Aloiai

[JD Tiger]

I was told the 24-hour deadline was only given to Aloiai after Tigers got word he was speaking to Manly, and it only applied to the offer that was already in front of him.

It's not like the Tigers gave him a fresh offer with a 1-day take/leave deadline. That just makes no sense - why would Tigers drop such an abrupt and aggressive offer on Aloiai after carefully developing him over so many seasons and different administrations? Esp. with a year remaining on his contract.

I can totally understand that Aloiai may have been aware that other forwards were getting paid more than him, and it may have been upsetting to him. We all know there were/are players in the roster who aren't giving an appropriate return on investment.

HOWEVER you can't just do to your employer demanding to match or beat the salary of someone you "think" you are better than, esp. when that person was signed by a previous coach. I was told that the club originally gave Aloiai an offer that they felt matched his output, status in the club and future potential - and he was stalling in making a decision. Time has shown that Aloiai was stalling because he was negotiating with another club.

Tigers are certainly being much more selective and strict with roster management. On paper this approach is working out on the positive side of the ledger.

Now that's a good clear articulate response. If that was the first response to what the Tiger19 posted, he (or she) may still be around. It seems their take on the situation was quite different to the mostly agreed take on here, but that doesn't mean we have to drive them away.

For the record, my opinion is that JA is scum. Going for better deal is fine, no loyalty shown but fine. But disrespecting the team by that stupid lawn mowing pic was just childish, and he lost all respect I had for him. Looking forward to playing against him, if he makes manlys run on side.

 

[Tiger_Steve]

I was told the 24-hour deadline was only given to Aloiai after Tigers got word he was speaking to Manly, and it only applied to the offer that was already in front of him.

It's not like the Tigers gave him a fresh offer with a 1-day take/leave deadline. That just makes no sense - why would Tigers drop such an abrupt and aggressive offer on Aloiai after carefully developing him over so many seasons and different administrations? Esp. with a year remaining on his contract.

I can totally understand that Aloiai may have been aware that other forwards were getting paid more than him, and it may have been upsetting to him. We all know there were/are players in the roster who aren't giving an appropriate return on investment.

HOWEVER you can't just do to your employer demanding to match or beat the salary of someone you "think" you are better than, esp. when that person was signed by a previous coach. I was told that the club originally gave Aloiai an offer that they felt matched his output, status in the club and future potential - and he was stalling in making a decision. Time has shown that Aloiai was stalling because he was negotiating with another club.

Tigers are certainly being much more selective and strict with roster management. On paper this approach is working out on the positive side of the ledger.

Now that's a good clear articulate response. If that was the first response to what the Tiger19 posted, he (or she) may still be around. It seems their take on the situation was quite different to the mostly agreed take on here, but that doesn't mean we have to drive them away.

For the record, my opinion is that JA is scum. Going for better deal is fine, no loyalty shown but fine. But disrespecting the team by that stupid lawn mowing pic was just childish, and he lost all respect I had for him. Looking forward to playing against him, if he makes manlys run on side.

Yep I can take on board what you’re saying but to be fair me and others articulated in some detail what went down when this originally happened. Becomes a bit frustrating reading agendas.
@jirskyr did articulate this very well.

 

[JD Tiger]

I was told the 24-hour deadline was only given to Aloiai after Tigers got word he was speaking to Manly, and it only applied to the offer that was already in front of him.

It's not like the Tigers gave him a fresh offer with a 1-day take/leave deadline. That just makes no sense - why would Tigers drop such an abrupt and aggressive offer on Aloiai after carefully developing him over so many seasons and different administrations? Esp. with a year remaining on his contract.

I can totally understand that Aloiai may have been aware that other forwards were getting paid more than him, and it may have been upsetting to him. We all know there were/are players in the roster who aren't giving an appropriate return on investment.

HOWEVER you can't just do to your employer demanding to match or beat the salary of someone you "think" you are better than, esp. when that person was signed by a previous coach. I was told that the club originally gave Aloiai an offer that they felt matched his output, status in the club and future potential - and he was stalling in making a decision. Time has shown that Aloiai was stalling because he was negotiating with another club.

Tigers are certainly being much more selective and strict with roster management. On paper this approach is working out on the positive side of the ledger.

Now that's a good clear articulate response. If that was the first response to what the Tiger19 posted, he (or she) may still be around. It seems their take on the situation was quite different to the mostly agreed take on here, but that doesn't mean we have to drive them away.

For the record, my opinion is that JA is scum. Going for better deal is fine, no loyalty shown but fine. But disrespecting the team by that stupid lawn mowing pic was just childish, and he lost all respect I had for him. Looking forward to playing against him, if he makes manlys run on side.

Yep I can take on board what you’re saying but to be fair me and others articulated in some detail what went down when this originally happened. Becomes a bit frustrating reading agendas.
@jirskyr did articulate this very well.

I think the observation that the old poster stopped posting and the new account being made on the same day was a bit of a give away, lol. :wink:

I'm curious as to why that agenda was being pushed. Trying to clear JA's name? No chance, but why even bother, why would JA or a fan/friend of JA's even care?

 

[cochise]

I was told the 24-hour deadline was only given to Aloiai after Tigers got word he was speaking to Manly, and it only applied to the offer that was already in front of him.

It's not like the Tigers gave him a fresh offer with a 1-day take/leave deadline. That just makes no sense - why would Tigers drop such an abrupt and aggressive offer on Aloiai after carefully developing him over so many seasons and different administrations? Esp. with a year remaining on his contract.

I can totally understand that Aloiai may have been aware that other forwards were getting paid more than him, and it may have been upsetting to him. We all know there were/are players in the roster who aren't giving an appropriate return on investment.

HOWEVER you can't just do to your employer demanding to match or beat the salary of someone you "think" you are better than, esp. when that person was signed by a previous coach. I was told that the club originally gave Aloiai an offer that they felt matched his output, status in the club and future potential - and he was stalling in making a decision. Time has shown that Aloiai was stalling because he was negotiating with another club.

Tigers are certainly being much more selective and strict with roster management. On paper this approach is working out on the positive side of the ledger.

Now that's a good clear articulate response. If that was the first response to what the Tiger19 posted, he (or she) may still be around. It seems their take on the situation was quite different to the mostly agreed take on here, but that doesn't mean we have to drive them away.

For the record, my opinion is that JA is scum. Going for better deal is fine, no loyalty shown but fine. But disrespecting the team by that stupid lawn mowing pic was just childish, and he lost all respect I had for him. Looking forward to playing against him, if he makes manlys run on side.

This is the second time someone has come on here telling the exact same version of events that has come from Josh, the 1st time it was someone claiming to be one of his friends. This time when I told him that is not what happened he started downvoting my posts. I even stated that I believe that is what he was told, the fact remains that is not what happened.

 

[JD Tiger]

I was told the 24-hour deadline was only given to Aloiai after Tigers got word he was speaking to Manly, and it only applied to the offer that was already in front of him.

It's not like the Tigers gave him a fresh offer with a 1-day take/leave deadline. That just makes no sense - why would Tigers drop such an abrupt and aggressive offer on Aloiai after carefully developing him over so many seasons and different administrations? Esp. with a year remaining on his contract.

I can totally understand that Aloiai may have been aware that other forwards were getting paid more than him, and it may have been upsetting to him. We all know there were/are players in the roster who aren't giving an appropriate return on investment.

HOWEVER you can't just do to your employer demanding to match or beat the salary of someone you "think" you are better than, esp. when that person was signed by a previous coach. I was told that the club originally gave Aloiai an offer that they felt matched his output, status in the club and future potential - and he was stalling in making a decision. Time has shown that Aloiai was stalling because he was negotiating with another club.

Tigers are certainly being much more selective and strict with roster management. On paper this approach is working out on the positive side of the ledger.

Now that's a good clear articulate response. If that was the first response to what the Tiger19 posted, he (or she) may still be around. It seems their take on the situation was quite different to the mostly agreed take on here, but that doesn't mean we have to drive them away.

For the record, my opinion is that JA is scum. Going for better deal is fine, no loyalty shown but fine. But disrespecting the team by that stupid lawn mowing pic was just childish, and he lost all respect I had for him. Looking forward to playing against him, if he makes manlys run on side.

This is the second time someone has come on here telling the exact same version of events that has come from Josh, the 1st time it was someone claiming to be one of his friends. This time when I told him that is not what happened he started downvoting my posts. I even stated that I believe that is what he was told, the fact remains that is not what happened.

I think someone said to him if you're not Hartigan or JA then you couldn't be sure, and he said that he wasn't Hartigan. I suspect it was likely the same someone as before, perhaps someone who knew JA (maybe through a mate of a mate or a church group?), or at least knew of him.

 

[cochise]

I was told the 24-hour deadline was only given to Aloiai after Tigers got word he was speaking to Manly, and it only applied to the offer that was already in front of him.

It's not like the Tigers gave him a fresh offer with a 1-day take/leave deadline. That just makes no sense - why would Tigers drop such an abrupt and aggressive offer on Aloiai after carefully developing him over so many seasons and different administrations? Esp. with a year remaining on his contract.

I can totally understand that Aloiai may have been aware that other forwards were getting paid more than him, and it may have been upsetting to him. We all know there were/are players in the roster who aren't giving an appropriate return on investment.

HOWEVER you can't just do to your employer demanding to match or beat the salary of someone you "think" you are better than, esp. when that person was signed by a previous coach. I was told that the club originally gave Aloiai an offer that they felt matched his output, status in the club and future potential - and he was stalling in making a decision. Time has shown that Aloiai was stalling because he was negotiating with another club.

Tigers are certainly being much more selective and strict with roster management. On paper this approach is working out on the positive side of the ledger.

Now that's a good clear articulate response. If that was the first response to what the Tiger19 posted, he (or she) may still be around. It seems their take on the situation was quite different to the mostly agreed take on here, but that doesn't mean we have to drive them away.

For the record, my opinion is that JA is scum. Going for better deal is fine, no loyalty shown but fine. But disrespecting the team by that stupid lawn mowing pic was just childish, and he lost all respect I had for him. Looking forward to playing against him, if he makes manlys run on side.

This is the second time someone has come on here telling the exact same version of events that has come from Josh, the 1st time it was someone claiming to be one of his friends. This time when I told him that is not what happened he started downvoting my posts. I even stated that I believe that is what he was told, the fact remains that is not what happened.

I think someone said to him if you're not Hartigan or JA then you couldn't be sure, and he said that he wasn't Hartigan. I suspect it was likely the same someone as before, perhaps someone who knew JA (maybe through a mate of a mate or a church group?), or at least knew of him.

Yeah I agree, for some reason Josh or people connected to him want to get this version of events out into the public domain. @jirskyr post is very close to what happened, Josh was also very disrespectful in the language he used when delivering his demands to the club. This is despite he and his manager telling the club how happy he was at the club during the previous meeting.

I will say I was probably a little too blunt in my responses to @Tiger19 and I'll apologise for that, but I am just frustrated that this agenda is being pushed when it isn't true. The club is working hard to improve its rep in this area and these types are stories are trying and have the potential to reverse that hard work.

 

[Guest]

An amusing last few pages.

Who cares... He's gone

Agree. He took a once in a lifetime payrise. It won't necessarily bring him success though.

 

[PJ_]

Perfect player for manly, they deserve each other

 

[cochise]

An amusing last few pages.

Who cares... He's gone

Agree. He took a once in a lifetime payrise. It won't necessarily bring him success though.

He got kissed on the butt by a rainbow called Des Hasler.

 

[Tiger_Steve]

I was told the 24-hour deadline was only given to Aloiai after Tigers got word he was speaking to Manly, and it only applied to the offer that was already in front of him.

It's not like the Tigers gave him a fresh offer with a 1-day take/leave deadline. That just makes no sense - why would Tigers drop such an abrupt and aggressive offer on Aloiai after carefully developing him over so many seasons and different administrations? Esp. with a year remaining on his contract.

I can totally understand that Aloiai may have been aware that other forwards were getting paid more than him, and it may have been upsetting to him. We all know there were/are players in the roster who aren't giving an appropriate return on investment.

HOWEVER you can't just do to your employer demanding to match or beat the salary of someone you "think" you are better than, esp. when that person was signed by a previous coach. I was told that the club originally gave Aloiai an offer that they felt matched his output, status in the club and future potential - and he was stalling in making a decision. Time has shown that Aloiai was stalling because he was negotiating with another club.

Tigers are certainly being much more selective and strict with roster management. On paper this approach is working out on the positive side of the ledger.

Now that's a good clear articulate response. If that was the first response to what the Tiger19 posted, he (or she) may still be around. It seems their take on the situation was quite different to the mostly agreed take on here, but that doesn't mean we have to drive them away.

For the record, my opinion is that JA is scum. Going for better deal is fine, no loyalty shown but fine. But disrespecting the team by that stupid lawn mowing pic was just childish, and he lost all respect I had for him. Looking forward to playing against him, if he makes manlys run on side.

Yep I can take on board what you’re saying but to be fair me and others articulated in some detail what went down when this originally happened. Becomes a bit frustrating reading agendas.
@jirskyr did articulate this very well.

I think the observation that the old poster stopped posting and the new account being made on the same day was a bit of a give away, lol. :wink:

I'm curious as to why that agenda was being pushed. Trying to clear JA's name? No chance, but why even bother, why would JA or a fan/friend of JA's even care?

I’m guessing but I think they were trying to control the narrative - try to make tigers look bad as has been perceived before. Didn’t work though. He was mown down pretty quick?

 

[cochise]

I was told the 24-hour deadline was only given to Aloiai after Tigers got word he was speaking to Manly, and it only applied to the offer that was already in front of him.

It's not like the Tigers gave him a fresh offer with a 1-day take/leave deadline. That just makes no sense - why would Tigers drop such an abrupt and aggressive offer on Aloiai after carefully developing him over so many seasons and different administrations? Esp. with a year remaining on his contract.

I can totally understand that Aloiai may have been aware that other forwards were getting paid more than him, and it may have been upsetting to him. We all know there were/are players in the roster who aren't giving an appropriate return on investment.

HOWEVER you can't just do to your employer demanding to match or beat the salary of someone you "think" you are better than, esp. when that person was signed by a previous coach. I was told that the club originally gave Aloiai an offer that they felt matched his output, status in the club and future potential - and he was stalling in making a decision. Time has shown that Aloiai was stalling because he was negotiating with another club.

Tigers are certainly being much more selective and strict with roster management. On paper this approach is working out on the positive side of the ledger.

Now that's a good clear articulate response. If that was the first response to what the Tiger19 posted, he (or she) may still be around. It seems their take on the situation was quite different to the mostly agreed take on here, but that doesn't mean we have to drive them away.

For the record, my opinion is that JA is scum. Going for better deal is fine, no loyalty shown but fine. But disrespecting the team by that stupid lawn mowing pic was just childish, and he lost all respect I had for him. Looking forward to playing against him, if he makes manlys run on side.

Yep I can take on board what you’re saying but to be fair me and others articulated in some detail what went down when this originally happened. Becomes a bit frustrating reading agendas.
@jirskyr did articulate this very well.

I think the observation that the old poster stopped posting and the new account being made on the same day was a bit of a give away, lol. :wink:

I'm curious as to why that agenda was being pushed. Trying to clear JA's name? No chance, but why even bother, why would JA or a fan/friend of JA's even care?

I’m guessing but I think they were trying to control the narrative - try to make tigers look bad as has been perceived before. Didn’t work though. He was mown down pretty quick?

Its a strange thing to raise again months later.

 

[Tim Sheens]

Not fussed at losing a guy that often took the glory runs and was poor both at the ruck and working as an A defender. There are reasons that his team-mates voted for Packer over him in the Player's player match awards long before this stuff came out.

 

[LeichhardtTiger]

I was told the 24-hour deadline was only given to Aloiai after Tigers got word he was speaking to Manly, and it only applied to the offer that was already in front of him.

It's not like the Tigers gave him a fresh offer with a 1-day take/leave deadline. That just makes no sense - why would Tigers drop such an abrupt and aggressive offer on Aloiai after carefully developing him over so many seasons and different administrations? Esp. with a year remaining on his contract.

I can totally understand that Aloiai may have been aware that other forwards were getting paid more than him, and it may have been upsetting to him. We all know there were/are players in the roster who aren't giving an appropriate return on investment.

HOWEVER you can't just do to your employer demanding to match or beat the salary of someone you "think" you are better than, esp. when that person was signed by a previous coach. I was told that the club originally gave Aloiai an offer that they felt matched his output, status in the club and future potential - and he was stalling in making a decision. Time has shown that Aloiai was stalling because he was negotiating with another club.

Tigers are certainly being much more selective and strict with roster management. On paper this approach is working out on the positive side of the ledger.

Now that's a good clear articulate response. If that was the first response to what the Tiger19 posted, he (or she) may still be around. It seems their take on the situation was quite different to the mostly agreed take on here, but that doesn't mean we have to drive them away.

For the record, my opinion is that JA is scum. Going for better deal is fine, no loyalty shown but fine. But disrespecting the team by that stupid lawn mowing pic was just childish, and he lost all respect I had for him. Looking forward to playing against him, if he makes manlys run on side.

Yep I can take on board what you’re saying but to be fair me and others articulated in some detail what went down when this originally happened. Becomes a bit frustrating reading agendas.
@jirskyr did articulate this very well.

I think the observation that the old poster stopped posting and the new account being made on the same day was a bit of a give away, lol. :wink:

I'm curious as to why that agenda was being pushed. Trying to clear JA's name? No chance, but why even bother, why would JA or a fan/friend of JA's even care?

I’m guessing but I think they were trying to control the narrative - try to make tigers look bad as has been perceived before. Didn’t work though. **He was mown down pretty quic**k?

He was mown down pretty quic**k"
Wests were The Victas!

 

[Tiger_Fanatic3]


I suggest he shuts his mouth, fronting the media and hitting back directly at WT is just not on and unprofessional. He is embarrassing himself and it was quite obvious he just didn't want to put in the hard yards at training & the money wasn't good enough. Good Riddance

'Dessy trusts you'll keep the hill at Brooky well maintained'🤣

 

[tigerap]

He avoided mentioning he is earning $250k pa extra @manly .....

 

[Cairnstigers]

Another lame, poorly written, FOXbait piece of rubbish article. George Clarke is obviously worried about hitting his quota this week.

Here’s the real story.

Josh and his questionable manager Tyran Smith asked for a big money upgrade based on an ok season from JA - we said no.

Des and Manly scrambled after AFB jumped across the ditch and were willing to pay overs to fill a hole.

Josh got paid, we’ve moved on with a SOO recruit in JO and now everyone lives happily ever after.

The end.

Everyone except Josh that is
Still trying to bag his old club by the looks of it
It makes him look like a goose

Move on Josh we all have

Our forward pack looks far stronger this year and will do very well without you
Thanks for you efforts but you have made your bed and now you have to lie in it

Now packer
You have one job to do this year
Just one

 

[Tiger5150]

Sorry guys too lazy to post article.
https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-premiership/teams/sea-eagles/nrl-2021-manlywarringah-sea-eagles-josh-aloiai-wests-tigers-exit-mow-the-lawns-meme/news-story/df6f38b4b0b7dc38b66e49f4015bfdf4

Two things stand out for me:

Was never about the money and wants to play finals. If the numbers are correct he's set to earn a massive upgrade money wise so to say it's not about the money is a bit rich.

Secondly Manly's roster apart from the Turbo brothers is pretty ordinary. I don't think even with an injury free Tom they'll make the 8. He goes down again they most certainly won't.

I know the story first hand and as a massive Tigers fan it’s an interesting one.

He is getting a big pay rise at Manly but was willing to take less at the Tigers to stay as he was comfortable here.

Hartigan is a ruthless and often disrespectful businessman and came through with a shocking first offer with a 24 hr deadline which Josh was angered by and therefore asked for an immediate release ... BUT... Hartigan’s work in recruitment this off-season makes me feel that oftentimes the best businessmen are ruthless and I think he is ultimately turning the club in the right direction.

Disappointing how it turned out though because Madge wanted to keep Josh and saw him as next in line to the captaincy.

This is very inaccurate. Not even close to the truth

This website may as well be named adamhartiganfanclub.com. You'll struggle to find friends here with a story like that.

It’s hard to argue with . He’s replaced Eisenhuth , Clarke , and Josh , with Tamou , Stefano and Joe O. 2 plodders and a guy who played 1 good season , to our now captain , an origin player off a down year , and the highest rated prop coming through the grades . And that’s just 1 position .


Matterson =>Blore

As of today . Blore is considered an origin player of the future and Matterson is like a douchebag version of Aubusson. He will never play origin . Mainly cause he’s a knob . I reckon you’ll be regretting this statement by the end of 2022

REgretting this statement? Not aware I actaully made a statement, regardless I think you may have misinterpreted.

I was merely pointing out that under Hartigan, Matterson was replaced with Blore, which is a good result.

I think Matterson is a very good player but with a pea heart and questionable ethics. Blore has the *potential* to be a great player. Thats where I see them both at the moment.

I hope you can clarify so I know what it is I will regret in the future.

 

[Tiger5150]

I was told the 24-hour deadline was only given to Aloiai after Tigers got word he was speaking to Manly, and it only applied to the offer that was already in front of him.

It's not like the Tigers gave him a fresh offer with a 1-day take/leave deadline. That just makes no sense - why would Tigers drop such an abrupt and aggressive offer on Aloiai after carefully developing him over so many seasons and different administrations? Esp. with a year remaining on his contract.

I can totally understand that Aloiai may have been aware that other forwards were getting paid more than him, and it may have been upsetting to him. We all know there were/are players in the roster who aren't giving an appropriate return on investment.

HOWEVER you can't just do to your employer demanding to match or beat the salary of someone you "think" you are better than, esp. when that person was signed by a previous coach. I was told that the club originally gave Aloiai an offer that they felt matched his output, status in the club and future potential - and he was stalling in making a decision. Time has shown that Aloiai was stalling because he was negotiating with another club.

Tigers are certainly being much more selective and strict with roster management. On paper this approach is working out on the positive side of the ledger.

Now that's a good clear articulate response. If that was the first response to what the Tiger19 posted, he (or she) may still be around. It seems their take on the situation was quite different to the mostly agreed take on here, but that doesn't mean we have to drive them away.

Noone drove Tiger19 away. Myself and a few others (I thought) politely pointed out that the EXACT same story was trotted out by Tyga4eva at the time and it fell apart and was shown to be untrue at the time because of other facts that came out.

Tiger19 responded by telling us we were all full of it. Then I made note of the fact that he joined at the same time that Tyga4eva left and that was the last we saw of he/she. (for now......under this name).

 

[cochise]

Sorry guys too lazy to post article.
https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-premiership/teams/sea-eagles/nrl-2021-manlywarringah-sea-eagles-josh-aloiai-wests-tigers-exit-mow-the-lawns-meme/news-story/df6f38b4b0b7dc38b66e49f4015bfdf4

Two things stand out for me:

Was never about the money and wants to play finals. If the numbers are correct he's set to earn a massive upgrade money wise so to say it's not about the money is a bit rich.

Secondly Manly's roster apart from the Turbo brothers is pretty ordinary. I don't think even with an injury free Tom they'll make the 8. He goes down again they most certainly won't.

I know the story first hand and as a massive Tigers fan it’s an interesting one.

He is getting a big pay rise at Manly but was willing to take less at the Tigers to stay as he was comfortable here.

Hartigan is a ruthless and often disrespectful businessman and came through with a shocking first offer with a 24 hr deadline which Josh was angered by and therefore asked for an immediate release ... BUT... Hartigan’s work in recruitment this off-season makes me feel that oftentimes the best businessmen are ruthless and I think he is ultimately turning the club in the right direction.

Disappointing how it turned out though because Madge wanted to keep Josh and saw him as next in line to the captaincy.

This is very inaccurate. Not even close to the truth

This website may as well be named adamhartiganfanclub.com. You'll struggle to find friends here with a story like that.

It’s hard to argue with . He’s replaced Eisenhuth , Clarke , and Josh , with Tamou , Stefano and Joe O. 2 plodders and a guy who played 1 good season , to our now captain , an origin player off a down year , and the highest rated prop coming through the grades . And that’s just 1 position .


Matterson =>Blore

As of today . Blore is considered an origin player of the future and Matterson is like a douchebag version of Aubusson. He will never play origin . Mainly cause he’s a knob . I reckon you’ll be regretting this statement by the end of 2022


REgretting this statement? Not aware I actaully made a statement, regardless I think you may have misinterpreted.

I was merely pointing out that under Hartigan, Matterson was replaced with Blore, which is a good result.

I think Matterson is a very good player but with a pea heart and questionable ethics. Blore has the *potential* to be a great player. Thats where I see them both at the moment.

I hope you can clarify so I know what it is I will regret in the future.

The way you wrote it made it look like you might have been saying Matterson was better than Blore. I think that is where the misunderstanding is.