Coronavirus Outbreak

[earl]

LOCK AUSTRALIA DOWN. Forget about the vaccinations and wait until we have a safe and approved vaccination until we consider reopening the country. The government pushing this lab rat vaccination agenda is an absolute disgrace.

Back to reality.

1. You can't shut the country down completely.
2. We vaccinate. We let it rip. People will die but it will save the vast majority of people. The ones who choose not to vaccinate will suffer from this much more than they need too but that is the cost of letting people make their own decisions.

It would have been good to have some special quarantine facility but the reality is we've kept it until control up until the home run and it's only the delta strain that is really giving it to us. I think by Christmas we will probably be in the let it rip phase.

Unfortunately, it’s this mentality of what reality should be is what I shake my head at. You’re literally saying you’re accepting people to die from this when it doesn’t have to be that way at all.

It actually does. You don't have a choice. Do we stop everyone from talking to each other to stop people dying from the flu ? Do we still drive cars ? Do we still fly in planes ?

Reality. You can't avoid it. People die. It sucks.

Get vaccinated. Don't eat too much meat and junk food. Exercise. Don't smoke. Put the odds in your favor.

That is all you get in this life.

“You don’t have a choice” We all have choices and a voice. People flock to much around an accepted version of what reality is. Look at the protesting overseas, people have had enough of their “reality”

The fact is though, Australia can stay safe from this virus for years if we have to. Simply by closing our borders and only reopening them once there is a safe and approved vaccine.

We’re basically doing it now, but just a band aid version.

There is no way we could stay locked down for years. It would be a disaster. You also didn't state what we should do about the flu and poor diet and smoking and cars and planes and millions of other things.

It isn’t a disaster already? What you see in the UK, India, US, etc isn’t a disaster? Australia will be no different if we keep the current path. A vaccine with side affects isn’t the answer either.

I didn’t mention anything about what else you said because it was just stupid and nothing to do with what we’re discussing.

Just answer me this? Is Australia impacted more by closing the international border permanently until there’s an approved and safe vaccine, which secured the safety of the majority or by vaccinating as many who choose and letting the virus in completely or living with a lockdown style nation for the next few decades?

That’s the 2 options I see Australia living with?

***Every*** medicine comes with side effects. Contraceptive pills have a risk of stroke. Warfarin can cause liver problems, Sotalol increases your LDL cholesterol. Got a headache? Don't take paracetemol, they can cause liver complications and create bleed risks. Everyday people take medication without questioning the risks of it.

The flu vaccination has side effects. Tetanus shots, triple antigen boosters, whooping cough vaccines. Why is it all of a sudden a problem with the COVID vaccines? The medical experts are all still saying get vaccinated. There is obviously overwhelming evidence to support that being vaccinated is overwhelmingly better than contracting COVID without any immunity, especially now that the virus has mutated to the point where it is no longer just picking off the infirm and elderly. It's making younger people sick. They are ending up in the ICU.

The general scientific consensus is that the vaccines are safe. We have someone on this forum whose specialty is in drug analysis and they are saying there's nothing to indicate that the vaccines are any more dangerous than any other vaccine.

What are the stats for severe illness and death from the ones you’ve mentioned? That’s why people are questioning the covid vaccine compared to others. I’m not an anti-vaxxer by any stretch. But I just don’t think the current options are worth the risk and an temporary emergency approval doesn’t cut it.

My argument here isn’t necessarily about a vaccine. My argument is that we should protect our country (even if it means completely blocking overseas/return travel) until proper testing on a vaccine is completed. Then by all means encourage the jab and reopen the country. I’m just astounded by the impatience of people to have international borders reopened. IMO there’s just alternative ways of managing this virus that overall will save more Australians whether it be from covid itself, or potential side affects from the current vaccinations available.

In regards to the general scientific consensus, the facts of the large number of adverse and deadly reactions goes against that. So we can disagree both ways on that.

The clot risks from contraceptives are higher than that of the AZ vaccine. Clot risk is 1 in 1,000 women, versus 1 in 250,000 from the AZ vaccine.

Complications from Warfarin are well known. Brain bleeds, gastrointestinal bleeding, bloody urine, hepatic failure, stomach ulcers. I've had gastrointestinal bleeding and blood in my urine previously.

Not sure on the figures regarding flu vaccines etc. Would have to do some searching for that.

I do however also agree that opening international borders is ludicrous at this point.

There’s been over a million adverse reactions to the vaccines already and 12000 deaths in a 6 month period in the states with the majority linked to vaccines.

Where do you get your data from ?

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

LOCK AUSTRALIA DOWN. Forget about the vaccinations and wait until we have a safe and approved vaccination until we consider reopening the country. The government pushing this lab rat vaccination agenda is an absolute disgrace.

Back to reality.

1. You can't shut the country down completely.
2. We vaccinate. We let it rip. People will die but it will save the vast majority of people. The ones who choose not to vaccinate will suffer from this much more than they need too but that is the cost of letting people make their own decisions.

It would have been good to have some special quarantine facility but the reality is we've kept it until control up until the home run and it's only the delta strain that is really giving it to us. I think by Christmas we will probably be in the let it rip phase.

Unfortunately, it’s this mentality of what reality should be is what I shake my head at. You’re literally saying you’re accepting people to die from this when it doesn’t have to be that way at all.

It actually does. You don't have a choice. Do we stop everyone from talking to each other to stop people dying from the flu ? Do we still drive cars ? Do we still fly in planes ?

Reality. You can't avoid it. People die. It sucks.

Get vaccinated. Don't eat too much meat and junk food. Exercise. Don't smoke. Put the odds in your favor.

That is all you get in this life.

“You don’t have a choice” We all have choices and a voice. People flock to much around an accepted version of what reality is. Look at the protesting overseas, people have had enough of their “reality”

The fact is though, Australia can stay safe from this virus for years if we have to. Simply by closing our borders and only reopening them once there is a safe and approved vaccine.

We’re basically doing it now, but just a band aid version.

There is no way we could stay locked down for years. It would be a disaster. You also didn't state what we should do about the flu and poor diet and smoking and cars and planes and millions of other things.

It isn’t a disaster already? What you see in the UK, India, US, etc isn’t a disaster? Australia will be no different if we keep the current path. A vaccine with side affects isn’t the answer either.

I didn’t mention anything about what else you said because it was just stupid and nothing to do with what we’re discussing.

Just answer me this? Is Australia impacted more by closing the international border permanently until there’s an approved and safe vaccine, which secured the safety of the majority or by vaccinating as many who choose and letting the virus in completely or living with a lockdown style nation for the next few decades?

That’s the 2 options I see Australia living with?

***Every*** medicine comes with side effects. Contraceptive pills have a risk of stroke. Warfarin can cause liver problems, Sotalol increases your LDL cholesterol. Got a headache? Don't take paracetemol, they can cause liver complications and create bleed risks. Everyday people take medication without questioning the risks of it.

The flu vaccination has side effects. Tetanus shots, triple antigen boosters, whooping cough vaccines. Why is it all of a sudden a problem with the COVID vaccines? The medical experts are all still saying get vaccinated. There is obviously overwhelming evidence to support that being vaccinated is overwhelmingly better than contracting COVID without any immunity, especially now that the virus has mutated to the point where it is no longer just picking off the infirm and elderly. It's making younger people sick. They are ending up in the ICU.

The general scientific consensus is that the vaccines are safe. We have someone on this forum whose specialty is in drug analysis and they are saying there's nothing to indicate that the vaccines are any more dangerous than any other vaccine.

What are the stats for severe illness and death from the ones you’ve mentioned? That’s why people are questioning the covid vaccine compared to others. I’m not an anti-vaxxer by any stretch. But I just don’t think the current options are worth the risk and an temporary emergency approval doesn’t cut it.

My argument here isn’t necessarily about a vaccine. My argument is that we should protect our country (even if it means completely blocking overseas/return travel) until proper testing on a vaccine is completed. Then by all means encourage the jab and reopen the country. I’m just astounded by the impatience of people to have international borders reopened. IMO there’s just alternative ways of managing this virus that overall will save more Australians whether it be from covid itself, or potential side affects from the current vaccinations available.

In regards to the general scientific consensus, the facts of the large number of adverse and deadly reactions goes against that. So we can disagree both ways on that.

The clot risks from contraceptives are higher than that of the AZ vaccine. Clot risk is 1 in 1,000 women, versus 1 in 250,000 from the AZ vaccine.

Complications from Warfarin are well known. Brain bleeds, gastrointestinal bleeding, bloody urine, hepatic failure, stomach ulcers. I've had gastrointestinal bleeding and blood in my urine previously.

Not sure on the figures regarding flu vaccines etc. Would have to do some searching for that.

I do however also agree that opening international borders is ludicrous at this point.

There’s been over a million adverse reactions to the vaccines already and 12000 deaths in a 6 month period in the states with the majority linked to vaccines.

If you could send the links to those I'd appreciate it.

 

[tigger]

We'll get to a point where everyone who can have the vaccination will have been offered it.
At that stage, I believe, lockdowns and other restrictions will cease. The trigger for that is more likely to be vaccine availability than vaccine take up.

Most people will have the vaccine. Some will not. Darwin's theory of natural selection will kick in.

The only people I have sympathy for are those who, for medical reasons are unable to avail themselves of the vaccines.

 

[earl]

The only people I have sympathy for are those who, for medical reasons are unable to avail themselves of the vaccines.

I get where you are coming from. I was going to up vote your post but I didn't. People will die when they don't need too. I reckon it's really bad.

There is no other option though.

 

[Yossarian]

LOCK AUSTRALIA DOWN. Forget about the vaccinations and wait until we have a safe and approved vaccination until we consider reopening the country. The government pushing this lab rat vaccination agenda is an absolute disgrace.

Back to reality.

1. You can't shut the country down completely.
2. We vaccinate. We let it rip. People will die but it will save the vast majority of people. The ones who choose not to vaccinate will suffer from this much more than they need too but that is the cost of letting people make their own decisions.

It would have been good to have some special quarantine facility but the reality is we've kept it until control up until the home run and it's only the delta strain that is really giving it to us. I think by Christmas we will probably be in the let it rip phase.

Unfortunately, it’s this mentality of what reality should be is what I shake my head at. You’re literally saying you’re accepting people to die from this when it doesn’t have to be that way at all.

It actually does. You don't have a choice. Do we stop everyone from talking to each other to stop people dying from the flu ? Do we still drive cars ? Do we still fly in planes ?

Reality. You can't avoid it. People die. It sucks.

Get vaccinated. Don't eat too much meat and junk food. Exercise. Don't smoke. Put the odds in your favor.

That is all you get in this life.

“You don’t have a choice” We all have choices and a voice. People flock to much around an accepted version of what reality is. Look at the protesting overseas, people have had enough of their “reality”

The fact is though, Australia can stay safe from this virus for years if we have to. Simply by closing our borders and only reopening them once there is a safe and approved vaccine.

We’re basically doing it now, but just a band aid version.

There is no way we could stay locked down for years. It would be a disaster. You also didn't state what we should do about the flu and poor diet and smoking and cars and planes and millions of other things.

It isn’t a disaster already? What you see in the UK, India, US, etc isn’t a disaster? Australia will be no different if we keep the current path. A vaccine with side affects isn’t the answer either.

I didn’t mention anything about what else you said because it was just stupid and nothing to do with what we’re discussing.

Just answer me this? Is Australia impacted more by closing the international border permanently until there’s an approved and safe vaccine, which secured the safety of the majority or by vaccinating as many who choose and letting the virus in completely or living with a lockdown style nation for the next few decades?

That’s the 2 options I see Australia living with?

***Every*** medicine comes with side effects. Contraceptive pills have a risk of stroke. Warfarin can cause liver problems, Sotalol increases your LDL cholesterol. Got a headache? Don't take paracetemol, they can cause liver complications and create bleed risks. Everyday people take medication without questioning the risks of it.

The flu vaccination has side effects. Tetanus shots, triple antigen boosters, whooping cough vaccines. Why is it all of a sudden a problem with the COVID vaccines? The medical experts are all still saying get vaccinated. There is obviously overwhelming evidence to support that being vaccinated is overwhelmingly better than contracting COVID without any immunity, especially now that the virus has mutated to the point where it is no longer just picking off the infirm and elderly. It's making younger people sick. They are ending up in the ICU.

The general scientific consensus is that the vaccines are safe. We have someone on this forum whose specialty is in drug analysis and they are saying there's nothing to indicate that the vaccines are any more dangerous than any other vaccine.

What are the stats for severe illness and death from the ones you’ve mentioned? That’s why people are questioning the covid vaccine compared to others. I’m not an anti-vaxxer by any stretch. But I just don’t think the current options are worth the risk and an temporary emergency approval doesn’t cut it.

My argument here isn’t necessarily about a vaccine. My argument is that we should protect our country (even if it means completely blocking overseas/return travel) until proper testing on a vaccine is completed. Then by all means encourage the jab and reopen the country. I’m just astounded by the impatience of people to have international borders reopened. IMO there’s just alternative ways of managing this virus that overall will save more Australians whether it be from covid itself, or potential side affects from the current vaccinations available.

In regards to the general scientific consensus, the facts of the large number of adverse and deadly reactions goes against that. So we can disagree both ways on that.

The clot risks from contraceptives are higher than that of the AZ vaccine. Clot risk is 1 in 1,000 women, versus 1 in 250,000 from the AZ vaccine.

Complications from Warfarin are well known. Brain bleeds, gastrointestinal bleeding, bloody urine, hepatic failure, stomach ulcers. I've had gastrointestinal bleeding and blood in my urine previously.

Not sure on the figures regarding flu vaccines etc. Would have to do some searching for that.

I do however also agree that opening international borders is ludicrous at this point.

There’s been over a million adverse reactions to the vaccines already and 12000 deaths in a 6 month period in the states with the majority linked to vaccines.

Well yes and no. Firstly the percentage of deaths against vaccines is very low. By comparison over 600,000 have died from COVID. Here are the numbers and data analysis noting that the 12,000 vaccine deaths are not necessarily a direct outcome of the vaccine.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html

More than 338 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through July 19, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 12,313 reports of death (0.0036%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem. A review of available clinical information, including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records, has not established a causal link to COVID-19 vaccines. However, recent reports indicate a plausible causal relationship between the J&J/Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine and TTS, a rare and serious adverse event—blood clots with low platelets—which has caused deaths.

 

[tigger]

The only people I have sympathy for are those who, for medical reasons are unable to avail themselves of the vaccines.

I get where you are coming from. I was going to up vote your post but I didn't. People will die when they don't need too. I reckon it's really bad.

There is no other option though.

I recognise that, at the moment, our situation in Australia is very different to other nations:
(1) Because we have been relatively successful in suppressing the disease
(2) Because we haven't had the vaccine availability that other advanced nations have had

In other advanced nations, the path to re-opening has been slowed by those people who refuse to be vaccinated. It's entirely their right to adopt that position. We are not entitled to complain about it (imo).

Equally, when the possibility of opening up becomes available, we should not be constrained by their decision to refuse vaccination.

When we do open up, some unvaccinated people will get very sick. They will still receive first class medical attention. Some will die and that will be sad, but we all have to live with the consequences of our own decisions.

 

[swag_tiger]

Apparently Australia is now the start of the one world order if you ask some people. I am Christian and I'm not buying it at all.

 

[Geo]

Apparently Australia is now the start of the one world order if you ask some people. I am Christian and I'm not buying it at all.

What does that mean for the average punter..?

 

[swag_tiger]

Apparently Australia is now the start of the one world order if you ask some people. I am Christian and I'm not buying it at all.

What does that mean for the average punter..?

The New World Order (NWO) is a conspiracy theory which hypothesizes a secretly emerging totalitarian world government.

 

[happy_tiger]

Apparently Australia is now the start of the one world order if you ask some people. I am Christian and I'm not buying it at all.

What does that mean for the average punter..?

The New World Order (NWO) is a conspiracy theory which hypothesizes a secretly emerging totalitarian world government.

Never knew Rick Bischoff and Hollywood Hogan had plans of World Domination

 

[earl]

More than 338 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through July 19, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 12,313 reports of death (0.0036%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem.

I hope people read this. If everyone in Australia is vaccinated then we'd expect 900 people to die soon after receiving the vaccine but that doesn't mean those people died from the COVID vaccine. It will happen but it's very rare.

If everyone caught COVID we'd expect 375000 deaths from COVID. This isn't as rare. It's a conservative figure of 1.5% mortality rate. Happy to adjust.

The efficacy of the vaccines are really good. My understanding is that the vast majority of deaths are now people that are un-vaccinated.

I'd argue the data is screaming to get vaccinated.

 

[Geo]

Apparently Australia is now the start of the one world order if you ask some people. I am Christian and I'm not buying it at all.

What does that mean for the average punter..?

The New World Order (NWO) is a conspiracy theory which hypothesizes a secretly emerging totalitarian world government.

Will PIES still cost $5.50 with sauce..

 

[Don Kershane]

Apparently Australia is now the start of the one world order if you ask some people. I am Christian and I'm not buying it at all.

What does that mean for the average punter..?

The New World Order (NWO) is a conspiracy theory which hypothesizes a secretly emerging totalitarian world government.

V'Landys outed?

 

[Yossarian]

Apparently Australia is now the start of the one world order if you ask some people. I am Christian and I'm not buying it at all.

What does that mean for the average punter..?

The New World Order (NWO) is a conspiracy theory which hypothesizes a secretly emerging totalitarian world government.

Will PIES still cost $5.50 with sauce..

Sure but the sauce will contain nanobots. Also the use of the world sheeple will increase by 42%.

 

[mike]

More than 338 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through July 19, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 12,313 reports of death (0.0036%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem.

I hope people read this. If everyone in Australia is vaccinated then we'd expect 900 people to die soon after receiving the vaccine but that doesn't mean those people died from the COVID vaccine. It will happen but it's very rare.

If everyone caught COVID we'd expect 375000 deaths from COVID. This isn't as rare. It's a conservative figure of 1.5% mortality rate. Happy to adjust.

The efficacy of the vaccines are really good. My understanding is that the vast majority of deaths are now people that are un-vaccinated.

I'd argue the data is screaming to get vaccinated.

The vaccine doesn’t vaccinate you against death, just against Covid19

 

[tigertye]

More than 338 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through July 19, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 12,313 reports of death (0.0036%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem.

I hope people read this. If everyone in Australia is vaccinated then we'd expect 900 people to die soon after receiving the vaccine but that doesn't mean those people died from the COVID vaccine. It will happen but it's very rare.

If everyone caught COVID we'd expect 375000 deaths from COVID. This isn't as rare. It's a conservative figure of 1.5% mortality rate. Happy to adjust.

The efficacy of the vaccines are really good. My understanding is that the vast majority of deaths are now people that are un-vaccinated.

I'd argue the data is screaming to get vaccinated.

There’s some of the data I’ve read that you and @cochise were asking for. Mind you there’s a lack of reporting going on in relation to adverse affects from the vaccinations. Going off your numbers I’d say that’s 900 deaths that don’t need to happen. That’s my opinion based around how I view things anyway.

As I’ve said, I believe a vaccine is the way out. Just not necessarily the 2 major vaccines that have been offered. I believe we have time to wait for alternative treatments that may be safer with less adverse health issues. I think putting a halt to international travel for a few years outweighs the cost of loss of life.

 

[hobbo1]

LOCK AUSTRALIA DOWN. Forget about the vaccinations and wait until we have a safe and approved vaccination until we consider reopening the country. The government pushing this lab rat vaccination agenda is an absolute disgrace.

Back to reality.

1. You can't shut the country down completely.
2. We vaccinate. We let it rip. People will die but it will save the vast majority of people. The ones who choose not to vaccinate will suffer from this much more than they need too but that is the cost of letting people make their own decisions.

It would have been good to have some special quarantine facility but the reality is we've kept it until control up until the home run and it's only the delta strain that is really giving it to us. I think by Christmas we will probably be in the let it rip phase.

Unfortunately, it’s this mentality of what reality should be is what I shake my head at. You’re literally saying you’re accepting people to die from this when it doesn’t have to be that way at all.

It actually does. You don't have a choice. Do we stop everyone from talking to each other to stop people dying from the flu ? Do we still drive cars ? Do we still fly in planes ?

Reality. You can't avoid it. People die. It sucks.

Get vaccinated. Don't eat too much meat and junk food. Exercise. Don't smoke. Put the odds in your favor.

That is all you get in this life.

“You don’t have a choice” We all have choices and a voice. People flock to much around an accepted version of what reality is. Look at the protesting overseas, people have had enough of their “reality”

The fact is though, Australia can stay safe from this virus for years if we have to. Simply by closing our borders and only reopening them once there is a safe and approved vaccine.

We’re basically doing it now, but just a band aid version.

There is no way we could stay locked down for years. It would be a disaster. You also didn't state what we should do about the flu and poor diet and smoking and cars and planes and millions of other things.

It isn’t a disaster already? What you see in the UK, India, US, etc isn’t a disaster? Australia will be no different if we keep the current path. A vaccine with side affects isn’t the answer either.

I didn’t mention anything about what else you said because it was just stupid and nothing to do with what we’re discussing.

Just answer me this? Is Australia impacted more by closing the international border permanently until there’s an approved and safe vaccine, which secured the safety of the majority or by vaccinating as many who choose and letting the virus in completely or living with a lockdown style nation for the next few decades?

That’s the 2 options I see Australia living with?

***Every*** medicine comes with side effects. Contraceptive pills have a risk of stroke. Warfarin can cause liver problems, Sotalol increases your LDL cholesterol. Got a headache? Don't take paracetemol, they can cause liver complications and create bleed risks. Everyday people take medication without questioning the risks of it.

The flu vaccination has side effects. Tetanus shots, triple antigen boosters, whooping cough vaccines. Why is it all of a sudden a problem with the COVID vaccines? The medical experts are all still saying get vaccinated. There is obviously overwhelming evidence to support that being vaccinated is overwhelmingly better than contracting COVID without any immunity, especially now that the virus has mutated to the point where it is no longer just picking off the infirm and elderly. It's making younger people sick. They are ending up in the ICU.

The general scientific consensus is that the vaccines are safe. We have someone on this forum whose specialty is in drug analysis and they are saying there's nothing to indicate that the vaccines are any more dangerous than any other vaccine.

What are the stats for severe illness and death from the ones you’ve mentioned? That’s why people are questioning the covid vaccine compared to others. I’m not an anti-vaxxer by any stretch. But I just don’t think the current options are worth the risk and an temporary emergency approval doesn’t cut it.

My argument here isn’t necessarily about a vaccine. My argument is that we should protect our country (even if it means completely blocking overseas/return travel) until proper testing on a vaccine is completed. Then by all means encourage the jab and reopen the country. I’m just astounded by the impatience of people to have international borders reopened. IMO there’s just alternative ways of managing this virus that overall will save more Australians whether it be from covid itself, or potential side affects from the current vaccinations available.

In regards to the general scientific consensus, the facts of the large number of adverse and deadly reactions goes against that. So we can disagree both ways on that.

I daresay it would be deemed unconstitutional to prevent Australian citizens from returning home.

They’ve had long enough mate ..
These ain’t stranded Aussies that have only been overseas for 6 months or less.
These are Aussies who’ve been overseas for decades but keep there Aussie passports renewed.
Lock the doors !

 

[Papacito]

Make from it what you will, but:

https://apps.tga.gov.au/prod/daen/daen-report.aspx

Over 10,000 reactions (most very minor) to covid vaccines from around 2,000,000 people as of mid-April and 88 deaths.

Keep in mind, these would have primarily been older people who are more likely to have other health conditions.

A back of the envelope calculation (1% mortality rate from covid) gives me 20,000 deaths and probably 200,000+ hospital treatments if covid was running unhindered in this group without vaccination.

Add to that, indirect deaths from people who couldn't get a hospital bed from the overloaded hospital system.

Vaccines are not without risk, but the net benefit is enormous.

 

[Guest]

LOCK AUSTRALIA DOWN. Forget about the vaccinations and wait until we have a safe and approved vaccination until we consider reopening the country. The government pushing this lab rat vaccination agenda is an absolute disgrace.

Back to reality.

1. You can't shut the country down completely.
2. We vaccinate. We let it rip. People will die but it will save the vast majority of people. The ones who choose not to vaccinate will suffer from this much more than they need too but that is the cost of letting people make their own decisions.

It would have been good to have some special quarantine facility but the reality is we've kept it until control up until the home run and it's only the delta strain that is really giving it to us. I think by Christmas we will probably be in the let it rip phase.

Unfortunately, it’s this mentality of what reality should be is what I shake my head at. You’re literally saying you’re accepting people to die from this when it doesn’t have to be that way at all.

It actually does. You don't have a choice. Do we stop everyone from talking to each other to stop people dying from the flu ? Do we still drive cars ? Do we still fly in planes ?

Reality. You can't avoid it. People die. It sucks.

Get vaccinated. Don't eat too much meat and junk food. Exercise. Don't smoke. Put the odds in your favor.

That is all you get in this life.

“You don’t have a choice” We all have choices and a voice. People flock to much around an accepted version of what reality is. Look at the protesting overseas, people have had enough of their “reality”

The fact is though, Australia can stay safe from this virus for years if we have to. Simply by closing our borders and only reopening them once there is a safe and approved vaccine.

We’re basically doing it now, but just a band aid version.

There is no way we could stay locked down for years. It would be a disaster. You also didn't state what we should do about the flu and poor diet and smoking and cars and planes and millions of other things.

It isn’t a disaster already? What you see in the UK, India, US, etc isn’t a disaster? Australia will be no different if we keep the current path. A vaccine with side affects isn’t the answer either.

I didn’t mention anything about what else you said because it was just stupid and nothing to do with what we’re discussing.

Just answer me this? Is Australia impacted more by closing the international border permanently until there’s an approved and safe vaccine, which secured the safety of the majority or by vaccinating as many who choose and letting the virus in completely or living with a lockdown style nation for the next few decades?

That’s the 2 options I see Australia living with?

***Every*** medicine comes with side effects. Contraceptive pills have a risk of stroke. Warfarin can cause liver problems, Sotalol increases your LDL cholesterol. Got a headache? Don't take paracetemol, they can cause liver complications and create bleed risks. Everyday people take medication without questioning the risks of it.

The flu vaccination has side effects. Tetanus shots, triple antigen boosters, whooping cough vaccines. Why is it all of a sudden a problem with the COVID vaccines? The medical experts are all still saying get vaccinated. There is obviously overwhelming evidence to support that being vaccinated is overwhelmingly better than contracting COVID without any immunity, especially now that the virus has mutated to the point where it is no longer just picking off the infirm and elderly. It's making younger people sick. They are ending up in the ICU.

The general scientific consensus is that the vaccines are safe. We have someone on this forum whose specialty is in drug analysis and they are saying there's nothing to indicate that the vaccines are any more dangerous than any other vaccine.

What are the stats for severe illness and death from the ones you’ve mentioned? That’s why people are questioning the covid vaccine compared to others. I’m not an anti-vaxxer by any stretch. But I just don’t think the current options are worth the risk and an temporary emergency approval doesn’t cut it.

My argument here isn’t necessarily about a vaccine. My argument is that we should protect our country (even if it means completely blocking overseas/return travel) until proper testing on a vaccine is completed. Then by all means encourage the jab and reopen the country. I’m just astounded by the impatience of people to have international borders reopened. IMO there’s just alternative ways of managing this virus that overall will save more Australians whether it be from covid itself, or potential side affects from the current vaccinations available.

In regards to the general scientific consensus, the facts of the large number of adverse and deadly reactions goes against that. So we can disagree both ways on that.

I daresay it would be deemed unconstitutional to prevent Australian citizens from returning home.

They’ve had long enough mate ..
These ain’t stranded Aussies that have only been overseas for 6 months or less.
These are Aussies who’ve been overseas for decades but keep there Aussie passports renewed.
Lock the doors !

I don't disagree but the pollies will never go for it.

 

[hank37w]

Petition to reopen barbers as a essential service 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍

Mods, please move this to the Justin Pascoe thread.