2023 Israel–Hamas war

[Mistymuzzle]

Only 32% of Jewish Israelis support a two-state solution with Palestine.

Now....whilst the Palestinians are governed by a terrorist group that is determine to eradicate the Jewish state. Im amazed that 32% support it.

In 2000, 2007 and 2010 Israeli Prime Ministers offered Palestinians a two state solution that they only had to accept. In 2000 they were offered 95% of the west bank and 100% of Gaza. Yasser Arafat said no. 2007 & 2010, Hamas were in power.

Safe to say they will not be offered a two state solution by Israel for a very long time and never whilst Hamas exists/has power.

 

[Mistymuzzle]

Most Palestinians in Gaza lived in Israel proper . Gaza is basically a giant refugee camp.

Palestinians are refugees from all over the Middle East, not just Israel. Many were forced out of Egypt and Syria.

The water is now cut to 1. 8 million in Gaza.

They will become refugees and head for Egypt.

Egypt will not let them in.

 

[Magpie_Magic]

Palestinians are refugees from all over the Middle East, not just Israel. Many were forced out of Egypt and Syria.



Egypt will not let them in.

People cannot live without water long.

1.8 million civilians.

I heard safe passage ito Egypt is being organised


The end of a two state solution.

Also probably the end of the normalisation of Saudi- Israeli ties recognition.

 

[Mistymuzzle]

People cannot live without water long.

1.8 million civilians.

Agreed...its horrific.

You might suggest that the government of an area might consider the only source of their water prior to launching a massive attack targeting civilians.

I heard safe passage ito Egypt is being organised

you might be right. I hope so.

Israeli military revises call on Gazans to flee to Egypt

The Israeli military revised on Tuesday a recommendation by one of its spokespeople that Palestinians fleeing its air strikes in the Gaza Strip head to Egypt, saying in a follow-up statement that the main crossing on that border was currently closed.

www.reuters.com

No recognition, no rights: Palestinians in Egypt

Palestinians in Egypt are neither recognised as refugees nor citizens, 75 years after the first refugees arrived after the Nakba, and Egypt's hostile treatment of its Palestinians today contrasts painfully with its warm welcome in the 1950s.

www.newarab.com

The end of a two state solution.

Thanks to Hamas. The Palestinians have literally shot themselves in the foot and then the head.

 

[Tucker]

There is no what aboutism mate they’re both evil & both as bad as each other. Israel are not the good guys here.

They are far better than Hamas and any other militant Muslim terrorists.

 

[Tucker]

People should watch this. Yes it is put together and commented on by Ben Shapiro who is a conservative, orthodox jew so his partiality and bias is known up front, but this is a compilation of videos uploaded by Hamas. It is not Israeli propoganda, it is palestinian self promotion.

Everyone who is arguing moral equivalence, whataboutism should be forced to watch this video and not look away. Hamas video starts at 10:50

It is horrible stuff.
Similar to ISIS/ISIL and all other fundamentalist trash that kills like this.
These individuals aren’t human and if their god truly existed, surely this could not please it.

 

[Merlot]

sure both sides think their fighting for justice

 

[WestsEffTheRest]

They are far better than Hamas and any other militant Muslim terrorists.

There is no better in this war

 

[Mistymuzzle]

There is no better in this war

Watch the video........there is no moral equivalence.

 

[Tucker]

There is no better in this war

Yes there is.
One group went after as many civilians …especially vulnerable ones like the aged and children as possible, showing them zero mercy.
The other gave civilians a warning to leave before attacking.
One group are cowards who never take on armed forces.
The other mobilised a force to take them on and are systematically hunting them like the rats they are.

 

[Moh]

People should watch this. Yes it is put together and commented on by Ben Shapiro who is a conservative, orthodox jew so his partiality and bias is known up front, but this is a compilation of videos uploaded by Hamas. It is not Israeli propoganda, it is palestinian self promotion.

I'm really not that well educated on the history of all this, but Hamas is not Palestine.

Hamas' inhumane actions and videos are not Palestinian promotion.

 

[Moh]

Yes there is.
One group went after as many civilians …especially vulnerable ones like the aged and children as possible, showing them zero mercy.
The other gave civilians a warning to leave before attacking.
One group are cowards who never take on armed forces.
The other mobilised a force to take them on and are systematically hunting them like the rats they are.

One of them is a terrorist organisation. The other is a government.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

It is horrible stuff.
Similar to ISIS/ISIL and all other fundamentalist trash that kills like this.
These individuals aren’t human and if their god truly existed, surely this could not please it.

Google the history of Menachem Begin, the first PM of Israel and his colourful history as leader of the Irgun. Read how the New York times described the Irgun.

 

[Mistymuzzle]

I'm really not that well educated on the history of all this, but Hamas is not Palestine.

Hamas' inhumane actions and videos are not Palestinian promotion.

Hamas is the government, elected by the Palestinian people, representing the Palestinian people of Gaza.

 

[Mistymuzzle]

One of them is a terrorist organisation. The other is a government.

One of them is a terrorist organisation and the government of Gaza, the other is the government of Israel.

 

[tony soprano]

IMO there are a couple of reasons.

Firstly, there are a lot of displaced palestinians and arabs worldwide with probable legitimate complaints about the treatment of Palestinians.

Secondly, the western world has been fed a cartoon version of the Israeli/Palestinian Conflict which is broken along ideological lines and the far left are provided with a dumbed down simple cartoon version that Israel/Jews/Zion bad and poor oppressed Palestinians are innocent victims, so when last weekends atrocities unfold that dont match the cartoon version of whats going on, a lot of people in western world instinctively react along ideological lines and instinctively react with "whataboutisms" and deflections of previous injustices.

There is no moral equivalence.

The left have really threw me here.

Left values and Palestinians Arab culture just doesn't make sense..

 

[mikey]

There is no moral equivalence to the barbarism of last weekend.

you are of course aware that Israel completely withdrew from Gaza in 2005? There isnt a single soldier, policeman or Israeli official in Gaza for 18 years and Israel has been providing water, electricity and gas free of charge to Gaza up until this weekend? you know all of that of course?

Whilst Hamas keep their headquarters under a Hospital and military installations in Mosques, innocent Palestinian civilians will continue to be slaughtered in the days ahead and everyone of them, Israeli and Palestinian will be blood on Hamas hands.


Israeli's "tough guy attitude" might have something to do with the fact that they are surrounded by Hamas to the south, Hezbollah to the north, Syria to the East, all funded by Iran and the stated objective of all of these state actors is to obliterate Israel from the map. Not only is it their stated objective, sporadically they act to prove they mean it like last weekend. Im not sure what people suggest Israel do?

I'm not addressing every single response you made; however, some small quotes from Wikipedia:

Gaza Strip - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The majority of Palestinians in the Gaza Strip, which contains eight refugee camps, are descendants of refugees who fled or were expelled from the area that became Israel after the 1948 Arab-Israeli War.

(There was a need to create a Jewish state after centuries of atrocities against them in Europe and other parts of the world. This came at a huge cost to other groups of people - a cost which still continues today. Israel and other Western states played and continue to play a huge part in this.)

Gaza suffers from shortages of water, electricity and medicines. The United Nations, as well as at least 19 human rights organizations, have urged Israel to lift its siege on Gaza, while a report by UNCTAD, prepared for the UN General Assembly and released on 25 November 2020, said that Gaza's economy was on the verge of collapse and that it was essential to lift the blockade.

The United Nations, international human rights organisations, and the majority of governments and legal commentators still consider the territory to be occupied by Israel despite the 2005 Israeli disengagement from Gaza. Israel maintains direct external control over Gaza and indirect control over life within Gaza:

• Israel controls Gaza's air and maritime space and six of Gaza's seven land crossings
• Israel reserves the right to enter Gaza at will with its military and maintains a no-go buffer zone within the Gaza territory
• Gaza is dependent on Israel for its water, electricity, telecommunications, and other utilities

(Yes, Israel on the face of it may have withdrawn and 'supply' essentials to the Gaza Strip but look at how they do it and what it actually means in reality in terms of how people are forced to live.)

My point in what I am saying is this is not a one-way street as some would try to have us believe, I am not supportive of any group or person that condones or carries out acts of violence against innocents. Both Hamas and Israel have a lot to answer for in this sad and sorry state of affairs..

 

[Mistymuzzle]

I'm not addressing every single response you made; however, some small quotes from Wikipedia:

Gaza Strip - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The majority of Palestinians in the Gaza Strip, which contains eight refugee camps, are descendants of refugees who fled or were expelled from the area that became Israel after the 1948 Arab-Israeli War.

(There was a need to create a Jewish state after centuries of atrocities against them in Europe and other parts of the world. This came at a huge cost to other groups of people - a cost which still continues today. Israel and other Western states played and continue to play a huge part in this.)

Gaza suffers from shortages of water, electricity and medicines. The United Nations, as well as at least 19 human rights organizations, have urged Israel to lift its siege on Gaza, while a report by UNCTAD, prepared for the UN General Assembly and released on 25 November 2020, said that Gaza's economy was on the verge of collapse and that it was essential to lift the blockade.

The United Nations, international human rights organisations, and the majority of governments and legal commentators still consider the territory to be occupied by Israel despite the 2005 Israeli disengagement from Gaza. Israel maintains direct external control over Gaza and indirect control over life within Gaza:

• Israel controls Gaza's air and maritime space and six of Gaza's seven land crossings
• Israel reserves the right to enter Gaza at will with its military and maintains a no-go buffer zone within the Gaza territory
• Gaza is dependent on Israel for its water, electricity, telecommunications, and other utilities

(Yes, Israel on the face of it may have withdrawn and 'supply' essentials to the Gaza Strip but look at how they do it and what it actually means in reality in terms of how people are forced to live.)

My point in what I am saying is this is not a one-way street as some would try to have us believe, I am not supportive of any group or person that condones or carries out acts of violence against innocents. Both Hamas and Israel have a lot to answer for in this sad and sorry state of affairs..

All of the above is correct and the status quo in Gaza is a tragedy. A tragedy squarely in the hands of Hamas. Three times (2000, 2007, 2010) Israel attempted a two state solution with the Palestinians, the 2000 deal was for 95% of West Bank and 100% of Gaza. Hamas, a terrorist organisation designated as terrorists by the UN, US, UK, AUS have been the ruling government since 2007.

Why do you think Israel have Gaza so heavily blockaded? Hamas have fired 20,000 rockets into Israel since Israel withdrew from Gaza. The Hamas Covenent specifically states as one of the goals of Hamas is to "obliterate" Israel.

THE COVENANT OF THE HAMAS - MAIN POINTS

Palestinian people are forced to live the way they live because of Hamas, not Israel.

 

[Mistymuzzle]

The left have really threw me here.

Left values and Palestinians Arab culture just doesn't make sense..

IMO it more an anti zionist/semetic POV as well as seeing Palestinians as oppressed victims.

 

[mikey]

All of the above is correct and the status quo in Gaza is a tragedy. A tragedy squarely in the hands of Hamas. Three times (2000, 2007, 2010) Israel attempted a two state solution with the Palestinians, the 2000 deal was for 95% of West Bank and 100% of Gaza. Hamas, a terrorist organisation designated as terrorists by the UN, US, UK, AUS have been the ruling government since 2007.

Why do you think Israel have Gaza so heavily blockaded? Hamas have fired 20,000 rockets into Israel since Israel withdrew from Gaza. The Hamas Covenent specifically states as one of the goals of Hamas is to "obliterate" Israel.

THE COVENANT OF THE HAMAS - MAIN POINTS

Palestinian people are forced to live the way they live because of Hamas, not Israel.

We obviously have different takes on if there is only one or more aggressors in this. No point in either of us going around in circles if we aren't going change the other's point of view.