Aus V NZ and City v Country *SPOILERS*

[IronTiger]

Don't care about City/Country
Don't care about Origin
Don't care about Aust/NZ

Do care about injuries we had none from 2 pointless games :slight_smile:

 

[Guest]

I thought Galloway and Lawrence were the pick of the Tigers. Galloway offloaded with ease and had 5 offloads to his name and went forward when he did have the ball. O'Donnell was the only city forward to make over 100m in attack. Lawrence defended well but just like at the Tigers, he received bugger all ball. Farah didn't do anything great but topped the tackle count. Enis 2 try assists will be the only thing the selectors will talk about though.

A potential NSW pack could look like:

1\. Dugan
2\. Hayne
3\. Lawrence
4\. Idris
5\. Morris
6\. Lyon
7\. Carney
8\. Weyman
9\. Farah
10\. Perry
11\. Whatmough
12\. Lewis
13\. Gallen

14\. Gidley
15\. Galloway
16\. Snowden
17\. Creagh/Laffranchi

 

[IronTiger]

Ennis will get picked, guys move on stop beating yourselves up.

 

[Tiger_Watto]

I think the first 7 picked will be Hayne; B Morris; Lyon; Kimmorely; Ennis; Gallen; Lewis and Bellamy and Daley will build a team around them. Robbie is still a chance for the bench, but is highly unlikely as Daley doesnt want him…

 

[system]

My side

1\. Dugan
2\. Morris
3\. Jennings
4\. Lawrence
5\. Burt

6\. Carney
7\. Farah (Kimmorley will be picked)

8\. Weyman
9\. Ennis
10\. Mason
11\. Waterhouse
12\. Watmough
13\. Lewis

14\. Bird
15\. Galloway
16\. Tom L.L
17\. Snowden/White

 

[innsaneink]

Ennis will get picked, guys move on stop beating yourselves up.

So much for not caring about it.

 

[king_sirro]

My side

1\. Dugan
2\. Morris
3\. Jennings
4\. Lawrence
5\. Burt

6\. Carney
7\. Farah (Kimmorley will be picked)

8\. Weyman
9\. Ennis
10\. Mason
11\. Waterhouse
12\. Watmough
13\. Lewis

14\. Bird
15\. Galloway
16\. Tom L.L
17\. Snowden/White

You would leave Hayne out after he's been NSW's best the last 2 years?

 

[system]

I would because he is not a fullbacks left toe nail and I don't think he offers enough on the wing in the way of consistancy. He makes way for Burt who would be my goalkicker

 

[tiger_sean]

I would because he is not a fullbacks left toe nail and I don't think he offers enough on the wing in the way of consistancy. He makes way for Burt who would be my goalkicker

I always thought that you considered burt more useless than a dog turd… :laughing:

 

[TIGER]

Watched Benji very closely last night and actually wrote down everything he did other than when he just caught and passed the following is exactly what i jotted down.

3rd min Benji kicks, Slater takes it on the full in the in goal, no pressure. Pathetic

24th min Benji on last tackle gets put under pressure kicks Slater takes it on full in goal no pressure.

26th min Benji knocks on off Cronk kick but ref calls play on (knock back) Benji beats a few in broken play then gets tackled and loses ball.

28th min Benji puts kick up, Slater takes it under posts no real pressure. Nothing kick.

54th min Nz get penalty in good field pos Gould mentions " Benji needs to come to life "

56th min Benji has his second run of the game puts in a chip kick inside his own half nz fail to regather and turn over ball.

61st min Benji puts up bomb slater takes it, basically all Benji has done is bomb and turn over possession.

64th min Benji tries to catch Cronk kick and knocks on under his own posts.

67th min Puts attacking chip kick in Hayne knocks on and Benji also knocks on regathering.

75th min Nz attacking line Benji drops ball( lucky not to be called knock) on play breaks down

79th min Benji throws cut out pass to Taia who turns it inside to Sau who scores.

This is a so called superstars performance captaining his country in a test match, the most experienced playmaker in the team playing in the halves with a 19yo on his debut. If any other half in any rep game plays like Benji did he probably never gets picked again.
Imo Foran outplayed Benji and Foran wasn't that flash.
I have watched Benji very closely for his whole career but never actually recorded his play like i did last night i just made mental notes, but reading this back floors me!!
The first thing i notice is his lack of involvement and the second his poor kicks/decisions and mistakes.
As i said at the top this is every play Benji was involved in bar when he simply caught and passed and even that was scarce.
Why is 75% of his game rubbish but people only ever remember the fancy stuff.

He's still just a touch player fooling everyone that he can play with the occasional good game and fancy pass.

Waiting for the Benji lovers to try and shoot me down, but how can you argue with the above observation of his game, how can you argue with the truth.

 

[innsaneink]

There is more to a game than just incidents with the ball…though you are correct in respect of his lack of involvement at times, I forgot he was playing at stages.

Also I dont thinks been mentioned is the emotion he displyed during the NZ anthem, he was close to a blubbering wreck, thought to myself at the time he will need to pull himself together very quickly if he is to steer the Kiwis around the park, by the time of the haka he looked more composed and focussed on the game....and they went with the Aussie for the best part of the game

 

[crouching_tiger]

Watched Benji very closely last night and actually wrote down everything he did other than when he just caught and passed the following is exactly what i jotted down.

3rd min Benji kicks, Slater takes it on the full in the in goal, no pressure. Pathetic

24th min Benji on last tackle gets put under pressure kicks Slater takes it on full in goal no pressure.

26th min Benji knocks on off Cronk kick but ref calls play on (knock back) Benji beats a few in broken play then gets tackled and loses ball.

28th min Benji puts kick up, Slater takes it under posts no real pressure. Nothing kick.

54th min Nz get penalty in good field pos Gould mentions " Benji needs to come to life "

56th min Benji has his second run of the game puts in a chip kick inside his own half nz fail to regather and turn over ball.

61st min Benji puts up bomb slater takes it, basically all Benji has done is bomb and turn over possession.

64th min Benji tries to catch Cronk kick and knocks on under his own posts.

67th min Puts attacking chip kick in Hayne knocks on and Benji also knocks on regathering.

75th min Nz attacking line Benji drops ball( lucky not to be called knock) on play breaks down

79th min Benji throws cut out pass to Taia who turns it inside to Sau who scores.

This is a so called superstars performance captaining his country in a test match, the most experienced playmaker in the team playing in the halves with a 19yo on his debut. If any other half in any rep game plays like Benji did he probably never gets picked again.
Imo Foran outplayed Benji and Foran wasn't that flash.
I have watched Benji very closely for his whole career but never actually recorded his play like i did last night i just made mental notes, but reading this back floors me!!
The first thing i notice is his lack of involvement and the second his poor kicks/decisions and mistakes.
As i said at the top this is every play Benji was involved in bar when he simply caught and passed and even that was scarce.
Why is 75% of his game rubbish but people only ever remember the fancy stuff.

He's still just a touch player fooling everyone that he can play with the occasional good game and fancy pass.

Waiting for the Benji lovers to try and shoot me down, but how can you argue with the above observation of his game, how can you argue with the truth.

He played a lot worse against the Rooster last weekend. But people on here fail to see what's really happening. That's why i'm screaming to get him out of the halves right now and push him into the centres. For no other reason other than, this is the ONLY way to stop Sheens from lumping the playmaking work onto him.

 

[Rorko]

1\. Dugan
2\. B.Morris
3\. J.Morris/Lyon
4\. Jennings
5\. Hayne

6\. Mullen
7\. Carney

8\. Weyman
9\. Ennis/Farah (either one will do me Both good players)
10\. Cross
11\. Creagh
12\. Watmough/Lewis
13\. Gallen/ Laffranchi

14\. Gidley
15\. Mason
16\. Perry
17\. Hoffman

 

[TIGER]

There is more to a game than just incidents with the ball…though you are correct in respect of his lack of involvement at times, I forgot he was playing at stages.

Also I dont thinks been mentioned is the emotion he displyed during the NZ anthem, he was close to a blubbering wreck, thought to myself at the time he will need to pull himself together very quickly if he is to steer the Kiwis around the park, by the time of the haka he looked more composed and focussed on the game....and they went with the Aussie for the best part of the game

C'mon is that all you've got. He ran the ball twice, the first time (26th min) he knocked the ball on trying to field a kick from Cronk (against the run of play) but ref somehow called knock back then he stepped 3 or 4 players got tackled and lost the ball. Second run wasn't until the 56th min where he puts in a chip kick inside his own half and turns the ball over. Thats it the only two times he ran the ball in the whole game the first time he loses it and the second was a low percentage chip kick which gives the Aussies the ball in good field position. Thats the captain of NZ lands contribution to the game, supposedly the most dangerous attacking player on the field and the Kiwis most experienced half and playmaker (the other being a 19 yo kid on debut) playing against the best side in the world and that's what he comes up with.
I guarantee after all of that if he would have thrown the last pass for NZ to snatch victory his name would be in bold on the front and back page of every newspaper, it makes me sick!!!!!
He is the most overrated player in the game but no one wants to say it because he's such a pinup boy and he's involved in the media now, if only everyone could see past his infrequent flashes and realise 75% of the time he dishes up utter crap. Any more Benji fans want to come to his defence? What more excuses can you make up i think by now you must be all out.

 

[Snide]

There is more to a game than just incidents with the ball…though you are correct in respect of his lack of involvement at times, I forgot he was playing at stages.

Also I dont thinks been mentioned is the emotion he displyed during the NZ anthem, he was close to a blubbering wreck, thought to myself at the time he will need to pull himself together very quickly if he is to steer the Kiwis around the park, by the time of the haka he looked more composed and focussed on the game....and they went with the Aussie for the best part of the game

C'mon is that all you've got. He ran the ball twice, the first time (26th min) he knocked the ball on trying to field a kick from Cronk (against the run of play) but ref somehow called knock back then he stepped 3 or 4 players got tackled and lost the ball. Second run wasn't until the 56th min where he puts in a chip kick inside his own half and turns the ball over. Thats it the only two times he ran the ball in the whole game the first time he loses it and the second was a low percentage chip kick which gives the Aussies the ball in good field position. Thats the captain of NZ lands contribution to the game, supposedly the most dangerous attacking player on the field and the Kiwis most experienced half and playmaker (the other being a 19 yo kid on debut) playing against the best side in the world and that's what he comes up with.
I guarantee after all of that if he would have thrown the last pass for NZ to snatch victory his name would be in bold on the front and back page of every newspaper, it makes me sick!!!!!
He is the most overrated player in the game but no one wants to say it because he's such a pinup boy and he's involved in the media now, if only everyone could see past his infrequent flashes and realise 75% of the time he dishes up utter crap. Any more Benji fans want to come to his defence? What more excuses can you make up i think by now you must be all out.

DID YOU DO THE SAME ALLEGED MOMENT-BY-MOMENT ACCOUNT FOR LOCKYER??

DO YOU EVEN UNDERSTAND THE 5/8TH-PIVOT ROLE (AND I PARAPHRASE? - "…WHEN HE DIDN'T JUST PASS...."!)

ASIDE FROM ALSO PASSING - WHEN DID THE GREAT LOCKY PROVIDE MORE ATTACKING OPTIONS?

 

[crouching_tiger]

C'mon is that all you've got. He ran the ball twice, the first time (26th min) he knocked the ball on trying to field a kick from Cronk (against the run of play) but ref somehow called knock back then he stepped 3 or 4 players got tackled and lost the ball. Second run wasn't until the 56th min where he puts in a chip kick inside his own half and turns the ball over. Thats it the only two times he ran the ball in the whole game the first time he loses it and the second was a low percentage chip kick which gives the Aussies the ball in good field position. Thats the captain of NZ lands contribution to the game, supposedly the most dangerous attacking player on the field and the Kiwis most experienced half and playmaker (the other being a 19 yo kid on debut) playing against the best side in the world and that's what he comes up with.
I guarantee after all of that if he would have thrown the last pass for NZ to snatch victory his name would be in bold on the front and back page of every newspaper, it makes me sick!!!!!
He is the most overrated player in the game but no one wants to say it because he's such a pinup boy and he's involved in the media now, if only everyone could see past his infrequent flashes and realise 75% of the time he dishes up utter crap. Any more Benji fans want to come to his defence? What more excuses can you make up i think by now you must be all out.

You are the first person on this forum that sees the same game as i do.
I think the world of Marshall, where he has come from, what odds he has beaten, and how he handles himself off the field etc. I agree with absolutely everything you have pointed out regarding his recent form.
But i think one thing you are overlooking is to WHY his game is being played out in this form. You and i both have seen his freakish talents. But i believe the coaches are not getting the best results out of what he is capable of. Marshall would not be happy with his form of late also. He knows it, i can assure you.
For the millionth time, i will say it again, Marshall is NOT a playmaker but a gamebreaker. Massive difference. One controls the game by playing the percentages, the other plays the probabilities. Marshall is the latter. And no matter what Sheens does to develop his game, he can not change that. It's Benji's natural game.
And the more i think about it, if Sheens persists to build the squad around Marshall, the results will follow as his form does in the form of hot/cold and inconsistent.
The ONLY way Marshall will find consistency is by letting him play his natural game. This is where he is most comfortable.
How do we do this?
Either find a REAL halfback who can put Marshall on strings and feed him the ball when the time is right, or get him out of the halves altogether if Sheens wants to throw another 5/8th in there. It's not that hard really. Sheens has outsmarted himself by trying to re-invent the wheel.
It's no surprise the WT forward pack this year has really taken some form on now they have bolstered their size in the engine room. Simple basic football will always prevail and prove to be what consistently wins matches.

 

[innsaneink]

There is more to a game than just incidents with the ball…though you are correct in respect of his lack of involvement at times, I forgot he was playing at stages.

Also I dont thinks been mentioned is the emotion he displyed during the NZ anthem, he was close to a blubbering wreck, thought to myself at the time he will need to pull himself together very quickly if he is to steer the Kiwis around the park, by the time of the haka he looked more composed and focussed on the game....and they went with the Aussie for the best part of the game

C'mon is that all you've got. He ran the ball twice, the first time (26th min) he knocked the ball on trying to field a kick from Cronk (against the run of play) but ref somehow called knock back then he stepped 3 or 4 players got tackled and lost the ball. Second run wasn't until the 56th min where he puts in a chip kick inside his own half and turns the ball over. Thats it the only two times he ran the ball in the whole game the first time he loses it and the second was a low percentage chip kick which gives the Aussies the ball in good field position. Thats the captain of NZ lands contribution to the game, supposedly the most dangerous attacking player on the field and the Kiwis most experienced half and playmaker (the other being a 19 yo kid on debut) playing against the best side in the world and that's what he comes up with.
I guarantee after all of that if he would have thrown the last pass for NZ to snatch victory his name would be in bold on the front and back page of every newspaper, it makes me sick!!!!!
He is the most overrated player in the game but no one wants to say it because he's such a pinup boy and he's involved in the media now, if only everyone could see past his infrequent flashes and realise 75% of the time he dishes up utter crap. Any more Benji fans want to come to his defence? What more excuses can you make up i think by now you must be all out.

All Ive got?
I dunno mate.
I have a feeling I was agreeing with you mostly…he was very quiet...but theres much much more to a game than what youu described

 

[Guest]

C'mon is that all you've got. He ran the ball twice, the first time (26th min) he knocked the ball on trying to field a kick from Cronk (against the run of play) but ref somehow called knock back then he stepped 3 or 4 players got tackled and lost the ball. Second run wasn't until the 56th min where he puts in a chip kick inside his own half and turns the ball over. Thats it the only two times he ran the ball in the whole game the first time he loses it and the second was a low percentage chip kick which gives the Aussies the ball in good field position. Thats the captain of NZ lands contribution to the game, supposedly the most dangerous attacking player on the field and the Kiwis most experienced half and playmaker (the other being a 19 yo kid on debut) playing against the best side in the world and that's what he comes up with.
I guarantee after all of that if he would have thrown the last pass for NZ to snatch victory his name would be in bold on the front and back page of every newspaper, it makes me sick!!!!!
He is the most overrated player in the game but no one wants to say it because he's such a pinup boy and he's involved in the media now, if only everyone could see past his infrequent flashes and realise 75% of the time he dishes up utter crap. Any more Benji fans want to come to his defence? What more excuses can you make up i think by now you must be all out.

You are the first person on this forum that sees the same game as i do.
I think the world of Marshall, where he has come from, what odds he has beaten, and how he handles himself off the field etc. I agree with absolutely everything you have pointed out regarding his recent form.
But i think one thing you are overlooking is to WHY his game is being played out in this form. You and i both have seen his freakish talents. But i believe the coaches are not getting the best results out of what he is capable of. Marshall would not be happy with his form of late also. He knows it, i can assure you.
For the millionth time, i will say it again, Marshall is NOT a playmaker but a gamebreaker. Massive difference. One controls the game by playing the percentages, the other plays the probabilities. Marshall is the latter. And no matter what Sheens does to develop his game, he can not change that. It's Benji's natural game.
And the more i think about it, if Sheens persists to build the squad around Marshall, the results will follow as his form does in the form of hot/cold and inconsistent.
The ONLY way Marshall will find consistency is by letting him play his natural game. This is where he is most comfortable.
How do we do this?
Either find a REAL halfback who can put Marshall on strings and feed him the ball when the time is right, or get him out of the halves altogether if Sheens wants to throw another 5/8th in there. It's not that hard really. Sheens has outsmarted himself by trying to re-invent the wheel.
It's no surprise the WT forward pack this year has really taken some form on now they have bolstered their size in the engine room. Simple basic football will always prevail and prove to be what consistently wins matches.

Is Sheens really going to play Benji anywhere else other than the halves though?

To suit what you are saying CT, one potential, although I daresay highly unlikely Tigers backline could be assuming all players fit):

1\. Ryan
2\. Tuqiri
3\. Lawrence
4\. Benji
5\. Tuiaki
6\. Lui
7\. Lazarus/Moltzen

How would you feel about that backline?

With Moltzen gone, I feel Lui is the best option at this stage, and may very well help relieve the pressure on Benji with his passing and kicking game. Big responsibility for him, but I thought he looked in reasonabl touch prior to his injury, and he had a very good combination working with Farah in the Sharks trial.

 

[TIGER]

There is more to a game than just incidents with the ball…though you are correct in respect of his lack of involvement at times, I forgot he was playing at stages.

Also I dont thinks been mentioned is the emotion he displyed during the NZ anthem, he was close to a blubbering wreck, thought to myself at the time he will need to pull himself together very quickly if he is to steer the Kiwis around the park, by the time of the haka he looked more composed and focussed on the game....and they went with the Aussie for the best part of the game

C'mon is that all you've got. He ran the ball twice, the first time (26th min) he knocked the ball on trying to field a kick from Cronk (against the run of play) but ref somehow called knock back then he stepped 3 or 4 players got tackled and lost the ball. Second run wasn't until the 56th min where he puts in a chip kick inside his own half and turns the ball over. Thats it the only two times he ran the ball in the whole game the first time he loses it and the second was a low percentage chip kick which gives the Aussies the ball in good field position. Thats the captain of NZ lands contribution to the game, supposedly the most dangerous attacking player on the field and the Kiwis most experienced half and playmaker (the other being a 19 yo kid on debut) playing against the best side in the world and that's what he comes up with.
I guarantee after all of that if he would have thrown the last pass for NZ to snatch victory his name would be in bold on the front and back page of every newspaper, it makes me sick!!!!!
He is the most overrated player in the game but no one wants to say it because he's such a pinup boy and he's involved in the media now, if only everyone could see past his infrequent flashes and realise 75% of the time he dishes up utter crap. Any more Benji fans want to come to his defence? What more excuses can you make up i think by now you must be all out.

DID YOU DO THE SAME ALLEGED MOMENT-BY-MOMENT ACCOUNT FOR LOCKYER??

DO YOU EVEN UNDERSTAND THE 5/8TH-PIVOT ROLE (AND I PARAPHRASE? - "…WHEN HE DIDN'T JUST PASS...."!)

ASIDE FROM ALSO PASSING - WHEN DID THE GREAT LOCKY PROVIDE MORE ATTACKING OPTIONS?

To answer your question: No i didn't, for one it's hard enough concentrating on one player and i did want to actually watch the game, and two i couldn't care less about Lockyer he doesn't play for the Tigers.
But the fact you are even comparing Lockyer to Marshall at this point in their careers tells me you have no idea about what constitutes a quality Rubgy League player. Right now Benji SHOULD be in his prime and Lockyer is obviously in his twilight years so comparing them is a wasted argument. But Lockyer in his prime runs rings around Benji every day of the week, he's just a much SMARTER football player all round and a damaging ball runner and if Benji goes on to be half the player Lockyer is than he's achieved something.

 

[system]

Did Nate Myles get Sheens'd Friday night and spend the entire 80 on the bench?