Coronavirus Outbreak

[cochise]

Had my second dose of Pfizer yesterday and it had knocked me around.

Hope you feel better soon.

Me too mate, have to interview big Keithy tomorrow night.

 

[hobbo1]

Had my second dose of Pfizer yesterday and it had knocked me around.

Hope you feel better soon.

Me too mate, have to interview big Keithy tomorrow night.

Arm wrestle him !

 

[cochise]

Had my second dose of Pfizer yesterday and it had knocked me around.

Hope you feel better soon.

Me too mate, have to interview big Keithy tomorrow night.

Arm wrestle him !

Better not show him up lol

 

[InBenjiWeTrust]

Interesting

https://twitter.com/Virg2101/status/1405872711138627594?s=20

 

[InBenjiWeTrust]

Even more confusing:astonished:

NEW - Positive PCR test results do not sufficiently prove that people infected with #SARSCoV2 can infect others with the coronavirus, new research that included 190k results from 160k people at the UDE Faculty of Medicine in Germany concludes.

https://id.elsevier.com/ACW/?return=https%3A%2F%2Fsecure.jbs.elsevierhealth.com%2Faction%2FconsumeSsoCookie%3FredirectUri%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fwww.journalofinfection.com%252Faction%252FconsumeSharedSessionAction%253FSERVER%253DWZ6myaEXBLFKjn1do9Q5dA%25253D%25253D%2526MAID%253Dmejx%25252FsacwUYeIz2NJIoISA%25253D%25253D%2526I2KBRCK%253D1%2526JSESSIONID%253Daaal3jlgjKz_D-rgN7DOx%2526ORIGIN%253D30743468%2526RD%253DRD%2526exp%253D0wxmV7%2525252Fq3avzlyaGUNjd%2525252BA%2525253D%2525253D%26code%3Dnull

 

[Tiger5150]

This data is a graph of deaths reported to VAERS for Covid Vaccine versus all other vaccines combined since 1990. This is not from a conspiracy source. This is from the CDC (US Govt) and is very likely to be under reported.

https://wonder.cdc.gov/controller/datarequest/D8;jsessionid=CAA23911683FBFC4E68D9C700462


Thanks for your response to my earlier posts T5150.

Thank you Tigger for your measured, balanced and logical response to mine.

I went onto the CDC website, but I couldn't replicate the report you presented.

Go to https://vaers.hhs.gov/

Click on VAERS Data

Scroll down, tick the "I have read...." and click on search CDC Wonder.

Scroll down and click on "I agree" on the disclaimer.

Click the REquest Form tab

1. Organise Table Layout - Group results by... Year Reported (leave everything else in 1.

2. Select Symptoms - Leave on "all"

3. Select Vaccine Characteristics - Leave on "all" for all

4. Select Location /Age?gender - Leave on "all" for all

5. Select Other Event Characteristics - Event Category - Select "death" - Leave on "all" for all else

6. Search text fields - Leave empty for all

7. Select reported dates - Select 1992 to 2021 inclusive

8. Select Report recieved dates - Select 1992 to 2021 inclusive

9. Select Vaccination dates - leave on all

10. Select Adverse onset - - Select 1992 to 2021 inclusive

11 Select death dates - - Select 1992 to 2021 inclusive

Then click any of the "send" buttons on the right

The results will then come up, then click on the chart tab.

To make it look the same as mine, click on chart options and change the "measures" from percentage to Events reported and then scroll down to changeplot orientation to vertical.

Im sorry this is so long and labourious but its important to show Im not fudging the data.

>I felt, however that, if the number of deaths were as high as indicated in the report you posted, there would be other references to it.

There is a clear and direct reference to this on the CDC website which states...." *More than 310 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through June 14, 2021. During this time, **VAERS received 5,343 reports of death (0.0017%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine.** FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, **even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause**. A review of available clinical information, including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records, has not established a causal link to COVID-19 vaccines. However, recent reports indicate a plausible causal relationship between the J&J/Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine and TTS, a rare and serious adverse event—blood clots with low platelets—which has caused deaths.*"

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html

I agree that the VAERS data does not prove or show or even seek to prove or show causality. That is not the purpose of the VAERS system. The purpose of the VAERS system is to identify signals regarding the vaccine that require investigation. VAERS data does not show causality or disprove it.

There were a number of references to the use of the CDC data. I've posted below a couple of the articles I came across. The common theme of these articles is that there is no causal link in the CDC data between the vaccines and the death of the vaccine recipients. In other words, **if you got a vaccine, and were then run over by a truck, your death will be recorded in the CDC data as a death occurring following a vaccine.** If the number of people who receive vaccines increases significantly, then so will the reported deaths.

Yes the VAERS data does not prove causality, however what you have posted is not true. The VAERS site spells out what healthcare workers are required to report....

*"Healthcare providers are required by law to report to VAERS:
• Any adverse event listed in the VAERS Table of Reportable Events Following Vaccination that occurs within the specified time period after vaccinations
• An adverse event listed by the vaccine manufacturer as a contraindication to further doses of the vaccine"*

Specifically relating to COVID....

*Healthcare providers are required to report to VAERS the following adverse events after COVID-19 vaccination [under Emergency Use Authorization (EUA)], and other adverse events if later revised by CDC:

Vaccine administration errors, whether or not associated with an adverse event (AE)
Serious AEs regardless of causality. Serious AEs per FDA are defined as:
Death;
A life-threatening AE;
Inpatient hospitalization or prolongation of existing hospitalization;
A persistent or significant incapacity or substantial disruption of the ability to conduct normal life functions;
A congenital anomaly/birth defect;
An important medical event that based on appropriate medical judgement may jeopardize the individual and may require medical or surgical intervention to prevent one of the outcomes listed above.
Cases of Multisystem Inflammatory Syndrome
Cases of COVID-19 that result in hospitalization or death

Healthcare providers are encouraged to report to VAERS any additional clinically significant AEs following vaccination, even if they are not sure if vaccination caused the event.

Also report any additional select AEs and/or any revised safety reporting requirements per FDA’s conditions of authorized use of vaccine(s) throughout the duration of any COVID-19 Vaccine being authorized under an Emergency Use Authorization (EUA)."*


One of the articles that I have posted is particularly disparaging of people who use the CDC data to advance an anti-vax agenda. I think the article has value, because there are people taking advantage of this health crisis to advance these ideas. I am not suggesting that your intentions, in posting the data from the CDC, are to advance an anti-vax agenda. You have stated quite clearly that you are not anti-vax. Please don't interpret the tone of the article as a personal attack by me.

I appreciate and respect your willingness to discuss this civilly and not paint me as an anti-vaxxer. Kudos to you.

Both of the articles you posted are factual, but in my opinion are pulling a journalistic trick that I see a lot in the media lately. That trick is to use a fact to club down the actual story, For instance both of these articles state that (accurately and factually) that the VAERS data does not prove causality which is correct, but then basically make the point that you should then look away and disregard it which is rubbish. That graph I posted shows deaths after the Covid vaccine ***relative*** to every other vaccine for 30years and the same conditions apply for all the other vaccines.

Ive been banging on about Ivermectin (a drug which the clinical evidence shows is not statistically effective) a lot in this thread based on hundreds of randomised clinical trials proving the safety and efficacy of Ivermectin (a drug which the clinical evidence shows is not statistically effective) as both a treatment and a prophylactic. If you think that is interesting and decide to google it, probably the majority of articles you will see will all say there is no scientific proof that this is true. The trick here is the same. All of these articles will **ALL** simply say that there are no **peer reviewed** studies showing the safety and efficacy of Ivermectin (a drug which the clinical evidence shows is not statistically effective) for COVID which is (was) true but that is because the peer review process takes a long time and we havent had a long time. NONE of the vaccine studies went through peer review. None of the vaccines got through Phase 3 trials.

As an aside the American Journal of Therapeutics has just published the first fully peer reviewed journal article showing the safety and efficacy of Ivermectin (a drug which the clinical evidence shows is not statistically effective) for Covid.

Https://journals.lww.com/americantherapeutics/fulltext/2021/06000/review_of_the_emerging_evidence_demonstrating_the.4.aspx


Discussing the safety and efficacy of the covid vaccines is a valid thing to do, but we need to be careful about it. It's so hard to believe anything we read these days - particularly on the internet. It's just a real struggle to know where to get valid information.

Media dissemination of information has become horribly politicised. The second of those articles that you posted is in my opinion disgraceful (not a reflection on you posting it), That article is in a Science journal and the headline is "**Antivaccine activists** use a government database on side effects to s**care the public**". That is not science, that is politics. You can see that that information (VAERS data) is valid and worth considering without being an antivaxxer and disseminating information is hardly "scaring the public". It is information to be looked at critically. You asked the right questions (what percentage of people that were vaccinated does that represent vs other years/vaccines) and that is the right thing to do. Look at the data, critically assess it and utilise it accordingly. For most the way information is assessed is, "who's narrative does this best suit and I'll ignore it accordingly".

For what its worth, its worth learning to find and read scientific articles. That is where some truth can be found.


Vaccination is a health issue but it's also an economic issue. Full economic recovery is dependent upon broad-based immunity. Any disinformation in relation to the safety of our vaccination program is an attack on our economic well being.

Of course, but I'd respectfully suggest to you that I have not provided any disinformation, only information. Information is becoming increasingly important and increasingly guarded and suppressed. What if there was a safer, cheaper, easier as effective alternative to vaccines?
https://c19ivermectin.com/
https://journals.lww.com/americantherapeutics/fulltext/2021/06000/review_of_the_emerging_evidence_demonstrating_the.4.aspx

What if clinical trials have been done in Germany and actual confidentail Pfizer data obtained by Japanese Government under FOIA showing that the S1 unit spike protein in vaccines is pathogenic and is being concentrated in the bone marrow and ovaries of people who have had the vaccines? (to be more accurate the Pfizer data shows the lipid capsule that contains the S1 unit, not the S1 unit itself)
https://trialsitenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Pfizer-report_Japanese-government.pdf.

The population of the US is 328M, 616920 people have died of Covid 19 which is 0.0019% (of course the case mortality rate is around 1%)

Based on the VAERS data and the CDC there have been 310M doses of the vaccine and 5343 deaths after the vaccine (no causal link). This represents 0.0017% however if you assume that they all got two doses (of course not everyone will have gotten the second dose yet but how else do you do the maths?), then this is 155M people and the 5343 deaths represents 0.003%. That is 1 death per 30,000 people vaccinated. Yes there is no causal link but the data exists.

Again, I am NOT antivaxx. I am fully vaccinated except for Covid and so are my kids. This vaccine has not been researched, tested, approved or manufactured like ANY vaccine before it and as a result IMO it should not be blindly trusted like previous. There is a lot of actual scientific data coming out that this vaccine is not doing what it was expected to do.

 

[Tiger5150]

A VERY long and not easy listen, but I genuinely implore everyone to listen to/watch this podcast. Incredibly important information regarding Covid, vaccines and treatments. Not conspiracy theories, not Qanon, not crackpots. Two PHD's and one researcher, including the inventor of mRNA vaccine technology. Very troubling, but very important information.

A teaser....CDC compiled records within VAERS (Vaccine Adverse Event Recording System) show more people have died of Covid vaccines than all vaccines combined in the last 30 years. Many other serious adverse reactions. Sounds like conspiratorial rubbish, but official data.

Watch the video, look at the data yourself.

https://youtu.be/-_NNTVJzqtY

https://trialsitenews.com/should-you-get-vaccinated/

https://www.rwmalonemd.com/mrna-vaccine-inventor

[/QUOTE]


8 days ago I posted a video of three respected scientists and researchers (well IMO at least two, one of them seems to have an agenda and a love of hyperbole). Two of them are Doctors (PhD) in Biology, one of them invented the MRNA vaccine technology used in the Covid vaccines. These people are actual, well respected scientists. In the video they do not speculate and they discuss the data of actual randomised clinical trials. In the video they note where a trial may have had shortcomings. There is no propaganda, there is no assumptions, all of it is a literal dissection of scientific data. From this the three of them bring to light very concerning data regarding the spike in the vaccine (based on actual Pfizer data) and a number of concerning elements of the vaccines and data coming from it. They also discuss Ivermectin (a drug which the clinical evidence shows is not statistically effective) from a similarly scientific viewpoint.

Youtube has taken it down and temporarily suspended Bret Weinstein from Youtube. This level of attempted control over what information we are able to hear and critically assess is terrifying and Orwellian. As scary as the virus and the vaccine. None of this information is conspiratorial, nor do I particularly adhere to a theory that the virus and vaccine is all part of a "big pharma" conspiracy, but this kind of Orwellian suppress starts to make you wonder.

Luckily the original video is still available here.

 

[tigger]

Vaccination is a health issue but it’s also an economic issue. Full economic recovery is dependent upon broad-based immunity. Any disinformation in relation to the safety of our vaccination program is an attack on our economic well being.

Of course, but I’d respectfully suggest to you that I have not provided any disinformation, only information. Information is becoming increasingly important and increasingly guarded and suppressed. What if there was a safer, cheaper, easier as effective alternative to vaccines?

I disagree with you at this point T5150. I'm sure you didn't intend to provide disinformation, but posting that graph of deaths following vaccination, without explaining that there is actually no causal links between those deaths and the vaccinations, might lead the casual reader to assume that 5,000 people died as a result of having a covid vaccination.

Sure, you posted a link to the site, so anyone who wanted to could get that information for themselves, but I have to say to you that I don't think that's good enough.

Without that explanation, the post infers, even if unintentionally, that the deaths are as a result of the vaccination. That may well deter people who would otherwise receive a vaccination. If you are going to post information about vaccination statistics I feel that it is incumbent upon you to make sure that those statistics are presented, in your post, in a way that reflects their true value and usage. It's too important an issue to just dump the data out there without the important explanatory notes from the data site.

 

[Tiger5150]

Vaccination is a health issue but it’s also an economic issue. Full economic recovery is dependent upon broad-based immunity. Any disinformation in relation to the safety of our vaccination program is an attack on our economic well being.

Of course, but I’d respectfully suggest to you that I have not provided any disinformation, only information. Information is becoming increasingly important and increasingly guarded and suppressed. What if there was a safer, cheaper, easier as effective alternative to vaccines?

I disagree with you at this point T5150. I'm sure you didn't intend to provide disinformation, but posting that graph of deaths following vaccination, without explaining that there is actually no causal links between those deaths and the vaccinations, might lead the casual reader to assume that 5,000 people died as a result of having a covid vaccination.

Sure, you posted a link to the site, so anyone who wanted to could get that information for themselves, but I have to say to you that I don't think that's good enough.

Without that explanation, the post infers, even if unintentionally, that the deaths are as a result of the vaccination. That may well deter people who would otherwise receive a vaccination. If you are going to post information about vaccination statistics I feel that it is incumbent upon you to make sure that those statistics are presented, in your post, in a way that reflects their true value and usage. It's too important an issue to just dump the data out there without the important explanatory notes from the data site.

Mate, that is a fair point and assure you it wasnt my intention. If you look at my posts here in this thread, I would say almost everytime I state an opinion or a "fact" I always post a link to the information and make as much effort as I can to provide full disclosure of the information.

 

[mike]

Vaccination is a health issue but it’s also an economic issue. Full economic recovery is dependent upon broad-based immunity. Any disinformation in relation to the safety of our vaccination program is an attack on our economic well being.

Of course, but I’d respectfully suggest to you that I have not provided any disinformation, only information. Information is becoming increasingly important and increasingly guarded and suppressed. What if there was a safer, cheaper, easier as effective alternative to vaccines?

I disagree with you at this point T5150. I'm sure you didn't intend to provide disinformation, but posting that graph of deaths following vaccination, without explaining that there is actually no causal links between those deaths and the vaccinations, might lead the casual reader to assume that 5,000 people died as a result of having a covid vaccination.

Sure, you posted a link to the site, so anyone who wanted to could get that information for themselves, but I have to say to you that I don't think that's good enough.

Without that explanation, the post infers, even if unintentionally, that the deaths are as a result of the vaccination. That may well deter people who would otherwise receive a vaccination. If you are going to post information about vaccination statistics I feel that it is incumbent upon you to make sure that those statistics are presented, in your post, in a way that reflects their true value and usage. It's too important an issue to just dump the data out there without the important explanatory notes from the data site.

Yeah I tried to explain that to my Missus the other night. I finally got through when I said something along the lines:
so when everyone is vaccinated nobody dies?

A lightbulb moment.

 

[Tiger5150]

Vaccination is a health issue but it’s also an economic issue. Full economic recovery is dependent upon broad-based immunity. Any disinformation in relation to the safety of our vaccination program is an attack on our economic well being.

Of course, but I’d respectfully suggest to you that I have not provided any disinformation, only information. Information is becoming increasingly important and increasingly guarded and suppressed. What if there was a safer, cheaper, easier as effective alternative to vaccines?

I disagree with you at this point T5150. I'm sure you didn't intend to provide disinformation, but posting that graph of deaths following vaccination, without explaining that there is actually no causal links between those deaths and the vaccinations, might lead the casual reader to assume that 5,000 people died as a result of having a covid vaccination.

Sure, you posted a link to the site, so anyone who wanted to could get that information for themselves, but I have to say to you that I don't think that's good enough.

Without that explanation, the post infers, even if unintentionally, that the deaths are as a result of the vaccination. That may well deter people who would otherwise receive a vaccination. If you are going to post information about vaccination statistics I feel that it is incumbent upon you to make sure that those statistics are presented, in your post, in a way that reflects their true value and usage. It's too important an issue to just dump the data out there without the important explanatory notes from the data site.

Yeah I tried to explain that to my Missus the other night. I finally got through when I said something along the lines:
so when everyone is vaccinated nobody dies?

A lightbulb moment.

No one dies of the vaccine Mike?

 

[gallagher]

Had my second dose of Pfizer yesterday and it had knocked me around.

How were you after the first jab? I'm getting my first Monday.

 

[tigger]

Vaccination is a health issue but it’s also an economic issue. Full economic recovery is dependent upon broad-based immunity. Any disinformation in relation to the safety of our vaccination program is an attack on our economic well being.

Of course, but I’d respectfully suggest to you that I have not provided any disinformation, only information. Information is becoming increasingly important and increasingly guarded and suppressed. What if there was a safer, cheaper, easier as effective alternative to vaccines?

I disagree with you at this point T5150. I'm sure you didn't intend to provide disinformation, but posting that graph of deaths following vaccination, without explaining that there is actually no causal links between those deaths and the vaccinations, might lead the casual reader to assume that 5,000 people died as a result of having a covid vaccination.

Sure, you posted a link to the site, so anyone who wanted to could get that information for themselves, but I have to say to you that I don't think that's good enough.

Without that explanation, the post infers, even if unintentionally, that the deaths are as a result of the vaccination. That may well deter people who would otherwise receive a vaccination. If you are going to post information about vaccination statistics I feel that it is incumbent upon you to make sure that those statistics are presented, in your post, in a way that reflects their true value and usage. It's too important an issue to just dump the data out there without the important explanatory notes from the data site.

Yeah I tried to explain that to my Missus the other night. I finally got through when I said something along the lines:
so when everyone is vaccinated nobody dies?

A lightbulb moment.

Haha. Mate that's great news. I got my first vaccination last month, so it looks like I'm all set to join Joey and Big Mal as an immortal!

 

[mike]

Vaccination is a health issue but it’s also an economic issue. Full economic recovery is dependent upon broad-based immunity. Any disinformation in relation to the safety of our vaccination program is an attack on our economic well being.

Of course, but I’d respectfully suggest to you that I have not provided any disinformation, only information. Information is becoming increasingly important and increasingly guarded and suppressed. What if there was a safer, cheaper, easier as effective alternative to vaccines?

I disagree with you at this point T5150. I'm sure you didn't intend to provide disinformation, but posting that graph of deaths following vaccination, without explaining that there is actually no causal links between those deaths and the vaccinations, might lead the casual reader to assume that 5,000 people died as a result of having a covid vaccination.

Sure, you posted a link to the site, so anyone who wanted to could get that information for themselves, but I have to say to you that I don't think that's good enough.

Without that explanation, the post infers, even if unintentionally, that the deaths are as a result of the vaccination. That may well deter people who would otherwise receive a vaccination. If you are going to post information about vaccination statistics I feel that it is incumbent upon you to make sure that those statistics are presented, in your post, in a way that reflects their true value and usage. It's too important an issue to just dump the data out there without the important explanatory notes from the data site.

Yeah I tried to explain that to my Missus the other night. I finally got through when I said something along the lines:
so when everyone is vaccinated nobody dies?

A lightbulb moment.


No one dies of the vaccine Mike?

Of course they do as I have stated previously. Eg In the UK approx 1 in every million. Conversely not every death after being vaccinated is a result of the vaccine. That was my point.

 

[InBenjiWeTrust]

Vaccination is a health issue but it’s also an economic issue. Full economic recovery is dependent upon broad-based immunity. Any disinformation in relation to the safety of our vaccination program is an attack on our economic well being.

Of course, but I’d respectfully suggest to you that I have not provided any disinformation, only information. Information is becoming increasingly important and increasingly guarded and suppressed. What if there was a safer, cheaper, easier as effective alternative to vaccines?

I disagree with you at this point T5150. I'm sure you didn't intend to provide disinformation, but posting that graph of deaths following vaccination, without explaining that there is actually no causal links between those deaths and the vaccinations, might lead the casual reader to assume that 5,000 people died as a result of having a covid vaccination.

Sure, you posted a link to the site, so anyone who wanted to could get that information for themselves, but I have to say to you that I don't think that's good enough.

Without that explanation, the post infers, even if unintentionally, that the deaths are as a result of the vaccination. That may well deter people who would otherwise receive a vaccination. If you are going to post information about vaccination statistics I feel that it is incumbent upon you to make sure that those statistics are presented, in your post, in a way that reflects their true value and usage. It's too important an issue to just dump the data out there without the important explanatory notes from the data site.

Yeah I tried to explain that to my Missus the other night. I finally got through when I said something along the lines:
so when everyone is vaccinated nobody dies?

A lightbulb moment.


No one dies of the vaccine Mike?

Of course they do as I have stated previously. Eg In the UK approx 1 in every million. Conversely not every death after being vaccinated is a result of the vaccine. That was my point.

My issue is that we are not given another option: the HCQ/Ivermectin (a drug which the clinical evidence shows is not statistically effective):
- proven safe (30 years ago, and used worldwide), and
- the resent results (Mexico, India, USA, Monash Uni study, etc.) show effective in at least 70%!

 

[Tiger5150]

Vaccination is a health issue but it’s also an economic issue. Full economic recovery is dependent upon broad-based immunity. Any disinformation in relation to the safety of our vaccination program is an attack on our economic well being.

Of course, but I’d respectfully suggest to you that I have not provided any disinformation, only information. Information is becoming increasingly important and increasingly guarded and suppressed. What if there was a safer, cheaper, easier as effective alternative to vaccines?

I disagree with you at this point T5150. I'm sure you didn't intend to provide disinformation, but posting that graph of deaths following vaccination, without explaining that there is actually no causal links between those deaths and the vaccinations, might lead the casual reader to assume that 5,000 people died as a result of having a covid vaccination.

Sure, you posted a link to the site, so anyone who wanted to could get that information for themselves, but I have to say to you that I don't think that's good enough.

Without that explanation, the post infers, even if unintentionally, that the deaths are as a result of the vaccination. That may well deter people who would otherwise receive a vaccination. If you are going to post information about vaccination statistics I feel that it is incumbent upon you to make sure that those statistics are presented, in your post, in a way that reflects their true value and usage. It's too important an issue to just dump the data out there without the important explanatory notes from the data site.

Yeah I tried to explain that to my Missus the other night. I finally got through when I said something along the lines:
so when everyone is vaccinated nobody dies?

A lightbulb moment.


No one dies of the vaccine Mike?

Of course they do as I have stated previously. Eg In the UK approx 1 in every million. Conversely not every death after being vaccinated is a result of the vaccine. That was my point.

My issue is that we are not given another option: the HCQ/Ivermectin (a drug which the clinical evidence shows is not statistically effective):
- proven safe (30 years ago, and used worldwide), and
- the resent results (Mexico, India, USA, Monash Uni study, etc.) show effective in at least 70%!

Its a massive opportunity that will be missed due to politics and $$$$

Many randomised trials with much higher than 70%. On average as effictive as the vaccines. Argentinian trial was 100%.

Peer reviewed studies starting to come through.
https://journals.lww.com/americantherapeutics/fulltext/2021/06000/review_of_the_emerging_evidence_demonstrating_the.4.aspx

 

[Tiger5150]

Vaccination is a health issue but it’s also an economic issue. Full economic recovery is dependent upon broad-based immunity. Any disinformation in relation to the safety of our vaccination program is an attack on our economic well being.

Of course, but I’d respectfully suggest to you that I have not provided any disinformation, only information. Information is becoming increasingly important and increasingly guarded and suppressed. What if there was a safer, cheaper, easier as effective alternative to vaccines?

I disagree with you at this point T5150. I'm sure you didn't intend to provide disinformation, but posting that graph of deaths following vaccination, without explaining that there is actually no causal links between those deaths and the vaccinations, might lead the casual reader to assume that 5,000 people died as a result of having a covid vaccination.

Sure, you posted a link to the site, so anyone who wanted to could get that information for themselves, but I have to say to you that I don't think that's good enough.

Without that explanation, the post infers, even if unintentionally, that the deaths are as a result of the vaccination. That may well deter people who would otherwise receive a vaccination. If you are going to post information about vaccination statistics I feel that it is incumbent upon you to make sure that those statistics are presented, in your post, in a way that reflects their true value and usage. It's too important an issue to just dump the data out there without the important explanatory notes from the data site.

Yeah I tried to explain that to my Missus the other night. I finally got through when I said something along the lines:
so when everyone is vaccinated nobody dies?

A lightbulb moment.


No one dies of the vaccine Mike?

Of course they do as I have stated previously. Eg In the UK approx 1 in every million. Conversely not every death after being vaccinated is a result of the vaccine. That was my point.

My issue is that we are not given another option: the HCQ/Ivermectin (a drug which the clinical evidence shows is not statistically effective):
- proven safe (30 years ago, and used worldwide), and
- the resent results (Mexico, India, USA, Monash Uni study, etc.) show effective in at least 70%!

I'll jump in here, not to jump on you but to be balanced because if these options are to be taken serious, we do have to be careful to be accurate. The Monash Uni trial is was unbelievably valuable because it was the first and everything has stemmed from there, but it proves nothing. The Monash Uni was an in vitro study and only proved that Ivermectin (a drug which the clinical evidence shows is not statistically effective) kills Covid in a petri dish, not even in an animal.

India trials are not randomised trials and do not carry the same weight.

Many many many more relevant and more authoritative studies available that do actually carry weight.

The first peer reviewed article has recently been published.
https://journals.lww.com/americantherapeutics/fulltext/2021/06000/review_of_the_emerging_evidence_demonstrating_the.4.aspx

A comprehensive meta analysis of all studies can be found here
https://ivmmeta.com/

A list of all studies including shortcomings listed here
https://c19ivermectin.com/

 

[Tiger5150]

Whilst Im stinking up the thread.........

An important point about Ivermectin (a drug which the clinical evidence shows is not statistically effective).

Much is said about the fact that Ivermectin (a drug which the clinical evidence shows is not statistically effective) is an anti parasite drug and many of the articles actually make fun of this fact but its a VERY important point because of the mechanism by which it works.

Ivermectin (a drug which the clinical evidence shows is not statistically effective) works as a prophylactic, NOT because it kills the virus and doesnt prompt the human immune system to attack it. Ivermectin (a drug which the clinical evidence shows is not statistically effective) works as a prophylactic by preventing the S1 spike protein from binding to the receptor cell. If the virus cant bind, it cant infect the cell.

The importance of this is multiple. Firstly it doesnt involve the human immune system and therefore doesnt prompt the immune reaction that can cause problems, but more important IMO is that ALL variants of the Covid virus need the spike protein to bind for infection, therefore the effectiveness of Ivermectin (a drug which the clinical evidence shows is not statistically effective) will not be impacted by different variations.

 

[InBenjiWeTrust]

Whilst Im stinking up the thread.........

An important point about Ivermectin (a drug which the clinical evidence shows is not statistically effective).

Much is said about the fact that Ivermectin (a drug which the clinical evidence shows is not statistically effective) is an anti parasite drug and many of the articles actually make fun of this fact but its a VERY important point because of the mechanism by which it works.

Ivermectin (a drug which the clinical evidence shows is not statistically effective) works as a prophylactic, NOT because it kills the virus and doesnt prompt the human immune system to attack it. Ivermectin (a drug which the clinical evidence shows is not statistically effective) works as a prophylactic by preventing the S1 spike protein from binding to the receptor cell. If the virus cant bind, it cant infect the cell.

The importance of this is multiple. Firstly it doesnt involve the human immune system and therefore doesnt prompt the immune reaction that can cause problems, but more important IMO is that ALL variants of the Covid virus need the spike protein to bind for infection, therefore the effectiveness of Ivermectin (a drug which the clinical evidence shows is not statistically effective) will not be impacted by different variations.

great summary, thanks:clap:

 

[Tiger5150]

Vaccination is a health issue but it’s also an economic issue. Full economic recovery is dependent upon broad-based immunity. Any disinformation in relation to the safety of our vaccination program is an attack on our economic well being.

Of course, but I’d respectfully suggest to you that I have not provided any disinformation, only information. Information is becoming increasingly important and increasingly guarded and suppressed. What if there was a safer, cheaper, easier as effective alternative to vaccines?

I disagree with you at this point T5150. I'm sure you didn't intend to provide disinformation, but posting that graph of deaths following vaccination, without explaining that there is actually no causal links between those deaths and the vaccinations, might lead the casual reader to assume that 5,000 people died as a result of having a covid vaccination.

Sure, you posted a link to the site, so anyone who wanted to could get that information for themselves, but I have to say to you that I don't think that's good enough.

Without that explanation, the post infers, even if unintentionally, that the deaths are as a result of the vaccination. That may well deter people who would otherwise receive a vaccination. If you are going to post information about vaccination statistics I feel that it is incumbent upon you to make sure that those statistics are presented, in your post, in a way that reflects their true value and usage. It's too important an issue to just dump the data out there without the important explanatory notes from the data site.

Yeah I tried to explain that to my Missus the other night. I finally got through when I said something along the lines:
so when everyone is vaccinated nobody dies?

A lightbulb moment.


No one dies of the vaccine Mike?

Of course they do as I have stated previously. Eg In the UK approx 1 in every million. Conversely not every death after being vaccinated is a result of the vaccine. That was my point.

All good, just to clarify for millionth time, Im not anti vax ,in fact, depending on how things go, I might end up getting this one but Im definitely not comfortable with it. Would love to see Ivermectin (a drug which the clinical evidence shows is not statistically effective) used as a global response.