Signings, Suggestions & Rumours Discussion

[weststigerman]

He's had a great career, achieved more than 99.9% of other players. Seems like a very decent person too who would be great to have around the team.

Unfortunately this year he is not providing any value. His role and some could easily be filled by Twal, or just about any other mid-low tier prop.

We'll see in the next few games if he was providing value. IMO while not particularly dynamic he's been doing his job. He is playing less minutes than Pole and Stef and making more metres. I don't think any of our other props can start the game and do the job as effectively.

We don't have a strong squad but I would suggest front row and halves are our strongest IMO. Lock, second row, centres, wingers all need work before this.

 

[Betterdays22]

My apologies up front: this is going to be a long post.

I have been pondering the solution to our poor performace for more than a decade and I am a firm believer that our poor performances have been directly realted to our ability to control a game. This doesn't have anything to do with skill with ball in hand this is related to football IQ. I am a card carrying Brooks basher - not because of his skills - but because he has never had the football IQ required to lead a team. He is great at playing a role. It was not his fault - he was a round peg forced into a square hole at WT.

But he's gone and we aren't performing significanly better. Why?

A good footy team has a balance - different body shapes, different playing styles and different levels of footballing smarts. We have a reasonable mix across the board - sure we could do with some upgrades and we lack discipline at times; but, we have shown plenty of skill and plenty of grit at different times of the season so far and more often than not in different parts of each game we play.

What we don't have is the ability to control the game so that is happens at our pace. How do we develop this and who do we target to be the Wests Tiger's "Cooper Cronk/Matty Johns"?

Our problem is football the smarts of our halves. When we control of the pill we control the game. I think that we have been so fixated in playing the up tempo game the NRL wants that we have forgotten that what really wins football games is control.

Our focus has to be on developing the ability to control the pace of the game; to develop a plan to make what we have work. We aren't Penrith, Melbourne or Brisbane with strike weapons across the park. While Api can do a little bit as Captain and from hooker the pace/momentum can only really be controlled by the halves.

How do address this problem? We need to stop trying to play to the NRL playsheet of fast open football. This will be hard because that is how kids are taught to play through the grades. Benji needs to educate our halves and stop telling them to simply play what they see. This is a great strategy when we need to up the tempo; the problem is there are times where we have really needed to slow the game down to break the opposition's rhythm or simply get some gas back into the tank of our guys.

Our halves need to understand the game and the needs of the team and then apply the play what you see lens over that.

• If we are gassed; kick to the sideline and start from a set play - get some air snd start with a set defensive line.
• If we are stuggling to go forward but aren't gassed a 40/20 is a great tool - Api from dummy half, Sezer at half or find a specialist 40/20 kicker and develop a play (maybe Naden can be useful?). Make it a Tigers trademark.
• If we have energy and a bit of freedom let the ball sing - we only tend to do this chasing points when it is too late. At times we look good doing this - Sullivan and Galvin suit this style of play and FFS Staines could even come in handy instead of using him as a first tackle option 10 out from our own line.

Who is that guy for us? Sezer definitely has the experience to execute that role. Perhaps if Latu can get fit he can do that job - I don't know - but that is the skill set that we are missing. Galvin and Sullivan appear to be more heads up players and need somone else to control the tempo.

What we do doen't have to be pretty - just effective. This is on the coaching staff; they have to develop our halves to understand what the team needs, at what time of the game, and tp provide them with the plays to really control our fortunes on the park.

No point going back and what-iffing, but your points above are why I believe having Adam Reynolds at the club after he left Souths would have been a game changer. His attributes - composure, game management and kicking are everything the club has needed.

Granted he is playing is a superior Broncos side in just about every way, but just looking at how Souths have completely lost the head over the last 2 seasons will give a good indication as to the influence he has.

 

[Needaname]

Armstrong is a wing / centre and only a late call up as they have another kid "fullback" Sharpe... As he was only just returning back from injury.

Sharpe is a weapon. But apparently there is a younger NZ born fullback up there that is better than all bar Ponga

 

[Tucker]

My apologies up front: this is going to be a long post.

I have been pondering the solution to our poor performace for more than a decade and I am a firm believer that our poor performances have been directly realted to our ability to control a game. This doesn't have anything to do with skill with ball in hand this is related to football IQ. I am a card carrying Brooks basher - not because of his skills - but because he has never had the football IQ required to lead a team. He is great at playing a role. It was not his fault - he was a round peg forced into a square hole at WT.

But he's gone and we aren't performing significanly better. Why?

A good footy team has a balance - different body shapes, different playing styles and different levels of footballing smarts. We have a reasonable mix across the board - sure we could do with some upgrades and we lack discipline at times; but, we have shown plenty of skill and plenty of grit at different times of the season so far and more often than not in different parts of each game we play.

What we don't have is the ability to control the game so that is happens at our pace. How do we develop this and who do we target to be the Wests Tiger's "Cooper Cronk/Matty Johns"?

Our problem is football the smarts of our halves. When we control of the pill we control the game. I think that we have been so fixated in playing the up tempo game the NRL wants that we have forgotten that what really wins football games is control.

Our focus has to be on developing the ability to control the pace of the game; to develop a plan to make what we have work. We aren't Penrith, Melbourne or Brisbane with strike weapons across the park. While Api can do a little bit as Captain and from hooker the pace/momentum can only really be controlled by the halves.

How do address this problem? We need to stop trying to play to the NRL playsheet of fast open football. This will be hard because that is how kids are taught to play through the grades. Benji needs to educate our halves and stop telling them to simply play what they see. This is a great strategy when we need to up the tempo; the problem is there are times where we have really needed to slow the game down to break the opposition's rhythm or simply get some gas back into the tank of our guys.

Our halves need to understand the game and the needs of the team and then apply the play what you see lens over that.

• If we are gassed; kick to the sideline and start from a set play - get some air snd start with a set defensive line.
• If we are stuggling to go forward but aren't gassed a 40/20 is a great tool - Api from dummy half, Sezer at half or find a specialist 40/20 kicker and develop a play (maybe Naden can be useful?). Make it a Tigers trademark.
• If we have energy and a bit of freedom let the ball sing - we only tend to do this chasing points when it is too late. At times we look good doing this - Sullivan and Galvin suit this style of play and FFS Staines could even come in handy instead of using him as a first tackle option 10 out from our own line.

Who is that guy for us? Sezer definitely has the experience to execute that role. Perhaps if Latu can get fit he can do that job - I don't know - but that is the skill set that we are missing. Galvin and Sullivan appear to be more heads up players and need somone else to control the tempo.

What we do doen't have to be pretty - just effective. This is on the coaching staff; they have to develop our halves to understand what the team needs, at what time of the game, and tp provide them with the plays to really control our fortunes on the park.

Great post.
Weve had our fair share of ball this year averaging out at 50% for possession across our 11 games thus far. Not understanding the flow of the game and when to alter the speed of it is killing us. We allow oppositions to stackup huge set for meters gained in a row and still try to attack when fatigued from defence. Its lunacy and thats causing unforced errors which are then compounded by frustration leading to penalties.
Id hire Cam Smith to provide insight into how you control a game. As good as Cronk, Thursty and Slater were in this area, Smith was leading the gang.

 

[Tucker]

No point going back and what-iffing, but your points above are why I believe having Adam Reynolds at the club after he left Souths would have been a game changer. His attributes - composure, game management and kicking are everything the club has needed.

Granted he is playing is a superior Broncos side in just about every way, but just looking at how Souths have completely lost the head over the last 2 seasons will give a good indication as to the influence he has.

100%.
I couldnt believe the opposition we were getting on here when suggesting we target him after Souths let him go.
He gets to Red Hill and states he is amazed how low their knowledge of the game was.
2 years later they are pushing for the title. Coupled with what you have said about Souths and his influence cannot be denied.
Imagine what he could have done with our mob....

 

[Vicious]

You can knock Matterson's character sure, but nobody can knock how he performed for us. He's the mythical unicorn that played all his best football at the Tigers. Even when he wanted out due to the serial player wrecker playing him busted he still put in huge efforts.

He did lay well for us and I was very disappointed when he left.
That said his form this season has not been good and at his age it’s hard to see any improvement in him.

 

[The Chad]

It's not a "Polynesian thing" that needs fixing.

Someone said earlier that it's 'body type'.

It is that, mixed with 'playing type'.

This club needs quite a few things. That ball playing, involved in everything, 110% effort lock player for example.

The best we've had in recent years?

Elijah Taylor- you guessed it, a Polynesian.

Our forwards are a weird mix based mostly on reputation.

Papali'i hasn't fit as well as liked. Utoikamanu isn't dominating. Pole struggles for consistancy. Klemmer/Twal/Seyfarth are all very similar types.

Other than Sam Fainu, we lack those explosive athletes that teams fear. We have, what some use as an insult, plodders.

Thing is- they are pretty good 'plodders'. Just too many of them. In similar roles.

A bit of variety in our forwards would go a long way.

 

[stephen]

My apologies up front: this is going to be a long post.

I have been pondering the solution to our poor performace for more than a decade and I am a firm believer that our poor performances have been directly realted to our ability to control a game. This doesn't have anything to do with skill with ball in hand this is related to football IQ. I am a card carrying Brooks basher - not because of his skills - but because he has never had the football IQ required to lead a team. He is great at playing a role. It was not his fault - he was a round peg forced into a square hole at WT.

But he's gone and we aren't performing significanly better. Why?

A good footy team has a balance - different body shapes, different playing styles and different levels of footballing smarts. We have a reasonable mix across the board - sure we could do with some upgrades and we lack discipline at times; but, we have shown plenty of skill and plenty of grit at different times of the season so far and more often than not in different parts of each game we play.

What we don't have is the ability to control the game so that it happens at our pace. How do we develop this and who do we target to be the Wests Tiger's "Cooper Cronk/Matty Johns"?

Our problem is the football smarts of our halves. When we control of the pill we control the game. I think that we have been so fixated in playing the up tempo game the NRL wants that we have forgotten that what really wins football games is control.

Our focus has to be on developing the ability to control the pace of the game; to develop a plan to make what we have work. We aren't Penrith, Melbourne or Brisbane with strike weapons across the park. While Api can do a little bit as Captain and from hooker the pace/momentum can only really be controlled by the halves.

How do we address this problem? We need to stop trying to play to the NRL playsheet of fast open football. This will be hard because that is how kids are taught to play through the grades. Benji needs to educate our halves and stop telling them to simply play what they see. This is a great strategy when we need to up the tempo; the problem is there are times where we have really needed to slow the game down to break the opposition's rhythm or simply get some gas back into the tank of our guys.

Our halves need to understand the game and the needs of the team and then apply the play what you see lens over that.

• If we are gassed; kick to the sideline and start from a set play - get some air and start with a set defensive line.
• If we are stuggling to go forward but aren't gassed a 40/20 is a great tool - Api from dummy half, Sezer at half or find a specialist 40/20 kicker and develop a play (maybe Naden can be useful?). Make it a Tigers trademark.
• If we have energy and a bit of freedom let the ball sing - we only tend to do this chasing points when it is too late. At times we look good doing this - Sullivan and Galvin suit this style of play and FFS Staines could even come in handy instead of using him as a first tackle option 10 out from our own line.

Who is that guy for us? I don't know - but that is the skill set that we are missing. Sezer definitely has the experience to execute that role. Perhaps if Latu can get fit he can do that job. Galvin and Sullivan appear to be more heads up players and need somone else to control the tempo.

What we don't have to be is pretty - just effective. This is on the coaching staff; they have to develop our halves to understand what the team needs, at what time of the game, and to provide them with the plays to really control our fortunes on the park.

Great post, Jolls.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

I've read so much praise for Jordan Miller on here, yet when I watch him play he's a lazy , sloppy fatter version Tuki. I just don't get what people think players like him have to offer beside size.

I bet a few described Arthur Beetson in a similar way. Each young man takes time to mature and grow into his body. He's very young but prodigiously talented. Let him play his game and I have no doubt his fitness and physique will come.

 

[WesternSuburbsBoy]

I've read so much praise for Jordan Miller on here, yet when I watch him play he's a lazy , sloppy fatter version Tuki. I just don't get what people think players like him have to offer beside size.

He's been improving every week in cup no doubt & there's definitely talent there. The problem is with his current build & conditioning he might not be ready for regular NRL games for another 2 years & we need players who are ready now.

 

[Tucker]

I bet a few described Arthur Beetson in a similar way.

Arthur played in a time where players had a durrie at halftime and nutrition meant not skipping a meal just because you were 10 schooey's deep.
A lot more is expected of players these days.

 

[weststigers]

He's been improving every week in cup no doubt & there's definitely talent there. The problem is with his current build & conditioning he might not be ready for regular NRL games for another 2 years & we need players who are ready now.

He's 130kg at 19 years old isn't he?

Even at 6ft 3, that's a lot for a player to carry around.

If he can drop 10 to 15kg, while maintaining strength, he'll probably be able to get around the park better at NRL level. With the speed of the game these days, that sort of weight can be a liability.

 

[851]

What gave you that impression?
Was it the fact that Manly played him in that position for 12 first grade games last season?

If you are going to attempt to put someone down with humour, at least do some research and be factual, he has played 5 games for Manly, not 12, and not all 5 at secondrow.
He also played prop for NSW U/19's, so I hope that helps

 

[yeti]

What bothers me with watching some ex- players
like Tuilagi, Pauga, Mikaele, McIntyre etc. They either
up their game when they leave or you don't see the
Stand-out glaring errors in their game like at our
club. We need a football mastermind as director
of football. Nobody biz related, just a real footy head!

It's definitely the latter. Mikaele is offloading to no-one most of the time. Tuilagi is still sluggish in defence but the men either side of him fix the problem. None of these guys mentioned above would be any different in our team now than they were when they left.

 

[BAGNF05]

As an earlier poster wrote, there are more than 1or 2 individuals that are the problem. In virtually every area of the game we are just off the pace.
When it comes to our pack, the simplistic answers are run harder and tackle harder. As individuals they rarely bend the line, look to offload, get fast ptbs- and in D our first contact is way too soft. We need to move up and smash guys, play with aggression, but we don’t. We hang back, allowing the opposition to gather momentum and get their roll on. Line speed stops the opposing momentum.
Again, it’s just one part of the game, but an important foundation and we just don’t show the necessary intent.

Our forwards have individual ability. Problem is they are generally tired and overworked because our outside backs do sweet FA.

 

[Tiger-ferret]

What bothers me with watching some ex- players
like Tuilagi, Pauga, Mikaele, McIntyre etc. They either
up their game when they leave or you don't see the
Stand-out glaring errors in their game like at our
club. We need a football mastermind as director
of football. Nobody biz related, just a real footy head!

They’re all just average players playing next to above average players (which we lack)

 

[Kelce68]

My apologies up front: this is going to be a long post.

I have been pondering the solution to our poor performace for more than a decade and I am a firm believer that our poor performances have been directly realted to our ability to control a game. This doesn't have anything to do with skill with ball in hand this is related to football IQ. I am a card carrying Brooks basher - not because of his skills - but because he has never had the football IQ required to lead a team. He is great at playing a role. It was not his fault - he was a round peg forced into a square hole at WT.

But he's gone and we aren't performing significanly better. Why?

A good footy team has a balance - different body shapes, different playing styles and different levels of footballing smarts. We have a reasonable mix across the board - sure we could do with some upgrades and we lack discipline at times; but, we have shown plenty of skill and plenty of grit at different times of the season so far and more often than not in different parts of each game we play.

What we don't have is the ability to control the game so that it happens at our pace. How do we develop this and who do we target to be the Wests Tiger's "Cooper Cronk/Matty Johns"?

Our problem is the football smarts of our halves. When we control of the pill we control the game. I think that we have been so fixated in playing the up tempo game the NRL wants that we have forgotten that what really wins football games is control.

Our focus has to be on developing the ability to control the pace of the game; to develop a plan to make what we have work. We aren't Penrith, Melbourne or Brisbane with strike weapons across the park. While Api can do a little bit as Captain and from hooker the pace/momentum can only really be controlled by the halves.

How do we address this problem? We need to stop trying to play to the NRL playsheet of fast open football. This will be hard because that is how kids are taught to play through the grades. Benji needs to educate our halves and stop telling them to simply play what they see. This is a great strategy when we need to up the tempo; the problem is there are times where we have really needed to slow the game down to break the opposition's rhythm or simply get some gas back into the tank of our guys.

Our halves need to understand the game and the needs of the team and then apply the play what you see lens over that.

• If we are gassed; kick to the sideline and start from a set play - get some air and start with a set defensive line.
• If we are stuggling to go forward but aren't gassed a 40/20 is a great tool - Api from dummy half, Sezer at half or find a specialist 40/20 kicker and develop a play (maybe Naden can be useful?). Make it a Tigers trademark.
• If we have energy and a bit of freedom let the ball sing - we only tend to do this chasing points when it is too late. At times we look good doing this - Sullivan and Galvin suit this style of play and FFS Staines could even come in handy instead of using him as a first tackle option 10 out from our own line.

Who is that guy for us? I don't know - but that is the skill set that we are missing. Sezer definitely has the experience to execute that role. Perhaps if Latu can get fit he can do that job. Galvin and Sullivan appear to be more heads up players and need somone else to control the tempo.

What we don't have to be is pretty - just effective. This is on the coaching staff; they have to develop our halves to understand what the team needs, at what time of the game, and to provide them with the plays to really control our fortunes on the park.

Good stuff mate, the manual manipulation of momentum is just about limited to Api racing out of the line a couple of times a game. Far too often, every week for that matter, we simply let the opposition and the game happen to us and, more often than not, the game just rolls right over the top of us.

Managing and turning momentum is everything in the modern game and plays right into the game management you're talking about. I think this is where Luai, whilst not being the second coming, will make a big difference.

 

[UnderTheBus]

Re Matterson - Are we forgetting that the bloke chose to sit out 3 weeks instead of paying a 3k fine? The bloke is selfish and looks after brand Matterson and that is it. Should not touch him.

 

[Jolls]

Good stuff mate, the manual manipulation of momentum is just about limited to Api racing out of the line a couple of times a game. Far too often, every week for that matter, we simply let the opposition and the game happen to us and, more often than not, the game just rolls right over the top of us.

Managing and turning momentum is everything in the modern game and plays right into the game management you're talking about. I think this is where Luai, whilst not being the second coming, will make a big difference.

I trust that Luai has this skill set; however, he appears to be a high energy go forward type player as well. However, as he plays in a dominant Penrith system it may well be that we just haven't seen that side of him much.

I don't think we need to wait for Luai, this is something that can be done right now. It is not hard to find touch if you are flagging. A 40/20 or 20/40 is harder to execute; but, if it doesn't come off is always effective (with a good kick and chase) because it means the kick is not down the throat of one of the back three.

We simply don't manage the flow of the game when we have the pill; and we won't start winning until we do.

 

[Tucker]

What bothers me with watching some ex- players
like Tuilagi, Pauga, Mikaele, McIntyre etc. They either
up their game when they leave or you don't see the
Stand-out glaring errors in their game like at our
club. We need a football mastermind as director
of football. Nobody biz related, just a real footy head!

Isnt that why we originally hired Sheens?
Fast forward less than a year and we sacked him because he wasnt getting results as head coach🤣🤣🤣