2023 Israel–Hamas war

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Mistymuzzle said:
There are a many many steps before US directly attack Iran, but if Hezbollah was to make a significant orchestrated attack on Israel and push them back, I dont think it is beyond the realms of possibilty that US air power supports Israel attacking Hezbollah in north.

The US have moved two aircraft carrier groups into the eastern Mediterranean and thats not for nothing. They are there as a deterrent for more action and to support Israel if necessary as well as provide support to extract hostages that are US citizens out of Gaza.

Up to 13 of the hostages that Hamas are holding in Gaza are US citizens and the US will not do nothing.
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USS Eisenhower is on its way to the Mediterranean to relieve the USS Ford, not augment it. It is on a regular scheduled deployment. USS Ford is on a world tour. Besides there are more efficient means of providing airpower than using costly and valuable carriers. The US Navy's sights are firmly on the Pacific.
 
AmericanHistoryX said:
They've come a long way. Eisenhower and Ford.
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There is the Ronald Reagan - Japan based and also John F Kennedy - sister ship to Ford and to deploy to the Pacific. George Washington is soon to relieve Reagan in Japan with Reagan to deploy to the US West Coast - Bremerton Navy Yard. Theodore Roosevelt is at San Diego with Vinson having just sailed from San Diego for supposedly Pacific operations. Abraham Lincoln is also Pacific based. The Nimitz is at Bremerton.
 
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WestsEffTheRest said:
Sounds like Islamophobia to me
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You should watch this. The beheading of the civilian is shown in great detail.


Also interesting to note how happy the civilians were when they were parading the naked, dead woman through the streets spitting on her.

Kidnapping 12 year olds.

Taunting a 5 year old boy and having other kids hit him with sticks.

It goes on.

The Palestinian cause around the world does itself no favours when its supporters evade direct questions and celebrate the killing of civilians in the streets. We saw it in Sydney, London, cities in the US AND Gaza.

Deflect and play “whataboutism” - that’s the tactic.
 
pawsandclaws1 said:
There is the Ronald Reagan - Japan based and also John F Kennedy - sister ship to Ford and to deploy to the Pacific. George Washington is soon to relieve Reagan in Japan with Reagan to deploy to the US West Coast - Bremerton Navy Yard. Theodore Roosevelt is at San Diego with Vinson having just sailed from San Diego for supposedly Pacific operations. Abraham Lincoln is also Pacific based. The Nimitz is at Bremerton.
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Where is the Nixon boat?
 
weststigers said:
You should watch this. The beheading of the civilian is shown in great detail.


Also interesting to note how happy the civilians were when they were parading the naked, dead woman through the streets spitting on her.

Kidnapping 12 year olds.

Taunting a 5 year old boy and having other kids hit him with sticks.

It goes on.

The Palestinian cause around the world does itself no favours when its supporters evade direct questions and celebrate the killing of civilians in the streets. We saw it in Sydney, London, cities in the US AND Gaza.

Deflect and play “whataboutism” - that’s the tactic.
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Sadly, too many jump to conclusions, based on emotions and biases " I support X, and I am against Y" without any thoughts (BTW check Daniel Kahneman's podcast on the fast and slow system e,g,

Some facts are presented herehttps://x.com/Osinttechnical/status/1714528610529288264?s=20
 
weststigers said:
You should watch this. The beheading of the civilian is shown in great detail.


Also interesting to note how happy the civilians were when they were parading the naked, dead woman through the streets spitting on her.

Kidnapping 12 year olds.

Taunting a 5 year old boy and having other kids hit him with sticks.

It goes on.

The Palestinian cause around the world does itself no favours when its supporters evade direct questions and celebrate the killing of civilians in the streets. We saw it in Sydney, London, cities in the US AND Gaza.

Deflect and play “whataboutism” - that’s the tactic.
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Those videos are uploaded by Hamas but still people talk about "fake news" and "what about Israel". Hamas are not hiding the ball, they are putting it out there who they are, what their objectives are in words, deeds and text but the west leap to defend them and not taking them at their word. It amazes me.
 
pawsandclaws1 said:
USS Eisenhower is on its way to the Mediterranean to relieve the USS Ford, not augment it. It is on a regular scheduled deployment. USS Ford is on a world tour. Besides there are more efficient means of providing airpower than using costly and valuable carriers. The US Navy's sights are firmly on the Pacific.
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After the relative failure of the much vaunted iron dome to saturation attack they'd be loathed to keep them in harms way for too long.

Iran recently tested a hypersonic missile as well.

Just a PR exercise.
 
Magpie_Magic said:
After the relative failure of the much vaunted iron dome to saturation attack they'd be loathed to keep them in harm way for too long.

Iran recently tested a hypersonic missile as well.

Just a PR exercise.
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They are there to support efforts to get the 13 US hostages out of Gaza IMO.
 
Mistymuzzle said:
They are there to support efforts to get the 13 US hostages out of Gaza IMO.
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That won't do much re that. I think the US was looking at deescalating. Most hostages are Israeli soldiers......previously they haven't shown dispensation for their release.

Watching Netanyahu without a tie tonight and Biden with one wasn't a good look.

I thought the Israeli response to relatively fading their incursion was the right one.....Hamas would like an escalation so you avoid that.....takes away that weapon. Israel is unlikely to defeat Hamas in street battles without the civilian population leaving entirely....that is ethnic cleansing so the Hamas would probably be hoping for a maximum Israeli incursion with aerial attacks putting world wide focus on civilian casualties.

But then yesterday's attack changed everything. A major miscalculation.
 
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Magpie_Magic said:
That won't do much re that. I think the US was looking at deescalating. Most hostages are Israeli soldiers......previously they haven't shown dispensation for their release.

Watching Netanyahu without a tie tonight and Biden with one wasn't a good look.

I thought the Israeli response to relatively fading their incursion was the right one.....Hamas would like an escalation so you avoid that.....takes away that weapon. Israel is unlikely to defeat Hamas in street battles without the civilian population leaving entirely....that is ethnic cleansing so the Hamas would probably be hoping for a maximum Israeli incursion with aerial attacks putting world wide focus on civilian casualties.

But then yesterday's attack changed everything. A major miscalculation.
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Heard a theory yesterday which makes some sense to me, from Peter Zeihan FWIW. That Iran ordered/green lighted/requested the Hamas attack in order to scupper the Saudi/Israeli deal but Iran expected the IDF to crush the incursion with maybe 20-30 Israelis killed. Theory that Hamas were way too successful the extent of the carnage was a lot more than expected and the corresponding Israeli response also uncalculated.
 
Magpie_Magic said:
That won't do much re that. I think the US was looking at deescalating. Most hostages are Israeli soldiers......previously they haven't shown dispensation for their release.

Watching Netanyahu without a tie tonight and Biden with one wasn't a good look.

I thought the Israeli response to relatively fading their incursion was the right one.....Hamas would like an escalation so you avoid that.....takes away that weapon. Israel is unlikely to defeat Hamas in street battles without the civilian population leaving entirely....that is ethnic cleansing so the Hamas would probably be hoping for a maximum Israeli incursion with aerial attacks putting world wide focus on civilian casualties.

But then yesterday's attack changed everything. A major miscalculation.
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Also for all the talk of ethnic cleansing or genocide, Israel are warning palestinians to get out of Gaza city and go south (or get out of Gaza). Israel have restored power and water in southern Gaza.
 
Mistymuzzle said:
Also for all the talk of ethnic cleansing or genocide, Israel are warning palestinians to get out of Gaza city and go south (or get out of Gaza). Israel have restored power and water in southern Gaza.
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That's true.

But you just can't order a population to leave. Especially without guarantees for return.
 
Mistymuzzle said:
Heard a theory yesterday which makes some sense to me, from Peter Zeihan FWIW. That Iran ordered/green lighted/requested the Hamas attack in order to scupper the Saudi/Israeli deal but Iran expected the IDF to crush the incursion with maybe 20-30 Israelis killed. Theory that Hamas were way too successful the extent of the carnage was a lot more than expected and the corresponding Israeli response also uncalculated.
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I suppose we will never know for sure but even though Iran may have their proxies around Israel they would have been sickened by the terrorist massacre.

That's not Iran's style and they have numerous problems with terrorism in Iran.

Alot of these paramilitaries are factional and uncontrollable.
 
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