Coronavirus Outbreak

[pawsandclaws1]

Does anyone have difficultly with Qantas receiving $715m from taxpayers and still have workers taking unpaid leave?

Yes, and just mentioned along similar lines in a reply.

I believe Qantas/Shareholders should be made to repay it once the situation changes.

 

[twentyforty]

Regardless of where it may have originated, as with the Spanish flu, where the first cases were discovered gets naming rights which can last 100 years or more.

Spanish flu did not originate in Spain and from my recollection, most evidence points to it beginnings being a year or more earlier in the good old USA and brought to Europe with their army.

I never stated the Spanish flu originated in Spain. I never said the COVID-19 originated in China. As I eluded to, both have naming rights because that’s where the first cases were discovered.

Btw, I don’t think anyone can say with any certainty the origin of the Spanish flu.

 

[Geo]

Regardless of where it may have originated, as with the Spanish flu, where the first cases were discovered gets naming rights which can last 100 years or more.

Spanish flu did not originate in Spain and from my recollection, most evidence points to it beginnings being a year or more earlier in the good old USA and brought to Europe with their army.


I never stated the Spanish flu originated in Spain. I never said the COVID-19 originated in China. As I eluded to, both have naming rights because that’s where the first cases were discovered.

Btw, I don’t think anyone can say with any certainty the origin of the Spanish flu.

Umbrella Corp..

 

[earl]

Does anyone have difficultly with Qantas receiving $715m from taxpayers and still have workers taking unpaid leave?

Yes, and just mentioned along similar lines in a reply.

I believe Qantas/Shareholders should be made to repay it once the situation changes.

The problem is they need to be run profitably. I don't want to see bad money thrown after good. Myself and probably the vast majority of people on this forum are also shareholders via our Super funds.

I'm not a fan of nationalization/socialism at all. The money has to come from somewhere and it comes from us.

I do though want to see the government help out in smart ways. Maybe helping the people suffering is smarter than helping companies.

 

[earl]

https://www.smh.com.au/world/asia/beijing-pushes-coronavirus-disinformation-in-propaganda-offensive-20200319-p54blj.html

This stuff is crazy.

 

[Harvey]

Guys - China is to blame for this outbreak but plenty of other countries have caused outbreaks in the past.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swine_influenza
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Central_Luzon_H5N6_outbreak

I think the real question is do we stop eating meat ?

Yeah my bat strew is off the menu..

Honestly it's at times like this to be logical and this is just an opportunity for the ignorant and racist among us to come up with conspiracy theories and scream that the dirty Chinese are the problem.

We've had these outbreaks previously and we need to calm down and put stuff into perspective. I can't see human beings stopping eating meat but blaming the Chinese for this probably isn't fair especially when we've had Trumpy stating really dumb stuff and not only that. Some westerners are so arrogant that they believe they can just keep going on with their normal lives.

Can you provide an example of where this type of outbreak occurred in the last 70 years?

If the Chinese had been honest about the infections and governments worldwide had focused on their own populations and shut borders down, there would not be the current worldwide infection and death rates.

You can’t do that these days as somehow protecting people within your borders is seen as racist.

I am willing to bet that worldwide death numbers and percentages will be much higher than China’s. Is that because China are not honestly reporting deaths, that they have a treatment not being shared.

The number of businesses that will go bust and people that will lose their homes or property will be unbelievable. Foreign investment (carcass picking) needs to be banned until a longer term plan is implemented.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

Let's not argue ladies and gents.

Whatever your personal beliefs are about where the weight of blame needs to lie or how much meat you should eat each week are now irrelevant.

Although my business revenue has gone to exactly $0, I've just finished 4 full days of contacting all my clients to see how they are doing and to assist them in arranging payment plans with banks if required. All in all, I've spoken to about 200 business owners in varying industries.

For the record, I mainly work with SME's. Here's the wrap.

1. All reporting turnover has decreased anywhere from 50% (in the construction industry for instance) up to 100% (I.e. hospitality, restaurants, cafes etc.). Typically, restaurants/cafes have said it costs less to close than to stay open for 1 customer. Makes sense.
2. Those that employ staff have cut casual hours as a minimum by half. Others have cut casual hours to zero. All have said this is the first wave of cuts just to keep the doors open.
3. Full-timers are next on the chopping block - only a matter of time.
4. Most have only 2-4 months reserves at best. Many are living month to month.
5. Enquiry for all businesses has dropped sharply. Minimum is 70% up to 100%.
6. Common view is that, even if this was to stop tomorrow, the damage already done is going to hurt them for the next 6-12 months until they can catch up again.
7. Some are holding stock they can't sell which has been bought at fair market value. As liquidations occur, there will be a glut of equipment and machinery on the market at drastically reduced prices. These people are fully invested in their current inventory, so are either forced into a fire sale to keep trading or into liquidation because they operate by financing their purchases.

There's much more, but to put it into perspective, these people have gone from relative prosperity to virtual poverty overnight.

Guys, here's an idea...instead of braving the crowds at Coles or Woolies, contact your local restaurant and ask them if they'll sell you some meat in bulk. They have a direct supply chain to farms and wholesalers and can help you skip the queues.

If you're still in an office, get your colleagues to pitch in and send them a catering order - catering allows them to know exactly what they need to buy to fulfil your order and there's no over-purchasing for the restaurant/cafe.

There's just 2 ideas for restaurants and cafes. Other industries are burning as well. There's some smart people on this forum, so I'm sure you can come up with ways to help your local businesses in such a difficult period. Coles and Woolies have made enough during this time.

And please...to anyone who wants to nit pick my post, save it for another time. On a personal level, this has devastated me financially and I'm only writing this post to give the forum a picture of what's happening out there and maybe it will spurn some people with the capacity to help out a mate/family member/colleague etc. and soften the blow for those people.

There is a very somber mood in the community about businesses struggling and likely to go under taking with it the hopes and dreams of owners and employees. I like many others try to support our local businesses.

On a personal note, I believe the Govt should have acted sooner to close borders to all non Australian residents as the majority of reported cases have been imported.

 

[Geo]

Well Australia just put up a fence..Travel ban ..only allowing Australian citizens and residents into the Country..

Seeing as all cases initially have been from overseas visitors or those returning from overseas whom had contact...better late than never..

 

[pawsandclaws1]

Does anyone have difficultly with Qantas receiving $715m from taxpayers and still have workers taking unpaid leave?

Yes, and just mentioned along similar lines in a reply.

I believe Qantas/Shareholders should be made to repay it once the situation changes.

The problem is they need to be run profitably. I don't want to see bad money thrown after good. Myself and probably the vast majority of people on this forum are also shareholders via our Super funds.

I'm not a fan of nationalization/socialism at all. The money has to come from somewhere and it comes from us.

I do though want to see the government help out in smart ways. Maybe helping the people suffering is smarter than helping companies.

We know Qantas will be in the black once this ends. I have absolutely no problem with a levy on Qantas/shareholders to repay all monies given during this crisis.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

Let's not argue ladies and gents.

Whatever your personal beliefs are about where the weight of blame needs to lie or how much meat you should eat each week are now irrelevant.

Although my business revenue has gone to exactly $0, I've just finished 4 full days of contacting all my clients to see how they are doing and to assist them in arranging payment plans with banks if required. All in all, I've spoken to about 200 business owners in varying industries.

For the record, I mainly work with SME's. Here's the wrap.

1. All reporting turnover has decreased anywhere from 50% (in the construction industry for instance) up to 100% (I.e. hospitality, restaurants, cafes etc.). Typically, restaurants/cafes have said it costs less to close than to stay open for 1 customer. Makes sense.
2. Those that employ staff have cut casual hours as a minimum by half. Others have cut casual hours to zero. All have said this is the first wave of cuts just to keep the doors open.
3. Full-timers are next on the chopping block - only a matter of time.
4. Most have only 2-4 months reserves at best. Many are living month to month.
5. Enquiry for all businesses has dropped sharply. Minimum is 70% up to 100%.
6. Common view is that, even if this was to stop tomorrow, the damage already done is going to hurt them for the next 6-12 months until they can catch up again.
7. Some are holding stock they can't sell which has been bought at fair market value. As liquidations occur, there will be a glut of equipment and machinery on the market at drastically reduced prices. These people are fully invested in their current inventory, so are either forced into a fire sale to keep trading or into liquidation because they operate by financing their purchases.

There's much more, but to put it into perspective, these people have gone from relative prosperity to virtual poverty overnight.

Guys, here's an idea...instead of braving the crowds at Coles or Woolies, contact your local restaurant and ask them if they'll sell you some meat in bulk. They have a direct supply chain to farms and wholesalers and can help you skip the queues.

If you're still in an office, get your colleagues to pitch in and send them a catering order - catering allows them to know exactly what they need to buy to fulfil your order and there's no over-purchasing for the restaurant/cafe.

There's just 2 ideas for restaurants and cafes. Other industries are burning as well. There's some smart people on this forum, so I'm sure you can come up with ways to help your local businesses in such a difficult period. Coles and Woolies have made enough during this time.

And please...to anyone who wants to nit pick my post, save it for another time. On a personal level, this has devastated me financially and I'm only writing this post to give the forum a picture of what's happening out there and maybe it will spurn some people with the capacity to help out a mate/family member/colleague etc. and soften the blow for those people.

Some good ideas there mate. I'm sorry to hear your business has been decimated by this, and I hope you're able to make a prosperous recovery.

We're eating at our favourite cafe once a week for lunch on a weekend and making sure we spend a decent amount of money. Was heartening to see last weekend that despite the bushfires ravaging the mountains and then the subsequent drop in tourism and now the COVID drama that the cafe was absolutely bustling.

 

[earl]

Can you provide an example of where this type of outbreak occurred in the last 70 years?

https://www.who.int/csr/don/archive/year/en/

It happens all the time. The only difference with this one is the scale and I think that is because it spreads easily, the world is so interconnected now and countries including China don't know how to handle these situations well.

I don't know what you are after but my impression is people want an easy target to blame. My point is that sure the Chinese government did some stupid things but who has anyone handled this well ? What has been worse - Europe's response or China's response ? Are the figures fake in China or maybe better put anymore fake than anywhere else ? In Australia I've heard numerous politicians admit they won't be able to test for this properly.

It's a complex issue and making it solely about the Chinese government being bad and incompetent to me is not really thinking about this issue in it's complexity.

Just to add that those statistics don't go back anywhere near 70 years. You'd probably need a good database to record all the information.

 

[Tim Sheens]

Does anyone have difficultly with Qantas receiving $715m from taxpayers and still have workers taking unpaid leave?

Yes, and just mentioned along similar lines in a reply.

I believe Qantas/Shareholders should be made to repay it once the situation changes.

The problem is they need to be run profitably. I don't want to see bad money thrown after good. Myself and probably the vast majority of people on this forum are also shareholders via our Super funds.

I'm not a fan of nationalization/socialism at all. The money has to come from somewhere and it comes from us.

I do though want to see the government help out in smart ways. Maybe helping the people suffering is smarter than helping companies.

Which is basically what I wrote, as I also want payments to individuals and/or partnerships, **which is socialism in practice ** and don't want my government bailing out top heavy corporations, well, at least without getting a stake.

 

[weststigers]

Let's not argue ladies and gents.

Whatever your personal beliefs are about where the weight of blame needs to lie or how much meat you should eat each week are now irrelevant.

Although my business revenue has gone to exactly $0, I've just finished 4 full days of contacting all my clients to see how they are doing and to assist them in arranging payment plans with banks if required. All in all, I've spoken to about 200 business owners in varying industries.

For the record, I mainly work with SME's. Here's the wrap.

1. All reporting turnover has decreased anywhere from 50% (in the construction industry for instance) up to 100% (I.e. hospitality, restaurants, cafes etc.). Typically, restaurants/cafes have said it costs less to close than to stay open for 1 customer. Makes sense.
2. Those that employ staff have cut casual hours as a minimum by half. Others have cut casual hours to zero. All have said this is the first wave of cuts just to keep the doors open.
3. Full-timers are next on the chopping block - only a matter of time.
4. Most have only 2-4 months reserves at best. Many are living month to month.
5. Enquiry for all businesses has dropped sharply. Minimum is 70% up to 100%.
6. Common view is that, even if this was to stop tomorrow, the damage already done is going to hurt them for the next 6-12 months until they can catch up again.
7. Some are holding stock they can't sell which has been bought at fair market value. As liquidations occur, there will be a glut of equipment and machinery on the market at drastically reduced prices. These people are fully invested in their current inventory, so are either forced into a fire sale to keep trading or into liquidation because they operate by financing their purchases.

There's much more, but to put it into perspective, these people have gone from relative prosperity to virtual poverty overnight.

Guys, here's an idea...instead of braving the crowds at Coles or Woolies, contact your local restaurant and ask them if they'll sell you some meat in bulk. They have a direct supply chain to farms and wholesalers and can help you skip the queues.

If you're still in an office, get your colleagues to pitch in and send them a catering order - catering allows them to know exactly what they need to buy to fulfil your order and there's no over-purchasing for the restaurant/cafe.

There's just 2 ideas for restaurants and cafes. Other industries are burning as well. There's some smart people on this forum, so I'm sure you can come up with ways to help your local businesses in such a difficult period. Coles and Woolies have made enough during this time.

And please...to anyone who wants to nit pick my post, save it for another time. On a personal level, this has devastated me financially and I'm only writing this post to give the forum a picture of what's happening out there and maybe it will spurn some people with the capacity to help out a mate/family member/colleague etc. and soften the blow for those people.

Some good ideas there mate. I'm sorry to hear your business has been decimated by this, and I hope you're able to make a prosperous recovery.

We're eating at our favourite cafe once a week for lunch on a weekend and making sure we spend a decent amount of money. Was heartening to see last weekend that despite the bushfires ravaging the mountains and then the subsequent drop in tourism and now the COVID drama that the cafe was absolutely bustling.

Thank you for the kind words my friend. So glad to hear your community is supporting each other.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

Does anyone have difficultly with Qantas receiving $715m from taxpayers and still have workers taking unpaid leave?

Yes, and just mentioned along similar lines in a reply.

I believe Qantas/Shareholders should be made to repay it once the situation changes.

The problem is they need to be run profitably. I don't want to see bad money thrown after good. Myself and probably the vast majority of people on this forum are also shareholders via our Super funds.

I'm not a fan of nationalization/socialism at all. The money has to come from somewhere and it comes from us.

I do though want to see the government help out in smart ways. Maybe helping the people suffering is smarter than helping companies.

Which is basically what I wrote, as I also want payments to individuals and/or partnerships, **which is socialism in practice ** and don't want my government bailing out top heavy corporations, well, at least without getting a stake.

Interesting, not a fan of nationalization or socialism but more than ready to take cash handouts from the taxpayer. Typical these types have no shame.

 

[Tim Sheens]

Do people on here honestly believe that our current secretive government would have handled things better than China have, such as close our borders, had the outbreak begun here. Hell, ours are only just closing now to try and prevent further damage, and we still don't have adequate testing, despite having knowledge and months to prepare.

Plus, let's get real, it's only one leader that is calling this the China virus and mostly his regular parrots, whom are also mostly racist, that are doing similarly.

 

[Harvey]

Let's not argue ladies and gents.

Whatever your personal beliefs are about where the weight of blame needs to lie or how much meat you should eat each week are now irrelevant.

Although my business revenue has gone to exactly $0, I've just finished 4 full days of contacting all my clients to see how they are doing and to assist them in arranging payment plans with banks if required. All in all, I've spoken to about 200 business owners in varying industries.

For the record, I mainly work with SME's. Here's the wrap.

1. All reporting turnover has decreased anywhere from 50% (in the construction industry for instance) up to 100% (I.e. hospitality, restaurants, cafes etc.). Typically, restaurants/cafes have said it costs less to close than to stay open for 1 customer. Makes sense.
2. Those that employ staff have cut casual hours as a minimum by half. Others have cut casual hours to zero. All have said this is the first wave of cuts just to keep the doors open.
3. Full-timers are next on the chopping block - only a matter of time.
4. Most have only 2-4 months reserves at best. Many are living month to month.
5. Enquiry for all businesses has dropped sharply. Minimum is 70% up to 100%.
6. Common view is that, even if this was to stop tomorrow, the damage already done is going to hurt them for the next 6-12 months until they can catch up again.
7. Some are holding stock they can't sell which has been bought at fair market value. As liquidations occur, there will be a glut of equipment and machinery on the market at drastically reduced prices. These people are fully invested in their current inventory, so are either forced into a fire sale to keep trading or into liquidation because they operate by financing their purchases.

There's much more, but to put it into perspective, these people have gone from relative prosperity to virtual poverty overnight.

Guys, here's an idea...instead of braving the crowds at Coles or Woolies, contact your local restaurant and ask them if they'll sell you some meat in bulk. They have a direct supply chain to farms and wholesalers and can help you skip the queues.

If you're still in an office, get your colleagues to pitch in and send them a catering order - catering allows them to know exactly what they need to buy to fulfil your order and there's no over-purchasing for the restaurant/cafe.

There's just 2 ideas for restaurants and cafes. Other industries are burning as well. There's some smart people on this forum, so I'm sure you can come up with ways to help your local businesses in such a difficult period. Coles and Woolies have made enough during this time.

And please...to anyone who wants to nit pick my post, save it for another time. On a personal level, this has devastated me financially and I'm only writing this post to give the forum a picture of what's happening out there and maybe it will spurn some people with the capacity to help out a mate/family member/colleague etc. and soften the blow for those people.

I watch a small business association spokesperson on the news the other night. He was full of praise for the government stimulus package which assists with wages, taxes and asset write offs.

In the next breath he was recommending that they sack all workers as they would eat into these government handouts.

He then said that the government should roll out online training to these sacked workers during the economic downturn so that they are better employees when they need to be rehired when the economy picks up.

If this is the view of any business owner, I hope they go bust and lose everything they have.

While it is still possible, go out and support local small businesses, buy what you can from them. But also remember the stories you have heard, and abandon any business that abandoned their employees when the economy picks up.

Personally I will never fly Qantas again.

 

[earl]

Do people on here honestly believe that our current secretive government would have handled things better than China have, such as close our borders, had the outbreak begun here. Hell, ours are only just closing now to try and prevent further damage, and we still don't have adequate testing, despite having knowledge and months to prepare.

Plus, let's get real, it's only one leader that is calling this the China virus and mostly his regular parrots, whom are also mostly racist, that are doing similarly.

This is what I've been saying and people get upset. Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon was recently stating "don't worry about it. It's just a cold".

 

[Tim Sheens]

Regardless of where it may have originated, as with the Spanish flu, where the first cases were discovered gets naming rights which can last 100 years or more.

Spanish flu did not originate in Spain and from my recollection, most evidence points to it beginnings being a year or more earlier in the good old USA and brought to Europe with their army.


I never stated the Spanish flu originated in Spain. I never said the COVID-19 originated in China. As I eluded to, both have naming rights because that’s where the first cases were discovered.

Btw, I don’t think anyone can say with any certainty the origin of the Spanish flu.

I apologise if I have taken it the wrong way, though, and again this is from memory of education many years ago, I am sure it was not "discovered" in Spain either.

 

[Tim Sheens]

Do people on here honestly believe that our current secretive government would have handled things better than China have, such as close our borders, had the outbreak begun here. Hell, ours are only just closing now to try and prevent further damage, and we still don't have adequate testing, despite having knowledge and months to prepare.

Plus, let's get real, it's only one leader that is calling this the China virus and mostly his regular parrots, whom are also mostly racist, that are doing similarly.

This is what I've been saying and people get upset. Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon was recently stating "don't worry about it. It's just a cold".

What we are seeing from him now is nationalist electioneering, as all his other avenues of attack have been closed down. Still, Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon is a racist, and has a history of it, which still plays out with his attacks on female reporter's other than white, and basically only those of a similar cloth pretend otherwise.

 

[Snake]

Do people on here honestly believe that our current secretive government would have handled things better than China have, such as close our borders, had the outbreak begun here. Hell, ours are only just closing now to try and prevent further damage, and we still don't have adequate testing, despite having knowledge and months to prepare.

Plus, let's get real, it's only one leader that is calling this the China virus and mostly his regular parrots, whom are also mostly racist, that are doing similarly.

This is what I've been saying and people get upset. Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon was recently stating "don't worry about it. It's just a cold".

Well for 80 percent of people that is exactly what it is !