David Klemmer #264

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I don't think people get it.

Klemmer is here to stay and offers punch.

All 2024 he was a starting Prop with us. But if you decide to start someone else, i.e. Hunt and Pole... That's fine.

You will still have at least 4 props in the side and at least 1-2 in the reserve grade.

Argue all you want if Klemmer is better or worse then say Pole or Seyfarth. But if they are better (I don't think so) and they start at 8-10, you will still have 1-2 bench props.

Add Hunt, May.. You still want a guy like Klemmer around because he covers for the usual prop injuries and gives you solid depth. Plus he imparts experience and hardens up the training.


I remember 2022. Not only did we come last, but we were walked all over. Without a solid pack that can actually physically take the hitups, we are so gone.

No idea why people are thinking of punting a first grade prop, sponsoring at least 400k of his contract for another team to take him. I get offloading Sullivan and Bateman, they do nothing for the team. Don't care if Klemmer is the 6th best prop the club has, keep him so it's him and not someone worse who is the 6th bench prop.
 
I don't think people get it.

Klemmer is here to stay and offers punch.

All 2024 he was a starting Prop with us. But if you decide to start someone else, i.e. Hunt and Pole... That's fine.

You will still have at least 4 props in the side and at least 1-2 in the reserve grade.

Argue all you want if Klemmer is better or worse then say Pole or Seyfarth. But if they are better (I don't think so) and they start at 8-10, you will still have 1-2 bench props.

Add Hunt, May.. You still want a guy like Klemmer around because he covers for the usual prop injuries and gives you solid depth. Plus he imparts experience and hardens up the training.


I remember 2022. Not only did we come last, but we were walked all over. Without a solid pack that can actually physically take the hitups, we are so gone.

No idea why people are thinking of punting a first grade prop, sponsoring at least 400k of his contract for another team to take him. I get offloading Sullivan and Bateman, they do nothing for the team. Don't care if Klemmer is the 6th best prop the club has, keep him so it's him and not someone worse who is the 6th bench prop.
It’s basically a contract year for him too. If we don’t take up the option then he needs to sell himself. I reckon having a couple of men as props beside him instead of a mighty boy, will help him. Add in a couple of decent wingers starting the sets, and a decent spine to ice the sets and he and the whole team will find it easier to play better footy.
 
I don't think people get it.

Klemmer is here to stay and offers punch.

All 2024 he was a starting Prop with us. But if you decide to start someone else, i.e. Hunt and Pole... That's fine.

You will still have at least 4 props in the side and at least 1-2 in the reserve grade.

Argue all you want if Klemmer is better or worse then say Pole or Seyfarth. But if they are better (I don't think so) and they start at 8-10, you will still have 1-2 bench props.

Add Hunt, May.. You still want a guy like Klemmer around because he covers for the usual prop injuries and gives you solid depth. Plus he imparts experience and hardens up the training.


I remember 2022. Not only did we come last, but we were walked all over. Without a solid pack that can actually physically take the hitups, we are so gone.

No idea why people are thinking of punting a first grade prop, sponsoring at least 400k of his contract for another team to take him. I get offloading Sullivan and Bateman, they do nothing for the team. Don't care if Klemmer is the 6th best prop the club has, keep him so it's him and not someone worse who is the 6th bench prop.

You lost me saying Klemmer offers punch. He offers zero punch. He makes his tackles (softly), gets ok yards (softly), that's it.
 
He's fine. He's a war horse. We need experience around our very young squad. That has value in the medium term beyond just what happens in 2025. Some of our young forwards need to learn not to wig out after getting belted by Canberra in freezing cold Monday night game, (or similar). He's been about as good as I expected him to be. If he's good enough he'll play enough games.
 
He's fine. He's a war horse. We need experience around our very young squad. That has value in the medium term beyond just what happens in 2025. Some of our young forwards need to learn not to wig out after getting belted by Canberra in freezing cold Monday night game, (or similar). He's been about as good as I expected him to be. If he's good enough he'll play enough games.
IMO there are a lot of variables to be sorted through before the club determines its stance on Klemmer's future in 2026.

1 his contracted salary for 2026
2 his form early in the season
3 what Pole decides to do
4 the form of our other backup middles in Twal, Seyfarth Johannssen, Fainu
5 Richo's ongoing relationship with Klem's manager Isaac Moses

Yes his experience could be beneficial but if he shows more signs that age is catching up with him, it will be very interesting what Benji does around Rounds 10-12.
 
Klemmer situation is interesting. Assuming we pick 4 props each game Pole, Hunt, May, Twal are all better players. I don’t believe anyone believes Klemmer in 2026 on big money is happening. He won’t play the 14 games because of his contract.
 
Klemmer situation is interesting. Assuming we pick 4 props each game Pole, Hunt, May, Twal are all better players. I don’t believe anyone believes Klemmer in 2026 on big money is happening. He won’t play the 14 games because of his contract.
I don't get what you are saying. Sure Klemmer 2026 won't be on 650k that he is on, Bigg-ish money.
Based on performance 300-350k come 2026??

But what do you mean "he wont' play the 14 games because of his contract?" You mean Benji will starve him of games/time because he is on his way out? ... well that makes sense.
 
I did a comparison of stats from Zero tackle of our front rowers.

1732012937652.png


Terrell May is WAY infront of Everyone. He could drop 20% and still be our best prop next year.

Klem kinda folds into the middle of our prop performance. Does better with Runs and Run meters, Tackles are lower then I imagined or remembered. Errors were low, but those stats don't show his slow play the ball which is an issue. His run and run meters are clearly above our team.

Pole would be a clear NR2 if his Missed Tackles wasn't so high. Typical tiger discipline.

Seyfarth is our hardest worker (bar May) and he offers dynamic play in attack.

Twal's stats so scream Bench prop. ...

Hunt is clearly a big concern as his Missed tackles are High, but his minutes have been so limited. He is a real "impact" player and he will improve. But honestly looking at the above I wouldn't be starting him and I wouldn't even guarantee him a place in the 17.


Just for comparison (and it's a little unfair)
Bateman's only good stat is his offloads. Every other aspect of his game is Tepid/weak. It's why I say Punt Bateman, because he isn't adding anything to the team. Klemmer however adds something, it means people have to play better then him to play in the team.
 
I did a comparison of stats from Zero tackle of our front rowers.

View attachment 17580


Terrell May is WAY infront of Everyone. He could drop 20% and still be our best prop next year.

Klem kinda folds into the middle of our prop performance. Does better with Runs and Run meters, Tackles are lower then I imagined or remembered. Errors were low, but those stats don't show his slow play the ball which is an issue. His run and run meters are clearly above our team.

Pole would be a clear NR2 if his Missed Tackles wasn't so high. Typical tiger discipline.

Seyfarth is our hardest worker (bar May) and he offers dynamic play in attack.

Twal's stats so scream Bench prop. ...

Hunt is clearly a big concern as his Missed tackles are High, but his minutes have been so limited. He is a real "impact" player and he will improve. But honestly looking at the above I wouldn't be starting him and I wouldn't even guarantee him a place in the 17.


Just for comparison (and it's a little unfair)
Bateman's only good stat is his offloads. Every other aspect of his game is Tepid/weak. It's why I say Punt Bateman, because he isn't adding anything to the team. Klemmer however adds something, it means people have to play better then him to play in the team.

Can you measure the performance of a forward in complete isolation? Would Klemmer have identical stats to his WT stats if he was playing next to JWH and co at the Roosters every week and was getting more hit ups over the advantage line and working through less raw defensive work? Factor in how a forwards stats are perhaps effected by games where other in his team players are making insane handling errors, losing possession or dealing with sin bins.

Furthermore, let's say Bateman's good stat is his offloads but at the same time he threw an awful offload attempt that gave a game away against Souths and subsequently blew up in sheds to the extent he had to be shipped out off on loan. Ok stats tell us he made a lot of offloads, but is that the full picture, and did those offloads (positively) change any situations for us with a game in the balance?

Missed tackles stats miss a lot of context as well. What happened in the previous play?, what is the overall situation in the set?, and do these missed tackles lead to a line break or dangerous attacking situation for your opponent? Half the time you miss a tackle you're actually getting rolled from something that screwed up 2 hits ago. Did the missed tackle change the situation of a match our was the team already 50 points ahead either way? What are the missed tackle stats when we are in the lead or getting smashed by 30 points?

I'm fascinated by sports stats, but what's unique about Rugby League, is that the rules change so much and the game is so physical, data analysts have really yet to find anything remotely close to the modeling you see in Soccer today. (xT), (xG), value models based on all the events and situations that happen in a game. You can read what some smart people have tried to do with Rugby league, but again the rules and tactics change so much and so often that modelling and measuring is practically impossible.

Of course there ARE stats, but IMO you can't accurately measure how good a forward is in comparison to others from other sides just by counting up the raw stats up given online. You'd need to really refine and set some conditions for what you're measuring. If anything, you want to find things that are hidden by the raw stats. e.g Liverpool bought Andy Robertson for only 8 mil after playing for a relegated team that conceded over 80 goals in a season. They didn't just measure his passes in the sense of were they successful or not, but what happened after his passes. Liverpool also have ways to measure if a player has been "Unlucky" or "Close" in certain situations too.

Not saying anything is 'wrong', just offering my opinion and some food for thought.
 
Can you measure the performance of a forward in complete isolation? Would Klemmer have identical stats to his WT stats if he was playing next to JWH and co at the Roosters every week and was getting more hit ups over the advantage line and working through less raw defensive work? Factor in how a forwards stats are perhaps effected by games where other in his team players are making insane handling errors, losing possession or dealing with sin bins.

Furthermore, let's say Bateman's good stat is his offloads but at the same time he threw an awful offload attempt that gave a game away against Souths and subsequently blew up in sheds to the extent he had to be shipped out off on loan. Ok stats tell us he made a lot of offloads, but is that the full picture, and did those offloads (positively) change any situations for us with a game in the balance?

Missed tackles stats miss a lot of context as well. What happened in the previous play?, what is the overall situation in the set?, and do these missed tackles lead to a line break or dangerous attacking situation for your opponent? Half the time you miss a tackle you're actually getting rolled from something that screwed up 2 hits ago. Did the missed tackle change the situation of a match our was the team already 50 points ahead either way? What are the missed tackle stats when we are in the lead or getting smashed by 30 points?

I'm fascinated by sports stats, but what's unique about Rugby League, is that the rules change so much and the game is so physical, data analysts have really yet to find anything remotely close to the modeling you see in Soccer today. (xT), (xG), value models based on all the events and situations that happen in a game. You can read what some smart people have tried to do with Rugby league, but again the rules and tactics change so much and so often that modelling and measuring is practically impossible.

Of course there ARE stats, but IMO you can't accurately measure how good a forward is in comparison to others from other sides just by counting up the raw stats up given online. You'd need to really refine and set some conditions for what you're measuring. If anything, you want to find things that are hidden by the raw stats. e.g Liverpool bought Andy Robertson for only 8 mil after playing for a relegated team that conceded over 80 goals in a season. They didn't just measure his passes in the sense of were they successful or not, but what happened after his passes. Liverpool also have ways to measure if a player has been "Unlucky" or "Close" in certain situations too.

Not saying anything is 'wrong', just offering my opinion and some food for thought.
I love looking into the stats more than most.
The two stats that mattered the most to me last season was
1. the amount of sin bins we received - absolute self sabotage of a season,
2. the amount of points that were scored against our defence - worst in our 25 year history.
Our discipline and our defence were not elite NRL level quality.
They were an embarrassment.
This needs to change.
 
I love looking into the stats more than most.
The two stats that mattered the most to me last season was
1. the amount of sin bins we received - absolute self sabotage of a season,
2. the amount of points that were scored against our defence - worst in our 25 year history.
Our discipline and our defence were not elite NRL level quality.
They were an embarrassment.
This needs to change.
I love stats too.

But I am going to disagree on 1. We needed to threaten a little. Yes we got binned too much and Penrith/Storm/etc did not. We needed to see some fire in the team and we got it. Happy to fine tune that.

2. DEFENSE, OMG YES.
Pole and Papallii really stand out for so many missed tackles. Yet we can cope with a miss in the middle occasionally. It's the Center/Wing's that if they miss a tackle, a fast player gets through and often scores.

I wish they showed "missed tackles leading to a try" as IMHO that is one of the most imporant stats. Along with "opposing tries on players side of field".
Defense is a team effort, us chopping and changing players like we do means we get less "Gel". Good defensive teams know which players they can trust, which they can't, when someone needs support and when someone can handle the player by themselves.
Were nowhere near that.

I really want to know why Nathan Cayless failed to improve our defense and why we went backwards with him. Madge rated him highly, but we never saw the results on the field. I suspect Cayless tried to harden up a very soft forward pack, but did nothing with the backs as we were swiss cheese under Madge.

We should still have some forward impact with May, but need to get the coordination with our backline. Turuva and Skelton are new and will take awhile to work themselves out.
 
I love looking into the stats more than most.
The two stats that mattered the most to me last season was
1. the amount of sin bins we received - absolute self sabotage of a season,
2. the amount of points that were scored against our defence - worst in our 25 year history.
Our discipline and our defence were not elite NRL level quality.
They were an embarrassment.
This needs to change.
Surely our recruiting this year has tightened up our middle. And Luai at half has tightened up at least one edge.
 
I love stats too.

But I am going to disagree on 1. We needed to threaten a little. Yes we got binned too much and Penrith/Storm/etc did not. We needed to see some fire in the team and we got it. Happy to fine tune that.

2. DEFENSE, OMG YES.
Pole and Papallii really stand out for so many missed tackles. Yet we can cope with a miss in the middle occasionally. It's the Center/Wing's that if they miss a tackle, a fast player gets through and often scores.

I wish they showed "missed tackles leading to a try" as IMHO that is one of the most imporant stats. Along with "opposing tries on players side of field".
Defense is a team effort, us chopping and changing players like we do means we get less "Gel". Good defensive teams know which players they can trust, which they can't, when someone needs support and when someone can handle the player by themselves.
Were nowhere near that.

I really want to know why Nathan Cayless failed to improve our defense and why we went backwards with him. Madge rated him highly, but we never saw the results on the field. I suspect Cayless tried to harden up a very soft forward pack, but did nothing with the backs as we were swiss cheese under Madge.

We should still have some forward impact with May, but need to get the coordination with our backline. Turuva and Skelton are new and will take awhile to work themselves out.
There is a try causes stat. Might be in the Fox sports lab. Might give you what you are after.
 
I love looking into the stats more than most.
The two stats that mattered the most to me last season was
1. the amount of sin bins we received - absolute self sabotage of a season,
2. the amount of points that were scored against our defence - worst in our 25 year history.
Our discipline and our defence were not elite NRL level quality.
They were an embarrassment.
This needs to change.
Champion @Tucker, you can never fault a stats man! 😉

Added to that is our wasted goal kicking misses.

I would say that our disastrous defense stats highlight the disjointed team selections with so many players being played "up" a grade or two, before their time.

It is so hard loving this team from a pure win/loss point, in that I'm sure the players wearing our jersey want to win, but sometimes the quality of the cattle is easily shaded by the more settled teams.
Seemingly, the Crocodile Roll recruitment pays off and we start to climb that ladder, sooner than later.
 

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