Clearing the decks

[cochise]

Not sure if someone has already brought this up. Is there such a thing as a marque &/or veteran player allowance & if so how much of it would cover the salary of guys like Robbie, Keithy & Rowdy?

Moving forward I really hope we keep Lawrence & Robbie (for at least 1 year in Robbie's case). Cherrington is good but I don't know that he is ready for the week-in week-out toughness of 1st grade just yet (i.e. look how Brooks/Moses struggle at times). So it would be great for him to continue to play off the bench like he has been. The club may be thinking the same however they may think that Dene would be a cheaper/just-as-reliable option as Robbie if we were to play 2 hookers in the 17\. I don't think Keithy has been bad this year but we have guys like Sue, Ava & Lodge who can/should step up to the plate next year.

With re. to Lawrence, he is really going well in the backrow. His experience & performance can only benefit our young squad.

Plenty for Tigers mgt to think about. I just hope they make the right decisions.

Looked this up earlier this morning. There is a Long Serving Player allowance ($200k) and Marquee Player allowance ($600k). The aforementioned funded by the NRL and the latter by club sponsors. Both outside the standard $5.5M for the cap. Rowdy been with the club since 2006 so brings his years to 9 so should receive some compensation there. Farah since 2003 so 12 years and would be entitled to a slice of the pie as well. Can't find anywhere on the site (below) that mentions if this is a per player entitlement or just a "if you've got a couple of players over 8 years service then here is 200k to divide as you see fit."

In addition, according to the WT player profiles (http://www.weststigers.com.au/team/player-profiles.html) there are 35 players listed (most of whom have played FG). This would (should; I'm not a lawyer) mean we are also entitled to an additional $440k for I think what is colloquially called the 'second teir cap' - or players that are not in the top 25 who end up playing FG.

So my summary (if I am anywhere near correct) is:

$5,500k - Cap
$200k - LSP allowance
$600k - Sponsor kickbacks
$440k - 2nd Teir Cap

TOTAL - $$6.84M to spread throughout the masses. Does not include super, car allowance and the $100k that is supposed to cover the admin of this.

Overall summary:

Where the f**k did the 100k go to put us in this mess? I'll do it for 80k…
If we have really chewed all this up, we really have problems*

* if I am correct in my assumptions.

For more info, you can check the below.
http://www.nrl.com/nrlhq/referencecentre/salarycap/tabid/10434/default.aspx

**Salary cap** is actually $6.55 million for 2015
**Long Serving Play allowance** now kicks in at 6 years on a sliding scale with a maximum 0f $250k per club.
**The Marquee Player Allowance and Sponsor Allowance** is now included in the base salary cap.

So in total a little more than you thought but not much so a good summation.

We are in this mess for one reason and one reason only, as a club we have a history of backloading contracts. In the past each successive ceo has made this situation worse when they discovered it by taking the short term fix and continuing the practice. The current board is coping grief because they have said enough is enough and are fixing the situation.

 

[ricksen]

Fair to say our preference for long term, back loaded deals was due to the belief that we were in a premiership window back in 2010-12\. Fair enough too - with a bit of luck, we could have won it in either '10 or '11\. Less said about 2012 the better….
And to be honest, we weren't helped with the massive freak injuries around the time - how many other teams have had two top, young stars retire due to injury within 18 months (Dwyer and Tuiaki)? Throw in the Lawrence hip thing for good measure... we must have upset some football gods in some realm or sphere.

However...
That doesn't excuse the lack of foresight by the old regime. It also doesn't excuse the failure of anyone to begin work on this crap under Mayer's watch (ie 2013).
This situation hasn't just magically appeared in 2015, it's obviously been slowly crawling toward its nadir in which we currently find ourselves.

In a salary capped league, a team's management of said cap is probably the most important off field responsibility. It's a massive point of difference, and as we'll see on Friday night, can be the difference between a team on top or the bottom of the ladder.
Until Moss came on board, it seems we had interns and work experience kids in charge of or cap.
Beyond ridiculous, and tbh the club deserves every bit of mud that is currently being hurled in its general direction.

 

[cochise]

Fair to say our preference for long term, back loaded deals was due to the belief that we were in a premiership window back in 2010-12\. Fair enough too - with a bit of luck, we could have won it in either '10 or '11\. Less said about 2012 the better….
And to be honest, we weren't helped with the massive freak injuries around the time - how many other teams have had two top, young stars retire due to injury within 18 months (Dwyer and Tuiaki)? Throw in the Lawrence hip thing for good measure... we must have upset some football gods in some realm or sphere.

However...
That doesn't excuse the lack of foresight by the old regime. It also doesn't excuse the failure of anyone to begin work on this crap under Mayer's watch (ie 2013).
This situation hasn't just magically appeared in 2015, it's obviously been slowly crawling toward its nadir in which we currently find ourselves.

In a salary capped league, a team's management of said cap is probably the most important off field responsibility. It's a massive point of difference, and as we'll see on Friday night, can be the difference between a team on top or the bottom of the ladder.
Until Moss came on board, it seems we had interns and work experience kids in charge of or cap.
Beyond ridiculous, and tbh the club deserves every bit of mud that is currently being hurled in its general direction.

A spot on post, this should have been fixed years ago. Problem is to fix it we would have gone through similar pain to what we are experiencing now. It was easier for all involved to continue the practice of backloading contracts because it still allowed us to sign players. The current board should actually be commended for attempting to fix the mess we are in.

 

[LCA]

I can just see the 2016 membership slogan now: Losers. But trying. Commit.

It would make as much sense as the current one and be more honest.

 

[cochise]

I can just see the 2016 membership slogan now: Losers. But trying. Commit.

It would make as much sense as the current one and be more honest.

So what would you like the club to do? I hear plenty of people who are critical of the board, how about a suggestion for a solution to the salary cap mess.

 

[TrueTiger]

I can just see the 2016 membership slogan now: Losers. But trying. Commit.

It would make as much sense as the current one and be more honest.

So what would you like the club to do? I hear plenty of people who are critical of the board, how about a suggestion for a solution to the salary cap mess.

Give credit where it's due,ok the other boards took the short cuts knowing they won't have to face the consequences,this board at least is having ago at sorting the s$&t from the mud,let's perservere with the path they are on…surely it can't be as bad as it has been..

If it is then we are truly screwed and looking at oblivion me thinks... :mrgreen:

 

[diedpretty]

I'm speaking out of ignorance here but here's a 'what if'.
It was recently announced that Meriton would no longer be a major sponsor. Could it be that there is a plan for Harry Triguboff to assist the club by relieving pressure on the cap, offering third party agreements to the likes of Farah etc. If the player/s agreed to accept a drop in their contracted pay, essentially sign new reduced contacts, could Mr Triguboff legally cover their loss with a TPA?
Pie in the sky speculation I know but…....?

In the real world I believe there is nothing wrong with re arranging a contract if both parties agree - in the NRL I am not so sure.

 

[Mccarry]

After all the threads
After all the media articles
After all the announcements from the board

The current back loading excuse just doesn't add up.

Our roster wasn't amazing 3 years ago - if we were paying less then why didn't we have better players. We didn't spend under the minimum back then. It doesn't add up.

Either they have back ended every contract (I severely doubt that) or they are preparing us for a very unfavourable decision.

There are only two announcements that could be worth the 'preparing the ground campaign'

Farah is going to another club because they see Cherrington as the future
Or
We are relocating (I doubt it)

Get ready Tigers fans… Something big (and bad) is coming. Nothing else makes sense.

_Posted using RoarFEED 4.2.0_

 

[cochise]

After all the threads
After all the media articles
After all the announcements from the board

The current back loading excuse just doesn't add up.

Our roster wasn't amazing 3 years ago - if we were paying less then why didn't we have better players. We didn't spend under the minimum back then. It doesn't add up.

Either they have back ended every contract (I severely doubt that) or they are preparing us for a very unfavourable decision.

There are only two announcements that could be worth the 'preparing the ground campaign'

Farah is going to another club because they see Cherrington as the future
Or
We are relocating (I doubt it)

Get ready Tigers fans… Something big (and bad) is coming. Nothing else makes sense.

_Posted using RoarFEED 4.2.0_

I'd guess the backloading started at least 5-6 years ago and we have continued the practice every since then. The problem with backloading contracts is once you have done it, it becomes very hard to not continue to do it in the future. You are short changing your cap space every year and the only way to sign players moving forward is to backload future contracts. We have made the right decision to try and stop backloading contracts. The problem it creates is you can not sign players because you are paying players for previous years service in the current cap. So you are therefore paying some players well above their market value for the current year and trying to sign and keep players at their market value. It then gets compounded more for a club like the Wests Tigers that have to pay overs for players.

I do not see how people feel that the numbers don't add up. People take a too simplistic view of the salary cap and like to compare teams squad lists and state that team X can't be spending the salary cap because their roster is inferior to team y's roster. The salary cap does not work like that.

 

[cunno]

I'm speaking out of ignorance here but here's a 'what if'.
It was recently announced that Meriton would no longer be a major sponsor. Could it be that there is a plan for Harry Triguboff to assist the club by relieving pressure on the cap, offering third party agreements to the likes of Farah etc. If the player/s agreed to accept a drop in their contracted pay, essentially sign new reduced contacts, could Mr Triguboff legally cover their loss with a TPA?
Pie in the sky speculation I know but…....?

I thought of the same possibility in terms of Harry as you have mentioned NT, not sure about the reduced contracts part of it but Harry may have agreed to take a 'politis' role at Wests Tigers? I can't see how the club can be expected to survive 2 to 3 years coming last and not being able to buy players, the Board must be thinking outside the box to try and work around the current mess, perhaps, well aren't they eminent business people or similar?

 

[Blackpearl]

I'm speaking out of ignorance here but here's a 'what if'.
It was recently announced that Meriton would no longer be a major sponsor. Could it be that there is a plan for Harry Triguboff to assist the club by relieving pressure on the cap, offering third party agreements to the likes of Farah etc. If the player/s agreed to accept a drop in their contracted pay, essentially sign new reduced contacts, could Mr Triguboff legally cover their loss with a TPA?
Pie in the sky speculation I know but…....?

I thought of the same possibility in terms of Harry as you have mentioned NT, not sure about the reduced contracts part of it but Harry may have agreed to take a 'politis' role at Wests Tigers? I can't see how the club can be expected to survive 2 to 3 years coming last and not being able to buy players, the Board must be thinking outside the box to try and work around the current mess, perhaps, well aren't they eminent business people or similar?

Same thoughts here as well cunno.
I have mentioned before on another thread that it would be great to see HT buy into the weststigers in a big way. I know it's probably a pipe dream but you can only hope.

 

[Blackpearl]

I'm speaking out of ignorance here but here's a 'what if'.
It was recently announced that Meriton would no longer be a major sponsor. Could it be that there is a plan for Harry Triguboff to assist the club by relieving pressure on the cap, offering third party agreements to the likes of Farah etc. If the player/s agreed to accept a drop in their contracted pay, essentially sign new reduced contacts, could Mr Triguboff legally cover their loss with a TPA?
Pie in the sky speculation I know but…....?

I thought of the same possibility in terms of Harry as you have mentioned NT, not sure about the reduced contracts part of it but Harry may have agreed to take a 'politis' role at Wests Tigers? I can't see how the club can be expected to survive 2 to 3 years coming last and not being able to buy players, the Board must be thinking outside the box to try and work around the current mess, perhaps, well aren't they eminent business people or similar?

Same thoughts here as well cunno.
I have mentioned before on another thread that it would be great to see HT buy into the weststigers in a big way. I know it's probably a pipe dream but you can only hope.

 

[ricksen]

After all the threads
After all the media articles
After all the announcements from the board

The current back loading excuse just doesn't add up.

Our roster wasn't amazing 3 years ago - if we were paying less then why didn't we have better players. We didn't spend under the minimum back then. It doesn't add up.

Either they have back ended every contract (I severely doubt that) or they are preparing us for a very unfavourable decision.

There are only two announcements that could be worth the 'preparing the ground campaign'

Farah is going to another club because they see Cherrington as the future
Or
We are relocating (I doubt it)

Get ready Tigers fans… Something big (and bad) is coming. Nothing else makes sense.

_Posted using RoarFEED 4.2.0_

The Farah move wouldn't surprise me, but I don't buy any of the relocation conspiracy.

Remember 3 years ago we were favourites for the comp. We had plenty of big names - Benji, Farah, Lote, Blair, Lawrence, Ellis and so on. All big bucks. We were also infamously paying several players to play for other clubs - mostly down at Remondis Tip.
Instead of blowing it up there and then when it was apparent that team's window was closed, they chased quick fixes in the shape of Anasta et al.

 

[jadtiger]

Backloading contracts has been happening for years going back as far as noyce and every ceo since has added to the load.There comes a time when you see what damage it causes unfortunately that time is now.If we get it right from here we will come out a better stronger club after much pain. i just wish we had a decent coach to guide the team

 

[goldcoast_tiger]

Speculation and innuendo aside, we must make whatever decisions are necessary to make sure that our spine for the next decade is Tedesco, Moses, Brooks, and Cherrington.

They are the backbone of whatever we do in the future, and if it means moving along 'club favourites' (Halatau, Galloway, Farah even), then so be it.

We don't need to be that active in the player market, just make sure we keep and develop what we already have, and in the seasons to come these guys could each be superstars in their own right.

I just hope the club sees it this way.

Jeez, the term "superstars "gets thrown around easily in this club.
\
\
Their is no doubt this is what the club intends to do and I think they believed all the media hype that we had abundance of young talent at the club and the golden years are fast approaching. In reality you need a majority of hard headed players mixed with a few kids, our balance is way out of wack and our kids have stagnated. We need to be VERY active in the player market and the message from HQ is, that is not going to happen. The horse has bolted for 2016, all the better players on the market have found new homes but this club will be stuffed if they do not come up with some cap space for next years ing sales

 

[Eddie]

I reckon the Salary cap situation is ordinary but probably not as bad as being made out.

I reckon what they don"t want to tell you is the club is broke and has zero cash. It is much easier to say the cap is stuffed then say your broke.

With the NRL controlling the board, propping up the club and giving Balmain dates to repay the money dont rule out the relocation angle in a couple of years if we don't get our act together quick.

 

[goldcoast_tiger]

After all the threads
After all the media articles
After all the announcements from the board

The current back loading excuse just doesn't add up.

Our roster wasn't amazing 3 years ago - if we were paying less then why didn't we have better players. We didn't spend under the minimum back then. It doesn't add up.

Either they have back ended every contract (I severely doubt that) or they are preparing us for a very unfavourable decision.

There are only two announcements that could be worth the 'preparing the ground campaign'

Farah is going to another club because they see Cherrington as the future
Or
We are relocating (I doubt it)

Get ready Tigers fans… Something big (and bad) is coming. Nothing else makes sense.

_Posted using RoarFEED 4.2.0_

Seriously , how does Farah going to another club help us. At this stage of his career, no club will want to pay his backloaded contract, so we will still be paying a big part of his money,
Doesn't make sense.

 

[Nors05]

I reckon the Salary cap situation is ordinary but probably not as bad as being made out.

I reckon what they don"t want to tell you is the club is broke and has zero cash. It is much easier to say the cap is stuffed then say your broke.

With the NRL controlling the board, propping up the club and giving Balmain dates to repay the money dont rule out the relocation angle in a couple of years if we don't get our act together quick.

The Salary Cap is funded by the NRL. Every club has the exact same amount of money to spend on players and it doesn't come out of their pockets.

Our issue is that we cannot arrange TPAs for our players. Hopefully with the departure of Meriton, HT will be able to provide this.

 

[alexaki]

I reckon the Salary cap situation is ordinary but probably not as bad as being made out.

I reckon what they don"t want to tell you is the club is broke and has zero cash. It is much easier to say the cap is stuffed then say your broke.

With the NRL controlling the board, propping up the club and giving Balmain dates to repay the money dont rule out the relocation angle in a couple of years if we don't get our act together quick.

Precisely

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[Mccarry]

My guess in regards to Farah is

Klemmer to Tiges
Farah to Bulldogs

200k TPA to help fund it

Hasler then has most of a team to win the comp.

They are paying 400k+ for a bench prop when their fantastic pack just needs an elite hooker.

Galloway then to Manly and we resign Ava.

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