guyofthetiger
Well-known member
The forward pack would surely do better if Brooks played his part in building pressure
Brooks Why????
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The_Patriot
Well-known member
@bigsiro said in [Brooks Why????](/post/1050566) said:
What a great post. Absolutely nailed it.
@Spacecub Mitch didn't want to stay, and its very obvious if you see his form from 2017 & 19 when he went to the Eels. He has played far better at Parramatta than he did at the Wests. It kinda looked as if he started playing crap at tigers on purpose when he found out he was going to parra
The argument against Brooks would hold a lot more validity if any one honestly believes that one single player to replace Brooks would make a significant difference to where we find ourselves.
His deficiences do not equate to the level of blame. He is an easy target and I'm not a fan boy - can distinguish between a good performance and not a good one - which is not unique to Brooks. Most of our losses have come from being dominated in the pack and a couple from not having a goal kicker. In our wins Brooks has always played a significant part.
Forwards win matches and no good halfback is going to be a game breaker behind our pack.
His deficiences do not equate to the level of blame. He is an easy target and I'm not a fan boy - can distinguish between a good performance and not a good one - which is not unique to Brooks. Most of our losses have come from being dominated in the pack and a couple from not having a goal kicker. In our wins Brooks has always played a significant part.
Forwards win matches and no good halfback is going to be a game breaker behind our pack.
GNR4LIFE
Well-known member
@Telltails said in [Brooks Why????](/post/1050591) said:
What a great post. Absolutely nailed it.
bigsiro
Well-known member
@jadtiger said in [Brooks Why????](/post/1050620) said:
I don't disagree with you guys re the pack being weak and how this severely handicaps the type of impact we can allow any half to have. The forwards most definitely need a rocket up them and we also need to recruit a Sironen and a Roach.
Totally on the level with that.
I (and many others) happen to think that Brooks is as weak a link as our forward pack (if not weaker).
I see the point that because he is arguably in the position of greater responsibility (halfback) he is in the spotlight more and is thereby subject to greater scrutiny. Fair enough.
Still, I am prepared to apportion blame. Brooks fans refuse to. This degree of absolute denial and willful blindness that Brooks fans have undermine the logical arguments pro Brooks IMO.
In comparing to Johns and Thurston; the many years that Thurston and Johns teams missed the finals everyone still recognized the halves as accomplished players who (despite having a crap team) led from the front, kicked beautifully and despite the inadequacies of the backlines and forward packs, didn't go missing and kept creating chances. I don't think it's a fair comparison.
Perhaps a better comparison is Chad Townsend, who is another one-dimensional half and who needs a creative organiser alongside him so that he can go unnoticed and just do his 1-2 good things a game. IMO Townsend has made an artform out of this, and has become a valuable, role-playing cog.
I admit I expect more from Brooks. Every champion team needs a champion in the halves. Brooks is just not that guy. He never will be. He will never be Andrew Johns. He may never even have the chance to be Chad Townsend.
Curly_Tiger
Well-known member
I know stats don't tell the full story but look at these, definitely doesn't sound like a halfback that isn't pulling his weight
Line Engagement - 1st
Offloads - Most among halfbacks
Try Assists - 7th Eq
Line Break Assists - 22nd Eq same as Cleary and one less than Pongs
Receipts - 3rd most among halfbacks
Support Play - 3rd
Run Metres - Most among halfbacks
All Kicks - 5th
Kick Meters - 5th
Errors - not listed
I don't think Luke Brooks is in the top 10 of our biggest issues, but that's just my opinion
Line Engagement - 1st
Offloads - Most among halfbacks
Try Assists - 7th Eq
Line Break Assists - 22nd Eq same as Cleary and one less than Pongs
Receipts - 3rd most among halfbacks
Support Play - 3rd
Run Metres - Most among halfbacks
All Kicks - 5th
Kick Meters - 5th
Errors - not listed
I don't think Luke Brooks is in the top 10 of our biggest issues, but that's just my opinion
See alot of comments about forwards sucking against manly and yes they out controlled us in a high quality game.
However just a week ago we had enough ball to win 5 games and couldnt ice our opportunities.
Same story year after year
For me he's a running 5/8 and will play better if someone else is controlling the game.
However just a week ago we had enough ball to win 5 games and couldnt ice our opportunities.
Same story year after year
For me he's a running 5/8 and will play better if someone else is controlling the game.
jirskyr
Well-known member
@bigsiro said in [Brooks Why????](/post/1050630) said:
Perhaps some Brooks fans deny any wrongdoing, but I think there are also a lot of people giving Brooks a pass mark or better, who realise he has deficiencies but also weigh those up against the deficiencies of the team as a whole.
For example, how much is Brooks getting paid per year? Zerotackle reports it as $550K now and approx $600K for the next 5 years - the extension last year until 2023. Moses on the other hand reportedly signed a 3-year extension of $800K per season, same source.
If this is accurate, Brooks costs 75% of what Moses currently does. This immediately opens up a new line of conversation, something like "yeah well at least Moses gets his team to the finals etc. etc." and we fall back onto the discussion of ability vs roster.
My question in that regard - ability vs roster - moves to Tedesco, who is arguably the best footballer going around right now and was already established as one of the game's best when playing for Tigers. But we never made the finals when he played for us, not in 5 complete seasons. Is Tedesco that much better than he used to be, or is he just achieving more personal success because of the rosters he is now playing in?
Or to put it another way, Tigers came 14th in Tedesco's last season, then he IMMEDIATELY won a premiership the following season. Did his form dramatically improve, or was he simply supported by a much much better cast?
Similarly, you can't fluke a Dally M positional award.
Is Mitchell Pearce a better HB than Brooks? Because Pearce hasn't played a finals match since leaving the Roosters, which for me is an interesting comparison. Pearce played finals 6 of 11 seasons at the Roosters, which is hardly great, but they did get 1 premiership, 1 RU and 3 MPs in that period.
Ultimately, I would be ok to move Brooks on, or move him around to different positions, if there was a better option available. Someone can wake me when that better option comes along. Until then, the focus on the roster rebuild is, in my opinion, not pointing fingers at Brooks but rather replacing the ordinary footballers we have in other positions.
This argument grows old.
I won’t say I’ve ever been a fan boy of Brooks but I do admire his skill set which is vast.
It is his understanding of the play within the game that bothers me.
In addition to this. Other than his debut game and following season. He just hasn’t looked to be energetic in anything he did. Until last season.
The comparisons of Moses and Brooks in one season are fair but roll the tape back to the year before and analysis how Brooks and Moses were playing and more importantly their teams.
Brooks had a great year last year, Moses had a tough year last year. In comparison Brooks has had a solid year this year and Moses is having a great year this year.
Did you know Moses and Norman both got the most forced drop outs from all the teams last year. But in similar circumstances to us this year just couldn’t convert it to points.
Brooks doesn’t not have instinct, it’s just nearly been coached out of him.
He has changed from a young Luke Keary to a Chad Townsend type and appears to be doing a role of just playing the team through sets.
When Brooks came into grade he had a great little grubber.
Speed to burn.
A good long low driving kick.
Good front low driving tackle.
A flick pass.
A good drop kick.
Bad defensive reads.
Not the best weight or depth when he would bomb.
Lack of a cross field kick.
His grubber has dropped off a bit this year but last year was one of the most consistent in the league.
His short passing was so on point nearly every try assist came from the no look ball he gave to his outside runner.
Things his improved dramatically is his defence, front on contact especially.
His line running.
His accuracy of the high kicks.
His criticised for the constant crash ball other then hitting the outside man. However I’d like to make a point that only whilst Mbye was outside him at centre was he making breaks down his side or positioning his centre or backrower to make a break down his side.
I would like to make a point that although Marshall appears to be our most dangerous player. Having a five eight without speed means that all the running plays are going to come off Brooks, other then his deceptive passes Marshall offers no real threat to the line as a runner himself.
Robbie through all his creativity is in the same boat, Thompson is essentially our only X factor player and really is learning or more so adapting to our shapes out the back.
In comparison to Parramatta whom all their spine players are fast and good tackle breakers.
This makes the Moses plays more selective as their is also Gutherson, Brown and Mahoney that support or create themselves.
I disagree that a team doesn’t have a roll playing halfback.
The Raiders on the weekend were void of strike when Whiton was off the field. And using the same game you can’t tell me that Munster isn’t the dominant half in that team. Should he play halfback?
So those calling for Brooks to be moved to five eight actually want him to be in a position where he is called on to provide more strike?
Rather than look at what we need which is a game breaking five eight you want another managing halfback ala Sezer and Croft.
I won’t say I’ve ever been a fan boy of Brooks but I do admire his skill set which is vast.
It is his understanding of the play within the game that bothers me.
In addition to this. Other than his debut game and following season. He just hasn’t looked to be energetic in anything he did. Until last season.
The comparisons of Moses and Brooks in one season are fair but roll the tape back to the year before and analysis how Brooks and Moses were playing and more importantly their teams.
Brooks had a great year last year, Moses had a tough year last year. In comparison Brooks has had a solid year this year and Moses is having a great year this year.
Did you know Moses and Norman both got the most forced drop outs from all the teams last year. But in similar circumstances to us this year just couldn’t convert it to points.
Brooks doesn’t not have instinct, it’s just nearly been coached out of him.
He has changed from a young Luke Keary to a Chad Townsend type and appears to be doing a role of just playing the team through sets.
When Brooks came into grade he had a great little grubber.
Speed to burn.
A good long low driving kick.
Good front low driving tackle.
A flick pass.
A good drop kick.
Bad defensive reads.
Not the best weight or depth when he would bomb.
Lack of a cross field kick.
His grubber has dropped off a bit this year but last year was one of the most consistent in the league.
His short passing was so on point nearly every try assist came from the no look ball he gave to his outside runner.
Things his improved dramatically is his defence, front on contact especially.
His line running.
His accuracy of the high kicks.
His criticised for the constant crash ball other then hitting the outside man. However I’d like to make a point that only whilst Mbye was outside him at centre was he making breaks down his side or positioning his centre or backrower to make a break down his side.
I would like to make a point that although Marshall appears to be our most dangerous player. Having a five eight without speed means that all the running plays are going to come off Brooks, other then his deceptive passes Marshall offers no real threat to the line as a runner himself.
Robbie through all his creativity is in the same boat, Thompson is essentially our only X factor player and really is learning or more so adapting to our shapes out the back.
In comparison to Parramatta whom all their spine players are fast and good tackle breakers.
This makes the Moses plays more selective as their is also Gutherson, Brown and Mahoney that support or create themselves.
I disagree that a team doesn’t have a roll playing halfback.
The Raiders on the weekend were void of strike when Whiton was off the field. And using the same game you can’t tell me that Munster isn’t the dominant half in that team. Should he play halfback?
So those calling for Brooks to be moved to five eight actually want him to be in a position where he is called on to provide more strike?
Rather than look at what we need which is a game breaking five eight you want another managing halfback ala Sezer and Croft.
**> Receipts - 3rd most among halfbacks**@Curly_Tiger said in [Brooks Why????](/post/1050634) said:
Support Play - 3rd
Run Metres - Most among halfbacks
All Kicks - 5th
Kick Meters - 5th
Errors - not listed
I don't think Luke Brooks is in the top 10 of our biggest issues, but that's just my opinion
The stat about receipts is interesting.
Most people try to shoot down his detractors by blaming Robbie for always passing the ball to Benji or that Benji continually overcalls him and demands the ball... seems it isn't so.
GNR4LIFE
Well-known member
What confounds me is the posters who have made it their mission to push Moses barrel. Not because I don't like him or because of the way he carried on before he left, but just because...why? Why do we get reminded over and over that Moses is the better player, to what end? It wasn't anybody on the forum who pulled his contract. At the time, we all wanted him to stay. You could take it up with the club, but the culprit who let him go is no longer here either. And I don't remember him copping it for that decision before he stabbed the club in the back when everyone thought the sun shone out of his backside. I know most of you like to deal with reality and facts, and the reality and facts of the situation are Moses is gone, and Brooks is here. No amount of Nelson Munce ha haing will bring Moses back and just confuses the rest of us, because we didn't make the decision to pull his contract.
Tigers_Tale
Well-known member
@Zach Well mate find a better halfback available , that is better than Brookes before you do what other coaches have done and see our players shine.
Well that is what actually happen watch the replay, the Manly player pulled his leg and that made Brookes come down, as normally happens if your laying on the ground pulling somebody's leg, ie gravity
Well that is what actually happen watch the replay, the Manly player pulled his leg and that made Brookes come down, as normally happens if your laying on the ground pulling somebody's leg, ie gravity
The_Patriot
Well-known member
@GNR4LIFE said in [Brooks Why????](/post/1050663) said:
Most of it used as a comparison how one player has gone to another level or how one handles the occasion better than the other.
its a legit comparison given they started together here.
And despite what you think this is a forum, a place for discussing these type of comparisons and opinions.
The_Patriot
Well-known member
Looks like a few people have their knickers in a knot.
Great post Big Siro. Sorted the 9th's from the guys who like to win things.
Great post Big Siro. Sorted the 9th's from the guys who like to win things.
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