Are you prepared to admit this JV is a failure?

[tig_prmz]

life doesn't exist in success and failure only.
- what makes top 8 the cut off? as i said, since we have existed, we're coming 9th/10th in the total number of wins. if we're a failure then so are the ones below us.
- we havent got a single wooden spoon and yet teams like dogs, roosters, eels etc who have a massive supporter base and money pouring in from every end have won it numerous times.
- not many teams have been able to get a top 4 spot back to back in that period either.

we've finished 9th or 10th on numerous occasions as well… one win here or there and we could've been looing at a 6/15 finals ratio which isnt too bad.

Are we playing in the NRL to win games or it doesn't matter? There's a fine line between success and failure, yes, but I really think it's ridiculous to argue that we haven't been a failure.

What makes top 8 the cut off? Finishing 8th or higher out of 16 teams (smack bang on 50%) and playing in the finals. Anything less is not good enough.

We have made the finals three times in 15 years - is there a club with a worse strike rate in the NRL?

we've finished 9th or 10th on numerous occasions as well… one win here or there and we could've been looing at a 6/15 finals ratio which isnt too bad.

But we haven't - the fact is 3/15.

we are playing nrl to win games and we've many more than other teams.

you're basing that we're a failure on the on field results which are average and in no way do they say that we're failures. ffs we have never come last in 15 years.

in your eyes we might be failures and that's ok but to declare us as failures coz we havent made finals is stupid.

and there is not just a fine line between success and failure. i would only say 2/3 teams as success and probably 2-3 other teams as failures in the last decade and a half and we're somewhere in the middle.

 

[shane2801]

It's all Balmain's fault.

 

[GNR4LIFE]

life doesn't exist in success and failure only.
- what makes top 8 the cut off? as i said, since we have existed, we're coming 9th/10th in the total number of wins. if we're a failure then so are the ones below us.
- we havent got a single wooden spoon and yet teams like dogs, roosters, eels etc who have a massive supporter base and money pouring in from every end have won it numerous times.
- not many teams have been able to get a top 4 spot back to back in that period either.

we've finished 9th or 10th on numerous occasions as well… one win here or there and we could've been looing at a 6/15 finals ratio which isnt too bad.

Are we playing in the NRL to win games or it doesn't matter? There's a fine line between success and failure, yes, but I really think it's ridiculous to argue that we haven't been a failure.

What makes top 8 the cut off? Finishing 8th or higher out of 16 teams (smack bang on 50%) and playing in the finals. Anything less is not good enough.

We have made the finals three times in 15 years - is there a club with a worse strike rate in the NRL?

we've finished 9th or 10th on numerous occasions as well… one win here or there and we could've been looing at a 6/15 finals ratio which isnt too bad.

But we haven't - the fact is 3/15.

we are playing nrl to win games and we've many more than other teams.

you're basing that we're a failure on the on field results which are average and in no way do they say that we're failures. ffs we have never come last in 15 years.

in your eyes we might be failures and that's ok but to declare us as failures coz we havent made finals is stupid.

and there is not just a fine line between success and failure. i would only say 2/3 teams as success and probably 2-3 other teams as failures in the last decade and a half and we're somewhere in the middle.

So because we haven't got a spoon, that means we aren't failures? thats setting an awfully low bar to give ourselves a pass mark cos we've never won a spoon.

Can you name a side in the comp that has a worse finals record since 2000 then us? I bet you can't.

 

[tig_prmz]

lol no one remembers all the 8 teams that have made the finals every year. all you remember are premiers, runner ups and probably wooden spooners.

there was a period with benji where people loved our brand of footy. everyone called us their second favourite team. people loved watching us play. we had the biggest hits on our websites. we had FTA TV coverage all the time. teams like titans, canberra, sharks, cowboys, warriors, panthers and even storm at times struggled to get as many FTA exposure as us.

in your mind, we may be failures and that's fine but i assure you compared to other teams, we've done much better from a neutral person's POV.

i dont have access to those records and i cbf finding them either. you're more than welcome to search.

 

[TrueTiger]

I have said before we are not a failure because of this year being a bad year in terms of
1.Internal garbage that spilled out to the media,
2.Whiteanting and backstabbing Potter for their own personal gain.
3.Internal review at a crucial time mid season.
4Senior players throwing the toys out of the cot because things don't go their way.
Now having said that we are still a very young NRL side in fledgling years .Broncos 26 years old ,Souths foundation club that millionaires rescued otherwise would be gone forever…If we all step back and look what the future could offer,I think we can be in a strong position if the board can sort the garbage out and return to looking after the Wests Tigers as a club even though it is a joint venture as far as the NRL is concerned it is one club fielding a side in the very strong NRL league ......although we all get angry at times my old uncle always used to say PATIENCE IS A VIRTUE.. :brick: 😛ray:

 

[hobbo]

I don't think we've be failures . Disappointing more rather IMO .
Think of it like this .. 8 teams finish first , 7 teams finish second , and 1 team gets the spoon !
Bring back the top 5 !!!!

_Posted using RoarFEED V.4_

 

[hybrid_tiger]

Hybrid Tiger - Really!!!! Maybe a referring decision. or even a bit of bad luck on the day.

Or maybe we just weren't good enough?

We all want our club to be the best that it can be

Do we? Some seem happy to purely exist and don't seem to care if we win games or not.

but as it stands today and as the two clubs that stood before the merge, financial constraints have always played a bearing on the level of success we have been able to achieve. Comparing our current roster with the cashed up clubs like the Roosters and Souths is like lining up A grade against D grade yet we operate under the same salary cap. TPAs make it very difficult for us to compete for elite players and coaches so we have to rely on a good crop of juniors to come through every 4-5 years and hope to god we can keep them. Until the money tree springs up things wont change and if you have been supporting this club long enough you know that's how it works.

All clubs operate under the same salary cap. The difference is that some operate smarter than others.

Some clubs, when they have a poor year or two, put a broom through the place. They don't accept failure, they demand success. Other clubs, like ours, continually make excuses. Injuries, money, TPAs, Balmain and Wests, the list goes on and on.

Yes, TPAs make it tough for us, but so does dud recruitment and poor management - which is what plays a bearing on out success more than anything.

For example, you say we need the money tree to spring up, yet in 2011 our board criminally re-signed Tim Sheens on a fat three year contract. As a result they were still paying him up until this year.

Yes the last six weeks have been horrendous. but we have been copping it enough from fans who support other clubs. So when our own fans argue their right as supporters of this club to call it a failure, and try to convince others of that. that's when we really become a laughing stock. Sorry but I don't call that supporting your club - especially when you even find excuses to under value the success's that we have achieved. I hate losing but I hope as a supporter of this club I hope I never get to the stage that your at.

So you're saying I'm not a supporter of this club, are you?

 

[hybrid_tiger]

life doesn't exist in success and failure only.
- what makes top 8 the cut off? as i said, since we have existed, we're coming 9th/10th in the total number of wins. if we're a failure then so are the ones below us.
- we havent got a single wooden spoon and yet teams like dogs, roosters, eels etc who have a massive supporter base and money pouring in from every end have won it numerous times.
- not many teams have been able to get a top 4 spot back to back in that period either.

we've finished 9th or 10th on numerous occasions as well… one win here or there and we could've been looing at a 6/15 finals ratio which isnt too bad.

Are we playing in the NRL to win games or it doesn't matter? There's a fine line between success and failure, yes, but I really think it's ridiculous to argue that we haven't been a failure.

What makes top 8 the cut off? Finishing 8th or higher out of 16 teams (smack bang on 50%) and playing in the finals. Anything less is not good enough.

We have made the finals three times in 15 years - is there a club with a worse strike rate in the NRL?

we've finished 9th or 10th on numerous occasions as well… one win here or there and we could've been looing at a 6/15 finals ratio which isnt too bad.

But we haven't - the fact is 3/15.

we are playing nrl to win games and we've many more than other teams.

you're basing that we're a failure on the on field results which are average and in no way do they say that we're failures. ffs we have never come last in 15 years.

in your eyes we might be failures and that's ok but to declare us as failures coz we havent made finals is stupid.

and there is not just a fine line between success and failure. i would only say 2/3 teams as success and probably 2-3 other teams as failures in the last decade and a half and we're somewhere in the middle.

We have never come last in 15 years but we have failed to finish in the top half of the competition more than three times. Is this just average?

 

[hybrid_tiger]

there was a period with benji where people loved our brand of footy. everyone called us their second favourite team. people loved watching us play. we had the biggest hits on our websites. we had FTA TV coverage all the time. teams like titans, canberra, sharks, cowboys, warriors, panthers and even storm at times struggled to get as many FTA exposure as us.

Yet this did not translate into sustained on-field success. If anything, it made continual underperformance (missing the finals) excuseable.

 

[tig_prmz]

we've been in the top 10 11/15 seasons.

 

[innsaneink]

life doesn't exist in success and failure only.
- what makes top 8 the cut off? as i said, since we have existed, we're coming 9th/10th in the total number of wins. if we're a failure then so are the ones below us.
- we havent got a single wooden spoon and yet teams like dogs, roosters, eels etc who have a massive supporter base and money pouring in from every end have won it numerous times.
- not many teams have been able to get a top 4 spot back to back in that period either.

we've finished 9th or 10th on numerous occasions as well… one win here or there and we could've been looing at a 6/15 finals ratio which isnt too bad.

Are we playing in the NRL to win games or it doesn't matter? There's a fine line between success and failure, yes, but I really think it's ridiculous to argue that we haven't been a failure.

What makes top 8 the cut off? Finishing 8th or higher out of 16 teams (smack bang on 50%) and playing in the finals. Anything less is not good enough.

We have made the finals three times in 15 years - is there a club with a worse strike rate in the NRL?

we've finished 9th or 10th on numerous occasions as well… one win here or there and we could've been looing at a 6/15 finals ratio which isnt too bad.

But we haven't - the fact is 3/15.

we are playing nrl to win games and we've many more than other teams.

you're basing that we're a failure on the on field results which are average and in no way do they say that we're failures. ffs we have never come last in 15 years.

in your eyes we might be failures and that's ok but to declare us as failures coz we havent made finals is stupid.

and there is not just a fine line between success and failure. i would only say 2/3 teams as success and probably 2-3 other teams as failures in the last decade and a half and we're somewhere in the middle.

So because we haven't got a spoon, that means we aren't failures? thats setting an awfully low bar to give ourselves a pass mark cos we've never won a spoon.

**Can you name a side in the comp that has a worse finals record since 2000 then us? I bet you can't**.

Souths will pass us this year but looking at lot as a whole theres not much overall between us

Souths seasons
http://stats.rleague.com/rl/teams/souths/souths_ss.html

WTs seasons
http://stats.rleague.com/rl/teams/wests_tigers/wests_tigers_ss.html

Back to topic

 

[Geo]

There are also 7 teams that have not won a Comp in the last 15 years..

Premierships is the ultimate success….

 

[Telltails]

Hybrid Tiger - Really!!!! Maybe a referring decision. or even a bit of bad luck on the day.

Or maybe we just weren't good enough?

We all want our club to be the best that it can be

Do we? Some seem happy to purely exist and don't seem to care if we win games or not.

but as it stands today and as the two clubs that stood before the merge, financial constraints have always played a bearing on the level of success we have been able to achieve. Comparing our current roster with the cashed up clubs like the Roosters and Souths is like lining up A grade against D grade yet we operate under the same salary cap. TPAs make it very difficult for us to compete for elite players and coaches so we have to rely on a good crop of juniors to come through every 4-5 years and hope to god we can keep them. Until the money tree springs up things wont change and if you have been supporting this club long enough you know that's how it works.

All clubs operate under the same salary cap. The difference is that some operate smarter than others.

Some clubs, when they have a poor year or two, put a broom through the place. They don't accept failure, they demand success. Other clubs, like ours, continually make excuses. Injuries, money, TPAs, Balmain and Wests, the list goes on and on.

Yes, TPAs make it tough for us, but so does dud recruitment and poor management - which is what plays a bearing on out success more than anything.

For example, you say we need the money tree to spring up, yet in 2011 our board criminally re-signed Tim Sheens on a fat three year contract. As a result they were still paying him up until this year.

Yes the last six weeks have been horrendous. but we have been copping it enough from fans who support other clubs. So when our own fans argue their right as supporters of this club to call it a failure, and try to convince others of that. that's when we really become a laughing stock. Sorry but I don't call that supporting your club - especially when you even find excuses to under value the success's that we have achieved. I hate losing but I hope as a supporter of this club I hope I never get to the stage that your at.

So you're saying I'm not a supporter of this club, are you?

Every club can own a bad business decision and Stephen Humphries paid the price for his- however at the time when he re -signed Tim Sheens we were fravelling well in the competition and Penrith had also made him a huge offer. We cleaned out significant players in 2011/12 which some supporters were in favour of and others were not. TPAS have everything to do with our ability to recruit why do you think players have managers for? Our hope for success is our juniors, Things may change in the future if we are able to attract a Russell Crowe or Nick Politis and lets not forget that it was Jamie Packer who helped get Penrith out of financial trouble after Phil Gould approached him. But you keep screaming out what a failure we are,cause that is an incentive for juniors to aspire to play with this club. You have offered no answers or constructive suggestions, and like I said before are loathe to even acknowledge our success"s. You say you are a supporter I am not going to argue about that - you are just not the type of supporter that I want to be and I don't support or agree with your incessant desire to convince others that Wests Tigers is a failure. But good luck with that if you really think it is useful and will benefit our club that we support.

 

[NT_Tiger]

Quote Hybrid Tiger, "Some clubs, when they have a poor year or two, put a broom through the place. They don't accept failure, they demand success. Other clubs, like ours, continually make excuses. Injuries, money, TPAs, Balmain and Wests, the list goes on and on."

I have a problem with this statement. What you have listed are reasons, I.E. causal factors, not excuses.
Could we field our first pick 17 through this year? No, many players, including the captain at one point, were missing due to injury (causal factor).
Does the standard of our training facilities contribute to the injury list? Probably Yes (causal factor). Do we have the money to bring that up to standard? No.
Do we have a large number of new, inexperienced players in our ranks? Yes. Is that due to salary cap and TPA's? Probably Yes.
Is there infighting between Wests/Balmain factions at board level? Yes. Does this influence on-field performance? According to the players, Yes.

Wests Tigers have started with the big broom. That included sacking the past CEO and Coach, with a big payout. Hmm, there's that money thing again. We still have some under performing senior players, either due to past or current injuries. Hmm, there's that injury thing again. Some are on long term contracts so we can't 'sweep them away' or we have to continue paying them. Hmm, money again.

We are still paying the price for decisions made years ago and it is not as simple as 'the big broom'. Especially when the mob squabbling over the broom can't decide where to sweep. Bring on the changes to the board. A couple of good business decision makers could make a world of difference.

 

[hybrid_tiger]

Every club can own a bad business decision and Stephen Humphreys paid the price for his- however at the time when he re -signed Tim Sheens we were fravelling well in the competition and Penrith had also made him a huge offer.

The decision to re-sign him on that amount of money was a very poor one because he was still under contract until the end of 2012\. There was no need to offer him a new contract especially since 2010 was the first time he had made the finals in the previous five seasons.

That contract extension was simply rewarding mediocrity - he should have been made to earn an extension but that is not how things work at this club. Sheens lived off his 2005 success for years with no further incentive to perform.

TPAS have everything to do with our ability to recruit why do you think players have managers for? Our hope for success is our juniors, Things may change in the future if we are able to attract a Russell Crowe or Nick Politis and lets not forget that it was Jamie Packer who helped get Penrith out of financial trouble after Phil Gould approached him.

TPAs is ONE component of our ability to recruit but not the only one. The fact is our recruitment has been poor for many years, yet there seems to have been very little change in this area. (Warren McDonnell).

But you keep screaming out what a failure we are,cause that is an incentive for juniors to aspire to play with this club. You have offered no answers or constructive suggestions, and like I said before are loathe to even acknowledge our success"s. You say you are a supporter I am not going to argue about that - you are just not the type of supporter that I want to be and I don't support or agree with your incessant desire to convince others that Wests Tigers is a failure. But good luck with that if you really think it is useful and will benefit our club that we support.

I am pointing out my opinion, no more, no less. If you think Wests Tigers are a successful club then that is your opinion, but I disagree and I think there is a wealth of evidence to suggest that is simply not the case.

Anyway, instead of attacking me as a supporter and claiming you're a better fan of this club than I am, try and stick to the topic. It's not too much to ask.

 

[hybrid_tiger]

Could we field our first pick 17 through this year? No, many players, including the captain at one point, were missing due to injury (causal factor).

Could Penrith pick their first 17 through this year? No, many players were missing due to injury.

Look, I have never denied that our injuries have played a part in our demise this year. But I am sick of using this as an excuse every single year. We don't deal with injuries as well as most other clubs. We crumble at the first sign of adversity.

 

[Basil_Tiger]

Could Penrith pick their first 17 through this year? No, many players were missing due to injury.

Look, I have never denied that our injuries have played a part in our demise this year. But I am sick of using this as an excuse every single year. We don't deal with injuries as well as most other clubs. We crumble at the first sign of adversity.

Yep,its not only the Team but the JV as a whole,we have no soul,the cracks and personal agenda's are papered over when we have a few wins but as soon as the going gets tough the whole structure of the players and officials start disintergrating,its been going on ever since the two Clubs merged.

 

[NT_Tiger]

I take your point 'Hybrid' and fair enough. Our injury rate frustrates and concerns me, and as you point out it is every year. I don't want to continue seeing half the team on the sideline every year let alone another Tiuaki, Dwyer or Fulton.
But it is not an excuse it is real. The club needs to take actions to fix the situation before the injuries happen. Hopefully board changes will address the issues that lead to the poor attitude.

 

[hybrid_tiger]

I take your point 'Hybrid' and fair enough. Our injury rate frustrates and concerns me, and as you point out it is every year. I don't want to continue seeing half the team on the sideline every year let alone another Tiuaki, Dwyer or Fulton.
But it is not an excuse it is real. The club needs to take actions to fix the situation before the injuries happen. Hopefully board changes will address the issues that lead to the poor attitude.

Yes, we can only hope. It can't be a coincidence that we have an insane amount of injuries almost every season.

 

[Telltails]

Hybrid T - have not ever said we are a great success but have argued against that we are a failure. We have enjoyed some successful years thanks to the Benji/ Farah and Tim Sheens years. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, and when we re -signed Tim Sheens he had just had one of his most successful years and we were also in a very good position on the table, with the knowledge that Penrith had made a huge offer - no doubt giving him some additional bargaining power. A decision had to be made one which at the time I think most fans were relieved about. He is the current Australian Coach so you would have to agree that he is still held in high regard with in the Rugby League community. I am sorry if you feel I have attacked you - that was not my intention - but if you air a strong a viewpoint on a fan forum like you have, be prepared for people to react. I tried to argue against your position based on the reasons you gave for forming that opinion all relevant to the topic - and never said I am a better fan then you - just one that strongly disagrees with you.