2023 Israel–Hamas war

[earl]

To address just one line- about multi-generational Australians.

IF a multi-generational Australian, or ANYONE AT ALL, wants to celebrate in the streets because of a slaughter going on elsewhere, my feelings remain the same.

You are welcome to celebrate elsewhere. This is not a nation that celebrates slaughter.

So the way Israel treats Palestine is fine ? People marching the streets supporting Putin is fine ? Is it just Muslims acting like morons that is wrong ?

 

[The Chad]

You stated ship them out. You can't do that mate. This situation is also not one sided. I heard the Israeli minister of defense basically state he was going to commit genocide in Gaza.

People are angry and rightfully so.

Personally I think people should be able to protest against climate change and against the way women are treated in Iran etc.

I'm not supportive of anyone who is anti-Semitic. I have friends who are Jewish.

You're not looking past your blinkers.

I don't care if you support one side or the other, or if you believe in God or not, or if you are born here, there or anywhere.

I didn't say to ship out one group over another.

This is NOT a country that supports the slaughter of humans.

If ANY group chooses to take to Australian streets in support of violence, I'd happily invite them to take their celebrations to the place of the conflict.

Do not, bring, the, conflict, to, our, streets.

If you want to start yelling anti-sematic, start reading what is being said.

 

[WestsEffTheRest]

BUT- you leave the conflict overseas. If you can't, for whatever side, for whatever conflict, for whatever belief- take it with you on the way out.

We are not a country that celebrates slaughter. Anyone that does, is welcome to do so, elsewhere.

As a Muslim man myself I agree with this 100%. There's a reason why a lot of these people immigrated to Australia but are quick to forget it.

 

[Fallen Angel]

You stated ship them out. You can't do that mate. This situation is also not one sided. I heard the Israeli minister of defense basically state he was going to commit genocide in Gaza.

People are angry and rightfully so.

Personally I think people should be able to protest against climate change and against the way women are treated in Iran etc.

I'm not supportive of anyone who is anti-Semitic. I have friends who are Jewish.

Do you know any Muslim people ? I have family members who live in Saudia Arabia and Lebanon as well as Australia because they don't like the western culture here. They grew up here but go overseas to live especially when the kids are young. They send their kids back to go to high school here but they send them to Muslim

It’s not realistic to ship them out if they were born here. That’s just emotion. But they should be told to pull their heads in. Not the fact they are supporting one side or another, but because they are cheering on the slaughter of women and children. I’m not someone who gets invested in patriotism or what makes this country great, but I will say we are better than that as a country. Sure we have our divisions (the voice), but they don’t result in bloodshed.

 

[The Chad]

So the way Israel treats Palestine is fine ? People marching the streets supporting Putin is fine ? Is it just Muslims acting like morons that is wrong ?

If you would politely like to point to ANYWHERE I said these things, I'll happily address them.

However, it seems you are more interested in labelling people that don't see it your way.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

As we've witnessed in the excellent Melbourne demonstration, support for the Palestinian people is very different to support of Hamas. One of the marchers interviewed not only supported the Palestinian people but also the Israeli people. Don't let the behaviour of some in the Sydney conflate the issue.

 

[Mistymuzzle]

To address just one line- about multi-generational Australians.

IF a multi-generational Australian, or ANYONE AT ALL, wants to celebrate in the streets because of a slaughter going on elsewhere, my feelings remain the same.

You are welcome to celebrate elsewhere. This is not a nation that celebrates slaughter.

Exactly,

It is possible to be supportive of the plight of Palestinians. It is possible to have a sympathetic opinion of Israel and actions it needs to take to assure its existence surrounded by actors who have constitutional commitments to wiping them off the planet. It is correct for people to be sympathetic to both or either side in this conflict. It is possible to actually study the history of this section of the middle east to form an educated opinion on how we got to this point.

What is NOT possible is to form any kind of moral equivalence with what happened in Israel over the weekend. There is NO moral equivalence possible, there is no possible whataboutism and this is where this thread will end but it wont unfortunately.

 

[earl]

You're not looking past your blinkers.

I don't have blinkers. I'm trying to view the situation in it's complexity and not simplistically.

You think you can just sent people back to their country but their country might be here.

Imagine if you had relatives in Palestine who are treated terribly. Would you not be angry ?

This is NOT a country that supports the slaughter of humans.

This is where you are wrong and it's interesting because you called me out for having blinkers.

People support the slaughter of humans here all the time. Go and read the politics thread when people support Putin. Heaps of people support him. Do we send these morons to Russia to fight against the Ukraine ?

If you want to start yelling anti-sematic, start reading what is being said.

I abhor this stuff. It's disgusting. I abhor Hamas dropping bombs on civilians in Israel.

 

[Mistymuzzle]

As we've witnessed in the excellent Melbourne demonstration, support for the Palestinian people is very different to support of Hamas. One of the marchers interviewed not only supported the Palestinian people but also the Israeli people. Don't let the behaviour of some in the Sydney conflate the issue.

Of course its possible to support Palestinian people and their plight however the timing is attrocious. What Hamas did is so heinous and disgusting, all sensible people should condemn what Hamas did.

 

[earl]

If you would politely like to point to ANYWHERE I said these things, I'll happily address them.

You need to speak up when people support Putin and say the same things.

However, it seems you are more interested in labelling people that don't see it your way.

I'm not interested in doing anything of the sort. Just stop and think through what you are stating. You've made more than one comment about me "the blinkers" and now "labelling" and that is not what I am trying to do,

I'm stating the following points:-

1. You cannot send people back to their country when they are multi-generational Australians,
2. Anyone calling out anti-Semitic comments is someone who is stating disgusting things and it is abhorrent.
3. Israel continually act in ways that are disgusting and they treat the Palestinians in Gaza terribly.

 

[earl]

As we've witnessed in the excellent Melbourne demonstration, support for the Palestinian people is very different to support of Hamas. One of the marchers interviewed not only supported the Palestinian people but also the Israeli people. Don't let the behaviour of some in the Sydney conflate the issue.

Correct. There is a real big issue here that hasn't been addressed.

 

[WestsEffTheRest]

3. Israel continually act in ways that are disgusting and they treat the Palestinians in Gaza terribly.

This is what doesn't sit right with me, Israel has been doing this to Palestine for years & the media only reports it now that it has retaliated against Israel. Also, Hamas is a direct result of a lack of action against these atrocities.

 

[earl]

It’s not realistic to ship them out if they were born here. That’s just emotion.

It's stupid and emotional and bordering on racist.

but because they are cheering on the slaughter of women and children.

It's wrong but we need to calm shit down and start standing up for what is right. I appalled that the west has just supported Israel completely when I swear I head the Israeli minister of defence state he was going to attack them and turn things around 180 degrees and that was in a bad way towards Palestinians.

 

[The Chad]

I don't have blinkers. I'm trying to view the situation in it's complexity and not simplistically.

You think you can just sent people back to their country but their country might be here.

Imagine if you had relatives in Palestine who are treated terribly. Would you not be angry ?



This is where you are wrong and it's interesting because you called me out for having blinkers.

People support the slaughter of humans here all the time. Go and read the politics thread when people support Putin. Heaps of people support him. Do we send these morons to Russia to fight against the Ukraine ?



I abhor this stuff. It's disgusting. I abhor Hamas dropping bombs on civilians in Israel.

Dude, I respect you as a poster with your own beliefs. That's cool.

Go back, read what I've said. People taking to the streets, setting off fireworks, cheering on the slaughter of people, is not acceptable.

Again, I'd invite them to take their support of the conflict back to wear it came from.

That means those born here, there, anywhere. If you choose to support slaughter, Australia isn't the place for you.

Because you seem obssessed with the support of Putin as well, I don't remember seeing people supporting Russians parading the streets, setting off fireworks, in Sydney, Melbourne or Brisbane after they invaded the Ukraine, but if I had- I'd say the same thing.

There is a difference between being pro-Palestine or pro-Isreal, and the celebrations we saw on Australian streets over the weekend. I don't care what side of the wall you put your support. If you jump in a crowd, set off fireworks, chant "Death to whoever" and the rest- I'll invite you to take it elsewhere.

That kind of behaviour cannot be welcomed in Australia. And I don't care WHERE the people come from that are doing it.

 

[mikey]

Trust Earl to have the worst take on this.

Hamas storm into Israel, intentionally slaughtering civilians at a music festival, beheading babys, raping women, killing kids, taking women and children hostage and its Israels 'Tough Guy attitude" that is a problem.

I'm not supporting what happened last weekend; - nor do I support violence to achieve a goal however, I don't understand people who believe Israel is innocent in all this.
They have systematically persecuted the Palestinians and taken their properties and lands over decades. Their slaughter of innocents is labelled as fighting terrorism but the murders they commit gets very little coverage or condemnation in the West because of the Wests hate of Muslims.
Israel's tough guy attitude is a problem when it does nothing to seek peace in their part of the world. I place Netanyahu up there with Putin.

 

[earl]

Dude, I respect you as a poster with your own beliefs. That's cool.

Go back, read what I've said. People taking to the streets, setting off fireworks, cheering on the slaughter of people, is not acceptable.

I reacted to your point about sending them back to their country. I have family who are Muslims and they are on the whole lovely people. I have some friends at the gym I attend who are Muslim and lovely people.

Because you seem obssessed with the support of Putin as well, I don't remember seeing people supporting Russians parading the streets, setting off fireworks, in Sydney, Melbourne or Brisbane after they invaded the Ukraine, but if I had- I'd say the same thing.

They've had people parades with support for the Putin. I'd argue what Putin has done in the Ukraine is heaps worse than what Hamas has done in Israel and I'd argue the Palestinians have copped it rather than Russia which has clearly invaded the Ukraine for no good reason.

There is a difference between being pro-Palestine or pro-Isreal, and the celebrations we saw on Australian streets over the weekend. I don't care what side of the wall you put your support. If you jump in a crowd, set off fireworks, chant "Death to whoever" and the rest- I'll invite you to take it elsewhere.

That kind of behaviour cannot be welcomed in Australia. And I don't care WHERE the people come from that are doing it.

I agree without the comments about taking it elsewhere.

 

[Todd Packer]

It's the celebration of slaughter and advocation of more slaughter by the protestors that made the average Aussie sick.
Nobody denies their right to peaceful protest.

 

[Spartan117]

Biblical prophecy coming to fruition.

Eschatology student here.

 

[The Chad]

You need to speak up when people support Putin and say the same things.



I'm not interested in doing anything of the sort. Just stop and think through what you are stating. You've made more than one comment about me "the blinkers" and now "labelling" and that is not what I am trying to do,

I'm stating the following points:-

1. You cannot send people back to their country when they are multi-generational Australians,
2. Anyone calling out anti-Semitic comments is someone who is stating disgusting things and it is abhorrent.
3. Israel continually act in ways that are disgusting and they treat the Palestinians in Gaza terribly.

Firstly, I DON'T need to speak out about Putin. If people choose to get invested in conversations about politics, good for them.

However, because I think your point is more that what Putin is doing is comparable to the Isreal/Palestine conflict- I go back TO MY POINT- if there had been pro-Putin supporters on the streets celebrating slaughter, I'd invite them to take the celebrations to the conflict zone, NOT on AUSTRALIAN streets. If you want to be a pro-anybody side taker, that is fine. Everyone is entitled to beliefs, ideas, thoughts, etc.

The celebration of ANY slaughter has no place on Australian street. Those taking part, regardless of where they come from, should be made to take it elsewhere. (Before you respond- READ. If you are a 97th generation Australian of English parents, supporting slaughter- they are welcome to bugger off too- not just people from middle eastern backgrounds).

At no point have I offered, voiced, or SURE AS HELL celebrated, anything Isreal has done historically.

This is where the blinkers are. You are just assuming I'm against Palestine.

I'm against ANYONE that wants to celebrate the slaughter of others.

If you want to take part in that kind of activity, Australia is not the place for you.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

Of course its possible to support Palestinian people and their plight however the timing is attrocious. What Hamas did is so heinous and disgusting, all sensible people should condemn what Hamas did.

The organiser of the Sydney rally deplored the behaviour of those who chanted and burnt the Israeli flag. The Melbourne rally highlighted that a march in support of the Palestinian people could be successfully held at this time and I have not read or heard complaints from the Victoria Police. The behaviour of a few in Sydney was abhorrent and correctly has been condemned.

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