Are you prepared to admit this JV is a failure?

@Telltails said:
Hybrid T - have not ever said we are a great success but have argued against that we are a failure. We have enjoyed some successful years thanks to the Benji/ Farah and Tim Sheens years.

I think the issue here is that you view "success" differently than me. For me a successful team in this competition is a consistently competitive one - since there has only been three seasons in 15 where we have finished in the top half of the competition, we have not delivered.

If "failure" is too harsh of a word, then surely you should agree that this club has drastically under-performed on the field? I don't care that we were once popular on TV, I want to win games. I want to be consistently competitive every year, not just once every decade.

@Telltails said:
Hindsight is a wonderful thing, and when we re -signed Tim Sheens he had just had one of his most successful years and we were also in a very good position on the table, with the knowledge that Penrith had made a huge offer - no doubt giving him some additional bargaining power. A decision had to be made one which at the time I think most fans were relieved about. He is the current Australian Coach so you would have to agree that he is still held in high regard with in the Rugby League community.

If I remember correctly, many fans (myself included) were hoping that Sheens accepted the Penrith offer. He shouldn't have had the amount of bargaining power that he did given his coaching performance from 2006 onwards. But the club did not see it this way and became scared, giving him an undeserved extension.

Sheens may be the Australian coach and clearly has friends in the right places, but IMO his time was well and truly over long before his employment ended with the Wests Tigers. The problem for Sheens was that he lived off his 2005 success for way too long and our management let him.

@Telltails said:
I am sorry if you feel I have attacked you - that was not my intention - but if you air a strong a viewpoint on a fan forum like you have, be prepared for people to react. I tried to argue against your position based on the reasons you gave for forming that opinion all relevant to the topic - and never said I am a better fan then you - just one that strongly disagrees with you.

Fair enough.
 
I'm surprised people are quick to dismiss injuries as an excuse when winning the comp involves using the least amount of players through the year. Even if you leave out all the off field rubbish thats gone on this year are people seriously thinking we would of had a chance this year? We were gone months ago and no team in the comp would have done better than us in same circumstances. And the constant media bashing after every loss is growing tired like they expect the tigers to be winning games. I know people dont like seeing it but the team has clocked off knowing they cant make the finals, i probably would too why risk injuries this late in the season when you're no chance of going far in September? Think freakonomics.
 
I want to just put my 2 bobs worth into the salary cap discussion.

Theoretically it is fair.

However, it is fairer to some more than to others.

Players will sign for one of the "stronger" clubs for far less than other clubs. Likewise, they will sign with a "lesser" club but for considerable 'overs'.

The "stronger" clubs have more TPA takers than others. Why is this? Isn't the fact TPA's are not supposedly to be linked, in any way, to that club?

Why does a club like the Bronco's always get favourable draws? (regular weekly Friday slots). The reply is that if the TV company is paying big dollars then they can shape the draw as they please. Maybe, but yet again it shows that all things are not even. And yet the NRL tell us that all clubs are even stakeholders. Only when it suits, methinks.

Nuff said

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Administratively, this JV has been an abortion. This has permeated the football operations and (lack of) on-field success.
 
I apologise upfront, that this is so long,
But As someone who has mainly read the posts on here over the last few years, I finally become so disgusted with some of the so called supporters , that I am going to air my opinion on it as well.

Just so you know, I come from the Wests side of the J\V, so you can get all the calls of "Fossil, "Dinosaur"and any other insults out of the way now. It seems to be the custom whenever anyone even mildly criticises the J\v. I realise from the tone of some posters here, that I'm one of the age group that should just roll over now and wait to be euthanased, so that our opinions dont taint the kiddies opinion of the club. Well Sorry , Tough Luck.
My second club was Balmain, so when we joined , I was quite happy about the deal . I also am aware that Balmain were in a better position than Wests (at that time).However that position apparently, has now been reversed, and while I am happy for the J\v to now carry Balmain for a while,if necessary, That should not however be a long term thing.
From what I can see (and correct me if I'm wrong) the future for Balmain is not looking good in the long term. No J\V business can survive for long if only one half of the Venture is Financially Viable .
So No! I dont see it surviving, at least in it's present structure.

An even bigger problem from my point of view , is the rubbish that is being put on our club Captain over the comments of a rating hungry grub on a trash tv show (along with his grubby mate)
Just what has Farah done that was so wrong???
He was accused of saying ( In a private conversation over 12 months ago) that "Potter can't coach,' Robbie denied saying that and on at least 4 occasions he repeated that he may have said that "Potter was struggling ) and also that "we are all struggling at the moment" Which is much different to "Potter Cant coach"
Having set himself up as a paragon of "integrity", I would have imagined that if that statement was untrue , that Tallis would have been bleating everywhere that Farah was a liar. Tallis has not denied that that was the comment at any stage at all so I would assume that it is closer to the truth.
The other problem was that Robbies Manager made a mountain out of a mole hill by even talking to Tallis on radio. (not Farah).
Rothfield than decided to hammer Wests and Farah with the biggest b\sh*t story of this year, Remember the statements that no player likes Farah and they were not going to re sign if he stayed, Hello !!! all players that were wanted have signed, Rothfield must have become tired of trying to attack Gus Gould ,as he has done over the last couple of years to no avail, and has now decided that Wests are his favourite target and Farah has the bullseye on him now.
Then the vultures in our own club started, " Farah has to go' "Hes a crap captain", "Get rid of Farah"
"He's Undermining Potter"etc.
In all the pressies this year I have not seen anything that would show any of thatas reality It has always looked like they have a reasonable Player Coach relationship. But even a joke between them about Farah talking to Potter about Moses was pulled out as evidence of a full scale mutiny against Potter
You have got to be kidding!!!!
Some people on here have very short memories.
It was only a few months ago that Farah was at least responsible to some degree in helping to change James Tedesco mind when he was all but gone , and even some of his biggest detractors were saying how good that was. Lucky that he gave an opinion then was'nt it??

For years Farah has been one of the few constantly high standard players in the Club and has always put the club first. He stayed when he could easily have left for a number of higher profile clubs and even more money .
And now we have the genius regular Farah bashers calling for him to go .Yes that's right, Let's get rid of one of the two best hookers in the game,and our most consistent player . We are obviously so awash with a terrific amount of high class experienced ,consistent players That we can give a player such as Farah to another club.
Oh That's right, we have one poster on here recently saying that soon we will have a great spine in the team Tedesco, Brooks, Moses and Cherrington.

Probably the same posters that over the last seasons were singing the praises of Luani, Well that worked out well , didnt it?
Maybe in a few seasons Cherrington may prove to be up to First grade standard ,(I hope he does)
But meanwhile It's a long way from the 20,s and we already have an extremely good Captain and Hooker and even our disfunctional Board wouldnt be so dopey as to let him go,

Potter
The ironic thing is that after all the outpourings about what a great bloke Potter is , (and that seems to be correct)He has been given a leave pass that nothing that happens in this club is his responsibility, No matter what we play like, some of our supporters think it's always someone elses fault.
I dont know whether he's a good coach or not , but as long as he is here , whenever we hit a crook patch(and no matter how we are going we always seem to find one consistently ) all the same things will be dragged up all over again ,Like him or not.
I just would like to see someone that has ideas about how the team should play and is capable of putting them on the field with some sort of structure to do that.
He's had two years (admittedly under difficulties) but how many more years are we going to waste before trying someone else?

Club Future
I have read posts about going back to Wests Magpies, dropping Leichardt Oval ,moving to Perth Etc, and read posters saying that they would not support the club if it did any of those things.
What some of you understandably want is a club to go and watch every game that you can.Cant argue with that, but does that make you a supporter,
As someone who was heavily involved with Wests over a long period, I moved away from Sydney years ago , and since Get to see the Tigers maybe 0nly three of four times a year(live ) I also watch every other Tigers game on tv each week,
If you really support this club like a lot of of you say you do it shouldnt matter where we play or what we wear of what we are called, If you live in Sydney there will still be plenty of Tigers games on there even if the club did ever move.
I just want to see this club become as good as it possibly can get,and lose the mediocrity thats become acceptable in the club .And if that means moving to stay alive or changing our name , then that's a small price to pay .
 
@goldcoast tiger said:
I apologise upfront, that this is so long,
But As someone who has mainly read the posts on here over the last few years, I finally become so disgusted with some of the so called supporters , that I am going to air my opinion on it as well.

Just so you know, I come from the Wests side of the J\V, so you can get all the calls of "Fossil, "Dinosaur"and any other insults out of the way now. It seems to be the custom whenever anyone even mildly criticises the J\v. I realise from the tone of some posters here, that I'm one of the age group that should just roll over now and wait to be euthanased, so that our opinions dont taint the kiddies opinion of the club. Well Sorry , Tough Luck.
My second club was Balmain, so when we joined , I was quite happy about the deal . I also am aware that Balmain were in a better position than Wests (at that time).However that position apparently, has now been reversed, and while I am happy for the J\v to now carry Balmain for a while,if necessary, That should not however be a long term thing.
From what I can see (and correct me if I'm wrong) the future for Balmain is not looking good in the long term. No J\V business can survive for long if only one half of the Venture is Financially Viable .
So No! I dont see it surviving, at least in it's present structure.

An even bigger problem from my point of view , is the rubbish that is being put on our club Captain over the comments of a rating hungry grub on a trash tv show (along with his grubby mate)
Just what has Farah done that was so wrong???
He was accused of saying ( In a private conversation over 12 months ago) that "Potter can't coach,' Robbie denied saying that and on at least 4 occasions he repeated that he may have said that "Potter was struggling ) and also that "we are all struggling at the moment" Which is much different to "Potter Cant coach"
Having set himself up as a paragon of "integrity", I would have imagined that if that statement was untrue , that Tallis would have been bleating everywhere that Farah was a liar. Tallis has not denied that that was the comment at any stage at all so I would assume that it is closer to the truth.
The other problem was that Robbies Manager made a mountain out of a mole hill by even talking to Tallis on radio. (not Farah).
Rothfield than decided to hammer Wests and Farah with the biggest b\sh*t story of this year, Remember the statements that no player likes Farah and they were not going to re sign if he stayed, Hello !!! all players that were wanted have signed, Rothfield must have become tired of trying to attack Gus Gould ,as he has done over the last couple of years to no avail, and has now decided that Wests are his favourite target and Farah has the bullseye on him now.
Then the vultures in our own club started, " Farah has to go' "Hes a crap captain", "Get rid of Farah"
"He's Undermining Potter"etc.
In all the pressies this year I have not seen anything that would show any of thatas reality It has always looked like they have a reasonable Player Coach relationship. But even a joke between them about Farah talking to Potter about Moses was pulled out as evidence of a full scale mutiny against Potter
You have got to be kidding!!!!
Some people on here have very short memories.
It was only a few months ago that Farah was at least responsible to some degree in helping to change James Tedesco mind when he was all but gone , and even some of his biggest detractors were saying how good that was. Lucky that he gave an opinion then was'nt it??

For years Farah has been one of the few constantly high standard players in the Club and has always put the club first. He stayed when he could easily have left for a number of higher profile clubs and even more money .
And now we have the genius regular Farah bashers calling for him to go .Yes that's right, Let's get rid of one of the two best hookers in the game,and our most consistent player . We are obviously so awash with a terrific amount of high class experienced ,consistent players That we can give a player such as Farah to another club.
Oh That's right, we have one poster on here recently saying that soon we will have a great spine in the team Tedesco, Brooks, Moses and Cherrington.

Probably the same posters that over the last seasons were singing the praises of Luani, Well that worked out well , didnt it?
Maybe in a few seasons Cherrington may prove to be up to First grade standard ,(I hope he does)
But meanwhile It's a long way from the 20,s and we already have an extremely good Captain and Hooker and even our disfunctional Board wouldnt be so dopey as to let him go,

Potter
The ironic thing is that after all the outpourings about what a great bloke Potter is , (and that seems to be correct)He has been given a leave pass that nothing that happens in this club is his responsibility, No matter what we play like, some of our supporters think it's always someone elses fault.
I dont know whether he's a good coach or not , but as long as he is here , whenever we hit a crook patch(and no matter how we are going we always seem to find one consistently ) all the same things will be dragged up all over again ,Like him or not.
I just would like to see someone that has ideas about how the team should play and is capable of putting them on the field with some sort of structure to do that.
He's had two years (admittedly under difficulties) but how many more years are we going to waste before trying someone else?

Club Future
I have read posts about going back to Wests Magpies, dropping Leichardt Oval ,moving to Perth Etc, and read posters saying that they would not support the club if it did any of those things.
What some of you understandably want is a club to go and watch every game that you can.Cant argue with that, but does that make you a supporter,
As someone who was heavily involved with Wests over a long period, I moved away from Sydney years ago , and since Get to see the Tigers maybe 0nly three of four times a year(live ) I also watch every other Tigers game on tv each week,
If you really support this club like a lot of of you say you do it shouldnt matter where we play or what we wear of what we are called, If you live in Sydney there will still be plenty of Tigers games on there even if the club did ever move.
I just want to see this club become as good as it possibly can get,and lose the mediocrity thats become acceptable in the club .And if that means moving to stay alive or changing our name , then that's a small price to pay .

War & Peace

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@goldcoast tiger said:
If you really support this club like a lot of of you say you do it shouldnt matter where we play or what we wear of what we are called, If you live in Sydney there will still be plenty of Tigers games on there even if the club did ever move.
I just want to see this club become as good as it possibly can get,and lose the mediocrity thats become acceptable in the club .And if that means moving to stay alive or changing our name , then that's a small price to pay .

Your post was a good one but I can't agree with this.

I happily supported the merger but if after 15 years they packed us up and shipped us off to Perth, sorry but that would be the last straw for me and I would give up the game.

Hopefully it will never come to this.
 
The club still exists, and until it ceases to, it won't be a failure.

Just remind yourselves what the future looked for Balmain and Wests pre-merger.
 
Being a failure is relative, do we want to just exist or do you want a club that is not the laughing stock of the NRL. Any thing that will build a club with some substance will be better than what we have now. Look at today's news as an example. Penrith were in trouble( like us) and they headhunted phil Gould. . We put a lame add on Seek .
that's going to drag in quality.
I'd also prefer not to have the club re locate, but anything is a possibility.
 
Why do people constantly throw us up as candidates for relocation. Do you people not realize the JV made us exempt from ever having to relocate cos both Wests and Balmain already made their sacrifice. We're not being relocated, ever.
 
@GNR4LIFE said:
Why do people constantly throw us up as candidates for relocation. Do you people not realize the JV made us exempt from ever having to relocate cos both Wests and Balmain already made their sacrifice. We're not being relocated, ever.

GNR Just trying to cut back on some of my travelling time and costs

Don't you think it fair seeing you guys and gals have had the WT's for 15 years that you share it around and don't be so greedy ??
 
@GNR4LIFE said:
Why do people constantly throw us up as candidates for relocation. Do you people not realize the JV made us exempt from ever having to relocate cos both Wests and Balmain already made their sacrifice. We're not being relocated, ever.

If one of the partners drops out then that may change This is the Nrl anything can and does happen
 
How could this joint venture be a failure….the club has never had a wooden spoon....the club has won a premiership.....
The failure is with the people that have run the club, the failure was the constant drive to divide then supporter base ,the failure was not making the decision to play from one ground, the failure was not to have a progression plan to gradually integrate the organisation of 2 to an organisation of 1 over a ten year period or less .
The scary part of the whole scenario is could you imagine where this organisation WOULD of been now if all party's had pulled together from the get go that is the reality and it was wasted .if you want to know who the failures were you do not have to look far!
 
You are right about the reasons , but they are also part of the reasons that we are a failure . We should be a great club, two sets of supporters , a healthy leagues club, great junior base in the west etc. yet every time we start to show something at all we dive back into mediocrity and start to fire off excuses rather than look for some sort of consistent improvement
While loving the fact that we won in 2005, even then we were incredibly erratic throughout that season, one week good , the next terrible.
I agree that the board and bad decisions are probably the biggest single reason for the mess that is Wests, but as it's almost impossible to get a complete new board( because of the structure) that's unlikely to change. Even worst , who would want to come to the club unless we give them a truckload of money above what they are worth.?
 
Even Farah was quoted over the weekend saying "We set out to make the top eight, as every other team does, and we haven't done that so we've got to consider the season a failure because we're not playing semi finals footy."

Going by that logic we have failed a lot in 15 years.
 
@DavidDuncan said:
Even Farah was quoted over the weekend saying "We set out to make the top eight, as every other team does, and we haven't done that so we've got to consider the season a failure because we're not playing semi finals footy."

Going by that logic we have failed a lot in 15 years.

Well put Dave

Someone asked earlier in the thread how we measure success or failure

Pretty good measurement

OK we improved , but it wasn't an acceptable improvement , even in the eyes of the players
 
Trouble is they say same old things year in and year out.

I'm sick of hearing "it's not good enough", or "unacceptable", or "if we don't make the eight the season is a failure". We need actions not words. That means just shut up and play with heart and commitment.
 
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