@tigger said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1373187) said:
@tiger5150 said in [Coronavirus Outbreak](/post/1373156) said:
Totally agree that Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon is the reason that it was dismissed originally. Equally a problem with Ivermectin (a drug which the clinical evidence shows is not statistically effective) which is potentially a bigger travesty.
There are other reasons however why it was dismissed, other than Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon. The person that WHO sent to investigate the lab is Peter Daszak. He (his company) was paid $40M by the US govt to conduct gain of function research on coronavirus in the BSL4 WIV Lab in Wuhan. Hardly impartial. Dr Fauci was responsible for overturning a US ban on Gain of function virus research. Not in his interest if that is the reason for the worlds pain.
There is a large amount of scientific evidence that it came from the lab, predominantly revolving around the rate of evolution of the virus (gain of function) but I agree there is no “smoking gun” and there never will be because the Chinese and those in the west with skin in the game (there are many now) will not allow it.
So, these are ***in fact*** conspiracy theories. That's not to say that they are untrue. Conspiracies do happen. In some cases individuals also act independently of each other, but for entirely self-serving reasons, with much the same outcome as if they were conspiring.
What makes the hypothesis that the virus started in the WIV lab in Wuhan a conspiracy theory? Serious question. More evidence points to this than the "natural" zoonotic hypothesis. Serious question, why is it a "conspiracy theory"?
I haven't checked the veracity of your comments about Peter Dazak and Dr Fauci, but I'm willing to accept that things are as you have stated.
If you could be bothered, I laid out a heap of evidence way earlier in this thread regarding Peter Daszak and Dr Fauci. Its not conspiratorial or "fake news". THese are open facts, widely reported. Here are some quick things I was able dig up....
https://www.independentsciencenews.org/news/peter-daszaks-ecohealth-alliance-has-hidden-almost-40-million-in-pentagon-funding/
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/04/29/847948272/why-the-u-s-government-stopped-funding-a-research-project-on-bats-and-coronaviru
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CHRG-112shrg75273/html/CHRG-112shrg75273.htm
>The point that I would like to make is that most conspiracy theories fail when people try to use those theories as evidence in themselves. If everything that you say about Dazak and Fauci is 100% correct, the only assumption we should make is that their comments, dismissing the lab leak theory, may be tainted by ulterior motives.
100% and I dont think I have suggested otherwise. It is embarassingly inept for the WHO to appoint Peter Daszak responsible to investigate the lab the he needs to do research that he got paid $40M for, in exactly the gain of function research that would be responsible for the outbreak. The conflict of interest is unbelievable and the ulterior motives are enormous. As a result you cant believe a thing that the WHO says on the issue.
We don't know that their comments are tainted. Despite the circumstances they might legitimately believe that there was no lab leak. But we're entitled to view their comments with caution and to keep an open mind about the evidence.
What we are not entitled to do is present the possibility of the views of these people being compromised as some sort of proof in itself that a lab leak must have occurred. That, to me, would be a very illogical thought process.
This is going to sound very condescending, but noone seems to understand what science actually is (Ive been involved in a science based profession with Science degrees all my professional career). Science isnt what a scientist says. If 5, 20, 10K scientists say something, that is not "the science". The latest catchcry of "follow the science" does my head in.
Science isnt the opinion of a bloke in a white coat (they will all be different at some point). Science is a process.
The scientific process is a definition. First a hypothesis is put forward. Based on some evidence, someone hypothesises something. Then peers attempt to falsify the hypothesis. What you get is a series of hypothesis that conflict but as you attempt to falsify them, one will remain as unfalsified and that one becomes the theory.
At present there are a few hypothesis regarding the origin of COVID. The zoonotic theory and the lab leak theory are I think the leading ones. The major falsification of the zoonotic theory is that there are many missing evolutionary stages missing in this theory. A virus has to evolve to become catchable for humans (short evolution) and then readily transmissible by humans (long evolution) for this to be the case there would have had to have been a hidden population somewhere where the virus spread for a long time for it to evolve to the point where it was so readily transmissible by humans and there is simply no evidence that this was the case (would be easy to detect with the rate of illness & death). They also have not found the carrier animal yet, a year later. SARS1 they found the bat responsible very quickly (ironically by the WIV lab in Wuhan).
Meanwhile they were carrying out gain of function research on bat coronaviruses at the BSL4 WIV lab in Wuhan.
Science is a process. There is no smoking gun and is unlikely to be. To be honest, I am surprised that the Chinese havent come out and said "oh by the way we found this bat riddles with it".
