Stefano Utoikamanu #241

BAGNF05 said:
I disagree totally but I think Stef will go from strength to strength at a big club. Guess it depends on your forecasts.

His manager has used the media constantly to drum up interest and personally I think this has been bad for his 2024 form.
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I don’t agree his Manager wins out of this.

If anything players won’t flock to him because he hasn’t got a high price deal & he misses out financially also.

I agree Stefano will be a quality prop especially under the Storm system but if he signs a 5yr deal this will be his big career contract, it would be unlikely his next deal at 30/31 will be more financially rewarding than this one. Also leaving 1-200k on the table per year = upto 1m missing from what his manager can get compensation % package from is a fair hit.

We gain nothing in letting Stefano talk now v start or end of year. Richo took a punt and it failed on results/SOO, Richo is taking a 2nd punt that our offer is more than competitive which he thinks is enough to keep him.

I don’t want him to leave, just don’t see better options than him close to being available. With Klemmer and Twal leaving at some point next 2yrs or so it’s a huge void to find 1 prop let alone 3 that are NRL standard.
 
Mighty_Tiger said:
I don’t agree his Manager wins out of this.

If anything players won’t flock to him because he hasn’t got a high price deal & he misses out financially also.

I agree Stefano will be a quality prop especially under the Storm system but if he signs a 5yr deal this will be his big career contract, it would be unlikely his next deal at 30/31 will be more financially rewarding than this one. Also leaving 1-200k on the table per year = upto 1m missing from what his manager can get compensation % package from is a fair hit.

We gain nothing in letting Stefano talk now v start or end of year. Richo took a punt and it failed on results/SOO, Richo is taking a 2nd punt that our offer is more than competitive which he thinks is enough to keep him.

I don’t want him to leave, just don’t see better options than him close to being available. With Klemmer and Twal leaving at some point next 2yrs or so it’s a huge void to find 1 prop let alone 3 that are NRL standard.
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Manager wins in the scenario where Stef goes on to play rep footy at a high level for a long period and can basically demand an upgrade. He will win if Stef fulfils his potential and that’s a better chance of happening at Storm. Who knows what fringe benefits the Storm (News ltd) can toss up to managers also??

I want him to stay too but happy that we should know sooner rather than later so we have a better chance of replacing him.
 
It’s annoying that we took him in as a youngster and help develop him. Payed him overs for the faith of him sticking it out. Even though he wasn’t playing to a consistent high level often enough. Then he wants to sod off, Wayne ker!
 
lathami said:
It’s annoying that we took him in as a youngster and help develop him. Payed him overs for the faith of him sticking it out. Even though he wasn’t playing to a consistent high level often enough. Then he wants to sod off, Wayne ker!
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Or.. we needlessly cycled through 4 coaches in less than 4 years which no doubt hampered the development of Stef and many other players and left him feeling another club would be better for his long term career.
 
Club needs a culture shift. Ideally Utoikamanu is part of that. But if not, or if we don't change how we play in the middle, it makes no real difference.

We cannot continue to lose the physical battle. It's nothing to do with size, or power running. It's stopping the opposition dominating the ruck, winning the wrestle, slowing our play & the Tigers not holding the opposition through the middle of the field.
 
BAGNF05 said:
Or.. we needlessly cycled through 4 coaches in less than 4 years which no doubt hampered the development of Stef and many other players and left him feeling another club would be better for his long term career.
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Settle down captain negative!
Wow, what a surprise a team coming last 2-3 years in a row changing coaches that often. I would of expected them to be the most stable of clubs during this time?!?
I dont get your support for the club, we all know they are going crap. There’s no need to rubbish everything they are doing to correct it. With your rational we should expect to come last for ever, as there’s no point to go to a struggling club if your a good player.
I’ve said for a while now that clubs in the bottom 1/3 of clubs should get salary cap exceptions terraced up to the last team. Due to the lower clubs needing to offer more money to attract good players.
Otherwise the game becomes too boring same teams always at the top.
 
lathami said:
Settle down captain negative!
Wow, what a surprise a team coming last 2-3 years in a row changing coaches that often. I would of expected them to be the most stable of clubs during this time?!?
I dont get your support for the club, we all know they are going crap. There’s no need to rubbish everything they are doing to correct it. With your rational we should expect to come last for ever, as there’s no point to go to a struggling club if your a good player.
I’ve said for a while now that clubs in the bottom 1/3 of clubs should get salary cap exceptions terraced up to the last team. Due to the lower clubs needing to offer more money to attract good players.
Otherwise the game becomes too boring same teams always at the top.
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I don’t think you’ve read that many of my recent posts but thanks for the feedback.

No doubt it’s turning into something like EPL with a big six clubs. A draft for elite U21’s would be my preferred fix.
 
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lathami said:
Settle down captain negative!
Wow, what a surprise a team coming last 2-3 years in a row changing coaches that often. I would of expected them to be the most stable of clubs during this time?!?
I dont get your support for the club, we all know they are going crap. There’s no need to rubbish everything they are doing to correct it. With your rational we should expect to come last for ever, as there’s no point to go to a struggling club if your a good player.
I’ve said for a while now that clubs in the bottom 1/3 of clubs should get salary cap exceptions terraced up to the last team. Due to the lower clubs needing to offer more money to attract good players.
Otherwise the game becomes too boring same teams always at the top.
Click to expand...
The draft was supposed to fix this and in AFL has definitely leveled the playing field and given lower placed clubs the opportunity to get of the canvas (still a bludger of a sport though…)
Players and player agents strangled this at birth in the NRL. Our very own Terry Hill (God rest his soul) in fact challenged this in court and won. A time where player (and agent) power was put ahead of the best interests of the sport.
The salary cap has worked to an extent, but it’s laughable when you compare certain rosters to think they are not rorting or at the very least operating in the margins. For instance, sign on with us for the final two years of your contract for way under and we will use our connections on the board to get you a media gig to supplement your income and set you up after footy. You probably have plausible deniability as a club with regards breaching the salary cap, but it’s not operating in the spirit of what the salary cap was intended to achieve.
Players should be given an assigned fair market value by the NRL when they are off or coming off contract. It doesn’t need to be an exact science, $100k bands would be fine. A player can sign for unders but the assigned fmv is what is counted in the cap. If a club wants to pay above the assigned value, they can, but the higher value is what’s included in the cap.
That would distribute talent more evenly within 3-4 seasons as players come off contract. You could provide some discount for an incumbent club resigning a player whose fmv has increased significantly during their time with the club. That would reward clubs who improved a players fmv while they were at the club.
 
SwervinMervin said:
The draft was supposed to fix this and in AFL has definitely leveled the playing field and given lower placed clubs the opportunity to get of the canvas (still a bludger of a sport though…)
Players and player agents strangled this at birth in the NRL. Our very own Terry Hill (God rest his soul) in fact challenged this in court and won. A time where player (and agent) power was put ahead of the best interests of the sport.
The salary cap has worked to an extent, but it’s laughable when you compare certain rosters to think they are not rorting or at the very least operating in the margins. For instance, sign on with us for the final two years of your contract for way under and we will use our connections on the board to get you a media gig to supplement your income and set you up after footy. You probably have plausible deniability as a club with regards breaching the salary cap, but it’s not operating in the spirit of what the salary cap was intended to achieve.
Players should be given an assigned fair market value by the NRL when they are off or coming off contract. It doesn’t need to be an exact science, $100k bands would be fine. A player can sign for unders but the assigned fmv is what is counted in the cap. If a club wants to pay above the assigned value, they can, but the higher value is what’s included in the cap.
That would distribute talent more evenly within 3-4 seasons as players come off contract. You could provide some discount for an incumbent club resigning a player whose fmv has increased significantly during their time with the club. That would reward clubs who improved a players fmv while they were at the club.
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Great post champion @SwervinMervin but will Head Office ever see such reason?
 
BAGNF05 said:
Yeah that’s a furphy for sure.

We’re still equal with Parramatta and have been at least semi-competitive in ten of our sixteen games by my count.

I’d hate to think were we could be if a few young guys hadn’t played pretty well this year.
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Yes, some of our highly paid veterans are just not performing. It seems to have been the case with most of the clubs high profile signings for a decade or more now. Even the players Cleary brought to the club failed to fire......whilst taking hefty pay cheques.

There was a period of time when that was the case at the Roosters, they got the nickname of "The Transit Lounge" for a while there. It seems Wests Tigers have taken that title from them.
 
AmericanHistoryX said:
I concurr. Stef will kill it under strong leadership.
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Strong "leadership" is the key word.
Stef does not have "Strong Leadership".
Needs to be in the background not having the responsibility to "Lead".
The focus to be on others; and let Stef play at his supplementary level, a clear head.
Not cluttered with the responsibility of others who may not be performing up to scratch?
 
lathami said:
It’s annoying that we took him in as a youngster and help develop him. Payed him overs for the faith of him sticking it out. Even though he wasn’t playing to a consistent high level often enough. Then he wants to sod off, Wayne ker!
Click to expand...
I used to feel the same way a while back. Yes he has been poor this year but for the last couple of years he's obviously cracked NSW starting side and reserves a couple of times so must not have been that poor.

If this was a one off case, I would understand this feeling of yours but after having cycled through so many people who have wanted to leave after performing well here, it's the constant inability to support our most elite players which seems to push them off the edge.

In any career, you want to see growth in the way that you want to grow. It's simple that Stefano isn't ready for a leadership role and wants to improve more as a front rower than as a leader. Let's be honest, it's probably tougher physically at Melbourne or Roosters etc but mentally/ emotionally, it seems to be tougher here.

Not everyone is cut out for leadership and those who turn their backs on us may have good careers in other teams but rarely (e.g. Tedesco) do they turn out to be good leaders (Matterson, Moses, Aloiai, Woods etc)
 
tig_prmz said:
I used to feel the same way a while back. Yes he has been poor this year but for the last couple of years he's obviously cracked NSW starting side and reserves a couple of times so must not have been that poor.

If this was a one off case, I would understand this feeling of yours but after having cycled through so many people who have wanted to leave after performing well here, it's the constant inability to support our most elite players which seems to push them off the edge.

In any career, you want to see growth in the way that you want to grow. It's simple that Stefano isn't ready for a leadership role and wants to improve more as a front rower than as a leader. Let's be honest, it's probably tougher physically at Melbourne or Roosters etc but mentally/ emotionally, it seems to be tougher here.

Not everyone is cut out for leadership and those who turn their backs on us may have good careers in other teams but rarely (e.g. Tedesco) do they turn out to be good leaders (Matterson, Moses, Aloiai, Woods etc)
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The reason player want out is very simple we are not winning and playing in any finals games , with that comes the coach sackings , Poor recruitment , and just the media talking point or should I say bashing point , the club performs badly , looks bad , and has bad results , nothing changes until we learn to win and get up in the 8 , Richo needs to add 3 to 4 more quality players as our young guys are a couple years off and if we rush them we probably break them
 
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