ARLC scraps anthem

[gallagher]

I'm surprised at the response to this. The anthem signifies something negative to Indigenous people. I suppose it's hard for them to connect with when they're witness to a system which they see as marginalising them and their interests. Maybe they should shut that away and sing it anyway? Look how outraged we all get because they don't want to sing our song. While I don't think we're particularly good at recognising their traditions. Already on here we see negative attitudes towards smoke ceremonies and welcome to country. It would be nice if all Australians could have a greater sense of connection to the country, the flag and the anthem but I don't think it has to be imposed on people. As a republican, I don't like the flag and I wouldn't wear it. I'm just not proud of our connection to the monarchy and the union jack. Do you have to be patriotic to be a good citizen? The flag, the anthem are just constructs. It's only been our anthem since 1978. Indigenous people were recognised as Australian citizens in 1967. I get where they're coming from. And I'm not against Australia or wishing I was somewhere else, I just think our country, like all countries, has unresolved issues.

Cody Waller says the anthem doesn't represent him or his family. Well welcome to country doesn't represent me or my family, so why should I respect it?

You're making the exact argument he is to argue that he shouldn't take that stance.

So you think we are both right or both wrong?

I think you're both entitled to say what you want. We're talking about cultural ceremonies here. These are our collective ceremonies, they mean different things to people. I don't see why welcome to country offends you. Care to explain? Not having a go, I just don't get it.

It doesn't. But if we all take the stance that we only respect things that directly represents our families then we'd end up in a pretty crapy country.

Sure, but I think the issue for the Indigenous people is that the anthem represents a lot to them. It hurts them, they don't have pride in it. It's come to be associated with the things in Australian society that they feel marginalise them. I don't know, I don't want to speak for Indigenous people. But I don't find it hard to see why they don't like the anthem, and I'm not sure why you want them to sing it. How does it help?

What part do you think they don't they like?

I have heard indigenous people say they feel the young and free doesn't acknowledge their heritage with the land and the free doesn't represent them!

Do you think a change in lyrics would satisfy?

:::

Spoiler Text

:::

 

[watersider]

I'm surprised at the response to this. The anthem signifies something negative to Indigenous people. I suppose it's hard for them to connect with when they're witness to a system which they see as marginalising them and their interests. Maybe they should shut that away and sing it anyway? Look how outraged we all get because they don't want to sing our song. While I don't think we're particularly good at recognising their traditions. Already on here we see negative attitudes towards smoke ceremonies and welcome to country. It would be nice if all Australians could have a greater sense of connection to the country, the flag and the anthem but I don't think it has to be imposed on people. As a republican, I don't like the flag and I wouldn't wear it. I'm just not proud of our connection to the monarchy and the union jack. Do you have to be patriotic to be a good citizen? The flag, the anthem are just constructs. It's only been our anthem since 1978. Indigenous people were recognised as Australian citizens in 1967. I get where they're coming from. And I'm not against Australia or wishing I was somewhere else, I just think our country, like all countries, has unresolved issues.

Cody Waller says the anthem doesn't represent him or his family. Well welcome to country doesn't represent me or my family, so why should I respect it?

You're making the exact argument he is to argue that he shouldn't take that stance.

So you think we are both right or both wrong?

I think you're both entitled to say what you want. We're talking about cultural ceremonies here. These are our collective ceremonies, they mean different things to people. I don't see why welcome to country offends you. Care to explain? Not having a go, I just don't get it.

It doesn't. But if we all take the stance that we only respect things that directly represents our families then we'd end up in a pretty crapy country.

Sure, but I think the issue for the Indigenous people is that the anthem represents a lot to them. It hurts them, they don't have pride in it. It's come to be associated with the things in Australian society that they feel marginalise them. I don't know, I don't want to speak for Indigenous people. But I don't find it hard to see why they don't like the anthem, and I'm not sure why you want them to sing it. How does it help?

What part do you think they don't they like?

In the lyrics? I'm not sure. Notion of the nation as a 'young' country? Maybe the suggestion 'We've boundless plains to share' when there's been no treaty or recognition of dispossession. When incarceration rates remain ridiculously high for Indigenous people it might be hard for them to sing 'let us all combine', especially considering the White Australia Policy and the Stolen Generation. But I think what offends more than the words is the singing of a song of patriotism when they don't feel that sense of patriotism. I don't think they find it easy to celebrate the state of the nation as it is today.

Not singing the anthem won't change the state of the nation.

So why does it matter if they choose not to sing it?

 

[JD Tiger]

I'm surprised at the response to this. The anthem signifies something negative to Indigenous people. I suppose it's hard for them to connect with when they're witness to a system which they see as marginalising them and their interests. Maybe they should shut that away and sing it anyway? Look how outraged we all get because they don't want to sing our song. While I don't think we're particularly good at recognising their traditions. Already on here we see negative attitudes towards smoke ceremonies and welcome to country. It would be nice if all Australians could have a greater sense of connection to the country, the flag and the anthem but I don't think it has to be imposed on people. As a republican, I don't like the flag and I wouldn't wear it. I'm just not proud of our connection to the monarchy and the union jack. Do you have to be patriotic to be a good citizen? The flag, the anthem are just constructs. It's only been our anthem since 1978. Indigenous people were recognised as Australian citizens in 1967. I get where they're coming from. And I'm not against Australia or wishing I was somewhere else, I just think our country, like all countries, has unresolved issues.

Cody Waller says the anthem doesn't represent him or his family. Well welcome to country doesn't represent me or my family, so why should I respect it?

You're making the exact argument he is to argue that he shouldn't take that stance.

So you think we are both right or both wrong?

I think you're both entitled to say what you want. We're talking about cultural ceremonies here. These are our collective ceremonies, they mean different things to people. I don't see why welcome to country offends you. Care to explain? Not having a go, I just don't get it.

It doesn't. But if we all take the stance that we only respect things that directly represents our families then we'd end up in a pretty crapy country.

Sure, but I think the issue for the Indigenous people is that the anthem represents a lot to them. It hurts them, they don't have pride in it. It's come to be associated with the things in Australian society that they feel marginalise them. I don't know, I don't want to speak for Indigenous people. But I don't find it hard to see why they don't like the anthem, and I'm not sure why you want them to sing it. How does it help?

What part do you think they don't they like?

In the lyrics? I'm not sure. Notion of the nation as a 'young' country? Maybe the suggestion 'We've boundless plains to share' when there's been no treaty or recognition of dispossession. When incarceration rates remain ridiculously high for Indigenous people it might be hard for them to sing 'let us all combine', especially considering the White Australia Policy and the Stolen Generation. But I think what offends more than the words is the singing of a song of patriotism when they don't feel that sense of patriotism. I don't think they find it easy to celebrate the state of the nation as it is today.

Well doesnt that mean they wouldnt be happy with just about any song chosen for our anthem? Our anthem is about celebrating Australia, and it sounds to me like they just arent happy with Australia. Same as the issue with Australia Day (imo).

I dont mean to be offensive. The song is meant to be something we can all unite behind. Im sorry some people dont fell united, or don't feel that they've been given a fair go. I'm sure they haven't been given a fair go, both historically and currently, and I get that protesting against the anthem and Australia Day may be the only means they have to air their just grievances. I just dont like the moral outrage culture developing sround the world at present, and hope that this isnt a case of that as it does look like it sometimes.

 

[cochise]

I'm surprised at the response to this. The anthem signifies something negative to Indigenous people. I suppose it's hard for them to connect with when they're witness to a system which they see as marginalising them and their interests. Maybe they should shut that away and sing it anyway? Look how outraged we all get because they don't want to sing our song. While I don't think we're particularly good at recognising their traditions. Already on here we see negative attitudes towards smoke ceremonies and welcome to country. It would be nice if all Australians could have a greater sense of connection to the country, the flag and the anthem but I don't think it has to be imposed on people. As a republican, I don't like the flag and I wouldn't wear it. I'm just not proud of our connection to the monarchy and the union jack. Do you have to be patriotic to be a good citizen? The flag, the anthem are just constructs. It's only been our anthem since 1978. Indigenous people were recognised as Australian citizens in 1967. I get where they're coming from. And I'm not against Australia or wishing I was somewhere else, I just think our country, like all countries, has unresolved issues.

Cody Waller says the anthem doesn't represent him or his family. Well welcome to country doesn't represent me or my family, so why should I respect it?

You're making the exact argument he is to argue that he shouldn't take that stance.

So you think we are both right or both wrong?

I think you're both entitled to say what you want. We're talking about cultural ceremonies here. These are our collective ceremonies, they mean different things to people. I don't see why welcome to country offends you. Care to explain? Not having a go, I just don't get it.

It doesn't. But if we all take the stance that we only respect things that directly represents our families then we'd end up in a pretty crapy country.

Sure, but I think the issue for the Indigenous people is that the anthem represents a lot to them. It hurts them, they don't have pride in it. It's come to be associated with the things in Australian society that they feel marginalise them. I don't know, I don't want to speak for Indigenous people. But I don't find it hard to see why they don't like the anthem, and I'm not sure why you want them to sing it. How does it help?

What part do you think they don't they like?

I have heard indigenous people say they feel the young and free doesn't acknowledge their heritage with the land and the free doesn't represent them!

Do you think a change in lyrics would satisfy?

:::

Spoiler Text

:::

I don't know as I am not indigenous but is probably unlikely as the song was orginally used to promote groups advocating white Australia beliefs.

 

[gallagher]

I'm surprised at the response to this. The anthem signifies something negative to Indigenous people. I suppose it's hard for them to connect with when they're witness to a system which they see as marginalising them and their interests. Maybe they should shut that away and sing it anyway? Look how outraged we all get because they don't want to sing our song. While I don't think we're particularly good at recognising their traditions. Already on here we see negative attitudes towards smoke ceremonies and welcome to country. It would be nice if all Australians could have a greater sense of connection to the country, the flag and the anthem but I don't think it has to be imposed on people. As a republican, I don't like the flag and I wouldn't wear it. I'm just not proud of our connection to the monarchy and the union jack. Do you have to be patriotic to be a good citizen? The flag, the anthem are just constructs. It's only been our anthem since 1978. Indigenous people were recognised as Australian citizens in 1967. I get where they're coming from. And I'm not against Australia or wishing I was somewhere else, I just think our country, like all countries, has unresolved issues.

Cody Waller says the anthem doesn't represent him or his family. Well welcome to country doesn't represent me or my family, so why should I respect it?

You're making the exact argument he is to argue that he shouldn't take that stance.

So you think we are both right or both wrong?

I think you're both entitled to say what you want. We're talking about cultural ceremonies here. These are our collective ceremonies, they mean different things to people. I don't see why welcome to country offends you. Care to explain? Not having a go, I just don't get it.

It doesn't. But if we all take the stance that we only respect things that directly represents our families then we'd end up in a pretty crapy country.

Sure, but I think the issue for the Indigenous people is that the anthem represents a lot to them. It hurts them, they don't have pride in it. It's come to be associated with the things in Australian society that they feel marginalise them. I don't know, I don't want to speak for Indigenous people. But I don't find it hard to see why they don't like the anthem, and I'm not sure why you want them to sing it. How does it help?

What part do you think they don't they like?

I have heard indigenous people say they feel the young and free doesn't acknowledge their heritage with the land and the free doesn't represent them!

Do you think a change in lyrics would satisfy?

:::

Spoiler Text

:::

I don't know as I am not indigenous but is probably unlikely as the song was orginally used to promote groups advocating white Australia beliefs.

I think if they put up an alternative anthem and a alternative national day the at least it would be something to consider.

 

[gallagher]

I'm surprised at the response to this. The anthem signifies something negative to Indigenous people. I suppose it's hard for them to connect with when they're witness to a system which they see as marginalising them and their interests. Maybe they should shut that away and sing it anyway? Look how outraged we all get because they don't want to sing our song. While I don't think we're particularly good at recognising their traditions. Already on here we see negative attitudes towards smoke ceremonies and welcome to country. It would be nice if all Australians could have a greater sense of connection to the country, the flag and the anthem but I don't think it has to be imposed on people. As a republican, I don't like the flag and I wouldn't wear it. I'm just not proud of our connection to the monarchy and the union jack. Do you have to be patriotic to be a good citizen? The flag, the anthem are just constructs. It's only been our anthem since 1978. Indigenous people were recognised as Australian citizens in 1967. I get where they're coming from. And I'm not against Australia or wishing I was somewhere else, I just think our country, like all countries, has unresolved issues.

Cody Waller says the anthem doesn't represent him or his family. Well welcome to country doesn't represent me or my family, so why should I respect it?

You're making the exact argument he is to argue that he shouldn't take that stance.

So you think we are both right or both wrong?

I think you're both entitled to say what you want. We're talking about cultural ceremonies here. These are our collective ceremonies, they mean different things to people. I don't see why welcome to country offends you. Care to explain? Not having a go, I just don't get it.

It doesn't. But if we all take the stance that we only respect things that directly represents our families then we'd end up in a pretty crapy country.

Sure, but I think the issue for the Indigenous people is that the anthem represents a lot to them. It hurts them, they don't have pride in it. It's come to be associated with the things in Australian society that they feel marginalise them. I don't know, I don't want to speak for Indigenous people. But I don't find it hard to see why they don't like the anthem, and I'm not sure why you want them to sing it. How does it help?

What part do you think they don't they like?

In the lyrics? I'm not sure. Notion of the nation as a 'young' country? Maybe the suggestion 'We've boundless plains to share' when there's been no treaty or recognition of dispossession. When incarceration rates remain ridiculously high for Indigenous people it might be hard for them to sing 'let us all combine', especially considering the White Australia Policy and the Stolen Generation. But I think what offends more than the words is the singing of a song of patriotism when they don't feel that sense of patriotism. I don't think they find it easy to celebrate the state of the nation as it is today.

Not singing the anthem won't change the state of the nation.

So why does it matter if they choose not to sing it?

It's disrespecting the nation IMO. Walker on $700k would have a pretty good life here.

:::

Spoiler Text

:::

 

[watersider]

I'm surprised at the response to this. The anthem signifies something negative to Indigenous people. I suppose it's hard for them to connect with when they're witness to a system which they see as marginalising them and their interests. Maybe they should shut that away and sing it anyway? Look how outraged we all get because they don't want to sing our song. While I don't think we're particularly good at recognising their traditions. Already on here we see negative attitudes towards smoke ceremonies and welcome to country. It would be nice if all Australians could have a greater sense of connection to the country, the flag and the anthem but I don't think it has to be imposed on people. As a republican, I don't like the flag and I wouldn't wear it. I'm just not proud of our connection to the monarchy and the union jack. Do you have to be patriotic to be a good citizen? The flag, the anthem are just constructs. It's only been our anthem since 1978. Indigenous people were recognised as Australian citizens in 1967. I get where they're coming from. And I'm not against Australia or wishing I was somewhere else, I just think our country, like all countries, has unresolved issues.

Cody Waller says the anthem doesn't represent him or his family. Well welcome to country doesn't represent me or my family, so why should I respect it?

You're making the exact argument he is to argue that he shouldn't take that stance.

So you think we are both right or both wrong?

I think you're both entitled to say what you want. We're talking about cultural ceremonies here. These are our collective ceremonies, they mean different things to people. I don't see why welcome to country offends you. Care to explain? Not having a go, I just don't get it.

It doesn't. But if we all take the stance that we only respect things that directly represents our families then we'd end up in a pretty crapy country.

Sure, but I think the issue for the Indigenous people is that the anthem represents a lot to them. It hurts them, they don't have pride in it. It's come to be associated with the things in Australian society that they feel marginalise them. I don't know, I don't want to speak for Indigenous people. But I don't find it hard to see why they don't like the anthem, and I'm not sure why you want them to sing it. How does it help?

What part do you think they don't they like?

In the lyrics? I'm not sure. Notion of the nation as a 'young' country? Maybe the suggestion 'We've boundless plains to share' when there's been no treaty or recognition of dispossession. When incarceration rates remain ridiculously high for Indigenous people it might be hard for them to sing 'let us all combine', especially considering the White Australia Policy and the Stolen Generation. But I think what offends more than the words is the singing of a song of patriotism when they don't feel that sense of patriotism. I don't think they find it easy to celebrate the state of the nation as it is today.

Well doesnt that mean they wouldnt be happy with just about any song chosen for our anthem? Our anthem is about celebrating Australia, and it sounds to me like they just arent happy with Australia. Same as the issue with Australia Day (imo).

I dont mean to be offensive. The song is meant to be something we can all unite behind. Im sorry some people dont fell united, or don't feel that they've been given a fair go. I'm sure they haven't been given a fair go, both historically and currently, and I get that protesting against the anthem and Australia Day may be the only means they have to air their just grievances. I just dont like the moral outrage culture developing sround the world at present, and hope that this isnt a case of that as it does look like it sometimes.

yeah, the moral outrage culture is rubbish. I think stopping people from saying what they think is unhelpful. I think our fascination with what American celebrities think is painful and a waste of time. I hate that we're more obsessed with Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon and his opponents than our own political landscape.

But I think there's a lot more substance behind this unease with the anthem. I don't think they do it lightly and I think it reflects their desire to recognise that there are issues that remain unresolved.

 

[cochise]

I'm surprised at the response to this. The anthem signifies something negative to Indigenous people. I suppose it's hard for them to connect with when they're witness to a system which they see as marginalising them and their interests. Maybe they should shut that away and sing it anyway? Look how outraged we all get because they don't want to sing our song. While I don't think we're particularly good at recognising their traditions. Already on here we see negative attitudes towards smoke ceremonies and welcome to country. It would be nice if all Australians could have a greater sense of connection to the country, the flag and the anthem but I don't think it has to be imposed on people. As a republican, I don't like the flag and I wouldn't wear it. I'm just not proud of our connection to the monarchy and the union jack. Do you have to be patriotic to be a good citizen? The flag, the anthem are just constructs. It's only been our anthem since 1978. Indigenous people were recognised as Australian citizens in 1967. I get where they're coming from. And I'm not against Australia or wishing I was somewhere else, I just think our country, like all countries, has unresolved issues.

Cody Waller says the anthem doesn't represent him or his family. Well welcome to country doesn't represent me or my family, so why should I respect it?

You're making the exact argument he is to argue that he shouldn't take that stance.

So you think we are both right or both wrong?

I think you're both entitled to say what you want. We're talking about cultural ceremonies here. These are our collective ceremonies, they mean different things to people. I don't see why welcome to country offends you. Care to explain? Not having a go, I just don't get it.

It doesn't. But if we all take the stance that we only respect things that directly represents our families then we'd end up in a pretty crapy country.

Sure, but I think the issue for the Indigenous people is that the anthem represents a lot to them. It hurts them, they don't have pride in it. It's come to be associated with the things in Australian society that they feel marginalise them. I don't know, I don't want to speak for Indigenous people. But I don't find it hard to see why they don't like the anthem, and I'm not sure why you want them to sing it. How does it help?

What part do you think they don't they like?

I have heard indigenous people say they feel the young and free doesn't acknowledge their heritage with the land and the free doesn't represent them!

Do you think a change in lyrics would satisfy?

:::

Spoiler Text

:::

I don't know as I am not indigenous but is probably unlikely as the song was orginally used to promote groups advocating white Australia beliefs.

I think if they put up an alternative anthem and a alternative national day the at least it would be something to consider.

I agree that would be a good step!

 

[watersider]

I'm surprised at the response to this. The anthem signifies something negative to Indigenous people. I suppose it's hard for them to connect with when they're witness to a system which they see as marginalising them and their interests. Maybe they should shut that away and sing it anyway? Look how outraged we all get because they don't want to sing our song. While I don't think we're particularly good at recognising their traditions. Already on here we see negative attitudes towards smoke ceremonies and welcome to country. It would be nice if all Australians could have a greater sense of connection to the country, the flag and the anthem but I don't think it has to be imposed on people. As a republican, I don't like the flag and I wouldn't wear it. I'm just not proud of our connection to the monarchy and the union jack. Do you have to be patriotic to be a good citizen? The flag, the anthem are just constructs. It's only been our anthem since 1978. Indigenous people were recognised as Australian citizens in 1967. I get where they're coming from. And I'm not against Australia or wishing I was somewhere else, I just think our country, like all countries, has unresolved issues.

Cody Waller says the anthem doesn't represent him or his family. Well welcome to country doesn't represent me or my family, so why should I respect it?

You're making the exact argument he is to argue that he shouldn't take that stance.

So you think we are both right or both wrong?

I think you're both entitled to say what you want. We're talking about cultural ceremonies here. These are our collective ceremonies, they mean different things to people. I don't see why welcome to country offends you. Care to explain? Not having a go, I just don't get it.

It doesn't. But if we all take the stance that we only respect things that directly represents our families then we'd end up in a pretty crapy country.

Sure, but I think the issue for the Indigenous people is that the anthem represents a lot to them. It hurts them, they don't have pride in it. It's come to be associated with the things in Australian society that they feel marginalise them. I don't know, I don't want to speak for Indigenous people. But I don't find it hard to see why they don't like the anthem, and I'm not sure why you want them to sing it. How does it help?

What part do you think they don't they like?

In the lyrics? I'm not sure. Notion of the nation as a 'young' country? Maybe the suggestion 'We've boundless plains to share' when there's been no treaty or recognition of dispossession. When incarceration rates remain ridiculously high for Indigenous people it might be hard for them to sing 'let us all combine', especially considering the White Australia Policy and the Stolen Generation. But I think what offends more than the words is the singing of a song of patriotism when they don't feel that sense of patriotism. I don't think they find it easy to celebrate the state of the nation as it is today.

Not singing the anthem won't change the state of the nation.

So why does it matter if they choose not to sing it?

It's disrespecting the nation IMO. Walker on $700k would have a pretty good life here.

:::

Spoiler Text

:::

I think he is entitled to be successful and still protest.

 

[cochise]

I'm surprised at the response to this. The anthem signifies something negative to Indigenous people. I suppose it's hard for them to connect with when they're witness to a system which they see as marginalising them and their interests. Maybe they should shut that away and sing it anyway? Look how outraged we all get because they don't want to sing our song. While I don't think we're particularly good at recognising their traditions. Already on here we see negative attitudes towards smoke ceremonies and welcome to country. It would be nice if all Australians could have a greater sense of connection to the country, the flag and the anthem but I don't think it has to be imposed on people. As a republican, I don't like the flag and I wouldn't wear it. I'm just not proud of our connection to the monarchy and the union jack. Do you have to be patriotic to be a good citizen? The flag, the anthem are just constructs. It's only been our anthem since 1978. Indigenous people were recognised as Australian citizens in 1967. I get where they're coming from. And I'm not against Australia or wishing I was somewhere else, I just think our country, like all countries, has unresolved issues.

Cody Waller says the anthem doesn't represent him or his family. Well welcome to country doesn't represent me or my family, so why should I respect it?

You're making the exact argument he is to argue that he shouldn't take that stance.

So you think we are both right or both wrong?

I think you're both entitled to say what you want. We're talking about cultural ceremonies here. These are our collective ceremonies, they mean different things to people. I don't see why welcome to country offends you. Care to explain? Not having a go, I just don't get it.

It doesn't. But if we all take the stance that we only respect things that directly represents our families then we'd end up in a pretty crapy country.

Sure, but I think the issue for the Indigenous people is that the anthem represents a lot to them. It hurts them, they don't have pride in it. It's come to be associated with the things in Australian society that they feel marginalise them. I don't know, I don't want to speak for Indigenous people. But I don't find it hard to see why they don't like the anthem, and I'm not sure why you want them to sing it. How does it help?

What part do you think they don't they like?

In the lyrics? I'm not sure. Notion of the nation as a 'young' country? Maybe the suggestion 'We've boundless plains to share' when there's been no treaty or recognition of dispossession. When incarceration rates remain ridiculously high for Indigenous people it might be hard for them to sing 'let us all combine', especially considering the White Australia Policy and the Stolen Generation. But I think what offends more than the words is the singing of a song of patriotism when they don't feel that sense of patriotism. I don't think they find it easy to celebrate the state of the nation as it is today.

Not singing the anthem won't change the state of the nation.

So why does it matter if they choose not to sing it?

It's disrespecting the nation IMO. Walker on $700k would have a pretty good life here.

:::

Spoiler Text

:::

I don't overly understand this argument, surely someone in his position should be speaking for people who do not have his platform to push for change?

 

[watersider]

I'm surprised at the response to this. The anthem signifies something negative to Indigenous people. I suppose it's hard for them to connect with when they're witness to a system which they see as marginalising them and their interests. Maybe they should shut that away and sing it anyway? Look how outraged we all get because they don't want to sing our song. While I don't think we're particularly good at recognising their traditions. Already on here we see negative attitudes towards smoke ceremonies and welcome to country. It would be nice if all Australians could have a greater sense of connection to the country, the flag and the anthem but I don't think it has to be imposed on people. As a republican, I don't like the flag and I wouldn't wear it. I'm just not proud of our connection to the monarchy and the union jack. Do you have to be patriotic to be a good citizen? The flag, the anthem are just constructs. It's only been our anthem since 1978. Indigenous people were recognised as Australian citizens in 1967. I get where they're coming from. And I'm not against Australia or wishing I was somewhere else, I just think our country, like all countries, has unresolved issues.

Cody Waller says the anthem doesn't represent him or his family. Well welcome to country doesn't represent me or my family, so why should I respect it?

You're making the exact argument he is to argue that he shouldn't take that stance.

So you think we are both right or both wrong?

I think you're both entitled to say what you want. We're talking about cultural ceremonies here. These are our collective ceremonies, they mean different things to people. I don't see why welcome to country offends you. Care to explain? Not having a go, I just don't get it.

It doesn't. But if we all take the stance that we only respect things that directly represents our families then we'd end up in a pretty crapy country.

Sure, but I think the issue for the Indigenous people is that the anthem represents a lot to them. It hurts them, they don't have pride in it. It's come to be associated with the things in Australian society that they feel marginalise them. I don't know, I don't want to speak for Indigenous people. But I don't find it hard to see why they don't like the anthem, and I'm not sure why you want them to sing it. How does it help?

What part do you think they don't they like?

I have heard indigenous people say they feel the young and free doesn't acknowledge their heritage with the land and the free doesn't represent them!

Do you think a change in lyrics would satisfy?

:::

Spoiler Text

:::

I don't know as I am not indigenous but is probably unlikely as the song was orginally used to promote groups advocating white Australia beliefs.

I think if they put up an alternative anthem and a alternative national day the at least it would be something to consider.

I'd guess that it would require treaty and constitutional recognition. I don't think a change in anthem would resolve the bigger issues. I also don't think Jan 26th is a good day to celebrate Australia day and I doubt January 26th is ever going to be a happy or celebratory day for Indigenous people. But those changes probably come after the more fundamental shifts. Sorry to make it even more controversial!

 

[watersider]

Thanks for the conversation people, was just thinking about the rising nationalism around the world on my walk home and wondering why we need to say 'this is the best country in the world' to prove our patriotism. So appreciate the opportunity to discuss these issues.

 

[Plato]

Brothers and sisters all.
Here and now.
You don't need a song or a flag for that.

 

[Harvey]

There are a few versions of the welcome to country speech. The one read at my kids school includes something along the lines of, we recognise that the land under these buildings and asphalt was, is and always will be aboriginal land.

Do you find that language dividing? Does it suggest that 95% of the students in that hall from all around the world are trespassers?

How acceptable would that be in an official event if that countries indigenous people were a majority? Could you imagine the outrage if European countries had a similar ceremony stating that the ground was always European and everyone else is simply a visitor?

We need to look for common traits that unite people, and not things that divide and ostracise.

 

[Don Kershane]

I think an alternative hip hop anthem would be popular as a nod to the kangaroo and recognition to the the increasing number of aging people requiring joint replacement.

 

[twentyforty]

I'm going to agree with the ARLC on this one

My opinion , the national anthem should really only be played when AUSTRALIA is playing

What about the traditional ANZAC day matches?

 

[The_Patriot]

I'm surprised at the response to this. The anthem signifies something negative to Indigenous people. I suppose it's hard for them to connect with when they're witness to a system which they see as marginalising them and their interests. Maybe they should shut that away and sing it anyway? Look how outraged we all get because they don't want to sing our song. While I don't think we're particularly good at recognising their traditions. Already on here we see negative attitudes towards smoke ceremonies and welcome to country. It would be nice if all Australians could have a greater sense of connection to the country, the flag and the anthem but I don't think it has to be imposed on people. As a republican, I don't like the flag and I wouldn't wear it. I'm just not proud of our connection to the monarchy and the union jack. Do you have to be patriotic to be a good citizen? The flag, the anthem are just constructs. It's only been our anthem since 1978. Indigenous people were recognised as Australian citizens in 1967. I get where they're coming from. And I'm not against Australia or wishing I was somewhere else, I just think our country, like all countries, has unresolved issues.

Cody Waller says the anthem doesn't represent him or his family. Well welcome to country doesn't represent me or my family, so why should I respect it?

You're making the exact argument he is to argue that he shouldn't take that stance.

So you think we are both right or both wrong?

I think you're both entitled to say what you want. We're talking about cultural ceremonies here. These are our collective ceremonies, they mean different things to people. I don't see why welcome to country offends you. Care to explain? Not having a go, I just don't get it.

It doesn't. But if we all take the stance that we only respect things that directly represents our families then we'd end up in a pretty crapy country.

Sure, but I think the issue for the Indigenous people is that the anthem represents a lot to them. It hurts them, they don't have pride in it. It's come to be associated with the things in Australian society that they feel marginalise them. I don't know, I don't want to speak for Indigenous people. But I don't find it hard to see why they don't like the anthem, and I'm not sure why you want them to sing it. How does it help?

What part do you think they don't they like?

In the lyrics? I'm not sure. Notion of the nation as a 'young' country? Maybe the suggestion 'We've boundless plains to share' when there's been no treaty or recognition of dispossession. When incarceration rates remain ridiculously high for Indigenous people it might be hard for them to sing 'let us all combine', especially considering the White Australia Policy and the Stolen Generation. But I think what offends more than the words is the singing of a song of patriotism when they don't feel that sense of patriotism. I don't think they find it easy to celebrate the state of the nation as it is today.

I think there maybe also a disconnect in what indigenous people view what a country is when compared to the other groups in our country. I think that with the connection to land that indigenous people feel that country to them is the land and belonging to that land is crucial in their understanding of what a country is. I think other groups in our country view our country as being about the people, values and beliefs put in place over the last 200 years. I think that maybe why they find the young part to be problematic because they have belonged to this land for a long time.

All this is only my opinion and I may be way off but I feel that the disconnect may come from different ways various cultures identify with country!

I thought that was a good post on this issue. Balanced and gets to the real issue.

 

[Geo]

Will they still have the War dances...like them...

 

[TheDaBoss]

I think an alternative hip hop anthem would be popular as a nod to the kangaroo and recognition to the the increasing number of aging people requiring joint replacement.

Snoop dog remix of Aussie anthem comming soon

 

[twentyforty]

Tribalism is a communist plot. Resist. Don’t follow the crowd. Respect each other while appreciating that we are all different and rejoice in that difference. Communism seeks to destroy that difference by initially herding the simple minded followers into More easily controlled groups. Regardless of your standing in life , your IQ, level of education, Identifying characteristics, or wealth , for better or worse, we’re on this island nation together (including Tasmania) . So rather than searching for the perceived undesirable characteristics In others, let’s look for the good?