OFFICIAL Pathways - KOE General Discussion

[balmain boy]

Only harsh if not judging him as a top 30 contracted player who should be pushing hard for a regular NRL position.
We have 3 almost identical types of players in Matamua, Kit and Faagatu. All 3 are top 30 contracted for next season and based on this season it’s only really Faagatu who looks like he could possibly step up and make a positive impact at NRL level, albeit he is playing Flegg which is a level below the other 2.
I’m wondering if Matamua can add another strong ti his bow by playing a bit of dummy half to make him a more valuable NRL bench option.

I personally think Matamua would be the one to go first, but yes none of Kit or Faagutu should be top 30 yet. Both should be development players still. But we're judging Chris having played and stood out in Flegg whereas Kit has been playing up a grade and struggling. Why play him up if he's struggling to make it work? Drop him back to flegg, give him confidence, then push him back up later in the season should have been the plan.
Same with Tumeth, if he was on a lower grade contract no one would be bothered by his performances. He may be a late bloomer, and i'm happy for him to stick around another year or two, but just not in the top30.

 

[Vicious]

I personally think Matamua would be the one to go first, but yes none of Kit or Faagutu should be top 30 yet. Both should be development players still. But we're judging Chris having played and stood out in Flegg whereas Kit has been playing up a grade and struggling. Why play him up if he's struggling to make it work? Drop him back to flegg, give him confidence, then push him back up later in the season should have been the plan.
Same with Tumeth, if he was on a lower grade contract no one would be bothered by his performances. He may be a late bloomer, and i'm happy for him to stick around another year or two, but just not in the top30.

I know Matamua is 2 years older, but his overall NSW Cup performances this season have been far superior to Kit.

 

[BlackWhiteGold]

I know Matamua is 2 years older, but his overall NSW Cup performances this season have been far superior to Kit.

He's made some good yardage when he has been focused on taking runs rather than linking. He just hasn't torn a game apart yet.

However I'd give him another season with focused areas to work on in the off/pre-season (especially in defence, line speed & effort areas) and give him every chance in '25.

Like many he's got ability, just lacks that 'eye of the tiger' mongrel!

 

[balmain boy]

I know Matamua is 2 years older, but his overall NSW Cup performances this season have been far superior to Kit.

As they should be. He's of the age where he should be playing Cup and doing well. Kit should be in Flegg the entire season. Pushing him too hard too soon will be highly negative for his career. Rather than saying look at him dominate at flegg level, people are instead doubting his ability and potential because he's playing at a level that he's not ready for.
Promotions need to be earned, not handed on a silver platter.

 

[Vicious]

As they should be. He's of the age where he should be playing Cup and doing well. Kit should be in Flegg the entire season. Pushing him too hard too soon will be highly negative for his career. Rather than saying look at him dominate at flegg level, people are instead doubting his ability and potential because he's playing at a level that he's not ready for.
Promotions need to be earned, not handed on a silver platter.

And top 30 contracts should only be given to players who are stands outs when playing NSW Cup or better.
There is the odd exception where you have to take a gamble such as the case with Galvin and it might happen again with Makasini and Lsrge, but these players have clearly demonstrated elite qualities during their time in the age restricted grades.

 

[Tiger_Fanatic3]

Knocked off Manly in both grades

Who could be more prouder

 

[boonboon]

I know Matamua is 2 years older, but his overall NSW Cup performances this season have been far superior to Kit.

Funny thing is Matamua could still have played Flegg this year. If he had been coming through and was playing Flegg he would be the next superstar in everyone's eyes

 

[batboy]

Funny thing is Matamua could still have played Flegg this year. If he had been coming through and was playing Flegg he would be the next superstar in everyone's eyes

Plenty of young forwards / middles in the NRL doing a better job than those 2 are doing in Ressies.
My feeling is there's too many of them for that position, And they're all elevated more than they should be.
If he was still playing Flegg, Matamua may well be the next superstar - But he wouldn't have an NRL contract, making NRL Money... Taking an NRL Players spot. And you're right - No one would be caring or
measuring his value for money.

Problem is,
We have Kit, Matamua, Chris and the likes of Tumeth and Sukkar all with a Roster spot
and getting next to no value from them, Even in lower grades....
And to be fair, It's been called Plenty.
People were bigging up Tumeth - his work rate and Junior Rep career very early on - Barely been sighted since.

Our balance is skewed....
Panthers have forwards like Peachey and Garner in reserve grade,
Ours are unproven kids for the most part.

 

[BAGNF05]

Younger but bigger bro, seems to have better hands!!!

Is he also on an eight year exploratory contract where we work out in year eight he doesn’t understand any position?

 

[Tiger in boots 🐅]

Plenty of young forwards / middles in the NRL doing a better job than those 2 are doing in Ressies.
My feeling is there's too many of them for that position, And they're all elevated more than they should be.
If he was still playing Flegg, Matamua may well be the next superstar - But he wouldn't have an NRL contract, making NRL Money... Taking an NRL Players spot. And you're right - No one would be caring or
measuring his value for money.

Problem is,
We have Kit, Matamua, Chris and the likes of Tumeth and Sukkar all with a Roster spot
and getting next to no value from them, Even in lower grades....
And to be fair, It's been called Plenty.
People were bigging up Tumeth - his work rate and Junior Rep career very early on - Barely been sighted since.

Our balance is skewed....
Panthers have forwards like Peachey and Garner in reserve grade,
Ours are unproven kids for the most part.

Bat boy, What bloody training and value has the club provided these young boys coming through the ranks. These boys were dominating their age groups coming through the system. Any other club would have put effort and a rigorous regime around their young players coming through and got them ready. These boys would thrive in any other system. STOP spreading your shit on this forum about these young players and if you can’t add value then go get….

The only person not adding value is you!!! I’m very happy to meet with you in person and see if we can put our heads together and come up with ways to actually add value to these young players giving it a go. These are our juniors and the system needs to believe in them and get them ready. Buying players is not the long term solution for this club if we want to succeed. Buying players means we don’t have faith in the system and it needs an overhaul of the people running it.

 

[BAGNF05]

Bat boy, What bloody training and value has the club provided these young boys coming through the ranks. These boys were dominating their age groups coming through the system. Any other club would have put effort and a rigorous regime around their young players coming through and got them ready. These boys would thrive in any other system. STOP spreading your shit on this forum about these young players and if you can’t add value then go get….

The only person not adding value is you!!! I’m very happy to meet with you in person and see if we can put our heads together and come up with ways to actually add value to these young players giving it a go. These are our juniors and the system needs to believe in them and get them ready. Buying players is not the long term solution for this club if we want to succeed. Buying players means we don’t have faith in the system and it needs an overhaul of the people running it.

Interested in your take.

Didn’t Pascoe build us a CoE? Aren’t the kids allowed to use it?

Since the dawn of rugby league the best kids have had to earn a gig in grade, by working hard & playing well. Nothing is gifted.

Are you seeing something at the club that isn’t working?

 

[Tiger in boots 🐅]

Interested in your take.

Didn’t Pascoe build us a CoE? Aren’t the kids allowed to use it?

Since the dawn of rugby league the best kids have had to earn a gig in grade, by working hard & playing well. Nothing is gifted.

Are you seeing something at the club that isn’t working?

Absolutely seeing things not working and the results speak for them self. No one is saying don’t work for it, thats BAU…..but there needs to be a system that develops players to be ready. I don’t want to be stating the obvious but look at: Melbourne, Penrith, Roosters, bulldogs, Manly, Sharks….they are doing something right and maybe we should take note and do similar. BTW, never noticed any juniors using the CoE, has anyone?

 

[BAGNF05]

Absolutely seeing things not working and the results speak for them self. No one is saying don’t work for it, thats BAU…..but there needs to be a system that develops players to be ready. I don’t want to be stating the obvious but look at: Melbourne, Penrith, Roosters, bulldogs, Manly, Sharks….they are doing something right and maybe we should take note and do similar. BTW, never noticed any juniors using the CoE, has anyone?

You could argue that 11 debutants this year is the pathways system working, most of those guys have held their gloves up too.

The next nearest club has had 6 debutants. Obviously thats also a reflection of their roster quality though.

First grade results will take some time for us.

Always interested to hear from people who seem to be close to the coal face.

 

[Tiger in boots 🐅]

You could argue that 11 debutants this year is the pathways system working, most of those guys have held their gloves up too.

The next nearest club has had 6 debutants. Obviously thats also a reflection of their roster quality though.

First grade results will take some time for us.

Always interested to hear from people who seem to be close to the coal face.

Playing one or two NRL games does not mean the system is working!

 

[BAGNF05]

Playing one or two NRL games does not mean the system is working!

You can only give them an opportunity and then the rest is up to the kid.

I guess you could argue some of them were given a chance ahead of time which is true. I’d hope those kids then go back and further hone their learnings in twos & Flegg rather than kick stones.

I’m not sure what’s happening behind the scenes so it’s hard to know whether that’s happening.

 

[Wiz]

The only reason there’s been so many debuting is because first grade has been so bad. A lot or most of these debutons are not first grade ready. Luke L can’t catch and shouldn’t be playing first grade just yet (granted he is a good ball runner). Jordan Miller wasn’t ready for first grade. Kit L (debuted last round last year, I know) is definitely not ready for first grade. The 28yo winger Solimona wouldn’t have played first grade at any other club and shouldn’t be re-signed. I could go on. It’s no use saying Luke L is only and 18 and has done well. I suppose he has done well for an 18yo but the comparison point needs to be a competent first grade winger. He is not that yet. Look at Sam Stonestreet for the Sharks yesterday. He’s played a heap of reserve grade where he’s scored a heap of tries. Yesterday was, I think, his fourth first grade game and he bagged a double and looked like a first grade winger i.e. strong in all facets with no glaring weaknesses. We are not debuting these types of players.

 

[BAGNF05]

The only reason there’s been so many debuting is because first grade has been so bad. A lot or most of these debutons are not first grade ready. Luke L can’t catch and shouldn’t be playing first grade just yet (granted he is a good ball runner). Jordan Miller wasn’t ready for first grade. Kit L (debuted last round last year, I know) is definitely not ready for first grade. The 28yo winger Solimona wouldn’t have played first grade at any other club and shouldn’t be re-signed. I could go on. It’s no use saying Luke L is only and 18 and has done well. I suppose he has done well for an 18yo but the comparison point needs to be a competent first grade winger. He is not that yet. Look at Sam Stonestreet for the Sharks yesterday. He’s played a heap of reserve grade where he’s scored a heap of tries. Yesterday was, I think, his fourth first grade game and he bagged a double and looked like a first grade winger i.e. strong in all facets with no glaring weaknesses. We are not debuting these types of players.

Agree with that take and it’s a reflection of a decade of recruitment and retention failures. I’d rather watch kids with promise lose than over the hill has beens.

I believe criticism of Luke L is rough, he is tough and a player of the future. Handling errors are easily fixed (for most players).

 

[Wiz]

Agree with that take and it’s a reflection of a decade of recruitment and retention failures. I’d rather watch kids with promise lose than over the hill has beens.

I believe criticism of Luke L is rough, he is tough and a player of the future. Handling errors are easily fixed (for most players).

Agree, no point persisting with old hands you know aren’t good enough.

I did use the word “yet” with Luke L. All things considered he’s done well, but imo not yet a first grade standard winger. No doubt he’ll be better for the experience. Geez, we all want these young blokes to succeed. We’ve certainly waited long enough for success.

 

[Bellend]

As point out before the coaching of our lower grades players leaves a lot to be desired for. There obviously is no real consistent skills training been done otherwise you would be seeing players practicing there tackling skills or kickers practicing day in and day out. There are a quiet of number of promising players in the lower grades, but the structures are not there.

 

[Needaname]

And top 30 contracts should only be given to players who are stands outs when playing NSW Cup or better.
There is the odd exception where you have to take a gamble such as the case with Galvin and it might happen again with Makasini and Lsrge, but these players have clearly demonstrated elite qualities during their time in the age restricted grades.

And I think that’s what is happening. With the exception of Tumeth (stuck in Flegg) and Mason who has been called all the way up on a T&T most of the top 30 boys are in Cup whereas the dev boys / future t30 are remaining in Flegg. That’s why there is questions about how we are playing Faagatu but he is sitting in the right spot for development.