Coronavirus Outbreak

[diedpretty]

Warp Speed..is this about Star Trek

Yea it was thought up by the self proclaimed Guardian of The Galaxy.

 

[Tiger5150]

The Pfizer vaccine did not receive one cent of US taxpayer funding.

That is not true. In July the US Govt preordered 600Million doses for US$1.92B. That is a LOT of US taxpayer cents.

Before you start splitting hairs between "grants" and pre-orders, it is irrelevant. It is all guaranteed return on investment.

Much is made of the fact that there has never been a vaccine made before for a coronavirus. This is not because it is hard or not possible to make a vaccine for coronavirus, but because previously with other coronavirus (SARS etc) the threat and therefore the demand is over before it is possible to develop a vaccine and therefore millions of $$ washed down the toilet. By pre-ordering and guaranteeing $ 1.92B, the US government made sure of the development.

https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-announce-agreement-us-government-600

Was this pre-order paid for at the time of the order or was it to be paid when and if the order was delivered? This makes a massive difference.


Why does it make a "massive" difference?


It makes zero difference, it is guaranteed return on investment of $1.92M US dollars. More than enough incentive to make it happen.


or in Pfizers own words....*" **Pfizer Inc.** (NYSE: PFE) and BioNTech SE (Nasdaq: BNTX) today announced the execution of an agreement with the ***U.S. Department of Health and Human Services and the Department of Defense to meet the U.S. government’s Operation Warp Speed program*** goal to begin delivering 300 million doses of a vaccine for COVID-19 in 2021. Under the agreement, the U.S. government will receive 100 million doses of BNT162, the COVID-19 vaccine candidate jointly developed by Pfizer and BioNTech, after Pfizer successfully manufactures and obtains approval or emergency use authorization from U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA)."*

This narrative that the Pfizer vaccine had nothing to do with the US government or the "warp speed" project is ridiculous and purely anti Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon driven.

Because the risk is all with Pfizer. They pay for the research and development. The orders only pay off if they are the successful candidate. If it had failed ***or others had beat them*** the pre-orders amount to naught.


Except that that is not true. They just need to make 100M doses and they get the $1.92M.

Why did the US not pre-order from other companies?

False. That is only true because they were successful in developing the vaccine. Had it failed they would have got zip, nada, nothing. Because they have been successful they will get orders from many countries. Warp Speed pre orders are meaningless. Many govts, including the US would order from whoever was successful.


Complete rubbish. So Pfizer are working out if they are going to spend millions/billions on R&D, like every other drug they develop. They sit down and work out if it will be worth it, will the pendemic end before its developed, what the market for it will be, whether it is worth the risk....and the US government comes along and says "you make it and you are guaranteed a minimum of $ 1.92B" and that has no impact on the development of the vaccine? Rubbish.

Lets entertain it for a second....lets say you are right and I am wrong (you arent and Im not).....if thats the case....why did the US pre-order? Why wouldnt they just wait to see who develops it first?

Nope again. Pre-orders mean nothing unless you can produce the product. In the case of vaccines there is a high risk of failure. Actual grants for research and development are meaningful. Whoever developed the vaccine for Covid19 first was always going to make a money, for orders and pre-orders from all over the world. If they don’t produce a viable vaccine all those pre-orders are worthless and they don’t make a cent and lose money.


Except that there isnt a guaranteed market.

Tell me again why a coronavirus has never been previously developed, despite the fact that there have been deadlier coronavirus' previously, but this one was developed in 9 months?

Because there has never been a global pandemic involving one before?


There has been global epidemics with much deadlier strains previously, SARS1 and even more deadlier MERS were both coronaviruses. The reason there was not a vaccine is because they were over quickly and its not worth a Pfizer spending months and millions developing one without a market.

Nope again. They never were more deadly as they didn’t spread as easily as Covid19. They had the potential to be more deadly but it never eventuated as it they weren’t as infectious as Covid19.


If you are going to keep up the ***nope again*** stupidity, it would pay to be correct.

The case mortality rate for SARS1 was 14%. That is, if you caught it, you had a 14% chance of dying regardless of age or underlying health conditions. This is more than 10 x higher than COVID.

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2003/05/estimates-sars-death-rates-revised-upward

The case mortality rate for MERS was 35% regardless of age or underlying health conditions. This is more than 30 x higher than COVID.
https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/Infectious/diseases/Pages/MERS.aspx

As i said in my original post COVID is much more contagious (not mortality).

Nope again. History disagrees with you. Mortality and contagious go hand in hand. If it can’t spread it can’t kill. That’s how herd immunity works. Covid19 is very contagious and is a killer. Over 1.6M dead world wide. More than 300K in the US alone. Far worse than MERS. I think MERS- Cov had like 858 deaths in total across 27 countries.


So ironic that every post of yours starting with "Nope again" you have been wrong, and yet you keep plugging away. Thats cute.

I said case mortality.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30246-2/fulltext

I am happy to discuss issues with anyone here, particularly those with different opinions and Im always quick to acknowledge when Im wrong or there is common ground or concessions. However Im only interested in discussing those who are prepared to discuss in good faith and those that dont knowingly and intentionally twist words or resort to semantics. That is clearly not you. We wont be discussing this further Mr Nope again.

You keep changing the goal post to fit your agenda when you have been proven incorrect. The onus is on you.


By the way .......MR changing goal posts......did you answer my question? Did my post state case mortality and yet you quoted me incidence?

The ONUS is on YOU Mr changing goal posts. If you are going to make these sweeping statements (NOPE AGAIN, IM CHANGING THE GOAL POSTS) when you have so clearly been wrong, and been called on it, Im afraid there is zero chance of good faith discussion and we are done.

I don't believe the US governments preorder created that market though, I believe the market was already there and they preordered to secure the vaccine as early as possible.

The US government DOES (unquestionably) create a market with a minimum value of $1.95B. That is what the benefit of the pre-order is to Pfizer and they can allocate their R&D to at least that value. Ultimately the total size of the total market will be determined by the global demand for the vaccine and how many suppliers are in the market.

Nonsense. The market is world wide. It was who ever got there first. The market was there regardless of DOES involvement.


How big was that market on 01/07/2020?

You have shown absolutely no evidence to support your assumptions. Just wishful thinking on your part again to meet your narrative. Pfizer has publicly stated that no Warp Speed funds were used to develop the vaccine. Unless you have a document or link from Pfizer stating that it was influenced in developing the vaccine from pre-orders from Warp Speed funds you have nothing, zip, nada. That’s the end of the fairytale.

Yeah if you say so, absolutely, if only had posted previously, like on page 418, a link.....to ***PFIZER*** where **PFIZER** state ...." *Pfizer Inc. today announced the **execution of an agreement with the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services** and the Department of Defense ***to meet the U.S. government’s Operation Warp Speed program goal*** to begin delivering 300 million doses of a vaccine for COVID-19 in 2021."*

Thats the kind of evidence of an agreement with PFizer this kind of discussion needs...you are so right.....if only had posted that earlier.......like on page 418.

We are done, you have upset Formerguest now.

 

[mike]

The Pfizer vaccine did not receive one cent of US taxpayer funding.

That is not true. In July the US Govt preordered 600Million doses for US$1.92B. That is a LOT of US taxpayer cents.

Before you start splitting hairs between "grants" and pre-orders, it is irrelevant. It is all guaranteed return on investment.

Much is made of the fact that there has never been a vaccine made before for a coronavirus. This is not because it is hard or not possible to make a vaccine for coronavirus, but because previously with other coronavirus (SARS etc) the threat and therefore the demand is over before it is possible to develop a vaccine and therefore millions of $$ washed down the toilet. By pre-ordering and guaranteeing $ 1.92B, the US government made sure of the development.

https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-announce-agreement-us-government-600

Was this pre-order paid for at the time of the order or was it to be paid when and if the order was delivered? This makes a massive difference.


Why does it make a "massive" difference?


It makes zero difference, it is guaranteed return on investment of $1.92M US dollars. More than enough incentive to make it happen.


or in Pfizers own words....*" **Pfizer Inc.** (NYSE: PFE) and BioNTech SE (Nasdaq: BNTX) today announced the execution of an agreement with the ***U.S. Department of Health and Human Services and the Department of Defense to meet the U.S. government’s Operation Warp Speed program*** goal to begin delivering 300 million doses of a vaccine for COVID-19 in 2021. Under the agreement, the U.S. government will receive 100 million doses of BNT162, the COVID-19 vaccine candidate jointly developed by Pfizer and BioNTech, after Pfizer successfully manufactures and obtains approval or emergency use authorization from U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA)."*

This narrative that the Pfizer vaccine had nothing to do with the US government or the "warp speed" project is ridiculous and purely anti Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon driven.

Because the risk is all with Pfizer. They pay for the research and development. The orders only pay off if they are the successful candidate. If it had failed ***or others had beat them*** the pre-orders amount to naught.


Except that that is not true. They just need to make 100M doses and they get the $1.92M.

Why did the US not pre-order from other companies?

False. That is only true because they were successful in developing the vaccine. Had it failed they would have got zip, nada, nothing. Because they have been successful they will get orders from many countries. Warp Speed pre orders are meaningless. Many govts, including the US would order from whoever was successful.


Complete rubbish. So Pfizer are working out if they are going to spend millions/billions on R&D, like every other drug they develop. They sit down and work out if it will be worth it, will the pendemic end before its developed, what the market for it will be, whether it is worth the risk....and the US government comes along and says "you make it and you are guaranteed a minimum of $ 1.92B" and that has no impact on the development of the vaccine? Rubbish.

Lets entertain it for a second....lets say you are right and I am wrong (you arent and Im not).....if thats the case....why did the US pre-order? Why wouldnt they just wait to see who develops it first?

Nope again. Pre-orders mean nothing unless you can produce the product. In the case of vaccines there is a high risk of failure. Actual grants for research and development are meaningful. Whoever developed the vaccine for Covid19 first was always going to make a money, for orders and pre-orders from all over the world. If they don’t produce a viable vaccine all those pre-orders are worthless and they don’t make a cent and lose money.


Except that there isnt a guaranteed market.

Tell me again why a coronavirus has never been previously developed, despite the fact that there have been deadlier coronavirus' previously, but this one was developed in 9 months?

Because there has never been a global pandemic involving one before?


There has been global epidemics with much deadlier strains previously, SARS1 and even more deadlier MERS were both coronaviruses. The reason there was not a vaccine is because they were over quickly and its not worth a Pfizer spending months and millions developing one without a market.

Nope again. They never were more deadly as they didn’t spread as easily as Covid19. They had the potential to be more deadly but it never eventuated as it they weren’t as infectious as Covid19.


If you are going to keep up the ***nope again*** stupidity, it would pay to be correct.

The case mortality rate for SARS1 was 14%. That is, if you caught it, you had a 14% chance of dying regardless of age or underlying health conditions. This is more than 10 x higher than COVID.

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2003/05/estimates-sars-death-rates-revised-upward

The case mortality rate for MERS was 35% regardless of age or underlying health conditions. This is more than 30 x higher than COVID.
https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/Infectious/diseases/Pages/MERS.aspx

As i said in my original post COVID is much more contagious (not mortality).

Nope again. History disagrees with you. Mortality and contagious go hand in hand. If it can’t spread it can’t kill. That’s how herd immunity works. Covid19 is very contagious and is a killer. Over 1.6M dead world wide. More than 300K in the US alone. Far worse than MERS. I think MERS- Cov had like 858 deaths in total across 27 countries.


So ironic that every post of yours starting with "Nope again" you have been wrong, and yet you keep plugging away. Thats cute.

I said case mortality.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30246-2/fulltext

I am happy to discuss issues with anyone here, particularly those with different opinions and Im always quick to acknowledge when Im wrong or there is common ground or concessions. However Im only interested in discussing those who are prepared to discuss in good faith and those that dont knowingly and intentionally twist words or resort to semantics. That is clearly not you. We wont be discussing this further Mr Nope again.

You keep changing the goal post to fit your agenda when you have been proven incorrect. The onus is on you.


By the way .......MR changing goal posts......did you answer my question? Did my post state case mortality and yet you quoted me incidence?

The ONUS is on YOU Mr changing goal posts. If you are going to make these sweeping statements (NOPE AGAIN, IM CHANGING THE GOAL POSTS) when you have so clearly been wrong, and been called on it, Im afraid there is zero chance of good faith discussion and we are done.

I don't believe the US governments preorder created that market though, I believe the market was already there and they preordered to secure the vaccine as early as possible.

The US government DOES (unquestionably) create a market with a minimum value of $1.95B. That is what the benefit of the pre-order is to Pfizer and they can allocate their R&D to at least that value. Ultimately the total size of the total market will be determined by the global demand for the vaccine and how many suppliers are in the market.

Nonsense. The market is world wide. It was who ever got there first. The market was there regardless of DOES involvement.


How big was that market on 01/07/2020?

You have shown absolutely no evidence to support your assumptions. Just wishful thinking on your part again to meet your narrative. Pfizer has publicly stated that no Warp Speed funds were used to develop the vaccine. Unless you have a document or link from Pfizer stating that it was influenced in developing the vaccine from pre-orders from Warp Speed funds you have nothing, zip, nada. That’s the end of the fairytale.


Yeah if you say so, absolutely, if only had posted previously, like on page 418, a link.....to ***PFIZER*** where **PFIZER** state ...." *Pfizer Inc. today announced the **execution of an agreement with the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services** and the Department of Defense ***to meet the U.S. government’s Operation Warp Speed program goal*** to begin delivering 300 million doses of a vaccine for COVID-19 in 2021."*

Thats the kind of evidence of an agreement with PFizer this kind of discussion needs...you are so right.....if only had posted that earlier.......like on page 418.

We are done, you have upset Formerguest now.

No, that just states they will meet the distribution needs of Warp Speed. It does not in anyway indicate that the developing of the vaccine was as a result of Warp Speed. They are two entirely different situations. Talk about twisting facts. No Warp Speed funds were used to develop the Pfizer vaccine, period.

 

[diedpretty]

Cut the crap guys. Like watching a bunch of children argue.

More like husband and wife - and i think i know who the female is.

 

[mike]

Cut the crap guys. Like watching a bunch of children argue.

OK. I’ll stop. Nothing further from me on the topic.

 

[Tiger5150]

The Pfizer vaccine did not receive one cent of US taxpayer funding.

That is not true. In July the US Govt preordered 600Million doses for US$1.92B. That is a LOT of US taxpayer cents.

Before you start splitting hairs between "grants" and pre-orders, it is irrelevant. It is all guaranteed return on investment.

Much is made of the fact that there has never been a vaccine made before for a coronavirus. This is not because it is hard or not possible to make a vaccine for coronavirus, but because previously with other coronavirus (SARS etc) the threat and therefore the demand is over before it is possible to develop a vaccine and therefore millions of $$ washed down the toilet. By pre-ordering and guaranteeing $ 1.92B, the US government made sure of the development.

https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-announce-agreement-us-government-600

Was this pre-order paid for at the time of the order or was it to be paid when and if the order was delivered? This makes a massive difference.


Why does it make a "massive" difference?


It makes zero difference, it is guaranteed return on investment of $1.92M US dollars. More than enough incentive to make it happen.


or in Pfizers own words....*" **Pfizer Inc.** (NYSE: PFE) and BioNTech SE (Nasdaq: BNTX) today announced the execution of an agreement with the ***U.S. Department of Health and Human Services and the Department of Defense to meet the U.S. government’s Operation Warp Speed program*** goal to begin delivering 300 million doses of a vaccine for COVID-19 in 2021. Under the agreement, the U.S. government will receive 100 million doses of BNT162, the COVID-19 vaccine candidate jointly developed by Pfizer and BioNTech, after Pfizer successfully manufactures and obtains approval or emergency use authorization from U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA)."*

This narrative that the Pfizer vaccine had nothing to do with the US government or the "warp speed" project is ridiculous and purely anti Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon driven.

Because the risk is all with Pfizer. They pay for the research and development. The orders only pay off if they are the successful candidate. If it had failed ***or others had beat them*** the pre-orders amount to naught.


Except that that is not true. They just need to make 100M doses and they get the $1.92M.

Why did the US not pre-order from other companies?

False. That is only true because they were successful in developing the vaccine. Had it failed they would have got zip, nada, nothing. Because they have been successful they will get orders from many countries. Warp Speed pre orders are meaningless. Many govts, including the US would order from whoever was successful.


Complete rubbish. So Pfizer are working out if they are going to spend millions/billions on R&D, like every other drug they develop. They sit down and work out if it will be worth it, will the pendemic end before its developed, what the market for it will be, whether it is worth the risk....and the US government comes along and says "you make it and you are guaranteed a minimum of $ 1.92B" and that has no impact on the development of the vaccine? Rubbish.

Lets entertain it for a second....lets say you are right and I am wrong (you arent and Im not).....if thats the case....why did the US pre-order? Why wouldnt they just wait to see who develops it first?

Nope again. Pre-orders mean nothing unless you can produce the product. In the case of vaccines there is a high risk of failure. Actual grants for research and development are meaningful. Whoever developed the vaccine for Covid19 first was always going to make a money, for orders and pre-orders from all over the world. If they don’t produce a viable vaccine all those pre-orders are worthless and they don’t make a cent and lose money.


Except that there isnt a guaranteed market.

Tell me again why a coronavirus has never been previously developed, despite the fact that there have been deadlier coronavirus' previously, but this one was developed in 9 months?

Because there has never been a global pandemic involving one before?


There has been global epidemics with much deadlier strains previously, SARS1 and even more deadlier MERS were both coronaviruses. The reason there was not a vaccine is because they were over quickly and its not worth a Pfizer spending months and millions developing one without a market.

Nope again. They never were more deadly as they didn’t spread as easily as Covid19. They had the potential to be more deadly but it never eventuated as it they weren’t as infectious as Covid19.


If you are going to keep up the ***nope again*** stupidity, it would pay to be correct.

The case mortality rate for SARS1 was 14%. That is, if you caught it, you had a 14% chance of dying regardless of age or underlying health conditions. This is more than 10 x higher than COVID.

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2003/05/estimates-sars-death-rates-revised-upward

The case mortality rate for MERS was 35% regardless of age or underlying health conditions. This is more than 30 x higher than COVID.
https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/Infectious/diseases/Pages/MERS.aspx

As i said in my original post COVID is much more contagious (not mortality).

Nope again. History disagrees with you. Mortality and contagious go hand in hand. If it can’t spread it can’t kill. That’s how herd immunity works. Covid19 is very contagious and is a killer. Over 1.6M dead world wide. More than 300K in the US alone. Far worse than MERS. I think MERS- Cov had like 858 deaths in total across 27 countries.


So ironic that every post of yours starting with "Nope again" you have been wrong, and yet you keep plugging away. Thats cute.

I said case mortality.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30246-2/fulltext

I am happy to discuss issues with anyone here, particularly those with different opinions and Im always quick to acknowledge when Im wrong or there is common ground or concessions. However Im only interested in discussing those who are prepared to discuss in good faith and those that dont knowingly and intentionally twist words or resort to semantics. That is clearly not you. We wont be discussing this further Mr Nope again.

You keep changing the goal post to fit your agenda when you have been proven incorrect. The onus is on you.


By the way .......MR changing goal posts......did you answer my question? Did my post state case mortality and yet you quoted me incidence?

The ONUS is on YOU Mr changing goal posts. If you are going to make these sweeping statements (NOPE AGAIN, IM CHANGING THE GOAL POSTS) when you have so clearly been wrong, and been called on it, Im afraid there is zero chance of good faith discussion and we are done.

I don't believe the US governments preorder created that market though, I believe the market was already there and they preordered to secure the vaccine as early as possible.

The US government DOES (unquestionably) create a market with a minimum value of $1.95B. That is what the benefit of the pre-order is to Pfizer and they can allocate their R&D to at least that value. Ultimately the total size of the total market will be determined by the global demand for the vaccine and how many suppliers are in the market.

Nonsense. The market is world wide. It was who ever got there first. The market was there regardless of DOES involvement.


How big was that market on 01/07/2020?

Mate it was there, countries were in lockdown and there had already been half a million deaths.


100% correct.

But the answer to my question is the value of the market for vaccine on 01/07/2020 was $0.00.

Massive demand, zero supply. No Market.

Now.......what is the value of the market for the vaccine to Pfizer in January 2020 if herd immunity had worked as per the Swedish model or if control measures worked and it disappeared like SARS1? The answer to that question is also (close to) $0.00.

Now, what is the value of the market 15/07/2020 after US Govt Preorder min 100M doses. Answer is the value of the market to Pfizer is $ 1.95B.

What is the value as we stand with the vaccine rolling out and the virus rampant across the US and Europe? Probably in the $10's of Billions.

Herd immunity wasn't going to work though, it was only a few countries that even considered it. England flirted with it and it was a disaster well before July. Look at the mess Italy was in, the majority of reports that I read had the experts saying that going for herd imunity wouldn't work and the only path to herd immunity was through the development of a vaccine.

Mate I agree with you 100%. Doesnt change the facts. There was no market 01/07/2020, mid July this market was $1.95B. It OBVIOUSLY had the potential to blow out much more than that but at the middle of July that is what the value of the market was.

Again for the feint of reading. Im not saying (nor have I ever said) that US Govt are responsible for the vaccine but an investment of $18B and $1.95B to Pfizer isnt nothing and obviously had an impact.

 

[Tiger5150]

Cut the crap guys. Like watching a bunch of children argue.

Cut the crap guys. Like watching a bunch of children argue.

There is a constant throughout threads on here with multiples of other posters.

It reminds me of the guy when out that after ruining the evening for most either forces them to want to leave, else someone smacks him in the mouth so everyone else can enjoy the evening or is escorted out to the cheers of the establishment.

FG you obviously mean Mike or I and for the sake of this discussion lets assume (I know massive stretch) you mean me.

This is a discussion forum, people discuss issues. In particular this thread discusses the coronavirus outbreak and for the last few pages we have discussed the US Govt role in the development of the vaccine. I have put forward my opinion as clearly as I can, many disagreed but I trued to back it up with references etc.

You clearly disagree with it or you disagree with my method of expressing my opinion. Thats cool and not unexpected. I would think you have a few options.

Firstly you could engage and explain in the discussion where you think Im wrong and we could discuss it. This would be the adult option. This is the option Cochise took. He and I disagree regularly here and to his (and mine?) credit we are able to discuss different opinions in good faith, without lying or twisting the others words. Sometimes a consensus if found, usually not but its cool. This is the option I invited you to at least twice.

Secondly you could have sent me a DM telling me what you thought of me or the way I was expressing myself. Not my preferred but obviously a valid response.

The third option, if neither of the above applied would be to butt out and stick to your knitting.

Seems that you chose a different option to just repeatedly occasionally inject with snide offensive comments without the actual conviction to name names, point out specific posts or facts or anything.....just cheap shots.

IMO your choice is the lowest integrity of the four options but each to their own/

 

[Harvey]

The Pfizer vaccine did not receive one cent of US taxpayer funding.

That is not true. In July the US Govt preordered 600Million doses for US$1.92B. That is a LOT of US taxpayer cents.

Before you start splitting hairs between "grants" and pre-orders, it is irrelevant. It is all guaranteed return on investment.

Much is made of the fact that there has never been a vaccine made before for a coronavirus. This is not because it is hard or not possible to make a vaccine for coronavirus, but because previously with other coronavirus (SARS etc) the threat and therefore the demand is over before it is possible to develop a vaccine and therefore millions of $$ washed down the toilet. By pre-ordering and guaranteeing $ 1.92B, the US government made sure of the development.

https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-announce-agreement-us-government-600

Was this pre-order paid for at the time of the order or was it to be paid when and if the order was delivered? This makes a massive difference.


Why does it make a "massive" difference?


It makes zero difference, it is guaranteed return on investment of $1.92M US dollars. More than enough incentive to make it happen.


or in Pfizers own words....*" **Pfizer Inc.** (NYSE: PFE) and BioNTech SE (Nasdaq: BNTX) today announced the execution of an agreement with the ***U.S. Department of Health and Human Services and the Department of Defense to meet the U.S. government’s Operation Warp Speed program*** goal to begin delivering 300 million doses of a vaccine for COVID-19 in 2021. Under the agreement, the U.S. government will receive 100 million doses of BNT162, the COVID-19 vaccine candidate jointly developed by Pfizer and BioNTech, after Pfizer successfully manufactures and obtains approval or emergency use authorization from U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA)."*

This narrative that the Pfizer vaccine had nothing to do with the US government or the "warp speed" project is ridiculous and purely anti Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon driven.

Because the risk is all with Pfizer. They pay for the research and development. The orders only pay off if they are the successful candidate. If it had failed ***or others had beat them*** the pre-orders amount to naught.


Except that that is not true. They just need to make 100M doses and they get the $1.92M.

Why did the US not pre-order from other companies?

False. That is only true because they were successful in developing the vaccine. Had it failed they would have got zip, nada, nothing. Because they have been successful they will get orders from many countries. Warp Speed pre orders are meaningless. Many govts, including the US would order from whoever was successful.


Complete rubbish. So Pfizer are working out if they are going to spend millions/billions on R&D, like every other drug they develop. They sit down and work out if it will be worth it, will the pendemic end before its developed, what the market for it will be, whether it is worth the risk....and the US government comes along and says "you make it and you are guaranteed a minimum of $ 1.92B" and that has no impact on the development of the vaccine? Rubbish.

Lets entertain it for a second....lets say you are right and I am wrong (you arent and Im not).....if thats the case....why did the US pre-order? Why wouldnt they just wait to see who develops it first?

Nope again. Pre-orders mean nothing unless you can produce the product. In the case of vaccines there is a high risk of failure. Actual grants for research and development are meaningful. Whoever developed the vaccine for Covid19 first was always going to make a money, for orders and pre-orders from all over the world. If they don’t produce a viable vaccine all those pre-orders are worthless and they don’t make a cent and lose money.


Except that there isnt a guaranteed market.

Tell me again why a coronavirus has never been previously developed, despite the fact that there have been deadlier coronavirus' previously, but this one was developed in 9 months?

Because there has never been a global pandemic involving one before?


There has been global epidemics with much deadlier strains previously, SARS1 and even more deadlier MERS were both coronaviruses. The reason there was not a vaccine is because they were over quickly and its not worth a Pfizer spending months and millions developing one without a market.

They were deadlier but harder to transmit, which lead to them dying out. This one is highly contagious which is a bigger problem.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

The selfishness of those two older Australians at Avalon is a disgrace. imagine failing to isolate after being tested! A two further Covid cases on the Northern Beaches overnight has Sydney on the cusp of a larger outbreak.

 

[mike]

The selfishness of those two older Australians at Avalon is a disgrace. imagine failing to isolate after being tested! A two further Covid cases on the Northern Beaches overnight has Sydney on the cusp of a larger outbreak.

Yep, the attitude is very concerning.

 

[happy_tiger]

The selfishness of those two older Australians at Avalon is a disgrace. imagine failing to isolate after being tested! A two further Covid cases on the Northern Beaches overnight has Sydney on the cusp of a larger outbreak.

Yep, the attitude is very concerning.

Are the latest cases linked to the van driver .....

 

[mike]

The selfishness of those two older Australians at Avalon is a disgrace. imagine failing to isolate after being tested! A two further Covid cases on the Northern Beaches overnight has Sydney on the cusp of a larger outbreak.

Yep, the attitude is very concerning.

Are the latest cases linked to the van driver .....

They are doing the genome now to see if that is the case. Expected results today or early tomorrow.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

The selfishness of those two older Australians at Avalon is a disgrace. imagine failing to isolate after being tested! A two further Covid cases on the Northern Beaches overnight has Sydney on the cusp of a larger outbreak.

Yep, the attitude is very concerning.

Are the latest cases linked to the van driver .....

If they are not. Christmas may be a little restricted.

 

[dazza65]

The selfishness of those two older Australians at Avalon is a disgrace. imagine failing to isolate after being tested! A two further Covid cases on the Northern Beaches overnight has Sydney on the cusp of a larger outbreak.

Yep, the attitude is very concerning.

I think it has gotten to a point where people like this should be charged under Section 10 of the Public Health Act - endangering the health of the public
this was originally used for idiots who were intentionally spitting or coughing on people but I believe this level of selfishness also enters the realm of endangering the public.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

i am surprised a couple that age were risking their health exposing themselves to a wide variety of venues. We all must be circumspect in our dealings and realise life as we know it has changed. I agree a custodial sentence should be considered.

 

[trentrunciman]

Far out I was at Avalon on Saturday, place was packed!!!

Couldn't find parking at the evening markets by the beach. hundredds of people there

 

[pawsandclaws1]

One of the two diagnosed today works at the Pacific Pines Retirement facility. We've been too lax and some treat Covid with little respect.

 

[jadtiger]

Far out I was at Avalon on Saturday, place was packed!!!

Couldn't find parking at the evening markets by the beach. hundredds of people there

I was there Tuesday its a beautiful suburb.

 

[jadtiger]

One of the two diagnosed today works at the Pacific Pines Retirement facility. We've been too lax and some treat Covid with little respect.

Where is that on Sydneys northern beaches?It is one i dont know

 

[pawsandclaws1]

One of the two diagnosed today works at the Pacific Pines Retirement facility. We've been too lax and some treat Covid with little respect.



Where is that on Sydneys northern beaches?It is one i dont know

Yes.