2023 Israel–Hamas war

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mikey said:
We obviously have different takes on if there is only one or more aggressors in this. No point in either of us going around in circles if we aren't going change the other's point of view.
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Agree we wont change each others point of view, nor do I want to. I can see your POV and dont disagree with it. The situation in Gaza is terrible, of course Israel is contributing to it. Israel is not blameless. Just as you are correctly making the point that there is blood on both sides hands and both are aggressors, I am also making the point that the blockade and Israels treatment of Gaza is not because Israel is simply evil. Israel have many real reasons to restrict Gaza to protect its own territory and people as demonstrated horrifically on the weekend.

My point in this thread isnt that Israel are good guys and Hamas the bad guys although Hamas are evil scum. My point is that there is no moral equivalence, no whataboutism that justifies what Hamas did last weekend. Nothing and to be completely honest, I actually find it sickening when people justify what happened last weekend.
 
I reckon this is about the best response I've heard.

Australian Greens Statement on the Situation in Palestine and Israel | Australian Greens

Statement from Senator Jordon Steele-John, Greens Spokesperson for Foreign Affairs: "The Greens reject and condemn all forms of violence, especially against civilians. There must be an immediate ceasefire between the State of Israel and Hamas.
greens.org.au greens.org.au

"The Greens reject and condemn all forms of violence, especially against civilians. There must be an immediate ceasefire between the State of Israel and Hamas.


"The right to resist occupation must be in accordance with international law. The premeditated targeting of civilians by Hamas violates these laws. The bombing of Palestinian civilians in response by the State of Israel violates these laws.


"The context of this escalating conflict cannot be ignored. For there to be peace there must be an end to the State of Israel's illegal occupation of the Palestinian territories.


"This war will bring pain and grief to so many. All perpetrators must be held accountable for their actions in accordance with international law.


"Following a ceasefire, there must be a redoubling of efforts to end the occupation and establish a just and lasting peace."
 
pawsandclaws1 said:
Google the history of Menachem Begin, the first PM of Israel and his colourful history as leader of the Irgun. Read how the New York times described the Irgun.
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I have stated Israel are not the good guys as they are painted.
The Irgun were terrorists. They attacked the British as well as Palestinians.
It was also dismantled 75 years ago.
We are talking about this current conflict and the sub-human atrocities committed last Saturday in Israel by Hamas. These massacres should not be excused. Almost everything that happened on Saturday was a war crime.
 
earl said:
"Following a ceasefire, there must be a redoubling of efforts to end the occupation and establish a just and lasting peace."
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Let me quote you from the Charter of the Government of Gaza....

The preamble of the Charter says....
"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it"

Article 7 says.....'The Day of Judgment will not come about until Moslems fight Jews and kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the rocks and trees will cry out: 'O Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him.'

Article 13 says...."[Peace] initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement... Those conferences are no more than
a means to appoint the infidels as arbitrators in the lands of Islam... There is no solution for the Palestinian problem except by Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are but a waste of time, an exercise in futility.'

Article 15 says...."The day the enemies usurp part of Moslem land, Jihad becomes the individual duty of every Moslem. In the face of the Jews' usurpation, it is compulsory that the banner of Jihad be raised.'

Good luck negotiating with that. Palestinians are doomed whilst Hamas exists.
 
Mistymuzzle said:
Let me quote you from the Charter of the Government of Gaza....

The preamble of the Charter says....
"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it"

Article 7 says.....'The Day of Judgment will not come about until Moslems fight Jews and kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the rocks and trees will cry out: 'O Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him.'

Article 13 says...."[Peace] initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement... Those conferences are no more than
a means to appoint the infidels as arbitrators in the lands of Islam... There is no solution for the Palestinian problem except by Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are but a waste of time, an exercise in futility.'

Article 15 says...."The day the enemies usurp part of Moslem land, Jihad becomes the individual duty of every Moslem. In the face of the Jews' usurpation, it is compulsory that the banner of Jihad be raised.'

Good luck negotiating with that. Palestinians are doomed whilst Hamas exists.
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They were doomed as of last Saturday.
 
Tucker said:
I have stated Israel are not the good guys as they are painted.
The Irgun were terrorists. They attacked the British as well as Palestinians.
It was also dismantled 75 years ago.
We are talking about this current conflict and the sub-human atrocities committed last Saturday in Israel by Hamas. These massacres should not be excused. Almost everything that happened on Saturday was a war crime.
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No one is excusing the inexcusable and hopefully those responsible in Hamas will be brought to justice.
 
pawsandclaws1 said:
Mate, the picture of that young Israeli woman in the SMH who went to the concert and has subsequently been found dead bites hard. You wonder how some of these cowards shooting young women can look at themselves in the mirror.
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Ive said it before in this thread and I will again here. Everyone should be forced to look at what they did. That picture of that girl is the least of it.

Get past the fact that Shapiro is a conservative orthodox Jew (his biases are obvious and upfront), the footage he is showing was uploaded by Hamas, not Israel. From 10:47
 
pawsandclaws1 said:
Mate, the picture of that young Israeli woman in the SMH who went to the concert and has subsequently been found dead bites hard. You wonder how some of these cowards shooting young women can look at themselves in the mirror.
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I wonder how the people that celebrated those actions over the weekend across other countries can do the same.

Same mindset. It's extremely concerning that, for all intent & purpose, 'innocent' citizens of other countries can gather under the banner of peace rallies & chant anti-Jew/ death-to-Jews slogans while laughing & showing video of the atrosities taking place.

One has to wonder what their intent might well be.
 
trentrunciman said:
I clicked it but stopped watching after 20 seconds…

You’re welcome to write my IR research essay that’s due in two weeks bro…can’t cite YouTube but…
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i didnt post the video as any reference on any basis for political or historical aspects and as I pointed out up front, its a Ben Shapiro video so his biases are up front. I posted it because everyone should be forced to watch the Hamas videos that they uploaded before any moral equivalences are claimed.
 
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