Coronavirus Outbreak

[CocaCola]

Reading this thread makes me think that Occam's razor has been thrown out or otherwise modified to: "forget the simplest explanation, it's the freaking lizard people taking over!"

Simplest explanation to me is that it was a virus being modified from a lab.
Question is, was it released deliberately..

And how nice to belittle people with comments such as 'lizard people' taking over.
Paint everyone with the same brush. I must be a Alex Jones or David Icke supper right because I go against mainstream views on a subject?

 

[Nelson]

Reading this thread makes me think that Occam's razor has been thrown out or otherwise modified to: "forget the simplest explanation, it's the freaking lizard people taking over!"

Simplest explanation to me is that it was a virus being modified from a lab.
Question is, was it released deliberately..

And how nice to belittle people with comments such as 'lizard people' taking over.
Paint everyone with the same brush. I must be a Alex Jones or David Icke supper right because I go against mainstream views on a subject?

I didn't quote you and I don't even know who Alex Jones or David Icke are.

The simplest explanation to me is not that it was modified in a lab - it's a virus, they happen in nature. Why didn't this one?

Maybe something did happen in a lab, it's not beyond the realms of possibility I accept, but why would you think that someone would deliberately release it? Was it some rogue nihilist in your scenario? Or a state actor? Or Big Pharma? I don't get it and it's an extremely complicated scenario both as to the motivation of any such actor/s and how they would possibly avoid exposure of what had been done. Secrets are not so easy to keep.

I also don't understand what this whole all for "money" and "control" thing is. What control are governments getting? Why do they want it? What's the endgame? These nebulous, sinister motives that get floated make no sense to me. What do they get out of making people wear masks? Why can it not just be accepted that they are trying to deal with a health issue rather than there being some sinister ulterior purpose, particularly when there are health experts giving that advice? Are the health experts also part of some shady cabal?

As to your indignation at the lizard people comment, I look forward to you leaping in the next time the "mainstream" as you call it are labelled "sheeple".

 

[jadtiger]

Conspiracy theories are like religion,everybody else's views are completely wrong because my conspiracy theory is fact.No matter what you say you will never change somebody's point of view if they believe they are correct,logic will not change a closed mind and most peoples minds are closed .

 

[Harvey]

Who would have thought

Measuring from the start of the year to each state’s point of maximum lockdown—which range from April 5 to April 18—it turns out that lockdowns correlated with a greater spread of the virus. States with longer, stricter lockdowns also had larger Covid outbreaks. The five places with the harshest lockdowns—the District of Columbia, New York, Michigan, New Jersey and Massachusetts—had the heaviest caseloads

How about the northern beaches? Why don't you stick to what has occurred locally rather than the US where the majority of the population are blinded into believing the virus is a hoax and doesn't exist.

From someone on the Northern Beaches, there may have been a small number of sketchy PCR positives but people weren’t sick up here

How do you know that?

I live here and I talk to lots of people including a few doctors


I live on the northern sydney beaches and have done for 40 years,the difference in attitude and general behaviour was very different during the "avalon episode" than at any time during the previous 10 months.Stop lying

More abuse, unnecessary and inaccurate as ever
And we don’t ever call it the northern sydney beaches
The difference in attitude and general behaviour was the result of the oppressive lockdowns which ruined Xmas for many in the beaches, not because people were sick


I called it the Sydney northern beaches for the obvious reason of refuting what lies you have spread and are still spreading about what happened here during the "Avalon hot spot" period and the lockdown.I know a few doctors as well and not one of them would agree with you.


Just because someone has a different opinion to you doesn’t make their comments lies. I am respectful of all views here even if I disagree. It would be nice to think I might be given the same courtesy

In my view the pain experienced by the lockdown at Xmas was excessive and a massive over reaction to a series of positive tests from largely asymptomatic
people

What did it produce? A massive lift in testing. Perhaps that was the goal given positives are in many ways a function of the numbers tested with 0.11% of tests producing positives in NSW (I’ll include a link to verify this to avoid further false allegations)

https://covidlive.com.au/nsw

If my opinion was the sky is green, I am either lying, delusional or suffering from some form of vision impairment. Either way my opinion is not really valuable except to a medical professional trying to treat me.

Lockdowns have been extremely successful in Australia. When you look at the spread of the virus it has generally been through close contact in enclosed spaces. Family members within a household, visitors to an infected house, restaurants, pubs clubs. We have been lucky enough in Australia that the number of cases have been low enough that we can identify venues that infected people have been to and advise others there at the same time to isolate.

The Northern Beaches, Victoria, Crossroads hotel and South Australian outbreaks have shown how quickly the virus can spread once it gets into the community.

Overseas there are many issues that have stopped lockdowns working. First the virus is already so widespread that you would need a hard lockdown of several cycles (at least 6 weeks) to bring it under control. Most of the lockdowns have been shorter than that and allow for people to leave their houses for a number of reasons.

You also have asymptotic people that go out and mingle at the first opportunity. If an overseas country or state could eliminate the virus, it would then need prevent outsiders entering to reintroduce the virus.

 

[Harvey]

Experts who have taken the time to look at data from lockdowns have discovered that they don’t appear to stop the spread of COVID-19. In fact, when experts compared the data, it appears that lockdowns made no difference at all.

Can you explain why you think restricting the movement of people, would NOT correspondingly restrict the spread of covid?

If John Smith is infected in Avalon, and he was planning to travel to the CBD but it is not allowed to do so, why would that restriction NOT make a difference?

If John Smith was asymptomatic it wouldn’t make a difference as there is no transmission from asymptomatic people

People with symptoms should stay home just like if you’ve got the flu to avoid infecting others, that’s the way we’ve done it for years

No need in my view to lockdown the almost 300,000 living here

Reliable source for the nonsense you are sprouting?

 

[Harvey]

Reading this thread makes me think that Occam's razor has been thrown out or otherwise modified to: "forget the simplest explanation, it's the freaking lizard people taking over!"

Simplest explanation to me is that it was a virus being modified from a lab.
Question is, was it released deliberately..

And how nice to belittle people with comments such as 'lizard people' taking over.
Paint everyone with the same brush. I must be a Alex Jones or David Icke supper right because I go against mainstream views on a subject?

I didn't quote you and I don't even know who Alex Jones or David Icke are.

The simplest explanation to me is not that it was modified in a lab - it's a virus, they happen in nature. Why didn't this one?

Maybe something did happen in a lab, it's not beyond the realms of possibility I accept, but why would you think that someone would deliberately release it? Was it some rogue nihilist in your scenario? Or a state actor? Or Big Pharma? I don't get it and it's an extremely complicated scenario both as to the motivation of any such actor/s and how they would possibly avoid exposure of what had been done. Secrets are not so easy to keep.

I also don't understand what this whole all for "money" and "control" thing is. What control are governments getting? Why do they want it? What's the endgame? These nebulous, sinister motives that get floated make no sense to me. What do they get out of making people wear masks? Why can it not just be accepted that they are trying to deal with a health issue rather than there being some sinister ulterior purpose, particularly when there are health experts giving that advice? Are the health experts also part of some shady cabal?

As to your indignation at the lizard people comment, I look forward to you leaping in the next time the "mainstream" as you call it are labelled "sheeple".

You just don’t get it. It’s Bill Gates, the Illuminati, the reptilians, the Rothschild’s and the network of pizza shop paedophiles all conspiring against you to make you a slave to the system.

 

[Harvey]

Reading this thread makes me think that Occam's razor has been thrown out or otherwise modified to: "forget the simplest explanation, it's the freaking lizard people taking over!"

Simplest explanation to me is that it was a virus being modified from a lab.
Question is, was it released deliberately..

And how nice to belittle people with comments such as 'lizard people' taking over.
Paint everyone with the same brush. I must be a Alex Jones or David Icke supper right because I go against mainstream views on a subject?

The fact that you are able to link the term lizard people back to the proponents of said trash does suggest that you spend a bit of time trawling the internet for such garbage.

A 83 year old pensioner reporting that George Bush turned into a lizard before her eyes does not carry the same weight as a scientific paper that has been peer reviewed multiple times. That is unless there is a conspiracy that a vast number of people (except yourself and others that agree with you) are involved in.

Remember Abraham Lincoln’a quote from 1862. If you read it on the internet it must be true.

 

[TheDaBoss]

Here is a question

If you guys noticed that your neighbour qas going 1 or 2 people over the limit would u report them to the police

Personally i couldn't care less....

 

[jadtiger]

Apparently the UK variant of covid could be 30% more deadly than the original according to early research in Britain(BBC website this morning).Terrible news for everyone as it now appears to be not only 30%-70% more contagious but 30% more deadly.No doubt the usual suspects will insist it is untrue.

 

[earl]

There's that magic 6% number again. Has anyone produced a source for that figure?

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Here are the stats. 2 million deaths with a mortality rate at about 2%. Those figures are probably under stated.

 

[earl]

Reading this thread makes me think that Occam's razor has been thrown out or otherwise modified to: "forget the simplest explanation, it's the freaking lizard people taking over!"

Simplest explanation to me is that it was a virus being modified from a lab.
Question is, was it released deliberately..

And how nice to belittle people with comments such as 'lizard people' taking over.
Paint everyone with the same brush. I must be a Alex Jones or David Icke supper right because I go against mainstream views on a subject?

Do you have any proof of this ? Is this the first pandemic or epidemic mankind has suffered from ? Were these viruses always produced via labs ?

If you don't have any proof have you thought about getting mental health counseling ? If you continue to believe stuff without proof and with proof against what you are stating do you believe that means there is some mental health issue at play ?

 

[earl]

If my opinion was the sky is green, I am either lying, delusional or suffering from some form of vision impairment. Either way my opinion is not really valuable except to a medical professional trying to treat me.

This is the point. To me it's a mental health issue. There are no facts to these crazy theories. There is so much evidence against these crazy theories.

The obvious conclusion is that these people have mental health problems.

 

[earl]

Conspiracy theories are like religion,everybody else's views are completely wrong because my conspiracy theory is fact.No matter what you say you will never change somebody's point of view if they believe they are correct,logic will not change a closed mind and most peoples minds are closed .

The thing that amazes me is these guys tell other people that they are just thinking differently. They state it's about being controlled.

Have you noticed they never provide good quality data or facts ? They sprout some loony tune theory as if it's fact and then state that science is dodgy.

Personally I think a lot of science isn't up to standard but that is the process of scientific study. So you produce a study in a structured way and have it peer reviewed. Sometimes this process fails in that dodgy science is produced. The point is though the people critiquing this approach want significantly less rigor.

I'm stating science has it's issues and ideally we can improve on that. These loonies with mental health issues are stating the science is dodgy and lets lower the standards so that crazy Internet theories are now considered fact.

 

[JD Tiger]

Conspiracy theories are like religion,everybody else's views are completely wrong because my conspiracy theory is fact.No matter what you say you will never change somebody's point of view if they believe they are correct,logic will not change a closed mind and most peoples minds are closed .

The thing that amazes me is these guys tell other people that they are just thinking differently. They state it's about being controlled.

Have you noticed they never provide good quality data or facts ? They sprout some loony tune theory as if it's fact and then state that science is dodgy.

Personally I think a lot of science isn't up to standard but that is the process of scientific study. So you produce a study in a structured way and have it peer reviewed. Sometimes this process fails in that dodgy science is produced. The point is though the people critiquing this approach want significantly less rigor.

I'm stating science has it's issues and ideally we can improve on that. These loonies with mental health issues are stating the science is dodgy and lets lower the standards so that crazy Internet theories are now considered fact.

I said this previously, but I will try one last time. Someone doesn't have a mental illness just because you disagree with them. That isn't how it works. You have your thoughts and opinions, good on you, but that's all they are. Opinions, not facts. Even if the other person is ultimately wrong (if such a thing could be proven), then they are wrong, mistaken, not mentally ill.

People don't all think the same, they don't all reason the same, they don't see two things and take the same thing away from it. People apply logic subjectively, it's not a maths problem, there's not one absolute right answer.

It comes across as very closed-minded. I also read some things on here which I consider as rubbish, but that's merely but my opinion, that doesn't make it absolute. I obviously have a different opinion than in you in what constitutes mental illness (as I believe you will find does most people who's worked or had experiences in/with mental illness), that doesn't mean I think you have a mental illness.

 

[earl]

Conspiracy theories are like religion,everybody else's views are completely wrong because my conspiracy theory is fact.No matter what you say you will never change somebody's point of view if they believe they are correct,logic will not change a closed mind and most peoples minds are closed .

The thing that amazes me is these guys tell other people that they are just thinking differently. They state it's about being controlled.

Have you noticed they never provide good quality data or facts ? They sprout some loony tune theory as if it's fact and then state that science is dodgy.

Personally I think a lot of science isn't up to standard but that is the process of scientific study. So you produce a study in a structured way and have it peer reviewed. Sometimes this process fails in that dodgy science is produced. The point is though the people critiquing this approach want significantly less rigor.

I'm stating science has it's issues and ideally we can improve on that. These loonies with mental health issues are stating the science is dodgy and lets lower the standards so that crazy Internet theories are now considered fact.

I said this previously, but I will try one last time. Someone doesn't have a mental illness just because you disagree with them. That isn't how it works. You have your thoughts and opinions, good on you, but that's all they are. Opinions, not facts. Even if the other person is ultimately wrong (if such a thing could be proven), then they are wrong, mistaken, not mentally ill.

People don't all think the same, they don't all reason the same, they don't see two things and take the same thing away from it. People apply logic subjectively, it's not a maths problem, there's not one absolute right answer.

It comes across as very closed-minded. I also read some things on here which I consider as rubbish, but that's merely but my opinion, that doesn't make it absolute. I obviously have a different opinion than in you in what constitutes mental illness (as I believe you will find does most people who's worked or had experiences in/with mental illness), that doesn't mean I think you have a mental illness.

There is a difference between an opinion that is something that is opinion based and an opinion that is refuted by evidence.

I'm cool with different opinions. You can believe that our forward pack will smash another forward pack or our backs are crap or whatever. That is called an opinion.

It isn't an opinion that the mortality rate from COVID is .01% or that lockdowns don't work or that COVID is false.

Can you tell the difference between and opinion and facts because there is a difference.

Someone who continually denies reality has mental health issues.

I'm not close minded at all. I'm completely open minded. I'm happy to discuss opinions but you have to do that based on facts.

I'll try and give an example. If you state that you believe that COVID isn't that bad compared to previous pandemics as the mortality rate is lower than for instance the spanish flu that you can debate the facts. That isn't what is happening here.

What is happening here is a complete refutation of facts and alternative facts being produced which are patent lies.

 

[CocaCola]

Reading this thread makes me think that Occam's razor has been thrown out or otherwise modified to: "forget the simplest explanation, it's the freaking lizard people taking over!"

Simplest explanation to me is that it was a virus being modified from a lab.
Question is, was it released deliberately..

And how nice to belittle people with comments such as 'lizard people' taking over.
Paint everyone with the same brush. I must be a Alex Jones or David Icke supper right because I go against mainstream views on a subject?

Do you have any proof of this ? Is this the first pandemic or epidemic mankind has suffered from ? Were these viruses always produced via labs ?

If you don't have any proof have you thought about getting mental health counseling ? If you continue to believe stuff without proof and with proof against what you are stating do you believe that means there is some mental health issue at play ?

Another demeaning statement regarding mental health.

So disguised swearing isn't allowed, but belittle others with disdainful statements like that is somewhat fine.

Viruses are studied, modified & experimented with all the time in virology labs. How hard is it to comprehend that?

 

[earl]

Reading this thread makes me think that Occam's razor has been thrown out or otherwise modified to: "forget the simplest explanation, it's the freaking lizard people taking over!"

Simplest explanation to me is that it was a virus being modified from a lab.
Question is, was it released deliberately..

And how nice to belittle people with comments such as 'lizard people' taking over.
Paint everyone with the same brush. I must be a Alex Jones or David Icke supper right because I go against mainstream views on a subject?

Do you have any proof of this ? Is this the first pandemic or epidemic mankind has suffered from ? Were these viruses always produced via labs ?

If you don't have any proof have you thought about getting mental health counseling ? If you continue to believe stuff without proof and with proof against what you are stating do you believe that means there is some mental health issue at play ?

Another demeaning statement regarding mental health.

So disguised swearing isn't allowed, but belittle others with disdainful statements like that is somewhat fine.

Viruses are studied, modified & experimented with all the time in virology labs. How hard is it to comprehend that?

So you don't have any proof to back up your loony tunes theory ? Geez that is a surprise.

You probably have a point. It's probably wrong to put people that have mental health illnesses in the same category as people like yourself. You have real problems with accepting reality but that it isn't fair to state that people who suffer from depression for instance are as delusional as what you are.

Maybe I should change my approach. You create and believe in crazy theories because you have an inability to think rationally and logically.

Still - answer the question. Where is your proof ?

 

[Tiger5150]

Reading this thread makes me think that Occam's razor has been thrown out or otherwise modified to: "forget the simplest explanation, it's the freaking lizard people taking over!"

Simplest explanation to me is that it was a virus being modified from a lab.
Question is, was it released deliberately..

And how nice to belittle people with comments such as 'lizard people' taking over.
Paint everyone with the same brush. I must be a Alex Jones or David Icke supper right because I go against mainstream views on a subject?

I didn't quote you and I don't even know who Alex Jones or David Icke are.

The simplest explanation to me is not that it was modified in a lab - it's a virus, they happen in nature. Why didn't this one?

Because in short it contains genetic material from both bats and pangolins which do not share habitat and that would take a long to time to mutate to COVID19 and would have been seen in the wild prior to reaching this end state. Also because there is a Biosecurity Level 4 Pathology Lab operating in Wuhan that has released findings on studies of corona virus in bats and pangolins and that is know to have been carrying out "gain of function" tests on corona virus in which the virus is intentionally mutated in order to study how it works and reacts in order to test how to deal with it.

As a result, the simplest explanation is actually the lab hypothesis and it doesnt take any conspiracy to make it the most likely source.

https://youtu.be/q5SRrsr-Iug

https://youtu.be/61l6sZqA_Ac

 

[Tiger5150]

If my opinion was the sky is green, I am either lying, delusional or suffering from some form of vision impairment. Either way my opinion is not really valuable except to a medical professional trying to treat me.

This is the point. To me it's a mental health issue. ***There are no facts to these crazy theories.*** ***There is so much evidence against these crazy theories.***

The obvious conclusion is that these people have mental health problems.

Whoah hang on. Mental health problems? In your opinion.

There are many facts to support the theory that the virus escaped or was released from the Biosecurity Level 4 Lab in Wuhan that was specifically studying (and have publicly released papers on ) gain of function tests on coronavirus in bats and pangolins (COVID has genetic material of both). I am aware of no facts that disprove this theory and would be grateful for you to point me in the right direction of these facts.

It is the simplest, most logical, most fact based and least conspiratorial theory that the virus came from the Level 4 lab in Wuhan. It is actually more far fetched that it came from the "wet market".

I've provided a heap of information in my previous post, but would be interested to see/hear your facts that prove this not to be the case and to call my mental health into question.

 

[CocaCola]

Reading this thread makes me think that Occam's razor has been thrown out or otherwise modified to: "forget the simplest explanation, it's the freaking lizard people taking over!"

Simplest explanation to me is that it was a virus being modified from a lab.
Question is, was it released deliberately..

And how nice to belittle people with comments such as 'lizard people' taking over.
Paint everyone with the same brush. I must be a Alex Jones or David Icke supper right because I go against mainstream views on a subject?

I didn't quote you and I don't even know who Alex Jones or David Icke are.

The simplest explanation to me is not that it was modified in a lab - it's a virus, they happen in nature. Why didn't this one?

Maybe something did happen in a lab, it's not beyond the realms of possibility I accept, but why would you think that someone would deliberately release it? Was it some rogue nihilist in your scenario? Or a state actor? Or Big Pharma? I don't get it and it's an extremely complicated scenario both as to the motivation of any such actor/s and how they would possibly avoid exposure of what had been done. Secrets are not so easy to keep.

I also don't understand what this whole all for "money" and "control" thing is. What control are governments getting? Why do they want it? What's the endgame? These nebulous, sinister motives that get floated make no sense to me. What do they get out of making people wear masks? Why can it not just be accepted that they are trying to deal with a health issue rather than there being some sinister ulterior purpose, particularly when there are health experts giving that advice? Are the health experts also part of some shady cabal?

As to your indignation at the lizard people comment, I look forward to you leaping in the next time the "mainstream" as you call it are labelled "sheeple".

History repeats itself.. Empires have always existed. Egyptian, Babylonian, Persian, Roman, Byzantine, Umayyid/Abbasid, Holy Roman, Ottoman, Spanish, Russian, British & US to name a bunch.

Ruling class families have always wanted sovereignty over others, The control of resources, money supply, dictate the belief system of their people (religion or other) in some instances.

Some people say Religion is a control mechanism.. I can agree with that, as it dictates a persons lifestyle.

So why is it hard to believe that Governments can't also be used for the same thing?