the situation that simplistically I don't think you've gotten it. Plus giving a bunch of money to regional Australia for instance means less money for other causes.
 
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