Signings, Suggestions & Rumours Discussion

The Chad said:
Focusing solely on the Tigers middle forwards as the area requiring the most radical upgrade:

I've used the Dolphins & Roosters as the types of forward packs that we should try to emulate in order to rebalance our squad. I'm going to remove the Roosters & instead use Canterbury for the following post, simply because they are coming from a similar spot as we are currently.

MIDDLES:
Dolphins- Jarrod Wallace, Jesse Bromwich, Josh Kerr, Mark Nicholls, Tavita Pangai Jnr, Thomas Flegler, Tom Gilbert, Ray Stone, Max Plath

Bulldogs- Chris Patolo, Josh Curran, Kurt Mann, Max King, Liam Knight, Ryan Sutton, Sam Hughes, Zane Tetevano, Paosa Faamusili

Tigers- Stefano Utoikamanu, Fonua Pole, Sione Fainu, David Klemmer, Alex Twal, Alex Seyfarth, Justin Matamua, Jordan Miller, Rueben Porter

I would suggest that, player for player, our middles match up talent-wise with both clubs. Where I think there IS a difference, however, is in who plays off the bench for impact & who are the go-to guys.

If FIT- the Dolphins starters are Bromwich, Flegler & Gilbert. None of these guys are particularly spectacular at run metres, but all are committed defenders with very high tackle completions. With Flegler & Gilbert OUT, Ray Stone has come in & he is also a committed defender. Kerr & Nicholls play their role, particularly off the bench. These 2 are better runners of the ball, more guys that are known for their hit-ups. Pangai Jnr is only a recent add, and he's another impact runner (playing as a starter due to injuries). Plath & Wallace are ALSO committed defenders with very little real impact as runners.


The Bulldogs start Hughes, Max King & Curren/Mann. Again- none of these guys are overly dominant runners of the ball, but all are hard workers with excellent defensive numbers. Patolo, Morrin & Curren/Mann are generally off the bench- again, none offering particularly damaging attack, but significant defensive abilities.

The Tigers start Utoikamanu, Pole & Klemmer most often. Twal, Seyfarth, Sione Fainu & Matamua have all contributed extensively through the season. Now, Pole is a good runner of the ball, but his defence is scratchy. Utoikamanu & Klemmer are decent defenders, but Utoikamanu is definitely known for his attacking ability. Sione Fainu rivals Pole in defence. Twal & Seyfarth are better defensive players than attacking players & Matamua is a straight oddity- very little metres run but has good defensive stats.

What I'm getting at- these other 2 clubs have targetted defensive middles- all 3 - over impact forwards. Even the Roosters start Leniu off the bench.

Of the Tigers starting middles, the only one I feel confident with defensively is Klemmer. Pole is essentially Leniu, and may have greater impact playing off the bench (Sione Fainu as well). Twal & Seyfarth, while lesser talents, fit the style of the other clubs better. I'm not saying those 2 are the answer. In fact, those 2 should be our Potolo/Wallace/Liam Martin types- the guys you bring in for injuries.

But I am saying that a stronger defensive presence in the other 2 middles spots, would be how I target our forward upgrades. Losing Utoikamanu might open up the chance to bring in at least 1 more defensive cog. Maybe someone like Fa'agutu or Kit Lualili'i is a good fit at #13 if they can play that Ray Stone style game.

For mine, the Tigers need to tighten up the defenders in the middle. Pole off the bench, Sione Fainu off the bench, Twal or Seyfarth off the bench- that offers you the impact. But we need to stifle the opposition more.
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Great insights @The Chad
 
jrtiger said:
no. no more washed up middle forwards bending the cap out of shape. opt for the battler.
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Suggestions?

Corey Horsbrough? Could be an option.
I'm looking at how we can improve our back, losing Paps, and likely Bateman and potentially Stef.

The market is bare and we like the waiting game to see what becomes available... so I'm wondering what else people think would be worth chasing.
 
Demps said:
Suggestions?

Corey Horsbrough? Could be an option.
I'm looking at how we can improve our back, losing Paps, and likely Bateman and potentially Stef.

The market is bare and we like the waiting game to see what becomes available... so I'm wondering what else people think would be worth chasing.
Click to expand...
Horsburgh & Hetherington. Nobody runs through the middle of Horsburgh, Hetherington & Klemmer.

Peter Hola & Pasami Saulo from the Raiders to fill out the squad in the forwards.

Sam Fainu & Seyfarth in the 2nd Row.

Twal, Saulo, Sione Fainu, Hola & Pole with Kit Lualili'i & Chris Fa'agutu off the bench spots.
 
The Chad said:
Focusing solely on the Tigers middle forwards as the area requiring the most radical upgrade:

I've used the Dolphins & Roosters as the types of forward packs that we should try to emulate in order to rebalance our squad. I'm going to remove the Roosters & instead use Canterbury for the following post, simply because they are coming from a similar spot as we are currently.

MIDDLES:
Dolphins- Jarrod Wallace, Jesse Bromwich, Josh Kerr, Mark Nicholls, Tavita Pangai Jnr, Thomas Flegler, Tom Gilbert, Ray Stone, Max Plath

Bulldogs- Chris Patolo, Josh Curran, Kurt Mann, Max King, Liam Knight, Ryan Sutton, Sam Hughes, Zane Tetevano, Paosa Faamusili

Tigers- Stefano Utoikamanu, Fonua Pole, Sione Fainu, David Klemmer, Alex Twal, Alex Seyfarth, Justin Matamua, Jordan Miller, Rueben Porter

I would suggest that, player for player, our middles match up talent-wise with both clubs. Where I think there IS a difference, however, is in who plays off the bench for impact & who are the go-to guys.

If FIT- the Dolphins starters are Bromwich, Flegler & Gilbert. None of these guys are particularly spectacular at run metres, but all are committed defenders with very high tackle completions. With Flegler & Gilbert OUT, Ray Stone has come in & he is also a committed defender. Kerr & Nicholls play their role, particularly off the bench. These 2 are better runners of the ball, more guys that are known for their hit-ups. Pangai Jnr is only a recent add, and he's another impact runner (playing as a starter due to injuries). Plath & Wallace are ALSO committed defenders with very little real impact as runners.


The Bulldogs start Hughes, Max King & Curren/Mann. Again- none of these guys are overly dominant runners of the ball, but all are hard workers with excellent defensive numbers. Patolo, Morrin & Curren/Mann are generally off the bench- again, none offering particularly damaging attack, but significant defensive abilities.

The Tigers start Utoikamanu, Pole & Klemmer most often. Twal, Seyfarth, Sione Fainu & Matamua have all contributed extensively through the season. Now, Pole is a good runner of the ball, but his defence is scratchy. Utoikamanu & Klemmer are decent defenders, but Utoikamanu is definitely known for his attacking ability. Sione Fainu rivals Pole in defence. Twal & Seyfarth are better defensive players than attacking players & Matamua is a straight oddity- very little metres run but has good defensive stats.

What I'm getting at- these other 2 clubs have targetted defensive middles- all 3 - over impact forwards. Even the Roosters start Leniu off the bench.

Of the Tigers starting middles, the only one I feel confident with defensively is Klemmer. Pole is essentially Leniu, and may have greater impact playing off the bench (Sione Fainu as well). Twal & Seyfarth, while lesser talents, fit the style of the other clubs better. I'm not saying those 2 are the answer. In fact, those 2 should be our Potolo/Wallace/Liam Martin types- the guys you bring in for injuries.

But I am saying that a stronger defensive presence in the other 2 middles spots, would be how I target our forward upgrades. Losing Utoikamanu might open up the chance to bring in at least 1 more defensive cog. Maybe someone like Fa'agutu or Kit Lualili'i is a good fit at #13 if they can play that Ray Stone style game.

For mine, the Tigers need to tighten up the defenders in the middle. Pole off the bench, Sione Fainu off the bench, Twal or Seyfarth off the bench- that offers you the impact. But we need to stifle the opposition more.
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Bryan Fletcher on SEN yesterday suggested it’s more to do with our back 3 not contributing well enough than it is our middle forwards under performing.
I wouldn’t say Fletcher is a rugby league genius, but being in and around the game he would have a fair idea and I think he is close to the mark with these comments.
Think back to before Junior Tupou got injured, we were highly competitive in every game, looked good in victories over the Sharks and Eels and not once were our forwards dominated by the opposing team.
The fact we don’t have anyone else who can assist the forwards like he can has really hurt us and the combination of our back 3 we have had since have not stepped up and done the job required.
 
The Chad said:
Horsburgh & Hetherington. Nobody runs through the middle of Horsburgh, Hetherington & Klemmer.

Peter Hola & Pasami Saulo from the Raiders to fill out the squad in the forwards.

Sam Fainu & Seyfarth in the 2nd Row.

Twal, Saulo, Sione Fainu, Hola & Pole with Kit Lualili'i & Chris Fa'agutu off the bench spots.
Click to expand...
Agree with Horsburgh and Hetherington. Tough and won’t cost too much. I would expect to get them both (combined) for less than the $800k we have offered Stef.

I know they both have anger issues but they are the only realistically obtainable targets that excite me in any way.

It’s going to be hard for us to attract talent without paying too much.
 
Vicious said:
Bryan Fletcher on SEN yesterday suggested it’s more to do with our back 3 not contributing well enough than it is our middle forwards under performing.
I wouldn’t say Fletcher is a rugby league genius, but being in and around the game he would have a fair idea and I think he is close to the mark with these comments.
Think back to before Junior Tupou got injured, we were highly competitive in every game, looked good in victories over the Sharks and Eels and not once were our forwards dominated by the opposing team.
The fact we don’t have anyone else who can assist the forwards like he can has really hurt us and the combination of our back 3 we gave had since have not stepped up and done the job required.
Click to expand...
I think Fletcher is a lot smarter than given credit for.

Turuva is an under appreciated signing. That other wing spot still offers me headaches looking at next season. If Charlie Staines could be CHALLENGED by someone like Tesi Niu, who is a harder runner, I'd be a lot happier.
 
Vicious said:
Bryan Fletcher on SEN yesterday suggested it’s more to do with our back 3 not contributing well enough than it is our middle forwards under performing.
I wouldn’t say Fletcher is a rugby league genius, but being in and around the game he would have a fair idea and I think he is close to the mark with these comments.
Think back to before Junior Tupou got injured, we were highly competitive in every game, looked good in victories over the Sharks and Eels and not once were our forwards dominated by the opposing team.
The fact we don’t have anyone else who can assist the forwards like he can has really hurt us and the combination of our back 3 we gave had since have not stepped up and done the job required.
Click to expand...

Junior Topou ? What did he do in those two games? Just because they won them ..doesn’t mean it was due to him …
 
The Chad said:
I think Fletcher is a lot smarter than given credit for.

Turuva is an under appreciated signing. That other wing spot still offers me headaches looking at next season. If Charlie Staines could be CHALLENGED by someone like Tesi Niu, who is a harder runner, I'd be a lot happier.
Click to expand...
I think it’s important that Fketcher mentioned the back 3, we seem to only look at and scrutinise the wingers.
 
Wiz said:
Agree with Horsburgh and Hetherington. Tough and won’t cost too much. I would expect to get them both (combined) for less than the $800k we have offered Stef.

I know they both have anger issues but they are the only realistically obtainable targets that excite me in any way.

It’s going to be hard for us to attract talent without paying too much.
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We have proven we can't outskill the opposition.

We get beaten up & bullied far too often.

Anger issues or not- the Roosters find ways to deal with JWH, Collins & Radley. I don't for a minute think that Horsburgh, Hetherington, Seyfarth or Klemmer are stud footballers at this stage of their careers. But, they won't get bullied. Should allow the likes of Pole & Sione Fainu to come on & play a bit more of that Leniu role.
 
Tom Shines said:
Junior Topou ? What did he do in those two games? Just because they won them ..doesn’t mean it was due to him …
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He was immense against the Sharks, every carry was strong and got us rolling out of our danger zone allowing the forwards to have rest, not constantly back tracking 60-70 metres and having to still do the bullicking work.
If the back 3 including the fullback are not ripping in and getting their team rolling out of the danger zone, the forwards are working much harder, playing under much more fatigue and have less impact because of it.
I would take it a step further and say it’s the back 5’s responsibility, Fletcher mentioned the back 3.
 
Vicious said:
He was immense against the Sharks, every carry was strong and got us rolling out of our danger zone allowing the forwards to have rest, not constantly back tracking 60-70 metres and having to still do the bullicking work.
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The Sharks were terrible in that game … they beat themselves …
 
The Chad said:
More run metres than the other wingers in those games, so there's that I guess...
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You value that stat a lot more than I do…

A lot of wingers meters come from returning kicks …. Because he has the proverbial “hands like feet “.. the opposition directs all the kicks his way hoping he will drop a couple…i think he did from memory ,,,Do you have the stats on how many handling errors he made ?
 
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