Signings, Suggestions & Rumours Discussion

I don't understand this forum sometimes. We have people who constantly complain about the club not being patient with young guys and lack of development.

Then those same exact people want players like Samuela, To'a etc dropped or moved after a few quiet performances... Young players are going to be inconsistent, especially in a squad where personnel are constantly changing. Not to mention injuries and the ware and tear of a long season. It takes young players time to adapt physically and mentally to the rigours of the NRL.
 
Jolls said:
I expect that McDonnell and Sheens were playing a game of sign as many as you can as cheap as you can and hope a couple come good. I expect this was because there was nothing to aspire to and this was a method to try to stabilse the sinking ship. Despite the outcome of Sheens' second coming, I have no doubt that he had good intentions and thought that the approach was the right one.

It would be brilliant if we could be in a simialr position as the Warriors are with Clearly 2.0. Unfortunately, we are missing a key ingredient. I think Benji and Richo are trying to build it - but until we have something to aspire to it is very hard to have players lined up willing to bide their time in Ressies to develop. Without the desire to play for "this club" they won't wait. TDS apparently loved the club - but him not willing to wait and continue his development is an example of the problem (it may also be an indictment of the current generation too).

Sustained success is what we need. To be considered a top 4 club is a great strategic goal but cycling through permiership winning windows while remaining in the top 8 is what is required.
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Only concern I have Jolls atm is Sheens and McDonald were amazing at getting good kids into our pathway system. I'm not up to date in all honesty but can't remember the last good junior Richo has brought in.
 
Tom Shines said:
Improvement in young players is not necessarily linear … we’re their problems last season with his speed and agility?

For a 20 yr old in a wooden spoon team to play in his first games at even an “average “ level is remarkable

It’s way too early to be giving up on him yet at this position … this time last year good judges were saying he had an Origin ceiling
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As far as were there problems with speed and agility last year? Yes. He was often beaten in defence with limited lateral movement. As I said before led the comp for try causes last year.

It's not about giving up on him as a 2nd row. I still believe he will be a very good backrower if he is kept there. I just don't think that is his best position long term. It might be where we need him short term or even the next couple of years. But given we (hopefully) are looking to recruit forwards, if a good backrow option becomes available id be happy to move him in. Similarly if there are good middles and no backrowers available im not going to kick up a stink about him not being moved in this early in his career either, even if I think he will eventually end up there.
 
BlackWhiteGold said:
In hindsight now, the period 2020 - 2024 has been an absolute clusterfu*k for the club. A PhD student should do their doctorate on how not to run an elite sporting team based on the WT over this period. And Lee, the HBG & Justin should hang their heads in shame for many of their key decisions in this period.

Whilst many of us heralded the appointment of Sheens after Madge wore out the playing group led by sooks like Joey Leulia & Nofa, I for one clenched my teeth when vision emerged of Sheens returning to Concord into the old demountable footy offices flanked by his best mate Warren McDonnell. Unfortunately nostalgia got the better of common sense and we've paid the price.

I cannot think of one good thing McDonnell did for the club in his latest tenure. Anyone?
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Now, really, didn’t Fails from Tigerclowns sum it up for you in 22?
 
Spacecub said:
Unfortunately benji wants to fill our forward pack with Polynesians, mostly big bodies, apart from the rare exception are soft we need more hard nutcase country boys, Canberra have Hudson young, Horsbourgh Penrith have yeo Martin, Sorenson, chooks have Radley, Lindsay, Collins, Angus C the closest we have to that is seyfart
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There have been plenty of country boys that don't have that hard edge you are referring to. I don't think basing output and skill level on race or where you were raised is relevant. It's just a lazy argument. I do however agree we need a couple of hard forwards though, don't really care about their race or background. Don't forget that Benji was going hard for Horsborough and hetherington...neither look Polynesian to me.
 
Kelce68 said:
In the way that they signed up the likes of Webster-Mansfield, Laulili'i, Miller, Fa'agutu, Tumeth, Matamua, et al, to long-term, Top 30- (or at least dev- ) guaranteed positions long term. The messaging around the likes of TDS and Galvin ought to be brought into questions too as the attitudes upon their arrival on the first grade scene have been called into question a lot lately. You could even work your way into the 2nd tier list of potentials from 2/3 years ago. Johanssen, the other Saukurus, etc.

I've heard from more than one source that they were promising the world to this wave of kids and backed it up with long deals for young players who, for the most part, either won't ever make it or will be in the 1st grade setup way too early.

It has been a contributing, not sole, factor in why our squad has been so far out of whack.
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They also did the same with Brooks Moses and Teddy

When your not a destination club you have to take risk TDS Galvin great young players and last I read 1 in 40 juniors from flegg make it to first grade

What would it be 1 in 1000 for a TDS

And 1 in 10000 for a Galvin

So Sheen's and MacDonald have a very high success rate
 
Kelce68 said:
In the way that they signed up the likes of Webster-Mansfield, Laulili'i, Miller, Fa'agutu, Tumeth, Matamua, et al, to long-term, Top 30- (or at least dev- ) guaranteed positions long term. The messaging around the likes of TDS and Galvin ought to be brought into questions too as the attitudes upon their arrival on the first grade scene have been called into question a lot lately. You could even work your way into the 2nd tier list of potentials from 2/3 years ago. The other Saukurus, Dillon and those other, forgettable names, etc.

I've heard from more than one source that they were promising the world to this wave of kids and backed it up with long deals for young players who, for the most part, either won't ever make it or will be in the 1st grade setup way too early.

It has been a contributing, not sole, factor in why our squad has been so far out of whack.
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Onitoni Large was another not willing to wait behind someone and left as soon as he could. Iv no doubt they were all promised first grade spots in their preferred positions. Also put it down to Isaac Moses intentionally destabilising the place as soon as his mate Sheens was punted.
 
Canadian Club said:
I don't understand this forum sometimes. We have people who constantly complain about the club not being patient with young guys and lack of development.

Then those same exact people want players like Samuela, To'a etc dropped or moved after a few quiet performances... Young players are going to be inconsistent, especially in a squad where personnel are constantly changing. Not to mention injuries and the ware and tear of a long season. It takes young players time to adapt physically and mentally to the rigours of the NRL.
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You just have to learn to ignore the rugby league illiterate.
Wanting Samuela or Starford dropped or moved on just makes them easier to identify.
 
Jolls said:
I agree - we were doing was wrong. We are suffering now from the second and third order effects of decsions made by Sheens. Having said that, we were also building from a very low base and Sheens and MacDonnell no doubt had good intentions. We don't know if they had a plan to transition from their initial strategy, but I would give them the benefit of the doubt.

Richo is taking a much less agressive approach but we won't see the benefits of this for another couple of years.

The point I was trying to make is that we will not be in a postion to develop players properly until we achieve sustained success. At that time there will not be a constant push to move players around and blood juniors. We all want success tomorrow, but the reality is that executing a plan to drag you from three wooden spoons to the top takes time.
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I see us going down the path of filling a top 30 with nrl experienced players at least for the next 2-3 years. Kids will be kept but not put on an immediate pedestal.
 
tigahhh said:
sure but he also throws at least 4 hospital balls to his outside men
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one game where they toweled up Manly who are always either very hot or very cold is not an indicator that the change is a success. Ciraldo paid for Buzz's coffee and probably added a couple of shots of baileys and now Buzz will say anything he wants.
 
Jolls said:
This is the sub system we need to develop as our pathways programme. We need another sub system for coaching. When those are in place the foundations are set and you can build. At the moment we are trying to build on clay.
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This is so true, but let's analyse that for a minute.

If we do that and put in place any other development structure we need, how long will it take? In my estimation, you are looking at 10 years to firstly get it right, then to develop everyone else under you in a consistent manner.

Our fans want Richos head after 18 months. The media takes our success game by game. There is no patience for this and at best we get politician style terms where people expect big changes in a short period, then reload again hoping for a different result.

It remains to be seen how Benjis coaching career will pan out, but he has brought some identity to the club which he can sell to players for the first time in a long time. Some stability as well. To me, it's part of the journey, but I see many things heading in the right general direction despite not getting the results.

Even Penrith struggled with new players in an established and working system this year until they could figure out what was going on. The last 10 years for us have been different systems from different coaches and this year we have a new bunch of players with movement happening within the season. Lots more work to do and time to pass until you can say things are a failure.
 
gregjm87 said:
As far as were there problems with speed and agility last year? Yes. He was often beaten in defence with limited lateral movement. As I said before led the comp for try causes last year.

It's not about giving up on him as a 2nd row. I still believe he will be a very good backrower if he is kept there. I just don't think that is his best position long term. It might be where we need him short term or even the next couple of years. But given we (hopefully) are looking to recruit forwards, if a good backrow option becomes available id be happy to move him in. Similarly if there are good middles and no backrowers available im not going to kick up a stink about him not being moved in this early in his career either, even if I think he will eventually end up there.
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I’ll agree he has gone backwards this season…

His progression is similar to me to what we saw with Bula … had a big debut year, then a bit of second year syndrome with people here calling for him to be moved to Center…then Bula looks to have bounced back in the third year ( although debatable that he is playing at a better level than his first season still ..)

I’d still be giving Sam one more year before considering moving him… although I guess perhaps I could change my mind if they sign another quality edge … although arguably they need a third anyway for the bench to replace Bird ..
 
Kelce68 said:
Yep. I think Sukkar is definitely an NRL squad player I want to keep, but in the middle. He is a very well-rounded, versatile young player.

Also tackles at 94% on an edge in first grade, well above the best in that position in the game, including the likes of Hudson Young and Crichton.
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He may very well end up in the middle in 2026 with KPP and Samuela (and Godinet coming through).
 
Kelce68 said:
Agree with the first part, not with the second.

Parra's pack is average. Super average. They are playing closer to their ability though, some of ours; not so much.

I think it's safe to say that Ryles is getting more out of the forwards he has than Benji is.
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U saying Jack Williams ,Hopgood ,Paulo
Kelce68 said:
Agree with the first part, not with the second.

Parra's pack is average. Super average. They are playing closer to their ability though, some of ours; not so much.

I think it's safe to say that Ryles is getting more out of the forwards he has than Benji is.
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You saying that Paulo , Williams , Hopgood and throw in younh Tuivete and Guymer are no better than our muscle 😂
 
jrtiger said:
I genuinely cannot fathom the pitchforks for Starford To'a.

he is injured. he is therefore going to make mistakes. blame the coach for playing him busted, and the admin of past and present for our horrendous depth in the outside backs.

at his best he is up there with the best centres in the competition. his stats from the beginning of the season indicate as such.

fingers crossed he gets the rest he so desperately needs this week.
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The pitchforks for Samuela Fainu are starting to become ridiculous too... guy is 21 & has been playing half the year busted. For every comment I see about how he's so out form nobody seems to explain how so. Has he hit the heights of last year? no but watch every time Luai puts a kick up who's leading our line speed & kick chase.
 
BlackWhiteGold said:
In hindsight now, the period 2020 - 2024 has been an absolute clusterfu*k for the club. A PhD student should do their doctorate on how not to run an elite sporting team based on the WT over this period. And Lee, the HBG & Justin should hang their heads in shame for many of their key decisions in this period.

Whilst many of us heralded the appointment of Sheens after Madge wore out the playing group led by sooks like Joey Leulia & Nofa, I for one clenched my teeth when vision emerged of Sheens returning to Concord into the old demountable footy offices flanked by his best mate Warren McDonnell. Unfortunately nostalgia got the better of common sense and we've paid the price.

I cannot think of one good thing McDonnell did for the club in his latest tenure. Anyone?
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the way lee still criticises the club publicly and puts his name in the media whenever something happens with WT infuriates me to no end, it’s his fault we got to where we did. was all self interest and the fans deserved much better
 
Kelce68 said:
In the way that they signed up the likes of Webster-Mansfield, Laulili'i, Miller, Fa'agutu, Tumeth, Matamua, et al, to long-term, Top 30- (or at least dev- ) guaranteed positions long term. The messaging around the likes of TDS and Galvin ought to be brought into questions too as the attitudes upon their arrival on the first grade scene have been called into question a lot lately. You could even work your way into the 2nd tier list of potentials from 2/3 years ago. The other Saukurus, Dillon and those other, forgettable names, etc.

I've heard from more than one source that they were promising the world to this wave of kids and backed it up with long deals for young players who, for the most part, either won't ever make it or will be in the 1st grade setup way too early.

It has been a contributing, not sole, factor in why our squad has been so far out of whack.
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it’s a random thought but I always think what Luai would’ve thought rocking up to concord and seeing what 6? players in the top 30 who won’t see another game of first grade, coming from a system/club where the top 30 is near impossible to break into.
surely luai would be like wtf has been happening at this joint 🤣
 
.
tigahhh said:
the way lee still criticises the club publicly and puts his name in the media whenever something happens with WT infuriates me to no end, it’s his fault we got to where we did. was all self interest and the fans deserved much better
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We know Sheens is dirty on the club as well, which causes his best mate The Mole to always be reporting negative stories about the club… couple that with the Isaac Moses/ Benji feud now happening as well…with Moses seemingly determined to disrupt the WT

For a club that is so success starved they somehow seem to have more arch enemies than Batman …
 
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