Coronavirus Outbreak

[CocaCola]

Reading this thread makes me think that Occam's razor has been thrown out or otherwise modified to: "forget the simplest explanation, it's the freaking lizard people taking over!"

Simplest explanation to me is that it was a virus being modified from a lab.
Question is, was it released deliberately..

And how nice to belittle people with comments such as 'lizard people' taking over.
Paint everyone with the same brush. I must be a Alex Jones or David Icke supper right because I go against mainstream views on a subject?

Do you have any proof of this ? Is this the first pandemic or epidemic mankind has suffered from ? Were these viruses always produced via labs ?

If you don't have any proof have you thought about getting mental health counseling ? If you continue to believe stuff without proof and with proof against what you are stating do you believe that means there is some mental health issue at play ?

Another demeaning statement regarding mental health.

So disguised swearing isn't allowed, but belittle others with disdainful statements like that is somewhat fine.

Viruses are studied, modified & experimented with all the time in virology labs. How hard is it to comprehend that?

So you don't have any proof to back up your loony tunes theory ? Geez that is a surprise.

You probably have a point. It's probably wrong to put people that have mental health illnesses in the same category as people like yourself. You have real problems with accepting reality but that it isn't fair to state that people who suffer from depression for instance are as delusional as what you are.

Maybe I should change my approach. You create and believe in crazy theories because you have an inability to think rationally and logically.

Still - answer the question. Where is your proof ?

Someone mentioned Occam's razor.
So I provided my conclusion of the simplest explanation.

So tell me, what type of things do they deal with in Virology labs?
Is it illogical to think a virus can be leaked from a lab?

That illogical that it must be a "loony tunes theory"..
Yeah ok mate..

Maybe your breathing in too much carbon dioxide with that mask.

 

[happy_tiger]

I guess my question would to the points raised is this

So some viruses form by themselves or are they all leaks

Bird Flu Swine Flu .....

 

[cochise]

If my opinion was the sky is green, I am either lying, delusional or suffering from some form of vision impairment. Either way my opinion is not really valuable except to a medical professional trying to treat me.

This is the point. To me it's a mental health issue. ***There are no facts to these crazy theories.*** ***There is so much evidence against these crazy theories.***

The obvious conclusion is that these people have mental health problems.


Whoah hang on. Mental health problems? In your opinion.

There are many facts to support the theory that the virus escaped or was released from the Biosecurity Level 4 Lab in Wuhan that was specifically studying (and have publicly released papers on ) gain of function tests on coronavirus in bats and pangolins (COVID has genetic material of both). I am aware of no facts that disprove this theory and would be grateful for you to point me in the right direction of these facts.

It is the simplest, most logical, most fact based and least conspiratorial theory that the virus came from the Level 4 lab in Wuhan. It is actually more far fetched that it came from the "wet market".

I've provided a heap of information in my previous post, but would be interested to see/hear your facts that prove this not to be the case and to call my mental health into question.

Isn't that why an investigation team has entered China, to determine what exactly happened?

 

[Tiger5150]

I guess my question would to the points raised is this

So some viruses form by themselves or are they all leaks

Bird Flu Swine Flu .....

If you are genuinely interested Happy, go and look at the videos I recently posted in this thread. They are by an evolutionary biologist that specialises in bats and he gives a pretty good explanation of it all.

If you cant be bothered, the tldr version is this.

All viruses are merely small segments of genetic material (some DNA some RNA) covered in lipids (fat) with hooks that enable them to attach to certain types of cells (vary between different viruses). Every time a virus cell hooks onto a target cell, it basically injects its RNA/DNA into the target cell and uses the target cells as an incubator in which it replicates itself many times over with numerous "new" virus cells bursting out of the target cell.

Every time the virus does this and replicates it runs the risk of changing (mutating) very slightly either from replication errors or by interaction with the RNA/DNA of the target cell. This is partly how the genomic sequencing of COVID works.

COVID19 contains genetic material from bats and pangolins and these two animals do not share habitat. This means that at some stage a pangolin has to have caught it from a bat or vice versa and probably a number of times. The variation would take a lot of time to get to the stage that it is and it is unlikely that it would happen naturally in the wild without having been discovered, particularly as it is a zoonotic virus that effects humans.

Still tldr? A virus can exist in nature but varies/mutates slightly as it replicates. Would take a long time of bats catching it from pangolins and back and forth to get to COVID19. Or alternatively it could have been developed (for good benign scientific/medical reasons) in a lab that exists in Wuhan, that is a Biosecurity Level 4 facility that by their own published information specialises in coronavirus virus research into gain of function (intentionally making it worse) virus from bats and pangolins.

 

[Tiger5150]

If my opinion was the sky is green, I am either lying, delusional or suffering from some form of vision impairment. Either way my opinion is not really valuable except to a medical professional trying to treat me.

This is the point. To me it's a mental health issue. ***There are no facts to these crazy theories.*** ***There is so much evidence against these crazy theories.***

The obvious conclusion is that these people have mental health problems.


Whoah hang on. Mental health problems? In your opinion.

There are many facts to support the theory that the virus escaped or was released from the Biosecurity Level 4 Lab in Wuhan that was specifically studying (and have publicly released papers on ) gain of function tests on coronavirus in bats and pangolins (COVID has genetic material of both). I am aware of no facts that disprove this theory and would be grateful for you to point me in the right direction of these facts.

It is the simplest, most logical, most fact based and least conspiratorial theory that the virus came from the Level 4 lab in Wuhan. It is actually more far fetched that it came from the "wet market".

I've provided a heap of information in my previous post, but would be interested to see/hear your facts that prove this not to be the case and to call my mental health into question.

Isn't that why an investigation team has entered China, to determine what exactly happened?

You would hope so and possibly it is. My post however was in response to Earls assertions that to consider a hypothesis that the virus came from the Wuhan lab was conspiratorial and indicative of mental health issues. It is neither and is in fact the least conspiratorial and the theory with the path of least resistance is the lab escape theory and there is plenty of real actual facts to support this.

With regards to the investigation team, is it from WHO? If so I'm afraid Im not confident that their findings would be widely embraced as impartial and definitive given their behavior and track record at the start of the pandemic.

 

[cochise]

If my opinion was the sky is green, I am either lying, delusional or suffering from some form of vision impairment. Either way my opinion is not really valuable except to a medical professional trying to treat me.

This is the point. To me it's a mental health issue. ***There are no facts to these crazy theories.*** ***There is so much evidence against these crazy theories.***

The obvious conclusion is that these people have mental health problems.


Whoah hang on. Mental health problems? In your opinion.

There are many facts to support the theory that the virus escaped or was released from the Biosecurity Level 4 Lab in Wuhan that was specifically studying (and have publicly released papers on ) gain of function tests on coronavirus in bats and pangolins (COVID has genetic material of both). I am aware of no facts that disprove this theory and would be grateful for you to point me in the right direction of these facts.

It is the simplest, most logical, most fact based and least conspiratorial theory that the virus came from the Level 4 lab in Wuhan. It is actually more far fetched that it came from the "wet market".

I've provided a heap of information in my previous post, but would be interested to see/hear your facts that prove this not to be the case and to call my mental health into question.

Isn't that why an investigation team has entered China, to determine what exactly happened?


You would hope so and possibly it is. My post however was in response to Earls assertions that to consider a hypothesis that the virus came from the Wuhan lab was conspiratorial and indicative of mental health issues. It is neither and is in fact the least conspiratorial and the theory with the path of least resistance is the lab escape theory and there is plenty of real actual facts to support this.

With regards to the investigation team, is it from WHO? If so I'm afraid Im not confident that their findings would be widely embraced as impartial and definitive given their behavior and track record at the start of the pandemic.

Yes the team is from the WHO, they entered China on the 14th.

 

[Tiger5150]

If my opinion was the sky is green, I am either lying, delusional or suffering from some form of vision impairment. Either way my opinion is not really valuable except to a medical professional trying to treat me.

This is the point. To me it's a mental health issue. ***There are no facts to these crazy theories.*** ***There is so much evidence against these crazy theories.***

The obvious conclusion is that these people have mental health problems.


Whoah hang on. Mental health problems? In your opinion.

There are many facts to support the theory that the virus escaped or was released from the Biosecurity Level 4 Lab in Wuhan that was specifically studying (and have publicly released papers on ) gain of function tests on coronavirus in bats and pangolins (COVID has genetic material of both). I am aware of no facts that disprove this theory and would be grateful for you to point me in the right direction of these facts.

It is the simplest, most logical, most fact based and least conspiratorial theory that the virus came from the Level 4 lab in Wuhan. It is actually more far fetched that it came from the "wet market".

I've provided a heap of information in my previous post, but would be interested to see/hear your facts that prove this not to be the case and to call my mental health into question.

Isn't that why an investigation team has entered China, to determine what exactly happened?


You would hope so and possibly it is. My post however was in response to Earls assertions that to consider a hypothesis that the virus came from the Wuhan lab was conspiratorial and indicative of mental health issues. It is neither and is in fact the least conspiratorial and the theory with the path of least resistance is the lab escape theory and there is plenty of real actual facts to support this.

With regards to the investigation team, is it from WHO? If so I'm afraid Im not confident that their findings would be widely embraced as impartial and definitive given their behavior and track record at the start of the pandemic.

Yes the team is from the WHO, they entered China on the 14th.

Good luck to them, Im sure they are being provided unfettered, easy, completely uncensored access to investigate an incident that happened 12 months ago without any political or financial pressure.

 

[Aesopian]

If my opinion was the sky is green, I am either lying, delusional or suffering from some form of vision impairment. Either way my opinion is not really valuable except to a medical professional trying to treat me.

This is the point. To me it's a mental health issue. ***There are no facts to these crazy theories.*** ***There is so much evidence against these crazy theories.***

The obvious conclusion is that these people have mental health problems.


Whoah hang on. Mental health problems? In your opinion.

There are many facts to support the theory that the virus escaped or was released from the Biosecurity Level 4 Lab in Wuhan that was specifically studying (and have publicly released papers on ) gain of function tests on coronavirus in bats and pangolins (COVID has genetic material of both). I am aware of no facts that disprove this theory and would be grateful for you to point me in the right direction of these facts.

It is the simplest, most logical, most fact based and least conspiratorial theory that the virus came from the Level 4 lab in Wuhan. It is actually more far fetched that it came from the "wet market".

I've provided a heap of information in my previous post, but would be interested to see/hear your facts that prove this not to be the case and to call my mental health into question.

Isn't that why an investigation team has entered China, to determine what exactly happened?


You would hope so and possibly it is. My post however was in response to Earls assertions that to consider a hypothesis that the virus came from the Wuhan lab was conspiratorial and indicative of mental health issues. It is neither and is in fact the least conspiratorial and the theory with the path of least resistance is the lab escape theory and there is plenty of real actual facts to support this.

With regards to the investigation team, is it from WHO? If so I'm afraid Im not confident that their findings would be widely embraced as impartial and definitive given their behavior and track record at the start of the pandemic.

If not the WHO, then WHO would you trust to lead an impartial investigation?

 

[hobbo1]

If my opinion was the sky is green, I am either lying, delusional or suffering from some form of vision impairment. Either way my opinion is not really valuable except to a medical professional trying to treat me.

This is the point. To me it's a mental health issue. ***There are no facts to these crazy theories.*** ***There is so much evidence against these crazy theories.***

The obvious conclusion is that these people have mental health problems.


Whoah hang on. Mental health problems? In your opinion.

There are many facts to support the theory that the virus escaped or was released from the Biosecurity Level 4 Lab in Wuhan that was specifically studying (and have publicly released papers on ) gain of function tests on coronavirus in bats and pangolins (COVID has genetic material of both). I am aware of no facts that disprove this theory and would be grateful for you to point me in the right direction of these facts.

It is the simplest, most logical, most fact based and least conspiratorial theory that the virus came from the Level 4 lab in Wuhan. It is actually more far fetched that it came from the "wet market".

I've provided a heap of information in my previous post, but would be interested to see/hear your facts that prove this not to be the case and to call my mental health into question.

Isn't that why an investigation team has entered China, to determine what exactly happened?


You would hope so and possibly it is. My post however was in response to Earls assertions that to consider a hypothesis that the virus came from the Wuhan lab was conspiratorial and indicative of mental health issues. It is neither and is in fact the least conspiratorial and the theory with the path of least resistance is the lab escape theory and there is plenty of real actual facts to support this.

With regards to the investigation team, is it from WHO? If so I'm afraid Im not confident that their findings would be widely embraced as impartial and definitive given their behavior and track record at the start of the pandemic.

Yes the team is from the WHO, they entered China on the 14th.


Good luck to them, Im sure they are being provided unfettered, easy, completely uncensored access to investigate an incident that happened 12 months ago without any political or financial pressure.

As if .....

 

[hobbo1]

If my opinion was the sky is green, I am either lying, delusional or suffering from some form of vision impairment. Either way my opinion is not really valuable except to a medical professional trying to treat me.

This is the point. To me it's a mental health issue. ***There are no facts to these crazy theories.*** ***There is so much evidence against these crazy theories.***

The obvious conclusion is that these people have mental health problems.


Whoah hang on. Mental health problems? In your opinion.

There are many facts to support the theory that the virus escaped or was released from the Biosecurity Level 4 Lab in Wuhan that was specifically studying (and have publicly released papers on ) gain of function tests on coronavirus in bats and pangolins (COVID has genetic material of both). I am aware of no facts that disprove this theory and would be grateful for you to point me in the right direction of these facts.

It is the simplest, most logical, most fact based and least conspiratorial theory that the virus came from the Level 4 lab in Wuhan. It is actually more far fetched that it came from the "wet market".

I've provided a heap of information in my previous post, but would be interested to see/hear your facts that prove this not to be the case and to call my mental health into question.

Isn't that why an investigation team has entered China, to determine what exactly happened?


You would hope so and possibly it is. My post however was in response to Earls assertions that to consider a hypothesis that the virus came from the Wuhan lab was conspiratorial and indicative of mental health issues. It is neither and is in fact the least conspiratorial and the theory with the path of least resistance is the lab escape theory and there is plenty of real actual facts to support this.

With regards to the investigation team, is it from WHO? If so I'm afraid Im not confident that their findings would be widely embraced as impartial and definitive given their behavior and track record at the start of the pandemic.

If not the WHO, then WHO would you trust to lead an impartial investigation?

Scully & Mulder

 

[happy_tiger]

I guess my question would to the points raised is this

So some viruses form by themselves or are they all leaks

Bird Flu Swine Flu .....


If you are genuinely interested Happy, go and look at the videos I recently posted in this thread. They are by an evolutionary biologist that specialises in bats and he gives a pretty good explanation of it all.

If you cant be bothered, the tldr version is this.

All viruses are merely small segments of genetic material (some DNA some RNA) covered in lipids (fat) with hooks that enable them to attach to certain types of cells (vary between different viruses). Every time a virus cell hooks onto a target cell, it basically injects its RNA/DNA into the target cell and uses the target cells as an incubator in which it replicates itself many times over with numerous "new" virus cells bursting out of the target cell.

Every time the virus does this and replicates it runs the risk of changing (mutating) very slightly either from replication errors or by interaction with the RNA/DNA of the target cell. This is partly how the genomic sequencing of COVID works.

COVID19 contains genetic material from bats and pangolins and these two animals do not share habitat. This means that at some stage a pangolin has to have caught it from a bat or vice versa and probably a number of times. The variation would take a lot of time to get to the stage that it is and it is unlikely that it would happen naturally in the wild without having been discovered, particularly as it is a zoonotic virus that effects humans.

Still tldr? A virus can exist in nature but varies/mutates slightly as it replicates. Would take a long time of bats catching it from pangolins and back and forth to get to COVID19. Or alternatively it could have been developed (for good benign scientific/medical reasons) in a lab that exists in Wuhan, that is a Biosecurity Level 4 facility that by their own published information specialises in coronavirus virus research into gain of function (intentionally making it worse) virus from bats and pangolins.

I did know some of that ..some I didn't so i appreciate all the trouble taht went into that

But my question in short was more this .....you can believe the virus was created by nature or you can believe it was nurtured

But as we have all learnt and seen if it was nurtured as some are suggesting ...it only takes one set of loose lips to sink the whole entire battleship .....and with the money that would be attached to delivering that info to the press ....

And as we have seen in the case of WOMD ......people are always prepared to spill the beans ..in the end

And if you want to blame the Chinese ...what in the end do they get out of it .......the world economies will bounce even higher out of it than at the start .......it wouldn't end Western Civilization ......the only thing would be something that should scare everyone ...they try an even worse virus next .....

I believe nature created the virus ......and we should all pray that is the case

 

[earl]

Reading this thread makes me think that Occam's razor has been thrown out or otherwise modified to: "forget the simplest explanation, it's the freaking lizard people taking over!"

Simplest explanation to me is that it was a virus being modified from a lab.
Question is, was it released deliberately..

And how nice to belittle people with comments such as 'lizard people' taking over.
Paint everyone with the same brush. I must be a Alex Jones or David Icke supper right because I go against mainstream views on a subject?

Do you have any proof of this ? Is this the first pandemic or epidemic mankind has suffered from ? Were these viruses always produced via labs ?

If you don't have any proof have you thought about getting mental health counseling ? If you continue to believe stuff without proof and with proof against what you are stating do you believe that means there is some mental health issue at play ?

Another demeaning statement regarding mental health.

So disguised swearing isn't allowed, but belittle others with disdainful statements like that is somewhat fine.

Viruses are studied, modified & experimented with all the time in virology labs. How hard is it to comprehend that?

So you don't have any proof to back up your loony tunes theory ? Geez that is a surprise.

You probably have a point. It's probably wrong to put people that have mental health illnesses in the same category as people like yourself. You have real problems with accepting reality but that it isn't fair to state that people who suffer from depression for instance are as delusional as what you are.

Maybe I should change my approach. You create and believe in crazy theories because you have an inability to think rationally and logically.

Still - answer the question. Where is your proof ?

Someone mentioned Occam's razor.
So I provided my conclusion of the simplest explanation.

So tell me, what type of things do they deal with in Virology labs?
Is it illogical to think a virus can be leaked from a lab?

That illogical that it must be a "loony tunes theory"..
Yeah ok mate..

Maybe your breathing in too much carbon dioxide with that mask.

This is such a load of palava and this goes for all these crazy theories that is was created in a lab.

The most logical explanation is like numerous viruses in the past it migrated from animals to humans via eating animal products. This has happened multiple times previously and it will probably happen again.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoonosis

So does anyone have any proof regarding the lab hypothesis. The answer is no. Let the WHO investigate and see what they state but the most likely answer is that this is the same as what has happened in the past multiple times.

 

[jadtiger]

Reading this thread makes me think that Occam's razor has been thrown out or otherwise modified to: "forget the simplest explanation, it's the freaking lizard people taking over!"

Simplest explanation to me is that it was a virus being modified from a lab.
Question is, was it released deliberately..

And how nice to belittle people with comments such as 'lizard people' taking over.
Paint everyone with the same brush. I must be a Alex Jones or David Icke supper right because I go against mainstream views on a subject?

Do you have any proof of this ? Is this the first pandemic or epidemic mankind has suffered from ? Were these viruses always produced via labs ?

If you don't have any proof have you thought about getting mental health counseling ? If you continue to believe stuff without proof and with proof against what you are stating do you believe that means there is some mental health issue at play ?

Another demeaning statement regarding mental health.

So disguised swearing isn't allowed, but belittle others with disdainful statements like that is somewhat fine.

Viruses are studied, modified & experimented with all the time in virology labs. How hard is it to comprehend that?

So you don't have any proof to back up your loony tunes theory ? Geez that is a surprise.

You probably have a point. It's probably wrong to put people that have mental health illnesses in the same category as people like yourself. You have real problems with accepting reality but that it isn't fair to state that people who suffer from depression for instance are as delusional as what you are.

Maybe I should change my approach. You create and believe in crazy theories because you have an inability to think rationally and logically.

Still - answer the question. Where is your proof ?

Someone mentioned Occam's razor.
So I provided my conclusion of the simplest explanation.

So tell me, what type of things do they deal with in Virology labs?
Is it illogical to think a virus can be leaked from a lab?

That illogical that it must be a "loony tunes theory"..
Yeah ok mate..

Maybe your breathing in too much carbon dioxide with that mask.

This is such a load of palava and this goes for all these crazy theories that is was created in a lab.

The most logical explanation is like numerous viruses in the past it migrated from animals to humans via eating animal products. This has happened multiple times previously and it will probably happen again.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoonosis

So does anyone have any proof regarding the lab hypothesis. The answer is no. Let the WHO investigate and see what they state but the most likely answer is that this is the same as what has happened in the past multiple times.

Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon and Q-anon believe it started in a lab in China,what more possible proof could anybody need?👽

 

[Tiger5150]

If my opinion was the sky is green, I am either lying, delusional or suffering from some form of vision impairment. Either way my opinion is not really valuable except to a medical professional trying to treat me.

This is the point. To me it's a mental health issue. ***There are no facts to these crazy theories.*** ***There is so much evidence against these crazy theories.***

The obvious conclusion is that these people have mental health problems.


Whoah hang on. Mental health problems? In your opinion.

There are many facts to support the theory that the virus escaped or was released from the Biosecurity Level 4 Lab in Wuhan that was specifically studying (and have publicly released papers on ) gain of function tests on coronavirus in bats and pangolins (COVID has genetic material of both). I am aware of no facts that disprove this theory and would be grateful for you to point me in the right direction of these facts.

It is the simplest, most logical, most fact based and least conspiratorial theory that the virus came from the Level 4 lab in Wuhan. It is actually more far fetched that it came from the "wet market".

I've provided a heap of information in my previous post, but would be interested to see/hear your facts that prove this not to be the case and to call my mental health into question.

Isn't that why an investigation team has entered China, to determine what exactly happened?


You would hope so and possibly it is. My post however was in response to Earls assertions that to consider a hypothesis that the virus came from the Wuhan lab was conspiratorial and indicative of mental health issues. It is neither and is in fact the least conspiratorial and the theory with the path of least resistance is the lab escape theory and there is plenty of real actual facts to support this.

With regards to the investigation team, is it from WHO? If so I'm afraid Im not confident that their findings would be widely embraced as impartial and definitive given their behavior and track record at the start of the pandemic.

If not the WHO, then WHO would you trust to lead an impartial investigation?

Genuinely dont know the answer to that question, but I do know that I dont trust WHO to conduct an impartial (or be allowed to) in China. I actually dont see how it would be possible to. For example, do you think that the CCP would have left things exactly as they are in the Wuhan Level 4 lab as it was 12months ago? What would actually be able to be investigated in that lab 12 months later?

The US Goverment raised concerns and attempted to investigate this lab 2 years prior to the virus in 2018 but were blocked by China. The lab has been sealed off to international investigators for 12 months, but now they open the doors to to WHO.

Ill attempt to answer your question with another. Why do we need an investigation? Scientists know what it is and its genetic origin. We know the geographical origin. As someone posted earlier, I think this is the perfect situation for occams razor.

 

[hobbo1]

Wether or not covids was nature’s gift or man made the Chinese knew what they were doing ..

 

[Tiger5150]

I guess my question would to the points raised is this

So some viruses form by themselves or are they all leaks

Bird Flu Swine Flu .....


If you are genuinely interested Happy, go and look at the videos I recently posted in this thread. They are by an evolutionary biologist that specialises in bats and he gives a pretty good explanation of it all.

If you cant be bothered, the tldr version is this.

All viruses are merely small segments of genetic material (some DNA some RNA) covered in lipids (fat) with hooks that enable them to attach to certain types of cells (vary between different viruses). Every time a virus cell hooks onto a target cell, it basically injects its RNA/DNA into the target cell and uses the target cells as an incubator in which it replicates itself many times over with numerous "new" virus cells bursting out of the target cell.

Every time the virus does this and replicates it runs the risk of changing (mutating) very slightly either from replication errors or by interaction with the RNA/DNA of the target cell. This is partly how the genomic sequencing of COVID works.

COVID19 contains genetic material from bats and pangolins and these two animals do not share habitat. This means that at some stage a pangolin has to have caught it from a bat or vice versa and probably a number of times. The variation would take a lot of time to get to the stage that it is and it is unlikely that it would happen naturally in the wild without having been discovered, particularly as it is a zoonotic virus that effects humans.

Still tldr? A virus can exist in nature but varies/mutates slightly as it replicates. Would take a long time of bats catching it from pangolins and back and forth to get to COVID19. Or alternatively it could have been developed (for good benign scientific/medical reasons) in a lab that exists in Wuhan, that is a Biosecurity Level 4 facility that by their own published information specialises in coronavirus virus research into gain of function (intentionally making it worse) virus from bats and pangolins.

I did know some of that ..some I didn't so i appreciate all the trouble taht went into that

But my question in short was more this .....you can believe the virus was created by nature or you can believe it was nurtured

But as we have all learnt and seen if it was nurtured as some are suggesting ...it only takes one set of loose lips to sink the whole entire battleship .....and with the money that would be attached to delivering that info to the press ....

And as we have seen in the case of WOMD ......people are always prepared to spill the beans ..in the end

And if you want to blame the Chinese ...what in the end do they get out of it .......the world economies will bounce even higher out of it than at the start .......it wouldn't end Western Civilization ......the only thing would be something that should scare everyone ...they try an even worse virus next .....

I believe nature created the virus ......and we should all pray that is the case

I think you (and others here) are putting 2 + 2 together and getting 5.

The lab in Wuhan WAS creating viruses (including coronaviruses from bats and pangolins) and INTENTIONALLY making them worse. This is called "gain of function" research. This isnt conspiratorial QAnon stuff, this is published information, from the lab itself. It isnt a secret and it isnt malevolent, they were doing it with the knowledge and approval of the whole world. They were trained in how to do it by the US and even in Australia. It is legitimate and important scientific and medical research.

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/25/5/18-0220_article


The hypothesis that the virus came from the BSCL4 Lab in Wuhan, isnt suggesting that China was weaponising the virus (well they were effectively but without the intent of using it as a weapon), but that there are MANY ways that a gain of function virus (including a bat/pangolin mutation which COVID is) could escape the lab such as on someones clothing, or a worker there could have become infected with it and gone home with it (patient zero).

In 2018 the US raised concerns with China regarding breaches of security at the lab but China blocked US efforts to investigate.

https://www.voanews.com/covid-19-pandemic/chinese-lab-checkered-safety-record-draws-scrutiny-over-covid-19
https://www.nature.com/news/inside-the-chinese-lab-poised-to-study-world-s-most-dangerous-pathogens-1.21487

This seriously is the path of least resistance occams razor hypothesis.

 

[happy_tiger]

I guess my question would to the points raised is this

So some viruses form by themselves or are they all leaks

Bird Flu Swine Flu .....


If you are genuinely interested Happy, go and look at the videos I recently posted in this thread. They are by an evolutionary biologist that specialises in bats and he gives a pretty good explanation of it all.

If you cant be bothered, the tldr version is this.

All viruses are merely small segments of genetic material (some DNA some RNA) covered in lipids (fat) with hooks that enable them to attach to certain types of cells (vary between different viruses). Every time a virus cell hooks onto a target cell, it basically injects its RNA/DNA into the target cell and uses the target cells as an incubator in which it replicates itself many times over with numerous "new" virus cells bursting out of the target cell.

Every time the virus does this and replicates it runs the risk of changing (mutating) very slightly either from replication errors or by interaction with the RNA/DNA of the target cell. This is partly how the genomic sequencing of COVID works.

COVID19 contains genetic material from bats and pangolins and these two animals do not share habitat. This means that at some stage a pangolin has to have caught it from a bat or vice versa and probably a number of times. The variation would take a lot of time to get to the stage that it is and it is unlikely that it would happen naturally in the wild without having been discovered, particularly as it is a zoonotic virus that effects humans.

Still tldr? A virus can exist in nature but varies/mutates slightly as it replicates. Would take a long time of bats catching it from pangolins and back and forth to get to COVID19. Or alternatively it could have been developed (for good benign scientific/medical reasons) in a lab that exists in Wuhan, that is a Biosecurity Level 4 facility that by their own published information specialises in coronavirus virus research into gain of function (intentionally making it worse) virus from bats and pangolins.

I did know some of that ..some I didn't so i appreciate all the trouble taht went into that

But my question in short was more this .....you can believe the virus was created by nature or you can believe it was nurtured

But as we have all learnt and seen if it was nurtured as some are suggesting ...it only takes one set of loose lips to sink the whole entire battleship .....and with the money that would be attached to delivering that info to the press ....

And as we have seen in the case of WOMD ......people are always prepared to spill the beans ..in the end

And if you want to blame the Chinese ...what in the end do they get out of it .......the world economies will bounce even higher out of it than at the start .......it wouldn't end Western Civilization ......the only thing would be something that should scare everyone ...they try an even worse virus next .....

I believe nature created the virus ......and we should all pray that is the case


I think you (and others here) are putting 2 + 2 together and getting 5.

The lab in Wuhan WAS creating viruses (including coronaviruses from bats and pangolins) and INTENTIONALLY making them worse. This is called "gain of function" research. This isnt conspiratorial QAnon stuff, this is published information, from the lab itself. It isnt a secret and it isnt malevolent, they were doing it with the knowledge and approval of the whole world. They were trained in how to do it by the US and even in Australia. It is legitimate and important scientific and medical research.

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/25/5/18-0220_article


The hypothesis that the virus came from the BSCL4 Lab in Wuhan, isnt suggesting that China was weaponising the virus (well they were effectively but without the intent of using it as a weapon), but that there are MANY ways that a gain of function virus (including a bat/pangolin mutation which COVID is) could escape the lab such as on someones clothing, or a worker there could have become infected with it and gone home with it (patient zero).

In 2018 the US raised concerns with China regarding breaches of security at the lab but China blocked US efforts to investigate.

https://www.voanews.com/covid-19-pandemic/chinese-lab-checkered-safety-record-draws-scrutiny-over-covid-19
https://www.nature.com/news/inside-the-chinese-lab-poised-to-study-world-s-most-dangerous-pathogens-1.21487

This seriously is the path of least resistance occams razor hypothesis.

Doesn't explain why you would then release it ....

 

[Tiger5150]

Reading this thread makes me think that Occam's razor has been thrown out or otherwise modified to: "forget the simplest explanation, it's the freaking lizard people taking over!"

Simplest explanation to me is that it was a virus being modified from a lab.
Question is, was it released deliberately..

And how nice to belittle people with comments such as 'lizard people' taking over.
Paint everyone with the same brush. I must be a Alex Jones or David Icke supper right because I go against mainstream views on a subject?

Do you have any proof of this ? Is this the first pandemic or epidemic mankind has suffered from ? Were these viruses always produced via labs ?

If you don't have any proof have you thought about getting mental health counseling ? If you continue to believe stuff without proof and with proof against what you are stating do you believe that means there is some mental health issue at play ?

Another demeaning statement regarding mental health.

So disguised swearing isn't allowed, but belittle others with disdainful statements like that is somewhat fine.

Viruses are studied, modified & experimented with all the time in virology labs. How hard is it to comprehend that?

So you don't have any proof to back up your loony tunes theory ? Geez that is a surprise.

You probably have a point. It's probably wrong to put people that have mental health illnesses in the same category as people like yourself. You have real problems with accepting reality but that it isn't fair to state that people who suffer from depression for instance are as delusional as what you are.

Maybe I should change my approach. You create and believe in crazy theories because you have an inability to think rationally and logically.

Still - answer the question. Where is your proof ?

Someone mentioned Occam's razor.
So I provided my conclusion of the simplest explanation.

So tell me, what type of things do they deal with in Virology labs?
Is it illogical to think a virus can be leaked from a lab?

That illogical that it must be a "loony tunes theory"..
Yeah ok mate..

Maybe your breathing in too much carbon dioxide with that mask.

This is such a load of palava and this goes for all these crazy theories that is was created in a lab.

Serious question Earl. What makes the theory that an effective gain of function coronavirus that contains bat and pangolin RNA/DNA could have escaped from the Lab that publishes its research into gain of function coronaviruses of bats and pangolins that is in the geographic centre of the outbreak and that had previously had significant biosecurity breaches less than two years earlier.........crazy?


The most logical explanation is like numerous viruses in the past it migrated from animals to humans via eating animal products. This has happened multiple times previously and it will probably happen again.

Most logical? In what way? Please explain your logically pathway that results in a gain of function bat/pangolin hybrid virus and explain why it is ***more*** logical than it leaving a lab that specialises in exactly that?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoonosis

So does anyone have any proof regarding the lab hypothesis. The answer is no. Let the WHO investigate and see what they state but the most likely answer is that this is the same as what has happened in the past multiple times.

Do you have proof of the wet market hypothesis? No you dont and no one has proof of the lab hypothesis. Such is the nature of hypothesies however you can make assertations. For mine it is MUCH more likely to have innocently escaped from a lab that actually specialises in making these viruses. It is too big a coincidence not to be.

 

[happy_tiger]

Reading this thread makes me think that Occam's razor has been thrown out or otherwise modified to: "forget the simplest explanation, it's the freaking lizard people taking over!"

Simplest explanation to me is that it was a virus being modified from a lab.
Question is, was it released deliberately..

And how nice to belittle people with comments such as 'lizard people' taking over.
Paint everyone with the same brush. I must be a Alex Jones or David Icke supper right because I go against mainstream views on a subject?

Do you have any proof of this ? Is this the first pandemic or epidemic mankind has suffered from ? Were these viruses always produced via labs ?

If you don't have any proof have you thought about getting mental health counseling ? If you continue to believe stuff without proof and with proof against what you are stating do you believe that means there is some mental health issue at play ?

Another demeaning statement regarding mental health.

So disguised swearing isn't allowed, but belittle others with disdainful statements like that is somewhat fine.

Viruses are studied, modified & experimented with all the time in virology labs. How hard is it to comprehend that?

So you don't have any proof to back up your loony tunes theory ? Geez that is a surprise.

You probably have a point. It's probably wrong to put people that have mental health illnesses in the same category as people like yourself. You have real problems with accepting reality but that it isn't fair to state that people who suffer from depression for instance are as delusional as what you are.

Maybe I should change my approach. You create and believe in crazy theories because you have an inability to think rationally and logically.

Still - answer the question. Where is your proof ?

Someone mentioned Occam's razor.
So I provided my conclusion of the simplest explanation.

So tell me, what type of things do they deal with in Virology labs?
Is it illogical to think a virus can be leaked from a lab?

That illogical that it must be a "loony tunes theory"..
Yeah ok mate..

Maybe your breathing in too much carbon dioxide with that mask.

This is such a load of palava and this goes for all these crazy theories that is was created in a lab.

Serious question Earl. What makes the theory that an effective gain of function coronavirus that contains bat and pangolin RNA/DNA could have escaped from the Lab that publishes its research into gain of function coronaviruses of bats and pangolins that is in the geographic centre of the outbreak and that had previously had significant biosecurity breaches less than two years earlier.........crazy?


The most logical explanation is like numerous viruses in the past it migrated from animals to humans via eating animal products. This has happened multiple times previously and it will probably happen again.

Most logical? In what way? Please explain your logically pathway that results in a gain of function bat/pangolin hybrid virus and explain why it is ***more*** logical than it leaving a lab that specialises in exactly that?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoonosis

So does anyone have any proof regarding the lab hypothesis. The answer is no. Let the WHO investigate and see what they state but the most likely answer is that this is the same as what has happened in the past multiple times.

Do you have proof of the wet market hypothesis? No you dont and no one has proof of the lab hypothesis. Such is the nature of hypothesies however you can make assertations. For mine it is MUCH more likely to have innocently escaped from a lab that actually specialises in making these viruses. It is too big a coincidence not to be.

If it has happened that is the only way I see it happening

If released purposely you'd release something far worse ...wouldn't you ??

 

[Tiger5150]

I guess my question would to the points raised is this

So some viruses form by themselves or are they all leaks

Bird Flu Swine Flu .....


If you are genuinely interested Happy, go and look at the videos I recently posted in this thread. They are by an evolutionary biologist that specialises in bats and he gives a pretty good explanation of it all.

If you cant be bothered, the tldr version is this.

All viruses are merely small segments of genetic material (some DNA some RNA) covered in lipids (fat) with hooks that enable them to attach to certain types of cells (vary between different viruses). Every time a virus cell hooks onto a target cell, it basically injects its RNA/DNA into the target cell and uses the target cells as an incubator in which it replicates itself many times over with numerous "new" virus cells bursting out of the target cell.

Every time the virus does this and replicates it runs the risk of changing (mutating) very slightly either from replication errors or by interaction with the RNA/DNA of the target cell. This is partly how the genomic sequencing of COVID works.

COVID19 contains genetic material from bats and pangolins and these two animals do not share habitat. This means that at some stage a pangolin has to have caught it from a bat or vice versa and probably a number of times. The variation would take a lot of time to get to the stage that it is and it is unlikely that it would happen naturally in the wild without having been discovered, particularly as it is a zoonotic virus that effects humans.

Still tldr? A virus can exist in nature but varies/mutates slightly as it replicates. Would take a long time of bats catching it from pangolins and back and forth to get to COVID19. Or alternatively it could have been developed (for good benign scientific/medical reasons) in a lab that exists in Wuhan, that is a Biosecurity Level 4 facility that by their own published information specialises in coronavirus virus research into gain of function (intentionally making it worse) virus from bats and pangolins.

I did know some of that ..some I didn't so i appreciate all the trouble taht went into that

But my question in short was more this .....you can believe the virus was created by nature or you can believe it was nurtured

But as we have all learnt and seen if it was nurtured as some are suggesting ...it only takes one set of loose lips to sink the whole entire battleship .....and with the money that would be attached to delivering that info to the press ....

And as we have seen in the case of WOMD ......people are always prepared to spill the beans ..in the end

And if you want to blame the Chinese ...what in the end do they get out of it .......the world economies will bounce even higher out of it than at the start .......it wouldn't end Western Civilization ......the only thing would be something that should scare everyone ...they try an even worse virus next .....

I believe nature created the virus ......and we should all pray that is the case


I think you (and others here) are putting 2 + 2 together and getting 5.

The lab in Wuhan WAS creating viruses (including coronaviruses from bats and pangolins) and INTENTIONALLY making them worse. This is called "gain of function" research. This isnt conspiratorial QAnon stuff, this is published information, from the lab itself. It isnt a secret and it isnt malevolent, they were doing it with the knowledge and approval of the whole world. They were trained in how to do it by the US and even in Australia. It is legitimate and important scientific and medical research.

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/25/5/18-0220_article


The hypothesis that the virus came from the BSCL4 Lab in Wuhan, isnt suggesting that China was weaponising the virus (well they were effectively but without the intent of using it as a weapon), but that there are MANY ways that a gain of function virus (including a bat/pangolin mutation which COVID is) could escape the lab such as on someones clothing, or a worker there could have become infected with it and gone home with it (patient zero).

In 2018 the US raised concerns with China regarding breaches of security at the lab but China blocked US efforts to investigate.

https://www.voanews.com/covid-19-pandemic/chinese-lab-checkered-safety-record-draws-scrutiny-over-covid-19
https://www.nature.com/news/inside-the-chinese-lab-poised-to-study-world-s-most-dangerous-pathogens-1.21487

This seriously is the path of least resistance occams razor hypothesis.

Doesn't explain why you would then release it ....

IMO the most obvious and likely scenario is it want released. In this lab every day they are creating these viruses and working on them in order to make them "worse" (gain of function) in part to learn how to deal with them if they get out into the wild. The reason this lab is designated Biosec Level 4 is it has to meet incredible standards of security in order to prevent these pathogens from getting out. IMO the lost likely is that it has somehow gotten out by a breach in biosecurity protocols. Concerns were raised two years earlier of lapses in these protocols. The virus could have left the lab on someones clothing or in a workers lungs. This hypothesis does not suggest it was intentionally released.