CORONAVIRUS VACCINATIONS

[Cultured_Bogan]

I really hate that 'anti-vaxer' name tag. Just because someone may reject a particular vaccine against a particular disease, does not make that person anti vaccine per se.
If ebola reared it's ugly head in this country, I would be lining up to have my jab like most people. It does after all, have a 30% lethality.
I do not, however, intend getting a jab against this coronavirus. My belief is, and the stats would back this up, if you are reasonably healthy, then there is very little to concern yourself with.
If i was immuno-compromised, my decision may well be different.



Another person who couldnt give a rats about the fact that being a covid superspreader if they have it is ok because they are safe even if people they come into contact with are vulnerable.
Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon would be proud of you

If you are that paranoid about getting 'The Covid', then wear your mask, get your jab, social distance, stay away from mass gatherings and you should be OK! As for me, I'll take my chances. Cheers!

See, you're taking your chances, and the chances of others that won't be able to get vaccinated.

It's not about you.

I swear by my Chiro !!

Why?

Firstly I’m not 17 and flexible anymore ..
I’ve been a Painter & Decorator for 28 years ..
My body is stuffed ..
Without monthly visits to the Chiro I wouldn’t be able to work without being in constant pain ..
Painters neck & Sciatica

Go to a physio. They'll show you which muscles you need to work on.

 

[fibrodreaming]

It’s not about you.

Oh yes it is ! It’s my decision. Only I have the right to determine what gets put in my body. Not you, or anyone else.

See, you’re taking your chances, and the chances of others that won’t be able to get vaccinated.

A couple of points about that.

First, you misunderstand the nature of vaccinations. Being vaccinated doesn’t guarantee that you won’t get the virus. The vaccination will give you antibodies which should allow your body to fight off the virus more quickly. However, while you are fighting it off you can still be infectious.

Second point, I assume your position on having the vaccine in order to protect others is based on the notion of “asymptomatic spreaders”. This is a myth. Indeed, a major study was published in the journal ‘Nature’ on 20 November 2020 called: “Post-lockdown SARS-CoV-2 nucleic acid screening in nearly ten million residents of Wuhan, China” which debunked that notion.

The conclusion from this exhaustive study was that there was no evidence of asymptomatic spread. None. In this study, virus cultures were carried out on samples from asymptomatic positive cases, and found no viable SARS-CoV-2 virus. All close contacts of the asymptomatic positive cases tested negative, indicating that the asymptomatic positive cases detected in this study were unlikely to be infectious.

This is consistent with WHO’s statements on the matter. On 7 June Dr Maria van Kerkhove, the technical lead of COVID-19 response and the head of the emerging diseases and zoonosis unit said:

“We have a number of reports from countries who are doing very detailed contact tracing. They are following asymptomatic cases, they are following contacts and they are not finding secondary transmission onward.”

At the end of the day, the decision to have a vaccination is a very personal one. Nothing you have said convinces me otherwise.

Of course it is personal, I've never said otherwise. Your decision does affect others though.

I can understand why you would think I'd have suggested otherwise though, I probably should have worded it as such that it's your decision, but it impacts more than just you. Saying it's not about you was easily read as "it's not your choice," which is not a view a hold. It's always your choice. That's on me though, I should articulate my position better.

I also don't have an intimate understanding of the mechanics of a vaccine itself, but I understand the basis of vaccination. Vaccination assists in adaptive immunity (so while you may get sick from it once, the goal is to be immune to retard further infection,) through which a population can achieve herd immunity to protect the vulnerable who cannot be vaccinated against the disease in their weakened state. That's why I believe it is important.

Thank you for your reply CB. I think I understand where you are coming from.

I support vaccination to obtain population immunity, which is why my children all received their full suite of jabs, as well as my grandchildren.

The problem is that this vaccine has been rushed through with the safety testing being significantly truncated. The trail of the AstraZeneca vaccine, which is the one the Australian Government has pre-purchased, is not due to be completed until the end of 2022. So, for me, there are lingering safety concern.

I’m more than happy to take one for the team if I were confident that the vaccine is safe. But I’m not confident at this stage, so I’m not going to have the jab for now. I will wait and see.

In addition, the most Covid-vulnerable people are the frail elderly, and these people have not been included in any vaccine trials. We know that, despite widespread flu vaccinations, the flu mortality for the frail elderly has not changed since pre-flu vaccination days. I would suggest that even if there were widespread vaccination of the general population, we will still see excess deaths of the frail elderly in nursing homes, which is where the bulk of Covid deaths have occurred.

 

[happy_tiger]

Anti vax idiots will have to do it then

Otherwise there dropped simple as that

I find it very interesting that everyone on here seems to be so trusting of govt authorities and the pharmaceutical industry that they will just line up and get jabbed with God knows what going into their bodies, without even questioning it. I actually work in the health industry and Lord knows I wouldn’t trust them ?

I’m no anti vaxer but I won’t be getting jabbed with this one ...
Not enough time or research for mine

Your a WT's supporter and Spurs supporter ..what worse could happen to you bar becoming a Victorian

Becoming an Aussie citizen ?

What you reckon the vaccine will teach you to spell ....give you a personality and stop you whinging

I’m licensed to whinge ..
The other two points I’m extremely accomplished in ..
I’m worried if I get the vaccine I’ll turn into a complete dope like yourself ?

You wish you could turn into a dope like me .....

The covid vaccine might work in reverse for you ....
You should give it a shot or two
(Both of your heads ) ?

Hey Hobbo,does Happy need two pillows on his side of the bed or do both heads fit on one...just asking ,,:man-heart-man:

Be careful ...I'll Liverpool kiss you with both of them

 

[happy_tiger]

I do not, however, intend getting a jab against this coronavirus. My belief is, and the stats would back this up, if you are reasonably healthy, then there is very little to concern yourself with.
If i was immuno-compromised, my decision may well be different.

It's not just about you. You could easily spread it to elderly friends or an immuno-compromised workmate.

More importantly, healthy people have died - lots of them. Don't forget one of the earliest victims was a healthy, 30 year old doctor in China - the gentleman who identified it.

There's also the long term damage which is still being studied.

The response to Covid is the first time in the history of mankind that healthy people have been 'locked down' or placed into isolation. In times past, those that are immuno-compromised or high risk, have been isolated or been encouraged to undertake extra precautions. I believe that is still the better option.
And unless you are privy to every individual's medical records I'm not sure how you can ascertain that 'healthy people have died'. I am not saying that they haven't, but it would seem to be very rare, at worst. Even the CDC (and their questionable statistics), have stated that over 94% of Covid deaths have occurred in people with an 'average' of 2.4 co-morbidities.
Anyway, I'm not trying to convince you or anyone else to change your stance. You are welcome to do whatever you feel is right - as will I.
I am still 'obeying' the current guidelines. I will just choose not to take the vaccine. If that means I can no longer travel OS, then so be it. My choice.

Sounds like Natural Selection ....the fittest and strongest survive

 

[Papacito]

Any medical intervention like an operation, treatment or vaccine comes with some risk.

You're actually way more at risk from a botched operation, someone picking up the wrong bottle of medication at a pharmacy or getting a random infection at your local hospital compared to a vaccine.

Personally I'm confident that the accumulated human knowledge around vaccine development alongside a robust approval process is enough to put any short term of long term risks as low as they can possibly be.

 

[happy_tiger]

I really hate that 'anti-vaxer' name tag. Just because someone may reject a particular vaccine against a particular disease, does not make that person anti vaccine per se.
If ebola reared it's ugly head in this country, I would be lining up to have my jab like most people. It does after all, have a 30% lethality.
I do not, however, intend getting a jab against this coronavirus. My belief is, and the stats would back this up, if you are reasonably healthy, then there is very little to concern yourself with.
If i was immuno-compromised, my decision may well be different.



Another person who couldnt give a rats about the fact that being a covid superspreader if they have it is ok because they are safe even if people they come into contact with are vulnerable.
Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon would be proud of you

If you are that paranoid about getting 'The Covid', then wear your mask, get your jab, social distance, stay away from mass gatherings and you should be OK! As for me, I'll take my chances. Cheers!

See, you're taking your chances, and the chances of others that won't be able to get vaccinated.

It's not about you.

I swear by my Chiro !!

He swears at you too

 

[happy_tiger]

I really hate that 'anti-vaxer' name tag. Just because someone may reject a particular vaccine against a particular disease, does not make that person anti vaccine per se.
If ebola reared it's ugly head in this country, I would be lining up to have my jab like most people. It does after all, have a 30% lethality.
I do not, however, intend getting a jab against this coronavirus. My belief is, and the stats would back this up, if you are reasonably healthy, then there is very little to concern yourself with.
If i was immuno-compromised, my decision may well be different.



Another person who couldnt give a rats about the fact that being a covid superspreader if they have it is ok because they are safe even if people they come into contact with are vulnerable.
Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon would be proud of you

If you are that paranoid about getting 'The Covid', then wear your mask, get your jab, social distance, stay away from mass gatherings and you should be OK! As for me, I'll take my chances. Cheers!

See, you're taking your chances, and the chances of others that won't be able to get vaccinated.

It's not about you.

I swear by my Chiro !!

Why?

Firstly I’m not 17 and flexible anymore ..
I’ve been a Painter & Decorator for 28 years ..
My body is stuffed ..
Without monthly visits to the Chiro I wouldn’t be able to work without being in constant pain ..
Painters neck & Sciatica

Why a Chiro and not a physio?

Too much cash work .....

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

It’s not about you.

Oh yes it is ! It’s my decision. Only I have the right to determine what gets put in my body. Not you, or anyone else.

See, you’re taking your chances, and the chances of others that won’t be able to get vaccinated.

A couple of points about that.

First, you misunderstand the nature of vaccinations. Being vaccinated doesn’t guarantee that you won’t get the virus. The vaccination will give you antibodies which should allow your body to fight off the virus more quickly. However, while you are fighting it off you can still be infectious.

Second point, I assume your position on having the vaccine in order to protect others is based on the notion of “asymptomatic spreaders”. This is a myth. Indeed, a major study was published in the journal ‘Nature’ on 20 November 2020 called: “Post-lockdown SARS-CoV-2 nucleic acid screening in nearly ten million residents of Wuhan, China” which debunked that notion.

The conclusion from this exhaustive study was that there was no evidence of asymptomatic spread. None. In this study, virus cultures were carried out on samples from asymptomatic positive cases, and found no viable SARS-CoV-2 virus. All close contacts of the asymptomatic positive cases tested negative, indicating that the asymptomatic positive cases detected in this study were unlikely to be infectious.

This is consistent with WHO’s statements on the matter. On 7 June Dr Maria van Kerkhove, the technical lead of COVID-19 response and the head of the emerging diseases and zoonosis unit said:

“We have a number of reports from countries who are doing very detailed contact tracing. They are following asymptomatic cases, they are following contacts and they are not finding secondary transmission onward.”

At the end of the day, the decision to have a vaccination is a very personal one. Nothing you have said convinces me otherwise.

Of course it is personal, I've never said otherwise. Your decision does affect others though.

I can understand why you would think I'd have suggested otherwise though, I probably should have worded it as such that it's your decision, but it impacts more than just you. Saying it's not about you was easily read as "it's not your choice," which is not a view a hold. It's always your choice. That's on me though, I should articulate my position better.

I also don't have an intimate understanding of the mechanics of a vaccine itself, but I understand the basis of vaccination. Vaccination assists in adaptive immunity (so while you may get sick from it once, the goal is to be immune to retard further infection,) through which a population can achieve herd immunity to protect the vulnerable who cannot be vaccinated against the disease in their weakened state. That's why I believe it is important.

Thank you for your reply CB. I think I understand where you are coming from.

I support vaccination to obtain population immunity, which is why my children all received their full suite of jabs, as well as my grandchildren.

The problem is that this vaccine has been rushed through with the safety testing being significantly truncated. The trail of the AstraZeneca vaccine, which is the one the Australian Government has pre-purchased, is not due to be completed until the end of 2022. So, for me, there are lingering safety concern.

I’m more than happy to take one for the team if I were confident that the vaccine is safe. But I’m not confident at this stage, so I’m not going to have the jab for now. I will wait and see.

In addition, the most Covid-vulnerable people are the frail elderly, and these people have not been included in any vaccine trials. We know that, despite widespread flu vaccinations, the flu mortality for the frail elderly has not changed since pre-flu vaccination days. I would suggest that even if there were widespread vaccination of the general population, we will still see excess deaths of the frail elderly in nursing homes, which is where the bulk of Covid deaths have occurred.

Are the pre-purchase vaccines not contingent upon government approval? No approval no sale.

I do agree that testing should not be truncated to expedite a vaccine. I'd like to think the Australian government would not approve a problematic or undertested vaccine. But, Scomo and his obsession with paying back the exorbitant government debt he and his predecessors have generated, will likely rush it through to get people working again.

Lastly, yes, the elderly is problem again in itself. I know there is a point where we all hit an age where something is going to get us, but I don't believe we should also just throw our hands up. There's people who also are undergoing treatments temporarily, or may have undiagnosed issues that compromise their immune systems. I don't know how to answer the elderly question.

The other concerns are the otherwise healthy people reporting potentially permanent tissue and organ damage from COVID.

 

[happy_tiger]

I really hate that 'anti-vaxer' name tag. Just because someone may reject a particular vaccine against a particular disease, does not make that person anti vaccine per se.
If ebola reared it's ugly head in this country, I would be lining up to have my jab like most people. It does after all, have a 30% lethality.
I do not, however, intend getting a jab against this coronavirus. My belief is, and the stats would back this up, if you are reasonably healthy, then there is very little to concern yourself with.
If i was immuno-compromised, my decision may well be different.



Another person who couldnt give a rats about the fact that being a covid superspreader if they have it is ok because they are safe even if people they come into contact with are vulnerable.
Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon would be proud of you

If you are that paranoid about getting 'The Covid', then wear your mask, get your jab, social distance, stay away from mass gatherings and you should be OK! As for me, I'll take my chances. Cheers!

See, you're taking your chances, and the chances of others that won't be able to get vaccinated.

It's not about you.

I swear by my Chiro !!

Why?

Firstly I’m not 17 and flexible anymore ..
I’ve been a Painter & Decorator for 28 years ..
My body is stuffed ..
Without monthly visits to the Chiro I wouldn’t be able to work without being in constant pain ..
Painters neck & Sciatica

Go to a physio. They'll show you which muscles you need to work on.

Yeah just don't get the Lymphoedema Treatment ......I got about 10 minutes in and asked the Physio "is this for Fairies " and he replied "well your the 1st bloke I've ever given it to " lol ..all this relaxing music ...having hot glasses stuck to your back ...aroma stuff everywhere ...needless to say if LD was fatal I was gonna take my chances with non treatment

 

[hobbo1]

I really hate that 'anti-vaxer' name tag. Just because someone may reject a particular vaccine against a particular disease, does not make that person anti vaccine per se.
If ebola reared it's ugly head in this country, I would be lining up to have my jab like most people. It does after all, have a 30% lethality.
I do not, however, intend getting a jab against this coronavirus. My belief is, and the stats would back this up, if you are reasonably healthy, then there is very little to concern yourself with.
If i was immuno-compromised, my decision may well be different.



Another person who couldnt give a rats about the fact that being a covid superspreader if they have it is ok because they are safe even if people they come into contact with are vulnerable.
Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon would be proud of you

If you are that paranoid about getting 'The Covid', then wear your mask, get your jab, social distance, stay away from mass gatherings and you should be OK! As for me, I'll take my chances. Cheers!

See, you're taking your chances, and the chances of others that won't be able to get vaccinated.

It's not about you.

I swear by my Chiro !!

Why?

Firstly I’m not 17 and flexible anymore ..
I’ve been a Painter & Decorator for 28 years ..
My body is stuffed ..
Without monthly visits to the Chiro I wouldn’t be able to work without being in constant pain ..
Painters neck & Sciatica

Why a Chiro and not a physio?

Physio is too brutal

 

[hobbo1]

I really hate that 'anti-vaxer' name tag. Just because someone may reject a particular vaccine against a particular disease, does not make that person anti vaccine per se.
If ebola reared it's ugly head in this country, I would be lining up to have my jab like most people. It does after all, have a 30% lethality.
I do not, however, intend getting a jab against this coronavirus. My belief is, and the stats would back this up, if you are reasonably healthy, then there is very little to concern yourself with.
If i was immuno-compromised, my decision may well be different.



Another person who couldnt give a rats about the fact that being a covid superspreader if they have it is ok because they are safe even if people they come into contact with are vulnerable.
Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon would be proud of you

If you are that paranoid about getting 'The Covid', then wear your mask, get your jab, social distance, stay away from mass gatherings and you should be OK! As for me, I'll take my chances. Cheers!

See, you're taking your chances, and the chances of others that won't be able to get vaccinated.

It's not about you.

I swear by my Chiro !!

Why?

Firstly I’m not 17 and flexible anymore ..
I’ve been a Painter & Decorator for 28 years ..
My body is stuffed ..
Without monthly visits to the Chiro I wouldn’t be able to work without being in constant pain ..
Painters neck & Sciatica

Go to a physio. They'll show you which muscles you need to work on.

Yeah just don't get the Lymphoedema Treatment ......I got about 10 minutes in and asked the Physio "is this for Fairies " and he replied "well your the 1st bloke I've ever given it to " lol ..all this relaxing music ...having hot glasses stuck to your back ...aroma stuff everywhere ...needless to say if LD was fatal I was gonna take my chances with non treatment

Did you listen to whale calls ?

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

I really hate that 'anti-vaxer' name tag. Just because someone may reject a particular vaccine against a particular disease, does not make that person anti vaccine per se.
If ebola reared it's ugly head in this country, I would be lining up to have my jab like most people. It does after all, have a 30% lethality.
I do not, however, intend getting a jab against this coronavirus. My belief is, and the stats would back this up, if you are reasonably healthy, then there is very little to concern yourself with.
If i was immuno-compromised, my decision may well be different.



Another person who couldnt give a rats about the fact that being a covid superspreader if they have it is ok because they are safe even if people they come into contact with are vulnerable.
Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon would be proud of you

If you are that paranoid about getting 'The Covid', then wear your mask, get your jab, social distance, stay away from mass gatherings and you should be OK! As for me, I'll take my chances. Cheers!

See, you're taking your chances, and the chances of others that won't be able to get vaccinated.

It's not about you.

I swear by my Chiro !!

Why?

Firstly I’m not 17 and flexible anymore ..
I’ve been a Painter & Decorator for 28 years ..
My body is stuffed ..
Without monthly visits to the Chiro I wouldn’t be able to work without being in constant pain ..
Painters neck & Sciatica

Why a Chiro and not a physio?

Physio is too brutal

Really?

 

[hobbo1]

I really hate that 'anti-vaxer' name tag. Just because someone may reject a particular vaccine against a particular disease, does not make that person anti vaccine per se.
If ebola reared it's ugly head in this country, I would be lining up to have my jab like most people. It does after all, have a 30% lethality.
I do not, however, intend getting a jab against this coronavirus. My belief is, and the stats would back this up, if you are reasonably healthy, then there is very little to concern yourself with.
If i was immuno-compromised, my decision may well be different.



Another person who couldnt give a rats about the fact that being a covid superspreader if they have it is ok because they are safe even if people they come into contact with are vulnerable.
Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon would be proud of you

If you are that paranoid about getting 'The Covid', then wear your mask, get your jab, social distance, stay away from mass gatherings and you should be OK! As for me, I'll take my chances. Cheers!

See, you're taking your chances, and the chances of others that won't be able to get vaccinated.

It's not about you.

I swear by my Chiro !!

Why?

Firstly I’m not 17 and flexible anymore ..
I’ve been a Painter & Decorator for 28 years ..
My body is stuffed ..
Without monthly visits to the Chiro I wouldn’t be able to work without being in constant pain ..
Painters neck & Sciatica

Why a Chiro and not a physio?

Physio is too brutal

Really?

Yes ..
I find Chiro works better for me ..
Nothing better than getting your neck snapped Steven Seagal style .

Big fan of acupuncture as well .

 

[happy_tiger]

I really hate that 'anti-vaxer' name tag. Just because someone may reject a particular vaccine against a particular disease, does not make that person anti vaccine per se.
If ebola reared it's ugly head in this country, I would be lining up to have my jab like most people. It does after all, have a 30% lethality.
I do not, however, intend getting a jab against this coronavirus. My belief is, and the stats would back this up, if you are reasonably healthy, then there is very little to concern yourself with.
If i was immuno-compromised, my decision may well be different.



Another person who couldnt give a rats about the fact that being a covid superspreader if they have it is ok because they are safe even if people they come into contact with are vulnerable.
Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon would be proud of you

If you are that paranoid about getting 'The Covid', then wear your mask, get your jab, social distance, stay away from mass gatherings and you should be OK! As for me, I'll take my chances. Cheers!

See, you're taking your chances, and the chances of others that won't be able to get vaccinated.

It's not about you.

I swear by my Chiro !!

Why?

Firstly I’m not 17 and flexible anymore ..
I’ve been a Painter & Decorator for 28 years ..
My body is stuffed ..
Without monthly visits to the Chiro I wouldn’t be able to work without being in constant pain ..
Painters neck & Sciatica

Go to a physio. They'll show you which muscles you need to work on.

Yeah just don't get the Lymphoedema Treatment ......I got about 10 minutes in and asked the Physio "is this for Fairies " and he replied "well your the 1st bloke I've ever given it to " lol ..all this relaxing music ...having hot glasses stuck to your back ...aroma stuff everywhere ...needless to say if LD was fatal I was gonna take my chances with non treatment

Did you listen to whale calls ?

Mermaids me thinks

 

[happy_tiger]

I really hate that 'anti-vaxer' name tag. Just because someone may reject a particular vaccine against a particular disease, does not make that person anti vaccine per se.
If ebola reared it's ugly head in this country, I would be lining up to have my jab like most people. It does after all, have a 30% lethality.
I do not, however, intend getting a jab against this coronavirus. My belief is, and the stats would back this up, if you are reasonably healthy, then there is very little to concern yourself with.
If i was immuno-compromised, my decision may well be different.



Another person who couldnt give a rats about the fact that being a covid superspreader if they have it is ok because they are safe even if people they come into contact with are vulnerable.
Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon would be proud of you

If you are that paranoid about getting 'The Covid', then wear your mask, get your jab, social distance, stay away from mass gatherings and you should be OK! As for me, I'll take my chances. Cheers!

See, you're taking your chances, and the chances of others that won't be able to get vaccinated.

It's not about you.

I swear by my Chiro !!

Why?

Firstly I’m not 17 and flexible anymore ..
I’ve been a Painter & Decorator for 28 years ..
My body is stuffed ..
Without monthly visits to the Chiro I wouldn’t be able to work without being in constant pain ..
Painters neck & Sciatica

Why a Chiro and not a physio?

Physio is too brutal

Really?

Some are ......used to have this tiny 5ft Maori lady and she would destroy me when I had hip and back issues

 

[jirskyr]

science is about longitudinal studies, especially when it comes to medicine. It’s about 10 year long evidence based research to see all possible effects. Yeh in theory vaccine is a great idea but that’s theoretical.

Sorry that's not how the pharmaceutical industry works. You mention you are in the healthcare sector, ok, but then you might have some knowledge that new drugs typically come to the market with only a few years of human testing.

The entire research from concept to implementation may take 10 years, but often it's 5-6 years in human trials. The total human research cohort is usually only a few thousand, unless it is an easy-to-enrol outcomes study like vaccines or cardiovascular.

The idea is to provide evidence (a) that the drug is safe, and (b) that it is effective. You then submit the data to the health authorities and they decide whether your research and findings are appropriate, then they grant approval to market.

Next there is post-marketing surveillance, where it is compulsory for all companies with a marketed product to follow up long-term safety outcomes for as long as their products are on the shelf.

Not meaning to sound patronising if you already know all that information, but pharma companies simply can't/won't wait for 10 years of efficacy data if they don't have to. This is especially true for unmet need indications like cancer, epilepsy, immune disorders... and COVID.

It is also horrendously expensive to research new drugs - typically half a billion to get a drug to market.

I can say this because I am a professional drug researcher of almost 20 years experience.

 

[jirskyr]

There will be two types of vaxxers in the next few years: those that accept the vaccine and those that only want domestic holidays.

 

[cochise]

science is about longitudinal studies, especially when it comes to medicine. It’s about 10 year long evidence based research to see all possible effects. Yeh in theory vaccine is a great idea but that’s theoretical.

Sorry that's not how the pharmaceutical industry works. You mention you are in the healthcare sector, ok, but then you might have some knowledge that new drugs typically come to the market with only a few years of human testing.

The entire research from concept to implementation may take 10 years, but often it's 5-6 years in human trials. The total human research cohort is usually only a few thousand, unless it is an easy-to-enrol outcomes study like vaccines or cardiovascular.

The idea is to provide evidence (a) that the drug is safe, and (b) that it is effective. You then submit the data to the health authorities and they decide whether your research and findings are appropriate, then they grant approval to market.

Next there is post-marketing surveillance, where it is compulsory for all companies with a marketed product to follow up long-term safety outcomes for as long as their products are on the shelf.

Not meaning to sound patronising if you already know all that information, but pharma companies simply can't/won't wait for 10 years of efficacy data if they don't have to. This is especially true for unmet need indications like cancer, epilepsy, immune disorders... and COVID.

It is also horrendously expensive to research new drugs - typically half a billion to get a drug to market.

I can say this because I am a professional drug researcher of almost 20 years experience.

What is your opinion on the vaccines currently being spoken about?

 

[jirskyr]

science is about longitudinal studies, especially when it comes to medicine. It’s about 10 year long evidence based research to see all possible effects. Yeh in theory vaccine is a great idea but that’s theoretical.

Sorry that's not how the pharmaceutical industry works. You mention you are in the healthcare sector, ok, but then you might have some knowledge that new drugs typically come to the market with only a few years of human testing.

The entire research from concept to implementation may take 10 years, but often it's 5-6 years in human trials. The total human research cohort is usually only a few thousand, unless it is an easy-to-enrol outcomes study like vaccines or cardiovascular.

The idea is to provide evidence (a) that the drug is safe, and (b) that it is effective. You then submit the data to the health authorities and they decide whether your research and findings are appropriate, then they grant approval to market.

Next there is post-marketing surveillance, where it is compulsory for all companies with a marketed product to follow up long-term safety outcomes for as long as their products are on the shelf.

Not meaning to sound patronising if you already know all that information, but pharma companies simply can't/won't wait for 10 years of efficacy data if they don't have to. This is especially true for unmet need indications like cancer, epilepsy, immune disorders... and COVID.

It is also horrendously expensive to research new drugs - typically half a billion to get a drug to market.

I can say this because I am a professional drug researcher of almost 20 years experience.

What is your opinion on the vaccines currently being spoken about?

I can't say really, I don't think they've released any hard data except press statements about their interim analyses.

An interim analysis is where you take a data cut at a predetermined mid-point in the study and take a look at the outcomes and safety. Usually it is used for safety purposes, although sometimes there's an extremely positive (rare) or negative (a bit less rare) signal that might influence the outcome of the study. For example, a hugely negative signal and they might terminate the study; this might typically be outstanding lack of efficacy or serious adverse events.

Normally however there's "a bit of a signal" and they continue on as planned.

If I'm not mistaken they haven't actually finished any of their studies yet, so they are still some months off. All seem to be designed to wait for "X" number of COVID cases, then compare the vaccine against placebo. Hence why we are doing bugger all COVID enrolment in Australia, because we don't have the case load.

However, getting (a) positive efficacy data in an interim cut, and (b) not seeing major safety issues is all promosing, obviously. Good also that there's multiple approaches that may have positive outcomes, so it's not all eggs in one basket. Pfizer and Modern have basically the same technology being studied.

Also, just to point out, an interim signal is nice but the studies can still fail. You have to be careful with interim signals, because by definition they are not complete. Most studies are statistically powered such that they need a minimum # of cases/enrolments to prove their hypothesis.

It will be a few months yet, but at least the leading candidates aren't failing.

 

[cochise]

science is about longitudinal studies, especially when it comes to medicine. It’s about 10 year long evidence based research to see all possible effects. Yeh in theory vaccine is a great idea but that’s theoretical.

Sorry that's not how the pharmaceutical industry works. You mention you are in the healthcare sector, ok, but then you might have some knowledge that new drugs typically come to the market with only a few years of human testing.

The entire research from concept to implementation may take 10 years, but often it's 5-6 years in human trials. The total human research cohort is usually only a few thousand, unless it is an easy-to-enrol outcomes study like vaccines or cardiovascular.

The idea is to provide evidence (a) that the drug is safe, and (b) that it is effective. You then submit the data to the health authorities and they decide whether your research and findings are appropriate, then they grant approval to market.

Next there is post-marketing surveillance, where it is compulsory for all companies with a marketed product to follow up long-term safety outcomes for as long as their products are on the shelf.

Not meaning to sound patronising if you already know all that information, but pharma companies simply can't/won't wait for 10 years of efficacy data if they don't have to. This is especially true for unmet need indications like cancer, epilepsy, immune disorders... and COVID.

It is also horrendously expensive to research new drugs - typically half a billion to get a drug to market.

I can say this because I am a professional drug researcher of almost 20 years experience.

What is your opinion on the vaccines currently being spoken about?

I can't say really, I don't think they've released any hard data except press statements about their interim analyses.

An interim analysis is where you take a data cut at a predetermined mid-point in the study and take a look at the outcomes and safety. Usually it is used for safety purposes, although sometimes there's an extremely positive (rare) or negative (a bit less rare) signal that might influence the outcome of the study. For example, a hugely negative signal and they might terminate the study; this might typically be outstanding lack of efficacy or serious adverse events.

Normally however there's "a bit of a signal" and they continue on as planned.

If I'm not mistaken they haven't actually finished any of their studies yet, so they are still some months off. All seem to be designed to wait for "X" number of COVID cases, then compare the vaccine against placebo. Hence why we are doing bugger all COVID enrolment in Australia, because we don't have the case load.

However, getting (a) positive efficacy data in an interim cut, and (b) not seeing major safety issues is all promosing, obviously. Good also that there's multiple approaches that may have positive outcomes, so it's not all eggs in one basket. Pfizer and Modern have basically the same technology being studied.

Also, just to point out, an interim signal is nice but the studies can still fail. You have to be careful with interim signals, because by definition they are not complete. Most studies are statistically powered such that they need a minimum # of cases/enrolments to prove their hypothesis.

It will be a few months yet, but at least the leading candidates aren't failing.

Thanks for the info mate, hopefully things continue and the world can get to a point where things return more towards normality