America - Gun Control

[earl]

three of the five deadliest shootings in the US have come in the past year.
They are happy to have 15,000 die each year, and double that in injuries. That's more than most NRL crowds. They are immune to the pain that brings, so long as they can have their gun.

This is a disgustingly innacurate post that you should be ashamed to have written. If you possessed any morals you would recant it.

It's 100% factual. You need to look in the mirror and realise what you are happy to condone so long as you can have your guns. Your guns are much more important than human lives including innocent children.

That is your morality. It's not something to be proud of.

 

[magpiecol]

three of the five deadliest shootings in the US have come in the past year.
They are happy to have 15,000 die each year, and double that in injuries. That's more than most NRL crowds. They are immune to the pain that brings, so long as they can have their gun.

This is a disgustingly innacurate post that you should be ashamed to have written. If you possessed any morals you would recant it.

It's 100% factual. You need to look in the mirror and realise what you are happy to condone so long as you can have your guns. Your guns are much more important than human lives including innocent children.

That is your morality. It's not something to be proud of.

God, you people are so far up yourselves that it is not funny. You love the moral high ground. You are so much better and more caring than other people.

Load of garbage.

Back to the basement.

:deadhorse: :deadhorse:

 

[MG1962]

Aside from the fact that neither semi automatic weapons nor 'automatic enablers' are illegal, and there are more than 300,000,000 firearms currently in circulation in the USA (increasing by the day), in practice how does a buy back scheme stop a crazy person killing people with a gun?

So why are you setting a different standard for gun control laws than other laws. Has the DHS stopped terrorism. Has speeding fines stopped speeding?

No.

But both have gone a hell of a long way to mitigating the effects of such activity.

You can't argue with the pro-death by guns people. They are clearly in the wrong but they keep going. It's crazy stuff.

Logic can't exist in tandem with being pro-death by guns.

Less guns = less killings. Simple.

The most stinging element is the refusal to admit much is wrong in the first place. When someone advises you need to be situationally alert when in a house of worship, there is something very wrong somewhere.

The NRA does an exceptional job at twisting facts. For example they argue one problem is that too many illegal weapons come from Mexico, for any effective ban. The reality is (according to the AFT) is too many illegal weapons are moving from the US to Mexico.

But while the biggest pain point we have is a black guy not standing for the national anthem, nothing much is going to change :frowning:

 

[Tigerdon]

three of the five deadliest shootings in the US have come in the past year.
They are happy to have 15,000 die each year, and double that in injuries. That's more than most NRL crowds. They are immune to the pain that brings, so long as they can have their gun.

This is a disgustingly innacurate post that you should be ashamed to have written. If you possessed any morals you would recant it.

Why have you done a head count? Just copied and pasted from News.com.

http://www.news.com.au/world/north-america/multiple-victims-after-texas-church-shooting/news-story/2a56e4c46d786486789273daae989d5e

 

[GNR4LIFE]

The argument that most gun violence over there Is a result of arms acquired illegally doesn't wash. If that's the case, why is there not the same level of gun violence here?

 

[Tigerdon]

http://www.news.com.au/world/north-america/debunked-americas-biggest-gun-control-myth/news-story/8363983181e849f1b25c891b3b6a6cca

Here's so more figures and graphs for Munk, from today's news.

 

[Abraham]

That's a fair comment.

Lets assume for the sake of your argument that by some miracle the USA decides to ban all semi automatic firearms.

The vast majority of these firearms are owned by people for either self defense purposes, or by gun enthusiasts, and not a lot of these guns are registered with any authorities.

So how do you you get someone to hand in a gun that they paid alot of money for, and who has an ideological stance that surrounds that gun, to a government they don't trust, when nobody even knows that they own that gun?

You may get someone who inherited their grandfather's old relic to hand it in. But for the vast majority, they wouldn't even consider handing in their firearm, knowing that it cannot be traced to them.

So even if your gun ban passes, you will still be left with hundreds of millions of untraceable guns in the community, with more pouring over the southern border literally every single day. I don't see how that stops people who want to kill other people, from easily doing so?

It sounds good in theory…. no guns means no killing with guns. But the theory doens't allow for the reality of how many guns will still be in the hands of ordinary citizens, to be used for whatever purpose they want. That's why this is so difficult to tackle, because banning something doesn't make the reality magically disappear .

So legislators create the next step/s, which must always include public education.

Let's say, upon a further (briefer and compensation somewhat reduced) amnesty window ending, harsh penalties be enforced along with property searches etc. Being targeted at rapid fire guns, it will not affect the majority and as such has the chance to get a good few gun owners on board, who in turn may help convince their fellows that it is a good thing. Again, education is the key.

I don't have any expectations on gun control actions being anything other than a long hard slog, both politically and legally. Still, their leadership can choose to get the ball rolling, or decide it is all too hard to stand up to the NRA and stick their heads in the sand yet again.

This is where i believe your suggestion falters on a few levels.

- Aside from its vagueness , 'public education' has never changed a country's culture or ideology.

- A country with a 9 trillion dollar defecit cannot budget to buy back 300,000,000 guns.

-And a government cannot possibly raid the properties of potentially 250 million people when it has no idea who owns these rapid fire guns. Logistically speaking it is nearly impossible to conduct.

As i said to CB, a ban of sorts may be part of a much larger strategy, but the logistics of a ban are something so costly and unmanageable that noone would likely be willing to take it on, when the outcomes would be so uncertain.

Just my opinion.

 

[Munk]

three of the five deadliest shootings in the US have come in the past year.
They are happy to have 15,000 die each year, and double that in injuries. That's more than most NRL crowds. They are immune to the pain that brings, so long as they can have their gun.

This is a disgustingly innacurate post that you should be ashamed to have written. If you possessed any morals you would recant it.

Why have you done a head count? Just copied and pasted from News.com.

http://www.news.com.au/world/north-america/multiple-victims-after-texas-church-shooting/news-story/2a56e4c46d786486789273daae989d5e

It is a disgusting remark to say that the pro gun lobby dont care about the deaths that are caused by these shootings.

 

[Munk]

http://www.news.com.au/world/north-america/debunked-americas-biggest-gun-control-myth/news-story/8363983181e849f1b25c891b3b6a6cca

Here's so more figures and graphs for Munk, from today's news.

Lol mate stop quoting news.com at me, its written by 20 year olds who have never lived outside their parents houses. They used Andy Richter's tweets for god sakes….
Im up to date with most information on this issue.

 

[earl]

three of the five deadliest shootings in the US have come in the past year.
They are happy to have 15,000 die each year, and double that in injuries. That's more than most NRL crowds. They are immune to the pain that brings, so long as they can have their gun.

This is a disgustingly innacurate post that you should be ashamed to have written. If you possessed any morals you would recant it.

It's 100% factual. You need to look in the mirror and realise what you are happy to condone so long as you can have your guns. Your guns are much more important than human lives including innocent children.

That is your morality. It's not something to be proud of.

God, you people are so far up yourselves that it is not funny. You love the moral high ground. You are so much better and more caring than other people.

Load of garbage.

Back to the basement.

:deadhorse: :deadhorse:

I think we can take the high moral ground. We can face the issue whereas the pro-death by guns supporters can't. Another dead kid - oh let's go and pray isn't showing any morals at all.

 

[earl]

three of the five deadliest shootings in the US have come in the past year.
They are happy to have 15,000 die each year, and double that in injuries. That's more than most NRL crowds. They are immune to the pain that brings, so long as they can have their gun.

This is a disgustingly innacurate post that you should be ashamed to have written. If you possessed any morals you would recant it.

Why have you done a head count? Just copied and pasted from News.com.

http://www.news.com.au/world/north-america/multiple-victims-after-texas-church-shooting/news-story/2a56e4c46d786486789273daae989d5e

It is a disgusting remark to say that the pro gun lobby dont care about the deaths that are caused by these shootings.

You don't. Be honest about it. You care a lot more about your guns. You wouldn't give up your guns to save those kids lives. That is where your morals are.

 

[MG1962]

-And a government cannot possibly raid the properties of potentially 250 million people when it has no idea who owns these rapid fire guns. Logistically speaking it is nearly impossible to conduct.

Oh and why is that? Because the NRA has successfully resisted every effort over the last 30 years to create some sort of accountability.

Talk about a self full filling prophecy.

 

[MG1962]

Lol mate stop quoting news.com at me, its written by 20 year olds who have never lived outside their parents houses. They used Andy Richter's tweets for god sakes….
Im up to date with most information on this issue.

Spoken like a true proven liar….......caught once again

 

[Abraham]

-And a government cannot possibly raid the properties of potentially 250 million people when it has no idea who owns these rapid fire guns. Logistically speaking it is nearly impossible to conduct.

Oh and why is that? Because the NRA has successfully resisted every effort over the last 30 years to create some sort of accountability.

Talk about a self full filling prophecy.

Just dealing with the realities.

If you don't know who owns the guns, how do you raid their properties. Go door-to-door raiding every house in the country?

 

[Tigerdon]

http://www.news.com.au/world/north-america/debunked-americas-biggest-gun-control-myth/news-story/8363983181e849f1b25c891b3b6a6cca

Here's so more figures and graphs for Munk, from today's news.

Lol mate stop quoting news.com at me, its written by 20 year olds who have never lived outside their parents houses. They used Andy Richter's tweets for god sakes….
Im up to date with most information on this issue.

I think they are more reputable than an internet nobody.

 

[Abraham]

The facts that have come to light so far regarding this latest shooting, but which may change:

- The killer was dishonorably discharged from the military, meaning he was legally prohibited from owning firearms. This shockingly means that legally banning people from owning guns doesn't stop them from owning guns.

- This was likely a hate crime, as the guy had been ranting continuously on social media against Christians, before entering a Church killing half the people inside.

- Some information that his mother-in-law attended this Church, and this may be why it was specifically targeted.

- His rampage was stopped by a legal gun owner who commenced firing at him, and then gave chase.

 

[Tigerdon]

The facts that have come to light so far regarding this latest shooting, but which may change:

- The killer was dishonorably discharged from the military, meaning he was legally prohibited from owning firearms. This shockingly means that legally banning people from owning guns doesn't stop them from owning guns.

- This was likely a hate crime, as the guy had been ranting continuously on social media against Christians, before entering a Church killing half the people inside.

- Some information that his mother-in-law attended this Church, and this may be why it was specifically targeted.

- His rampage was stopped by a legal gun owner who commenced firing at him, and then gave chase.

Yes. Abraham all correct facts. The problem being their are too many guns in the USA. Anyone (even mentally unstable people) can easily get their hands on assault rifles.

 

[MG1962]

- His rampage was stopped by a legal gun owner who commenced firing at him, and then gave chase.

After he killed 26 people

 

[TCL]

-And a government cannot possibly raid the properties of potentially 250 million people when it has no idea who owns these rapid fire guns. Logistically speaking it is nearly impossible to conduct.

Oh and why is that? Because the NRA has successfully resisted every effort over the last 30 years to create some sort of accountability.

Talk about a self full filling prophecy.

Just dealing with the realities.

If you don't know who owns the guns, how do you raid their properties. Go door-to-door raiding every house in the country?

No sudden change or ban is going to be accepted but at least make a start.

First create a register, ask people to register their weapons either online or through their shooting clubs or how ever. Any rifle sold from a certain date must be registered. Any weapon found that is not on the registry will be confiscated and the person in possession fined (the monetary fine is for a period - say two years or what ever, after that make it a criminal offence to be in possession of an unrigistered or automatic weapon, the severity of punishment to be determined) Offer a surrender armistice or buy back for certain types of weapons for a period of time.

Make it a patriotic thing to do to register your weapon, so those crazies can't take away their right to own a weapon.

We here on the forum are not decision makers nor are we seasoned campaigners so you may not get a solution to the problem from the forum posters. But I certainly have read some logical and reasonable posts on how to go about making change.

But good on you for your efforts in your pro stance. But digging your heals and finding reasons why suggestions won't work is only speculation on your part. It's amazing what happens over time. Look at the bible for example over the years it has taken many forms and versions and now no one really knows the truth but still people believe, the tide is turning now and people are walking away from religion. There is a crisis in faith. People are questioning religion and those that preach it who don't displays the morals that they preach.

A small ripple can turn into a tsunami of change. Why knock every suggestion, is it fear of change or is it fear that it may work.

Oh and I believe in God and believe that all firearms should be illigal and only held by police and armed forces.

 

[MG1962]

Just dealing with the realities.

If you don't know who owns the guns, how do you raid their properties. Go door-to-door raiding every house in the country?

Good thing the people who legislated seat belts in cars didn't think like that or there would still be young children all over America being catapulted through windscreens.