Big 3

[weststigerman]

Doueihi is a fine player but defensively a weak link. He is not a rookie. What do you do with him? He appears not to want to improve.

I assume you aren't serious with this comment.

I think he actually is. Cheap shots at players that aren’t his faves (Brooks, Kepaoa, Ivan) has become the norm.

 

[earl]

Doueihi is a fine player but defensively a weak link. He is not a rookie. What do you do with him? He appears not to want to improve.

I assume you aren't serious with this comment.

I think he actually is. Cheap shots at players that aren’t his faves (Brooks, Kepaoa, Ivan) has become the norm.

I find him a good poster but that comment ended his anti-Madge spiel better than any counter argument.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

Doueihi is a fine player but defensively a weak link. He is not a rookie. What do you do with him? He appears not to want to improve.

I assume you aren't serious with this comment.

Doueihi, like a few others in out team, need to make significant improvement to their defence. Defence wins games and when players make continued errors in defence you wonder whether they really want to improve. Doueihi is a favourite of mine but is not exempt from criticism.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

Doueihi is a fine player but defensively a weak link. He is not a rookie. What do you do with him? He appears not to want to improve.

I assume you aren't serious with this comment.

I think he actually is. Cheap shots at players that aren’t his faves (Brooks, Kepaoa, Ivan) has become the norm.

So you are happy with continued defensive errors which lead directly to tries?

 

[tigeress]

So i look at our club and the other clubs and what we lack is quality at the real top end.

Our 3 highest paid players are Mbye, Brooks, Packer and at the start of the season it was Josh Reynolds

If I compare this to the top 3 in almost every other club then this is really where we fall over.

I would almost go as far to say that if we swapped the top 3 players at every club outside the bottom 4 we would be a top 8 team.

Look at what happened to Manly when Tommy T came back. If we swapped our 3 highest paid for Tom and Jake and DCE or swapped them for Taumalolo, Val Holmes and Micheal Morgan pre injury we would be a top 8 team let alone if we swapped with top 4 clubs - if we swapped our too 3 for Teddy, Keary and Chrichton or Cleary, Kikau and Crichton or Latrell, Murray, Cody W or Munster, Paps, Bromwich/Grant at the storm

What we really need is not a slightly better this or that or but too focus on buying 3 top class players. Now we might not get 3 in one offseason but find the first one as they tried to do with Latrell and JAC we need to find some genuine test level players even if we need to pay signifcant overs for the first one but make it a genuine star.

I actually think we have made good moves in buying some exceptional young players who might well turn into top 3 level players - Laurie, Douehi, Blore, Stefano, Simpkins all have that potential but we need to bring in a top 3 player.

We have gaps in our outside backs , half back and lock so lets aim for one in each of those.

Mayby Hastings is it at halfback so lets find a star outside back and a star lock. I understand why Madge would look at Sam Burgess because he might be that for 18 months and he would set standards on tje field and training paddock although perhap not in life.

Interested in peoples thoughts

Unfortunately the top class players would not entertain the idea of coming to the WT'S, that's the problem until we start winning and becoming successful with the team we have, and will that happen ????

 

[jirskyr]

marzipan on dog droppings

I've never heard that before, what an interesting comment.

 

[jirskyr]

I watched our U21 halves cut down attackers the other weekend which was very pleasing

I respect your opinion, but they were cutting down U21 attackers.

 

[TrueTiger]

Doueihi is a fine player but defensively a weak link. He is not a rookie. What do you do with him? He appears not to want to improve.

I assume you aren't serious with this comment.

I think he actually is. Cheap shots at players that aren’t his faves (Brooks, Kepaoa, Ivan) has become the norm.

So you are happy with continued defensive errors which lead directly to tries?

You seem to pick at AD because of his defensive issues,however forget how great he is with ball in hand,great goal kicking and his enthusiasm to succeed at 5/8...it takes time....Noffo has been a defensive liability for years but gets a pass because of his hard carries and a contract extension he doesnt seem to want to learn either how to defend his wing ....once again paws you pick and choice your targets to suit your arguments....

 

[TigerWest]

When are we getting the last 2 signings, we are 2 & 7, the season is slipping past us fast?

Hopefully they are goodun’s?

We need to sign them, so an SOS to Hartigan, extract your finger.

 

[TrueTiger]

So i look at our club and the other clubs and what we lack is quality at the real top end.

Our 3 highest paid players are Mbye, Brooks, Packer and at the start of the season it was Josh Reynolds

If I compare this to the top 3 in almost every other club then this is really where we fall over.

I would almost go as far to say that if we swapped the top 3 players at every club outside the bottom 4 we would be a top 8 team.

Look at what happened to Manly when Tommy T came back. If we swapped our 3 highest paid for Tom and Jake and DCE or swapped them for Taumalolo, Val Holmes and Micheal Morgan pre injury we would be a top 8 team let alone if we swapped with top 4 clubs - if we swapped our too 3 for Teddy, Keary and Chrichton or Cleary, Kikau and Crichton or Latrell, Murray, Cody W or Munster, Paps, Bromwich/Grant at the storm

What we really need is not a slightly better this or that or but too focus on buying 3 top class players. Now we might not get 3 in one offseason but find the first one as they tried to do with Latrell and JAC we need to find some genuine test level players even if we need to pay signifcant overs for the first one but make it a genuine star.

I actually think we have made good moves in buying some exceptional young players who might well turn into top 3 level players - Laurie, Douehi, Blore, Stefano, Simpkins all have that potential but we need to bring in a top 3 player.

We have gaps in our outside backs , half back and lock so lets aim for one in each of those.

Mayby Hastings is it at halfback so lets find a star outside back and a star lock. I understand why Madge would look at Sam Burgess because he might be that for 18 months and he would set standards on tje field and training paddock although perhap not in life.

Interested in peoples thoughts

Absolutely spot on. Too much money tied up in the top three that are not delivering what they are getting paid. One, Packer, will definitely be gone for 2022. Hopefully we can offload Mbye as well, without paying huge freight. Brooks has until the end of the year IMO, otherwise he can be shopped around as well. That would free up the top 3 money spots for better value players.

I'd suggest the coach is on borrowed time. Blame the players all you want but the extremely poor defence rests with the coach. You want stability, I want our team to improve and we're not getting that under Maguire. No player of note will come here with Maguire as coach.

The players are the ones on the field not the coach. It’s the players that are the problem with a number of them that won’t be here next year.

I have no doubt some players are defensively weak. But it is the coach who is responsible for improving the defence. He has not done so and our play has regressed. You cannot continue to excuse him.

Doueihi is a fine player but defensively a weak link. He is not a rookie. What do you do with him? He appears not to want to improve.

How does Doueihi appear to not want to improve exactly?

You cannot continue to excuse the players that won’t put in.

How many tries have been scored via him rushing out of the defensive line and leaving a gap? He's a seasoned NRL player but continues to make rookie errors in defence. What do you do with a player who doesn't want or can't learn how to defend?

Exactly how many tries has Doueihi let in? How many has Doueihi saved? How many games has Doueihi played at 5/8?

Quite a few. He is not a rookie and he said himself 5/8 was his junior position. I've watched him in juniors play half. I like him and he does some good things with the ball. But the game also involves defence and being able to work as a team in defence. He is not the only player defensively a liability but defence is the issue which must be fixed. We know a team builds confidence from a strong defence. Letting your team mates down with poor defence must be extremely frustrating to those players who do defend.


Of all the players you could have picked to be defensively weak and you picked Doueihi, our best player on the field by a fair margin. He puts in every week.

Defensively the problem is in the forwards. No team is threatened by our pack, it’s an easy game against the Wests Tigers, you won’t have too many bruises when you play us.

That may be so but if we're leaking points and teams are targeting one of our halves there is an issue. I just wonder why he hasn't fixed it. Wasn't it our right side again which conceded tries?

The problem starts in the middle.

So we can hide this under rebuilding. It helps if all players and especially our halves can defend. I am amazed only one or two posters have raised this issue. As I wrote I like Doueihi as a player but he needs ti fix this quickly. What do they do at training?

Funny how you pick AD to fix his defense since he is Brooks partner who does defend well but leave out the poor set finishes and team leadership that Brooks fails in so AD has to take over that role to take the pressure off the teams leading playmaker,,,remember the Brooks spiel""its my team""....

 

[weststigerman]

Doueihi is a fine player but defensively a weak link. He is not a rookie. What do you do with him? He appears not to want to improve.

I assume you aren't serious with this comment.

I think he actually is. Cheap shots at players that aren’t his faves (Brooks, Kepaoa, Ivan) has become the norm.

So you are happy with continued defensive errors which lead directly to tries?

No. Are you happy with Brooks kicking the ball straight to the opposition?

 

[pawsandclaws1]

Doueihi is a fine player but defensively a weak link. He is not a rookie. What do you do with him? He appears not to want to improve.

I assume you aren't serious with this comment.

I think he actually is. Cheap shots at players that aren’t his faves (Brooks, Kepaoa, Ivan) has become the norm.

So you are happy with continued defensive errors which lead directly to tries?

You seem to pick at AD because of his defensive issues,however forget how great he is with ball in hand,great goal kicking and his enthusiasm to succeed at 5/8...it takes time....Noffo has been a defensive liability for years but gets a pass because of his hard carries and a contract extension he doesnt seem to want to learn either how to defend his wing ....once again paws you pick and choice your targets to suit your arguments....

TT, I've written numerous times I believe he is a good player. How many times has it been written on this forum about this team's problem is attitude, culture etc. I'm bemused when I raise this, just as it has been raised previously by others, this is the reaction.

I've raised Nofoaluma's defensive issues many times in game threads, Check if you care.

So in summary TT, you're off base with your post.

 

[tbones10]

Doueihi is a fine player but defensively a weak link. He is not a rookie. What do you do with him? He appears not to want to improve.

I assume you aren't serious with this comment.

I think he actually is. Cheap shots at players that aren’t his faves (Brooks, Kepaoa, Ivan) has become the norm.

So you are happy with continued defensive errors which lead directly to tries?

No. Are you happy with Brooks kicking the ball straight to the opposition?

To be fair though he is getting quiet good at it, sometimes they don't even have to move, at all.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

Doueihi is a fine player but defensively a weak link. He is not a rookie. What do you do with him? He appears not to want to improve.

I assume you aren't serious with this comment.

I think he actually is. Cheap shots at players that aren’t his faves (Brooks, Kepaoa, Ivan) has become the norm.

So you are happy with continued defensive errors which lead directly to tries?

No. Are you happy with Brooks kicking the ball straight to the opposition?

Oooops switch to the No 1 discussion (obsession) on the Forum.

The answer is no. However a team should be able to defend when plans go astray. We can't and that's why we concede 30 points and why we have the Doueihi post interchange?

 

[jirskyr]

So i look at our club and the other clubs and what we lack is quality at the real top end.

Our 3 highest paid players are Mbye, Brooks, Packer and at the start of the season it was Josh Reynolds

If I compare this to the top 3 in almost every other club then this is really where we fall over.

I would almost go as far to say that if we swapped the top 3 players at every club outside the bottom 4 we would be a top 8 team.

Look at what happened to Manly when Tommy T came back. If we swapped our 3 highest paid for Tom and Jake and DCE or swapped them for Taumalolo, Val Holmes and Micheal Morgan pre injury we would be a top 8 team let alone if we swapped with top 4 clubs - if we swapped our too 3 for Teddy, Keary and Chrichton or Cleary, Kikau and Crichton or Latrell, Murray, Cody W or Munster, Paps, Bromwich/Grant at the storm

What we really need is not a slightly better this or that or but too focus on buying 3 top class players. Now we might not get 3 in one offseason but find the first one as they tried to do with Latrell and JAC we need to find some genuine test level players even if we need to pay signifcant overs for the first one but make it a genuine star.

I actually think we have made good moves in buying some exceptional young players who might well turn into top 3 level players - Laurie, Douehi, Blore, Stefano, Simpkins all have that potential but we need to bring in a top 3 player.

We have gaps in our outside backs , half back and lock so lets aim for one in each of those.

Mayby Hastings is it at halfback so lets find a star outside back and a star lock. I understand why Madge would look at Sam Burgess because he might be that for 18 months and he would set standards on tje field and training paddock although perhap not in life.

Interested in peoples thoughts

Absolutely spot on. Too much money tied up in the top three that are not delivering what they are getting paid. One, Packer, will definitely be gone for 2022. Hopefully we can offload Mbye as well, without paying huge freight. Brooks has until the end of the year IMO, otherwise he can be shopped around as well. That would free up the top 3 money spots for better value players.

I'd suggest the coach is on borrowed time. Blame the players all you want but the extremely poor defence rests with the coach. You want stability, I want our team to improve and we're not getting that under Maguire. No player of note will come here with Maguire as coach.

The players are the ones on the field not the coach. It’s the players that are the problem with a number of them that won’t be here next year.

Fair enough. And if we don't improve in this area next year? It's still the players' fault then too?

End of next year we are obviously in a different position, if Madge only has 1 year to run and he would have had 4 years in charge by that stage, including 2+ years with what is supposed to be the core of a new generation of Tigers - Laurie, Doueihi, Simpkins, Simpkin, Stefano, Blore. He's got a couple of really promising kids also coming through the juniors, so the foundation is there.

You'd have to decide who's available for 2023 at the time.

I think there is a general consensus that Madge has been hampered by mistakes of the past, and that 2021 is really the first year he can lay claim to having had the team long enough, and enough cap space available to do some of what he wants. And that "some" should see some improvements. Not happening so far. Therefore by end of 2022, he'll have had 2 years of that situation, arguably even better in 2022 with Packer's money freeing up (maybe some of Mbye too), and you'll see what's possible with a bit more spending money and year under the belt of the most promising juniors like Laurie, Stefano, Blore.

 

[sleeve]

So i look at our club and the other clubs and what we lack is quality at the real top end.

Our 3 highest paid players are Mbye, Brooks, Packer and at the start of the season it was Josh Reynolds

If I compare this to the top 3 in almost every other club then this is really where we fall over.

I would almost go as far to say that if we swapped the top 3 players at every club outside the bottom 4 we would be a top 8 team.

Look at what happened to Manly when Tommy T came back. If we swapped our 3 highest paid for Tom and Jake and DCE or swapped them for Taumalolo, Val Holmes and Micheal Morgan pre injury we would be a top 8 team let alone if we swapped with top 4 clubs - if we swapped our too 3 for Teddy, Keary and Chrichton or Cleary, Kikau and Crichton or Latrell, Murray, Cody W or Munster, Paps, Bromwich/Grant at the storm

What we really need is not a slightly better this or that or but too focus on buying 3 top class players. Now we might not get 3 in one offseason but find the first one as they tried to do with Latrell and JAC we need to find some genuine test level players even if we need to pay signifcant overs for the first one but make it a genuine star.

I actually think we have made good moves in buying some exceptional young players who might well turn into top 3 level players - Laurie, Douehi, Blore, Stefano, Simpkins all have that potential but we need to bring in a top 3 player.

We have gaps in our outside backs , half back and lock so lets aim for one in each of those.

Mayby Hastings is it at halfback so lets find a star outside back and a star lock. I understand why Madge would look at Sam Burgess because he might be that for 18 months and he would set standards on tje field and training paddock although perhap not in life.

Interested in peoples thoughts

Absolutely spot on. Too much money tied up in the top three that are not delivering what they are getting paid. One, Packer, will definitely be gone for 2022. Hopefully we can offload Mbye as well, without paying huge freight. Brooks has until the end of the year IMO, otherwise he can be shopped around as well. That would free up the top 3 money spots for better value players.

I'd suggest the coach is on borrowed time. Blame the players all you want but the extremely poor defence rests with the coach. You want stability, I want our team to improve and we're not getting that under Maguire. No player of note will come here with Maguire as coach.

The players are the ones on the field not the coach. It’s the players that are the problem with a number of them that won’t be here next year.

Fair enough. And if we don't improve in this area next year? It's still the players' fault then too?

End of next year we are obviously in a different position, if Madge only has 1 year to run and he would have had 4 years in charge by that stage, including 2+ years with what is supposed to be the core of a new generation of Tigers - Laurie, Doueihi, Simpkins, Simpkin, Stefano, Blore. He's got a couple of really promising kids also coming through the juniors, so the foundation is there.

You'd have to decide who's available for 2023 at the time.

I think there is a general consensus that Madge has been hampered by mistakes of the past, and that 2021 is really the first year he can lay claim to having had the team long enough, and enough cap space available to do some of what he wants. And that "some" should see some improvements. Not happening so far. Therefore by end of 2022, he'll have had 2 years of that situation, arguably even better in 2022 with Packer's money freeing up (maybe some of Mbye too), and you'll see what's possible with a bit more spending money and year under the belt of the most promising juniors like Laurie, Stefano, Blore.

Don't we also have Reynolds money as well ?

 

[TrueTiger]

I can go on about the faults of this team,players and coaching style for eternity,however,for all the lacklustre performances that appear to be never ending we must see what Hartigan,Madge and the club are doing to rid us of this culture that has been festering for years..
Myself personally I get disappointed as much as the next mad WTs fan,supporter and member,but I can see with the youth and great talent emerging that there is bright sunshine on the horizon ...
I have to ask why can we almost beat a top 4 contender in Souths and then get beaten by a lower performing team in the space of a week..
I know that the performance against the rabbits took a lot out of the younger players who are still learning and developing,its a natural process in a high level intense arena...the team fought back against the cowboys,titans although disappointing we can clearly see that they started to understand what fight means,after all look at the scoreline the Rabbits had against the Storm albeit their marquee players were out 50 nil,at least our boys tried to scramble back and score points,so that shows me that they are keen to learn and didnt give up,they are steadily showing resilience and learning what NRL really is about...all I want to say is at least give Madge the chance to finish off what he is starting,you cant deny the quality of youth he is developing and building a platform for a much better team and club,learning a trade takes time,give the young guys a chance to show how much they can learn under Madges coaching,if its to hard for them or any other of the squad,then maybe they should have a good look at where they want to be in the future...NRL is a hard game made even harder by rule changes that everyone has to adapt to and source out players that can play to the style the NRL is obviously developing for the future of the game,either its a good thing or a bad thing but we have to adapt......

 

[Tigertragic83]

So i look at our club and the other clubs and what we lack is quality at the real top end.

Our 3 highest paid players are Mbye, Brooks, Packer and at the start of the season it was Josh Reynolds

If I compare this to the top 3 in almost every other club then this is really where we fall over.

I would almost go as far to say that if we swapped the top 3 players at every club outside the bottom 4 we would be a top 8 team.

Look at what happened to Manly when Tommy T came back. If we swapped our 3 highest paid for Tom and Jake and DCE or swapped them for Taumalolo, Val Holmes and Micheal Morgan pre injury we would be a top 8 team let alone if we swapped with top 4 clubs - if we swapped our too 3 for Teddy, Keary and Chrichton or Cleary, Kikau and Crichton or Latrell, Murray, Cody W or Munster, Paps, Bromwich/Grant at the storm

What we really need is not a slightly better this or that or but too focus on buying 3 top class players. Now we might not get 3 in one offseason but find the first one as they tried to do with Latrell and JAC we need to find some genuine test level players even if we need to pay signifcant overs for the first one but make it a genuine star.

I actually think we have made good moves in buying some exceptional young players who might well turn into top 3 level players - Laurie, Douehi, Blore, Stefano, Simpkins all have that potential but we need to bring in a top 3 player.

We have gaps in our outside backs , half back and lock so lets aim for one in each of those.

Mayby Hastings is it at halfback so lets find a star outside back and a star lock. I understand why Madge would look at Sam Burgess because he might be that for 18 months and he would set standards on tje field and training paddock although perhap not in life.

Interested in peoples thoughts

Absolutely spot on. Too much money tied up in the top three that are not delivering what they are getting paid. One, Packer, will definitely be gone for 2022. Hopefully we can offload Mbye as well, without paying huge freight. Brooks has until the end of the year IMO, otherwise he can be shopped around as well. That would free up the top 3 money spots for better value players.

I'd suggest the coach is on borrowed time. Blame the players all you want but the extremely poor defence rests with the coach. You want stability, I want our team to improve and we're not getting that under Maguire. No player of note will come here with Maguire as coach.

The players are the ones on the field not the coach. It’s the players that are the problem with a number of them that won’t be here next year.

I have no doubt some players are defensively weak. But it is the coach who is responsible for improving the defence. He has not done so and our play has regressed. You cannot continue to excuse him.

Doueihi is a fine player but defensively a weak link. He is not a rookie. What do you do with him? He appears not to want to improve.

How does Doueihi appear to not want to improve exactly?

You cannot continue to excuse the players that won’t put in.

How many tries have been scored via him rushing out of the defensive line and leaving a gap? He's a seasoned NRL player but continues to make rookie errors in defence. What do you do with a player who doesn't want or can't learn how to defend?

Exactly how many tries has Doueihi let in? How many has Doueihi saved? How many games has Doueihi played at 5/8?

Quite a few. He is not a rookie and he said himself 5/8 was his junior position. I've watched him in juniors play half. I like him and he does some good things with the ball. But the game also involves defence and being able to work as a team in defence. He is not the only player defensively a liability but defence is the issue which must be fixed. We know a team builds confidence from a strong defence. Letting your team mates down with poor defence must be extremely frustrating to those players who do defend.


Of all the players you could have picked to be defensively weak and you picked Doueihi, our best player on the field by a fair margin. He puts in every week.

Defensively the problem is in the forwards. No team is threatened by our pack, it’s an easy game against the Wests Tigers, you won’t have too many bruises when you play us.

I'll politely disagree with both of you. Defence is a team effort and is all about attitude and getting your body in front of the player. We also have a forward playing as a lock and forwards just simply aren't mobile enough for the current game. Look at south's. No cam Murray and they got crunched by Melbourne. It's not a coincidence. Mbye missed 8 tackles this weekend. Adam douhei made a try saver while lazy people lumbered back into the line.

Defence is an issue for sure, but it ain't the forwards and it sure as hell isn't douhei. Sadly it runs deeper than that. If you have a whole team tackling with douheis intent and passion we wouldn't be having this conversation on the forums

 

[jadtiger]

marzipan on dog droppings

I've never heard that before, what an interesting comment.

I was trying to be careful on what i was saying

 

[facepalmer]

Yeah but we are better off treating our big 3 as Laurie, Douehi and Looch in terms of making them our highest paid rather than just throwing money at aging stars which is how we got messed up in the first place. Even if they aren't highly paid by regular standards it'd just allow us to surround them with better players which could elevate them into bonafide stars anyway.

I am loving the signs I am seeing out of Laurie and Douehi. I think Laurie should be our six honestly and Douehi probably our 13.

1. Dillon
6. Laurie
7. Madden
9. Liddle/Simpkin
13. Douehi

This is the spine I want next year.