2023 Israel–Hamas war

[Mistymuzzle]

My view; Ireland found peace. Yes it's still tence, but it's far more peaceful in Northern Ireland.
We need to move Israel and Palestein to that point and push nations to fund/provide ain in peace not war. How? now that's a tough question.

What you are suggesting is not possible. The IRA, for all of their child murdering barbarism had a definable and achievable objective, independent Ireland. They goal was not to obliterate England and kill all the poms.

Hamas stated objective is Jihad until the death of all Jews and the obliteration of Israel. Hell of a starting point for negotiations. Westerners always fall in the trap of "Oh well that cant be their goal and all people want peace so lets talk". No. Hamas say it repeatedly with their words, their actions and written in their charter. They are what they say they are and its to the Wests detriment that we continue to project our values on them. They know this and have weaponised it.

 

[Mistymuzzle]

People are stoking this conflict. Pushing it hard. Many Jews want peace and many Palestines want peace as well. Lets call out Hamas and recognise that separation of them from Palestines in general.

Lets also remember that Hamas is the democratically elected (under the supervision of Jimmy Carter) government of Gaza. Lets also remember the streets of Gaza filled with those people celebrating murder and rape and spitting on and beating women and eldery hostages as they were paraded through the Gaza streets.

Lets not kid ourselves and project our values on others.

 

[Tiger_Fanatic3]

Absolutely sickening

🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻

 

[Mistymuzzle]

The fact that majority of people in this thread & the world are turning a blind eye to what Israel & the IDF are doing makes me sick. We are witnessing ethnic cleansing & genocide happen right in front of us & no one even cares. Just a reminder that 50% of the population in Palestine are under the age of 18.

Actions have consequences and a Nation has the right to defend itself and keep its citizens safe. Hamas could have the electricity, water and gas reinstated today but they dont. Hamas wanted this and they are getting it. It is disgusting and horrific, but all of this Palestinian blood is on Hamas hands.

 

[Mistymuzzle]

The Palestinian people are not responsible for the disgusting behaviour of Hamas. The murder of Palestinian lives in Gaza is appalling and unacceptable.

The killing of palestinians in Gaza is appalling and sickening, but actually legal and acceptable under the rules of war under the Geneva Convention. Hamas hiding their headquarters under a Hospital and launching rockets from civilian residential apartment buildings is actually a war crime. Israel are killing thousands of Palestinian civilians, everyone of them a tragedy. Hamas is forcing them to. Every drop of blood is on Hamas hands.

The murder of Israeli lives at the Supernova Festival and the various Kibbutz's is likewise appalling and unacceptable.

The look on the young Canadian women, Shir Georgy, as she waits with other Festival goers to be murdered fills me with horror. This is the last known photo of her alive. One party goer is on an IV and the lady next to Georgy has a leg would. I can only imagine the terror she feels.

She is dead

Canadian Israeli woman, missing since ambush at musical festival, has died: family

Family of a Canadian Israeli woman, who was missing since Hamas militants ambushed a music festival in southern Israel last Saturday, are dealing with the heartbreaking news she has died.

www.thestar.com

 

[pawsandclaws1]

The killing of palestinians in Gaza is appalling and sickening, but actually legal and acceptable under the rules of war under the Geneva Convention. Hamas hiding their headquarters under a Hospital and launching rockets from civilian residential apartment buildings is actually a war crime. Israel are killing thousands of Palestinian civilians, everyone of them a tragedy. Hamas is forcing them to. Every drop of blood is on Hamas hands.



She is dead

Canadian Israeli woman, missing since ambush at musical festival, has died: family

Family of a Canadian Israeli woman, who was missing since Hamas militants ambushed a music festival in southern Israel last Saturday, are dealing with the heartbreaking news she has died.

www.thestar.com

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2023/10/commission-inquiry-collecting-evidence-war-crimes-committed-all-sides-israel

It is a great tragedy that Shir Georgy is dead.

 

[Mistymuzzle]

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2023/10/commission-inquiry-collecting-evidence-war-crimes-committed-all-sides-israel

Yep pretty good summary. Hamas returns the hostages and the water and power is returned. Hamas are the war criminals clearly.

 

[weststigers]

Did Netanyahu push Hamas ahead of the PLA? Some people want peace in this conflict and some want war. Yes Hamas, from all I have seen wants war (although being open that a sub faction may have launched this strike. I believe it was orchistrated by the Hamas leadership).

Your key point
"This is not a swipe at Muslims, just these radical groups."

People are stoking this conflict. Pushing it hard. Many Jews want peace and many Palestines want peace as well. Lets call out Hamas and recognise that separation of them from Palestines in general.

Just can't believe Sussan Ley, head of the "Parliamentry friends of Palestine" criticising Penny Wong for asking for restraint. Ley called for a stack more in the recent past. All I am saying if you are criticising those who say "show restraint" make sure you haven't said far worse before (as Sussan has)

She once said Palestinians are 'airbrushed'. Now she says calls for restraint are 'disgraceful'

Deputy Liberal leader Sussan Ley has labelled Penny Wong's call for restraint in Israel and Gaza as "disgraceful".

www.sbs.com.au

I’m not sure of the point? Governments go to war, not civilians.

If China bombed us tomorrow, would the Chinese and Australian people want peace? Of course. Would the governments go to war? You bet they would.

I’m not sure what reaction everyone expected from the Israeli government?

 

[Magpie_Magic]

The first step towards a lasting peace is eliminating Hamas from the face of the planet. It was done with ISIS and can be done again. The only hope Palestinians have of peace and prosperity is getting rid of Hamas. Hamas does not want peace, it wants jihad and will not cease until Israel is pushed into the sea. They are not hiding the ball.

Probably militarily impossible.

Israel has not many good military options here.

House to house fighting suits Hamas. Perhaps 40 000 willing to die will take tens of thousands of Israeli casualties withh them.

Hamas are not Hezbollah but still are unlikely to ever be eradicated.

 

[Magpie_Magic]

I’m not sure of the point? Governments go to war, not civilians.

If China bombed us tomorrow, would the Chinese and Australian people want peace? Of course. Would the governments go to war? You bet they would.

I’m not sure what reaction everyone expected from the Israeli government?

100%.

Israel is fully within it's right to respond to those disgusting terrorist attacks.

I think most people just feel that there are double standards applied favouring Israel over many decades and if they and the US moved to a genuine two state solution that it lessens the probability of those attacks having taken place.

Just can't have people born and living their whole lives in refugee camps.

 

[Mistymuzzle]

Probably militarily impossible.

Israel has not many good military options here.

House to house fighting suits Hamas. Perhaps 40 000 willing to die will take tens of thousands of Israeli casualties withh them.

Hamas are not Hezbollah but still are unlikely to ever be eradicated.

Im sure you are right and of course every innocent Palestinian killed by Israel, no matter what the consequences of that killing, strengthens Hamas cause and probably resolves the Palestinians behind Hamas.

Doesnt change the fact that peace is not possible whilst Hamas exists.

 

[Mistymuzzle]

I’m not sure of the point? Governments go to war, not civilians.

If China bombed us tomorrow, would the Chinese and Australian people want peace? Of course. Would the governments go to war? You bet they would.

I’m not sure what reaction everyone expected from the Israeli government?

Agreed. But Id add that this is the reaction that Hamas expect and wanted as well.

 

[Mistymuzzle]

100%.

Israel is fully within it's right to respond to those disgusting terrorist attacks.

I think most people just feel that there are double standards applied favouring Israel over many decades and if they and the US moved to a genuine two state solution that it lessens the probability of those attacks having taken place.

Israel offered a genuine two state proposal in 2000, 2007 and 2010. The 2000 Camp David proposal gave 95% of the West Bank and 100% of Gaza to the Palestinians.

Hamas literally has it written in Article 13 of their Charter to reject any Peace deal or two state solution in favour of Jihad. I genuinely dont kow how people expect to negotiate with that.

'[Peace] initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement... Those conferences are no more than a means to appoint the infidels as arbitrators in the lands of Islam... There is no solution for the Palestinian problem except by Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are but a waste of time, an exercise in futility.'

Just can't have people born and living their whole lives in refugee camps.

Agree but these people need to look at who is keeping them locked in.

 

[TillLindemann]

Those Lord of the Rings movies were incredibly boring.

Give the book a try!

 

[Winston Churchill]

Yep pretty good summary. Hamas returns the hostages and the water and power is returned. Hamas are the war criminals clearly.

I can't imagine what it must be like living in others peoples heads for 30 seconds that can think otherwise. Up is down, left is right. Mind numbing but im sure its bliss not living in reality.

 

[InBenjiWeTrust]

Im sure you are right and of course every innocent Palestinian killed by Israel, no matter what the consequences of that killing, strengthens Hamas cause and probably resolves the Palestinians behind Hamas.

Doesnt change the fact that peace is not possible whilst Hamas exists.

IMHO, Iran and many other Arab countries use Palestinians for their proxy war against Israel and perhaps the USA. Many of those countries would not accept any piece with Israel.
One theory is that HAMAS attacked Israel to delay/disrupt piece agreement between Saudi Arabia and Israel.

Anyhow, we are "lucky" to live, as per that Chinese curse “May he live in interesting times.”

 

[Winston Churchill]

IMHO, Iran and many other Arab countries use Palestinians for their proxy war against Israel and perhaps the USA. Many of those countries would not accept any piece with Israel.
One theory is that HAMAS attacked Israel to delay/disrupt piece agreement between Saudi Arabia and Israel.

Anyhow, we are "lucky" to live, as per that Chinese curse “May he live in interesting times.”

One theory is that HAMAS attacked Israel to delay/disrupt piece agreement between Saudi Arabia and Israel.

Obvious is obvious, but careful IBWT you'll be called a conspiracy theorist.

Arab countries use Palestinians for their proxy war against Israel

And for those that missed it earlier - The State of Palestine can be summed up here on their wiki page -

Useful idiot - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[weststigers]

The fact that majority of people in this thread & the world are turning a blind eye to what Israel & the IDF are doing makes me sick. We are witnessing ethnic cleansing & genocide happen right in front of us & no one even cares. Just a reminder that 50% of the population in Palestine are under the age of 18.

It’s HAMAS that has the ethic cleansing doctrine. Please read the charter. Israel has no such policy.

You surely can’t be surprised that Israel will deploy troops after it was invaded and a massacre took place within its borders? The retribution will now far outweigh their act if we simply count the bodies. But why would HAMAS pick this lopsided fight? It’s like Australia invading China and expecting China to do nothing about it. We all know what would happen and it would be no surprise. In fact, many of us would be cursing our government for doing something so stupid. The only answer is written in their doctrine - “death for the sake of Allah is the loftiest of its wishes”.

Does that mean anyone agrees with the killing of children? I don’t think any sane person wants to see this, but given your outrage about young people dying, you may be able to understand Israel’s reaction when put in the context of them seeing Israeli babies with their heads cut off. To kill babies at all, let alone in this way, looks a lot like ethnic cleansing to me.

If we are talking about this event in isolation, your take has little balance.

If you want to talk about whether HAMAS is justified in their invasion and massacre in a historical context, then that’s another discussion.

 

[Winston Churchill]

Can you imagine what HAMAS was thinking when they carried out these attacks not giving a turd about Israels inevitable retaliation afterwards. The international community have greenlit Israel to turn Gaza into a parking lot at this stage. What were they thinking would happen? Cheers for that HAMAS can we have another? This alone shows you where they stand on keeping their citizens safe. They have zero concerns over the people they govern, rather at all cost (their citizens lives) it is to kill the jew. Spare me the concern for the Palestinian people are oppressed by Israel rhetoric, one should be more concerned with HAMAS in Palestine/Gaza over all else.

 

[TillLindemann]

Apologies, stupid autocorrect, I meant to say Middle Earth not Middle East.

In my opinion Tolkien is still unsurpassed. The LOTR movies were epic, but really the book is so much better. Honestly, everyone should read the book at some point in their life.

Was less of a fan of The Hobbit though.

Please, back on topic everyone, if you want to argue about which Abrahamic sect has the right to a tiny patch of dirt west of Jordan rather than the genius of Tolkien take it elsewhere.