Coronavirus Outbreak

[Nelson]

I Fear life does not return to normal once vaccinated. Thats my point re relative vaccine efficacy, real risks of virus small vaccine risk.
Let's hope vaccinated persons have the right to protest at 80% vaccinated .

Maybe they will if they check in and keep the 4sq rule. That way the police can keep a dossier on people perhaps.

As a matter of interest how do people on here feel about authoritarian restrictions continuing past an 80% vaccinated rate? I always thought once this happens life reverts fully back to normal, everyone has had an opportunity to vaccinate .......But seems we hear oppression goes on .

Do vaccination status have to be updated every 6 months?

I would say yes .. have the booster and your status continues, this will be the case for a few years I reckon.

Well if this state of affairs continues for another few years even when vaccinated that is very sad indeed.

Seems "democracy " is changing sadly

No, it seems like that has nothing to do with democracy. If you don't like what they're doing then vote for someone else. Then when they turn around and do the same thing you can realise that you actually don't like democracy because the majority are against you.

So even if nearly everyone if vaccinated you feel restrictions must go on?
If everyone is against me that's fine. Just didn't think people want restrictions for many years without right to protest.
But then some may prefer authoritarian regimes. That's their choice.

Authoritarianism is not antithetical to democracy: some notorious authoritarian democracies have existed in the past.

I do think some level of restriction will still be required for some time, yes. If they immediately opened everything up back to normal at 80% then, with the level of infection currently circulating in the community, there would likely be a mass outbreak. The healthcare system would be overwhelmed and there would be unnecessary deaths. I fully expect them to take a staged approach to reducing restrictions with a view to minimising the risk of overload on healthcare.

If the restrictions were in place for arbitrary reasons then I would not be accepting of them. It doesn't seem to me like they are though: it seems to me like our medical community is largely indicating that this is what is required for the communal good.

I'm quite sure this government does **not** want restrictions in place any more than is necessary and it was that very attitude that perhaps contributed to this outbreak in the first place.

 

[voice_of_reason]

So even if nearly everyone if vaccinated you feel restrictions must go on?
If everyone is against me that's fine. Just didn't think people want restrictions for many years without right to protest.
But then some may prefer authoritarian regimes. That's their choice.

So the primary reason you want lockdowns to end is so you can protest? Staggering.

You appear to follow the conspiracy theories of 'Government control' and authoritarianism. Exactly what do you think the government wants from lockdowns? Do you really believe they want the economy to falter, their voter support to dive, for unemployment to skyrocket and tax income to fall?

What exactly do you believe the Governments (of all states and countries btw) are trying to achieve by keeping us locked down?

 

[voice_of_reason]

Authoritarianism is not antithetical to democracy: some notorious authoritarian democracies have existed in the past.

I do think some level of restriction will still be required for some time, yes. If they immediately opened everything up back to normal at 80% then, with the level of infection currently circulating in the community, there would likely be a mass outbreak. The healthcare system would be overwhelmed and there would be unnecessary deaths. I fully expect them to take a staged approach to reducing restrictions with a view to minimising the risk of overload on healthcare.

If the restrictions were in place for arbitrary reasons then I would not be accepting of them. It doesn't seem to me like they are though: it seems to me like our medical community is largely indicating that this is what is required for the communal good.

I'm quite sure this government does **not** want restrictions in place any more than is necessary and it was that very attitude that perhaps contributed to this outbreak in the first place.

What I believe but expressed in a far better way than I could have managed.

 

[Tiger5150]


These are the stats that I was pointing to. 5 deaths fully vaxed and many serious cases are not the numbers I expected from fully vaccinated individuals, we were told vaccination virtually eliminates getting very sick and considering Australia's relatively low case numbers this wouldn't conform to most people view of a high degree of protection sadly imo. AZ has also been responsible for 7 deaths and 10s of people seriously ill maybe permanently so just in Australia this year.

So can't see the issues some of you may have with my views. Unfortunately, vaxed or not doesn't seem I'm going to feel fully protected when things open hopefully.

And that to me is a failure, to think in this day and age with all the technology available we are walking around with masks like it's 1920.

Currently 17,999 active cases in NSW. 27 fully vaccinated people are in hospital. that is 0.15% chance of ending up hospitalised if you contract COVID and are fully vaccinated.

EDIT: I originally quoted the total state numbers, not current actives.

Sorry to say but your maths is wrong.

You need to know how many of the 17999 active cases are vaccinated to work out the chance of being hospitalised and vaccinated but catch Covid.

Secondly, your figure of 27 people was correct as of 14/08/2021 but I dont think is current? If so we need to used the total active cases for 14/08/2021 which was 7781, not 17999.

Based on that data the number of fully vaxxed people with Covid is 194. 27 in hospital out of 194 represents 14% which is higher than I would have anticipated and higher than the unvaccinated (890 out of 7587) at 12%.

This gets back to the weird situation I was discussing the other day that on bare numbers of people in hospital, once you have contracted COVID there doesnt seem to be an advantage to vaccination however when you factor in the prophylactic nature of the vaccine, it makes a much bigger difference.

On the 14/08/2021 approx 20% of Aus was fully vaccinated (https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations?country=OWID_WRL) so if we use that figure for NSW, then of the 917 people in hospital, if the vaccine had zero effectiveness at preventing hospitalisation, you would anticipate 183 fully vaccinated people in hospital, but there isnt, there was only 27. You are 6.7 x less likely to end up in hospital if you are fully vaccinated which equates to a vaccine effectiveness (VE) for hospitalisation of 85% which is a fair bit less than the UK quoted VE.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

It's simple, if you don't wanna get vaccinated don't expect the same privileges as the Vaxxed when we open back up again.

How far are you meaning to go with this? Denying jobs for non vax people? Getting a bit like the American south or Germany in the 30's. It's very dangerous as history shows when you say some people are more worthy than others.
I say this as someone who has had his first jab...waiting for the next. But as a lover of history nothing good has ever come from discrimination of any form.

So you're saying businesses can't make it mandatory for their employees to get vaccinated?

Our workplace will introduce mandatory vaccinations. I don't give a rats as long as it provides protection to all.

 

[Tiger5150]

I Fear life does not return to normal once vaccinated. Thats my point re relative vaccine efficacy, real risks of virus small vaccine risk.
Let's hope vaccinated persons have the right to protest at 80% vaccinated .

Maybe they will if they check in and keep the 4sq rule. That way the police can keep a dossier on people perhaps.

As a matter of interest how do people on here feel about authoritarian restrictions continuing past an 80% vaccinated rate? I always thought once this happens life reverts fully back to normal, everyone has had an opportunity to vaccinate .......But seems we hear oppression goes on .

Do vaccination status have to be updated every 6 months?

I would say yes .. have the booster and your status continues, this will be the case for a few years I reckon.

Well if this state of affairs continues for another few years even when vaccinated that is very sad indeed.

Seems "democracy " is changing sadly

No, it seems like that has nothing to do with democracy. If you don't like what they're doing then vote for someone else. Then when they turn around and do the same thing you can realise that you actually don't like democracy because the majority are against you.

So even if nearly everyone if vaccinated you feel restrictions must go on?
If everyone is against me that's fine. Just didn't think people want restrictions for many years without right to protest.
But then some may prefer authoritarian regimes. That's their choice.

Seems an unreasonable binary to me without considering the right parameters.

If everyone is vaccinated and hospitalisations and deaths are reduced to something approximating influenza deaths or similar, I cant see the need for the restrictions to continue.

IF "everyone" is vaccinated but deaths and hospitalisations continue to rise past what the health system can accomodate, I would think we would have to second guess that?

 

[Tiger5150]

Ahhh, a new warrior has entered the battle dome.

Fight well @Magpie_Magic.

I just highlighted a few truths that have been backed up which may have enlightened some because I fear that life has changed for us all perhaps permanently.
I just read CMO in NSW saying vacines, social distancing and by extension QR codes and general oppression lasting many years even with vacines.

I'm spooked.

I hope they will let us protest after 80% vaccinated otherwise the real battle has been lost !

Truths backed up by what? You're way behind the 8-ball on providing anything of factual or scientific basis in this thread

Really.

I highlighted that some have died fully vaxed and were very sick.
Nobody seemed to be aware.
Is that not factual?

Still waiting on your factual information regarding fully vaxxed in ICU?

 

[Guest]

Ahhh, a new warrior has entered the battle dome.

Fight well @Magpie_Magic.

I just highlighted a few truths that have been backed up which may have enlightened some because I fear that life has changed for us all perhaps permanently.
I just read CMO in NSW saying vacines, social distancing and by extension QR codes and general oppression lasting many years even with vacines.

I'm spooked.

I hope they will let us protest after 80% vaccinated otherwise the real battle has been lost !

Truths backed up by what? You're way behind the 8-ball on providing anything of factual or scientific basis in this thread

Really.

I highlighted that some have died fully vaxed and were very sick.
Nobody seemed to be aware.
Is that not factual?

Still waiting on your factual information regarding fully vaxxed in ICU?

You will be waiting a VERY long time I fear.

 

[Tim Sheens]

A brothel in Rydalmere shut down, owner, girls and clients fined... One bloke claiming he's there quoting for a..... hehe...... 'paint job' ?

I would have thought that they'd be classified as sensual workers!

Bookings are essential.

 

[Tiger5150]

Ahhh, a new warrior has entered the battle dome.

Fight well @Magpie_Magic.

I just highlighted a few truths that have been backed up which may have enlightened some because I fear that life has changed for us all perhaps permanently.
I just read CMO in NSW saying vacines, social distancing and by extension QR codes and general oppression lasting many years even with vacines.

I'm spooked.

I hope they will let us protest after 80% vaccinated otherwise the real battle has been lost !

Truths backed up by what? You're way behind the 8-ball on providing anything of factual or scientific basis in this thread

Really.

I highlighted that some have died fully vaxed and were very sick.
Nobody seemed to be aware.
Is that not factual?

Still waiting on your factual information regarding fully vaxxed in ICU?

You will be waiting a VERY long time I fear.

Willow you have seen, Im quite persistent in requiring people back up what they say.....

 

[Pascoes_barber]

"Authoritarian"? My goodness, what an absurd perspective from someone in Australia. Get a grip.

(Or loosen it).

 

[Pascoes_barber]

A brothel in Rydalmere shut down, owner, girls and clients fined... One bloke claiming he's there quoting for a..... hehe...... 'paint job' ?

I would have thought that they'd be classified as sensual workers!

Bookings are essential.

Wearing protection is mandatory, seems to be a grey area around social distancing.

@hobbo1 did you get let off from being fined?

 

[hobbo1]

A brothel in Rydalmere shut down, owner, girls and clients fined... One bloke claiming he's there quoting for a..... hehe...... 'paint job' ?

I would have thought that they'd be classified as sensual workers!

Bookings are essential.

Wearing protection is mandatory, seems to be a grey area around social distancing.

@hobbo1 did you get let off from being fined?

Nah … I’ll pay the fine
I’ll just add that cost in the price ?

 

[Eca]

Anyone heard of this? Our very own..

https://www.themandarin.com.au/165827-promising-covid-vaccine-developed-in-australia-gets-green-light-for-human-clinical-trials/

 

[TrueTiger]

Just a little note of concern to people bagging some others for not having the vax and calling them names etc...my ex partner had a friend that was being treated for cancer(breast)...she was very dubious of having the vax because of the chemo injected in her to help cure the cancer took an absolute toll on her body and her immune system wouldnt handle it....she has passed away...
My point is that some people have a reason not to take the vax...if you do well and good..but its an individuals choice...if my partners friend didnt get the vax because of her situation,then why should she not be allowed to spend her last few months enjoying life to the fullest without having to prove why she isnt vaxxed ...its a very personal thing to segregate someone without knowing the facts and their history...

 

[Magpie_Magic]

Ahhh, a new warrior has entered the battle dome.

Fight well @Magpie_Magic.

I just highlighted a few truths that have been backed up which may have enlightened some because I fear that life has changed for us all perhaps permanently.
I just read CMO in NSW saying vacines, social distancing and by extension QR codes and general oppression lasting many years even with vacines.

I'm spooked.

I hope they will let us protest after 80% vaccinated otherwise the real battle has been lost !

Truths backed up by what? You're way behind the 8-ball on providing anything of factual or scientific basis in this thread

Really.

I highlighted that some have died fully vaxed and were very sick.
Nobody seemed to be aware.
Is that not factual?

Yes we're aware - elderly folk with underlying health issues, although you didn't bother to talk about those key factors because it doesn't fit in with your agenda.

Were you aware of it?

Elderly people with underlying conditions are exactly the sorry that need the most protection so that's less than what most would have expected..

 

[Guest]

Ahhh, a new warrior has entered the battle dome.

Fight well @Magpie_Magic.

I just highlighted a few truths that have been backed up which may have enlightened some because I fear that life has changed for us all perhaps permanently.
I just read CMO in NSW saying vacines, social distancing and by extension QR codes and general oppression lasting many years even with vacines.

I'm spooked.

I hope they will let us protest after 80% vaccinated otherwise the real battle has been lost !

Truths backed up by what? You're way behind the 8-ball on providing anything of factual or scientific basis in this thread

Really.

I highlighted that some have died fully vaxed and were very sick.
Nobody seemed to be aware.
Is that not factual?

Yes we're aware - elderly folk with underlying health issues, although you didn't bother to talk about those key factors because it doesn't fit in with your agenda.

Were you aware of it?

Elderly people with underlying conditions are exactly the sorry that need the most protection so that's less than what most would have expected..

Of course I was aware of it, why did you think I mentioned it? It's public knowledge.

 

[Magpie_Magic]

So even if nearly everyone if vaccinated you feel restrictions must go on?
If everyone is against me that's fine. Just didn't think people want restrictions for many years without right to protest.
But then some may prefer authoritarian regimes. That's their choice.

So the primary reason you want lockdowns to end is so you can protest? Staggering.

You appear to follow the conspiracy theories of 'Government control' and authoritarianism. Exactly what do you think the government wants from lockdowns? Do you really believe they want the economy to falter, their voter support to dive, for unemployment to skyrocket and tax income to fall?

What exactly do you believe the Governments (of all states and countries btw) are trying to achieve by keeping us locked down?

What are you talking about.
My primary fear is continuing restrictions without the right to even protest against them.

Not sure about conspiracies however the economy can be supported indefinitely by QE and handouts with low level restrictions which I don't want.

Never been to a protest for any reason either.

 

[Magpie_Magic]

I Fear life does not return to normal once vaccinated. Thats my point re relative vaccine efficacy, real risks of virus small vaccine risk.
Let's hope vaccinated persons have the right to protest at 80% vaccinated .

Maybe they will if they check in and keep the 4sq rule. That way the police can keep a dossier on people perhaps.

As a matter of interest how do people on here feel about authoritarian restrictions continuing past an 80% vaccinated rate? I always thought once this happens life reverts fully back to normal, everyone has had an opportunity to vaccinate .......But seems we hear oppression goes on .

Do vaccination status have to be updated every 6 months?

I would say yes .. have the booster and your status continues, this will be the case for a few years I reckon.

Well if this state of affairs continues for another few years even when vaccinated that is very sad indeed.

Seems "democracy " is changing sadly

No, it seems like that has nothing to do with democracy. If you don't like what they're doing then vote for someone else. Then when they turn around and do the same thing you can realise that you actually don't like democracy because the majority are against you.

So even if nearly everyone if vaccinated you feel restrictions must go on?
If everyone is against me that's fine. Just didn't think people want restrictions for many years without right to protest.
But then some may prefer authoritarian regimes. That's their choice.

Seems an unreasonable binary to me without considering the right parameters.

If everyone is vaccinated and hospitalisations and deaths are reduced to something approximating influenza deaths or similar, I cant see the need for the restrictions to continue.

IF "everyone" is vaccinated but deaths and hospitalisations continue to rise past what the health system can accomodate, I would think we would have to second guess that?

I hope your right but only today NSW top doctor and premier mentioned QR codes and restrictions will continue into the future. There will always be some level of virus around so the excuse for restrictions will remain if they choose.

I personally would prefer total freedom past 80% whatever case numbers. That's what initially was mentioned.
We must have faith in the vaccines.

 

[Geo]

A QR code is a restriction?