A crucial period for Madge...

[JC99]

I think the observant supporter knows our squad is ordinary. I also agree that there is a culture of failure. During that time as fans, we have asked for a few things that i can recall
Guts - now whether people see it or not I have seen a team that has absolutely guts out performances in games that would have been embarrassing in the past. Have we done that every week, no with this week as an example, but you can see some steel especially defensively that has not existed in the past. And that is with honestly a low tier squad
Accountability- I distinctly remember the vast majority of this forum demanding players be dropped and held accountable for their play. MAdge is doing that. I saw a relevant post above that said how do players get back in and its spot on. Unfortunately, the only judgment can be made at training due the current situation.
Depth and youth- we have regularly had a poor lower grade set up with all our energy going to our top grade. Finally, we are ridding our selves of average journeymen and investing in youth. Yes its the long game but if we get a couple of gun backs and forwards over the next few years its a master stroke.

I see madge doing what he can to turn around the club. He probably needs to go through all the auxiliary staff as well. Just by what the people on the forum observe and talk about we can see its a monster task.
The simple truth is we actually need to all-in on madge IMO. Another coaching change could signal our death knell. And even if he isnt your first choice who is there that is actually better honestly. Your not getting a Bellamy, a Robinson.

Well Hodgo you have nailed it - agree totally with all you have said.

Trouble is all the impatient people went away and suddenly became positive
when we went well with a few games. Same old story, go bad and they are all
back wanting everybody's head, no light at the end of the tunnel, they are all
plodders, 9th again, why do we always accept mediocrity etc. etc. .......

Anyone with any brains knows this will take time - time to offload the money
spongers, time for the young blokes to come on (even longer as we don't have
the A1 players to show them the way), or time for the money to become
available to buy the A1 players to come to our club.

Madge is not a miracle worker, he is doing the best he can under extremely
difficult circumstances, especially with the virus restrictions. Not sure what
everyone expects him to do. Maybe those that are impatient and just want to
whinge all the time - should go and watch the tennis, Super League etc. and
the Mods can let you know when we are cooking again - that'll save you from
slashing your wrists.

It will take time, as sure as the sun will rise tomorrow, we have to put up with
it, if we want a better and competitive football team.

(Please don't take offence at the above, all the negativity is very draining, has
got the better of me at the moment).

Ding ding ding. Spot on.

 

[Geo]

Eiso, Luciano, Packer and Aloiai interviews are on the WT website

Reporters asked all of them the same things - is training too hard? Is constantly changing the team making things harder? They all said the same thing, no.

Credit to them, they all took accountability (clearly something Madge is pushing very hard) and said every team chops and changes, every team works hard and that’s not the reason they kept dropping the footy against Newcastle which cost us the game.

At least their attitude off the field seems right. Now it’s up to them to bring it into the field every week, Luciano was asked how to do that and he had no clue, same as the rest of us 😂

lol ..they are hardly going to say Yeah ..it sucks..

I want my mummy..

 

[fibrodreaming]

Take the hit, clean it out, start again.

I like the idea of a "clean out" but I don't see how that can be managed for 2021.

Based on the information on the official WT site, we have 25 contracted players for 2021.

The POM has advised that we are close to extending McIntyre and are thinking of offering Eisenhuth another year.

If so, that makes 27 contracted players for next year, and 3 spots to fill.

It is hard to see how we can substantially upgrade our squad with only 3 players to add to the list.

We could shop players around but, unless we are prepared to pay substantial freight, we could only get rid of players that other clubs would be keen to take, which may not suit our plans.

According to the same official team list, we have only 12 contracted players for 2022. It seems like we will have to wait until 2022 to have a proper clean out.

 

[JC99]

Eiso, Luciano, Packer and Aloiai interviews are on the WT website

Reporters asked all of them the same things - is training too hard? Is constantly changing the team making things harder? They all said the same thing, no.

Credit to them, they all took accountability (clearly something Madge is pushing very hard) and said every team chops and changes, every team works hard and that’s not the reason they kept dropping the footy against Newcastle which cost us the game.

At least their attitude off the field seems right. Now it’s up to them to bring it into the field every week, Luciano was asked how to do that and he had no clue, same as the rest of us ?

lol ..they are hardly going to say Yeah ..it sucks..

I want my mummy..

Hasn’t stopped some former players of ours. We’ve had a few bad mouth the club while being here ?

 

[TYGA]

Take the hit, clean it out, start again.

I like the idea of a "clean out" but I don't see how that can be managed for 2021.

Based on the information on the official WT site, we have 25 contracted players for 2021.

The POM has advised that we are close to extending McIntyre and are thinking of offering Eisenhuth another year.

If so, that makes 27 contracted players for next year, and 3 spots to fill.

It is hard to see how we can substantially upgrade our squad with only 3 players to add to the list.

We could shop players around but, unless we are prepared to pay substantial freight, we could only get rid of players that other clubs would be keen to take, which may not suit our plans.

According to the same official team list, we have only 12 contracted players for 2022. It seems like we will have to wait until 2022 to have a proper clean out.

You are right. Generally players coming off contract in 2022 can be moved on at some cost.
It frees up a roster spot and some cap space. It can only be done if you have a younger replacement that’s cheap. Packer could be one as you have Utoikamanu coming in. Reynolds is another if Madden is ready next year.

The other issue is we need to look forward and sign and upgrade a few players that are in our plans. Aloai, Twal, Blore, McIntyre, Talau, Nofa and others.

It’s impossible to see us getting anything serious done this offseason.

 

[Tigerbuck63]

So in closing with that summary you have to question any improvement from Brooks and the coaches assertion to the next level. Seems these words have come back to bite Madge now.

Why ? He talked Brooks up and has backed him but since he hasn't been performing he was dropped. I bet Maguire wishes Brooks was performing but he isn't. It's not coaching or the other players or anything else holding Brooks back. Brooks is the no 1 contributor to his performances.

On the topic of a complete rebuild. I don't think that is possible. I think all any coach can do is look to improve the roster each year.

Well he signed him on a long term deal, maybe should have revised it in line with his own contract, I have backed Brooks prior earlier in the season and was hoping for some improvement just gone backwards.

 

[Lauren]

Eiso, Luciano, Packer and Aloiai interviews are on the WT website

Reporters asked all of them the same things - is training too hard? Is constantly changing the team making things harder? They all said the same thing, no.

Credit to them, they all took accountability (clearly something Madge is pushing very hard) and said every team chops and changes, every team works hard and that’s not the reason they kept dropping the footy against Newcastle which cost us the game.

At least their attitude off the field seems right. Now it’s up to them to bring it into the field every week, Luciano was asked how to do that and he had no clue, same as the rest of us ?

lol ..they are hardly going to say Yeah ..it sucks..

I want my mummy..

There's a bit of a disconnect between what the players say and how they perform, isn't there?
We understand the team isn't one of the best yet there seems to be a certain display of lack of trust - is it in Madge's vision or each other? Because that's what it translates to on the field.

I have more belief in them than I care to admit but wish they'd play with more camaraderie.
It 's unpleasant to watch them play with no belief, when during the re-start they were producing some very pretty footy.

 

[Tigerbuck63]

Take the hit, clean it out, start again.

I like the idea of a "clean out" but I don't see how that can be managed for 2021.

Based on the information on the official WT site, we have 25 contracted players for 2021.

The POM has advised that we are close to extending McIntyre and are thinking of offering Eisenhuth another year.

If so, that makes 27 contracted players for next year, and 3 spots to fill.

It is hard to see how we can substantially upgrade our squad with only 3 players to add to the list.

We could shop players around but, unless we are prepared to pay substantial freight, we could only get rid of players that other clubs would be keen to take, which may not suit our plans.

According to the same official team list, we have only 12 contracted players for 2022. It seems like we will have to wait until 2022 to have a proper clean out.

2020 Playing Squad
Player 2020 2021 2022 2023 2024
ALOIAI, Josh ✔ ✔
BLORE, Shawn ✔ ✔
BRADLEY, Kane ✔
BROOKS, Luke ✔ ✔ ✔ ✔
CHEE-KAM, Michael ✔ ✔
CINI, Zac ✔
CLARK, Oliver ✔
DOUEIHI, Adam $600K $600K $600K $600K
EISENHUTH, Matthew ✔
GARNER, Luke ✔ ✔ ✔
GRANT, Harry ✔
JENNINGS, Robert ✔
KEPAOA, Asu ✔ ✔ ✔
LAWRENCE, Chris ✔
LEILUA, Joseph ✔ ✔ ✔
LEILUA, Luciano ✔ ✔ ✔
LIDDLE, Jacob ✔ ✔
MADDEN, Jock ✔
MARSHALL, Benji (c) ✔
MBYE, Moses (c) $950K $950K $950K
MCINTYRE, Sam ✔
MCQUEEN, Chris ✔
MIKAELE, Thomas ✔ ✔
MUSGROVE, Zane ✔ ✔
NOFOALUMA, David ✔ ✔
PACKER, Russell ✔ ✔
REYNOLDS, Josh $750K $750K
SEYFARTH, Alex ✔
SIMPKIN, Jake ✔
SMITH, Dylan ✔
TALAU, Tommy ✔ ✔ ✔
TAYLOR, Elijah ✔
TWAL, Alex ✔ ✔ ✔
UTOIKAMANU, Stefano ✔ ✔ ✔
WALTERS, Billy ✔ ✔

 

[Newtown]

If I were Benji I would be much more concerned than Madge about a short term NRL future.

 

[Newtown]

If I were Benji I would be much more concerned than Madge about a short term NRL future.

 

[Tigerbuck63]

If I were Benji I would be much more concerned than Madge about a short term NRL future.

Benji should retire this season and so should Lawrence....
Also should be Taylor,Seyfarth, McQueen, Jennings, Cini.
Grant gone Miro back.

 

[earl]

So in closing with that summary you have to question any improvement from Brooks and the coaches assertion to the next level. Seems these words have come back to bite Madge now.

Why ? He talked Brooks up and has backed him but since he hasn't been performing he was dropped. I bet Maguire wishes Brooks was performing but he isn't. It's not coaching or the other players or anything else holding Brooks back. Brooks is the no 1 contributor to his performances.

On the topic of a complete rebuild. I don't think that is possible. I think all any coach can do is look to improve the roster each year.


Well he signed him on a long term deal, maybe should have revised it in line with his own contract, I have backed Brooks prior earlier in the season and was hoping for some improvement just gone backwards.

I agree and it's definitely a problem. Let's see how it pans out. I suppose my point is that we need to see how Madge develops the roster and team over time. He isn't going to get every call correct.

 

[Needaname]

Take the hit, clean it out, start again.

I like the idea of a "clean out" but I don't see how that can be managed for 2021.

Based on the information on the official WT site, we have 25 contracted players for 2021.

The POM has advised that we are close to extending McIntyre and are thinking of offering Eisenhuth another year.

If so, that makes 27 contracted players for next year, and 3 spots to fill.

It is hard to see how we can substantially upgrade our squad with only 3 players to add to the list.

We could shop players around but, unless we are prepared to pay substantial freight, we could only get rid of players that other clubs would be keen to take, which may not suit our plans.

According to the same official team list, we have only 12 contracted players for 2022. It seems like we will have to wait until 2022 to have a proper clean out.

Let me redirect your attention to the Roosters in years 2011-2012-2013
A summary,
2011 grand final hangover, few bad eggs moved on end of year, young players debuted, most notably Cordner.
2012 does this sound familiar ‘the roosters have decided to recruit with a youth policy, no player over 23 I believe’ this led to the Anasta disharmony and shock move to WestsTigers. Full credit to Braith, he remained their best and most senior player that year. Tupuo and RTS debut.
2013 what happened to that youth policy? Maybe it was just a convenient slogan at the time.
Recruits SBW 29, James Maloney 27, Luke O’Donnell 32, Sam Moa 29 and Micheal Jennings 25...
You say it’s a big job for us to turn over our roster next year but 2022 is a green light for us to start shaping what we look like. Next years turn over will happen as a consequence.....

 

[BWGleague]

Wests need to get there game playing heads on week in & week out ,can match it with any team when they turn up to play
perhaps they need to poach the mindset coach from the richmond tigers who broke a 37 year drought & been competitive since, every club is looking for that legal edge how does the storm do it so
consistently ? no doubt madges success has stemmed from learning under bellamy & given time i do have faith he can implement the same with us

 

[fibrodreaming]

Let me redirect your attention to the Roosters in years 2011-2012-2013

Hopefully our 2022 roster will emulate the Roosters "clean out" will deliver similar success.

 

[Madge]

https://www.nrl.com/news/2020/08/11/tigers-try-different-training-approach/

Some footage of them having some fun with each other

 

[Harvey]

https://www.nrl.com/news/2020/08/11/tigers-try-different-training-approach/

Some footage of them having some fun with each other

Hopefully it finished on time. 10 minutes over and players will be requesting a release

 

[Tiger5150]

https://www.nrl.com/news/2020/08/11/tigers-try-different-training-approach/

Some footage of them having some fun with each other

That looked fake as. Like OK everyone.....we are having a good time..........NOW!

 

[TheDaBoss]

https://www.nrl.com/news/2020/08/11/tigers-try-different-training-approach/

Some footage of them having some fun with each other

Hopefully it finished on time. 10 minutes over and players will be requesting a release

bit of field goal practice there

shame we cant kick any goals

 

[bbobb]

I recall the Dogs having a halves issue and Dessie had the forwards ball play through James Graham to great success (Grand Finalists). He had a problem and adapted.

Not the world's greatest example, Des being sacked within a few years and soundly blamed (rightly or not) for the spending quagmire the Dogs found themselves in, and haven't recovered from since.

That wasn’t the point of the example ??

I get the point of your example, but what a coach did with his forwards whilst he was killing the club is not a great example IMO.

It would be like saying how smart a job Bellamy did with Melbourne in 2007 whilst he was cheating the salary cap. Yeah he could achieve certain outcomes whilst he was doing the wrong thing, and it's not something a rule-abiding coach can necessarily emulate.

Agree that Madge should play within the rules but he needs to adapt his game plans. The one out stuff, trying to get a quick play the ball is not working. We are getting dominated in the ruck, defences are having time to set and we aren’t rolling forward. Our halves cannot play off the back of that.

This is not so much about the players and their individual abilities but more about Madge understanding the strengths and weaknesses we possess as a team and developing a game plan that compliments our strengths and avoids our weaknesses.