Clearing the decks

[supercoach]

Iam not sold on the conspiricey theory that we are being primed up for relocation. I think the NRL know they need a team in the South West of Sydney,so why would they want us out??

Although I do agree with others that it must be more than the salary cap and that points to a lack of dollars.

The way I see it all the PR spin in the world will not save this club if we are cellar dwellers for another three years and that will happen if we do not inject some new quality players into our top 17\. How we achieve this is anyone's guess,but if we don't we are shot ducks

 

[Abraham]

Speculation and innuendo aside, we must make whatever decisions are necessary to make sure that our spine for the next decade is Tedesco, Moses, Brooks, and Cherrington.

They are the backbone of whatever we do in the future, and if it means moving along 'club favourites' (Halatau, Galloway, Farah even), then so be it.

We don't need to be that active in the player market, just make sure we keep and develop what we already have, and in the seasons to come these guys could each be superstars in their own right.

I just hope the club sees it this way.

Their is no doubt this is what the club intends to do and I think they believed all the media hype that we had abundance of young talent at the club and the golden years are fast approaching. In reality you need a majority of hard headed players mixed with a few kids, our balance is way out of wack and our kids have stagnated. We need to be VERY active in the player market and the message from HQ is, that is not going to happen. The horse has bolted for 2016, all the better players on the market have found new homes but this club will be stuffed if they do not come up with some cap space for next years ing sales

I don't think we need to be all that active in the player market at all.

Yes we need an experienced centre and a hard headed backrower, that's what everyone has been crying out for, and with good reason.

But aside from that we seem to have most bases covered 1-17.

Our biggest issue is when 1-17 is not on the paddock, and the lack of depth that sees us throw kids and reserve graders into the fray.

That's an issue that most clubs have however.

 

[Abraham]

I reckon the Salary cap situation is ordinary but probably not as bad as being made out.

I reckon what they don"t want to tell you is the club is broke and has zero cash. It is much easier to say the cap is stuffed then say your broke.

With the NRL controlling the board, propping up the club and giving Balmain dates to repay the money dont rule out the relocation angle in a couple of years if we don't get our act together quick.

I've got mixed thoughts on the salary cap issue.

Tiger Torch mentioned a few weeks back that we are UNDER for 2016, but struggling for cash. Not that I take whatever he says as Gospel, however he has a fairly good record as far as 'inside info' goes.

Then on the other hand Phil Moss and others within the club have been vocal about the cap mess, and then there is the mystery surrounding Mayer's sudden departure.

So not sure what to believe to be honest?

 

[TigerSJ]

I have read all of this but still don't fathom how if we aren't resigning Pat, Halatau or Keithy, and we don't keep Lovett, Buchanan, Moltzen or Ava (I believe they all are off contract this season) - then how can we have NO money to buy at least one second rower and a centre for 2016??
Also, Farah isn't going anywhere until his contract expires and Lawrence should be resigned under a new more reasonable deal to stay at the Tigers.

 

[yeti]

I reckon the Salary cap situation is ordinary but probably not as bad as being made out.

I reckon what they don"t want to tell you is the club is broke and has zero cash. It is much easier to say the cap is stuffed then say your broke.

With the NRL controlling the board, propping up the club and giving Balmain dates to repay the money dont rule out the relocation angle in a couple of years if we don't get our act together quick.

I've got mixed thoughts on the salary cap issue.

Tiger Torch mentioned a few weeks back that we are UNDER for 2016, but struggling for cash. Not that I take whatever he says as Gospel, however he has a fairly good record as far as 'inside info' goes.

Then on the other hand Phil Moss and others within the club have been vocal about the cap mess, and then there is the mystery surrounding Mayer's sudden departure.

So not sure what to believe to be honest?

I would think we are probably both broke and have the cap in a mess. Shedding players and not signing new players is possibly just going to pay for back-ended contracts.
However, if this 'period of austerity' we are facing for the next 2 or 3 years finally puts us on a solid financial footing, then I can deal with it. I know that's a big IF. Sometimes you just have to tear down the old structure rather than just patching it up.

 

[cochise]

I have read all of this but still don't fathom how if we aren't resigning Pat, Halatau or Keithy, and we don't keep Lovett, Buchanan, Moltzen or Ava (I believe they all are off contract this season) - then how can we have NO money to buy at least one second rower and a centre for 2016??
Also, Farah isn't going anywhere until his contract expires and Lawrence should be resigned under a new more reasonable deal to stay at the Tigers.

Why should Lawrance sign a new deal, he has one year to run on his current deal. He was paid less in the early years of his deal with a guarantee of big pay years in the final years of his contract. He is effectively being paid money now that he should have been paid in previous years.

Lovett and Buchanan would be on close to minumum wage and would need to be replaced by players on similar pay scale, be that internally or externally. So they do not free up any money.

Lets say Pat, Halatau, moltzen and keith are on $1.2 million between them, I based that estimation off the average wage for an NRL player which is $272K, I even added on an extra $120k because we are probably paying overs. I think between them they would come out close to average wage between them. Each of those players need to be replaced in the top 25 players. Even if we do that at minimum wage, that will cost $320 000\. Now if we have Moses, Brooks, Farah, Woods, Tedesco and Lawrance all on contracts that are increasing in value. Say $100k each extra next year. We are already up to $920K next year of that $1.2 million saving. And in doing that we have replaced 4 above average NRL players with 4 players on minimum wage and probably players already coming through our systems.

If we do all that and only replace experienced players with minimum wage players we have $280k to play with for next year. That will not get us the quality second rower and centre that you are looking for.

 

[TigerSJ]

I have read all of this but still don't fathom how if we aren't resigning Pat, Halatau or Keithy, and we don't keep Lovett, Buchanan, Moltzen or Ava (I believe they all are off contract this season) - then how can we have NO money to buy at least one second rower and a centre for 2016??
Also, Farah isn't going anywhere until his contract expires and Lawrence should be resigned under a new more reasonable deal to stay at the Tigers.

Why should Lawrance sign a new deal, he has one year to run on his current deal. He was paid less in the early years of his deal with a guarantee of big pay years in the final years of his contract. He is effectively being paid money now that he should have been paid in previous years.

Lovett and Buchanan would be on close to minumum wage and would need to be replaced by players on similar pay scale, be that internally or externally. So they do not free up any money.

Lets say Pat, Halatau, moltzen and keith are on $1.2 million between them, I based that estimation off the average wage for an NRL player which is $272K, I even added on an extra $120k because we are probably paying overs. I think between them they would come out close to average wage between them. Each of those players need to be replaced in the top 25 players. Even if we do that at minimum wage, that will cost $320 000\. Now if we have Moses, Brooks, Farah, Woods, Tedesco and Lawrance all on contracts that are increasing in value. Say $100k each extra next year. We are already up to $920K next year of that $1.2 million saving. And in doing that we have replaced 4 above average NRL players with 4 players on minimum wage and probably players already coming through our systems.

If we do all that and only replace experienced players with minimum wage players we have $280k to play with for next year. That will not get us the quality second rower and centre that you are looking for.

Thanks for the response Cochise - maybe if your calculations are correct we need to clear some more dead wood.
On Lawrence - with talk of him going off to SL, and all the other posts re his future, I thought his contract expired end this year.
As for the 4 players we are talking about - where we differ in opinion is I don't see them as "4 ABOVE AVERAGE NRL players" at all.

 

[cochise]

I have read all of this but still don't fathom how if we aren't resigning Pat, Halatau or Keithy, and we don't keep Lovett, Buchanan, Moltzen or Ava (I believe they all are off contract this season) - then how can we have NO money to buy at least one second rower and a centre for 2016??
Also, Farah isn't going anywhere until his contract expires and Lawrence should be resigned under a new more reasonable deal to stay at the Tigers.

Why should Lawrance sign a new deal, he has one year to run on his current deal. He was paid less in the early years of his deal with a guarantee of big pay years in the final years of his contract. He is effectively being paid money now that he should have been paid in previous years.

Lovett and Buchanan would be on close to minumum wage and would need to be replaced by players on similar pay scale, be that internally or externally. So they do not free up any money.

Lets say Pat, Halatau, moltzen and keith are on $1.2 million between them, I based that estimation off the average wage for an NRL player which is $272K, I even added on an extra $120k because we are probably paying overs. I think between them they would come out close to average wage between them. Each of those players need to be replaced in the top 25 players. Even if we do that at minimum wage, that will cost $320 000\. Now if we have Moses, Brooks, Farah, Woods, Tedesco and Lawrance all on contracts that are increasing in value. Say $100k each extra next year. We are already up to $920K next year of that $1.2 million saving. And in doing that we have replaced 4 above average NRL players with 4 players on minimum wage and probably players already coming through our systems.

If we do all that and only replace experienced players with minimum wage players we have $280k to play with for next year. That will not get us the quality second rower and centre that you are looking for.

Thanks for the response Cochise - maybe if your calculations are correct we need to clear some more dead wood.
On Lawrence - with talk of him going off to SL, and all the other posts re his future, I thought his contract expired end this year.
As for the 4 players we are talking about - where we differ in opinion is I don't see them as "4 ABOVE AVERAGE NRL players" at all.

I actually agree with you about the 4 players mentioned, I think we are probably paying them as above average players though. Lawrance is still contracted for next year and the talk of him leaving is getting someone else to take on his contract. But no one will take on a contract of that size.

Also Keith is not off contract until the end of next year, so all our savings on players is gone just by the increases in backloaded contracts.

So even being generous and saying that we are paying $1 million for the Pat, Halatua and Moltzen, if we replace the 3 of them with players on minimum wage that would cost $240K plus the backloaded contracts we are at $840K leaving us $160K to play with. This example shows how easily backloaded contracts can chew up you cap space and prevent a team from signing players.