Defence & Effort where has it gone?

[Deleted member 3518]

Maguire owns this has been here for 2 seasons the last month has been a disaster no use blaming the players they don’t even look like there coached !

To be fair to Coach he has been given a team with very poor recruitment decisions that he cannot do anything with until they expiry. Packer, Reynolds, Moses, McQueen, etc..

No one wants them so we have no choice but to wait until there contracts end unless we pay most of their salary to play elsewhere.

I feel for Madge as deep down he would love to come out and say what we all know (shit players) but he has to keep positive for the younger players and not open us up for a media circus. If he said that the media would be all over us every day and the morale / recruitment would be gone. He is on a hiding to nothing because if he blasts the players the media write how his lost control of the dressing room etc.. but for me the experience player we have are just not good enough and that's been proven year after year.. NO LEADERS at all.

Plus lets be honest for the roster he has been given we should be in the bottom 4 teams but he is a class coach - There would only be maybe 2 coaches that could do better with this team (Robinson & Belly) as the rest would struggle..

Unfortunately 2022 will be his first year he can have full control of this team unless we strike GOLD and lose Packer, Moses & Reynolds.

yeah but the team this year is more his team
than last year and we’re worse. I don’t buy that excuse.

Understand what you are saying however this is still not his team at all.
- If you have Moses, Packer, McQueen, Reynolds & Farah salary Cap Breach which is around 2 to 2.5mil of your salary cap (roughly 25%) and they give you absolutely Nothing in return its extremely hard to win.
You cannot blame the Coach for past terrible recruitment decisions.. Have a look what these guys give you every week and its just embarrassing for the money that are on. You have to play them as there is nothing else in the cupboard to play with and no money to buy better.

Coach has brought LL (very impressive from the player last year) , AD ( playing injured but gets over 200m a game and very safe under the high ball) , Harry Grant swap (going pretty good) & Joey (Not as good unfortunately).
He has brought some excellent young talent for next year Blore, Stefo, ASU, etc..

But if you think this is more his team this year you are kidding yourself (Youth Yes I agree it is but not the main Players that take up your cap).

I will be very happy when we can lose Packer, Moses, Reynolds (McQueen Gone this year) and the coach picks the players he wants. Than we can start judging him..

Yeah but all those guys were there last year too. So why are we worse this year? Why have we gone backwards?

Because , they’re all a year older mate . And they’ve lost a step . It’s a cliff . It’s not a gentle slope.
The real issue is brooks is having a down year . And despite all the previous whinging about him , this is his actual first year of bad footy . Not footy that’s good , but people want Joey Johns resurrected , so they complain.
Because now we have lost that dude , who intercepts the ball on the 5 and runs away to score . Or does the 1 on 1 strip with the game on the line. He’s playing with no confidence , so the 1% stuff some of us have always seen, isn’t happening . But tonight he tried his guts out .

What about swapping Joey with Mbye ?
Brooks can tackle , so Joey might actually stay on his man , and Mbye is a much better defender than , Joey , so he can help with the right side .
To me , that right side is an abomination. And that’s our issue , and has been all year

 

[hsvjones]

Maguire owns this has been here for 2 seasons the last month has been a disaster no use blaming the players they don’t even look like there coached !

To be fair to Coach he has been given a team with very poor recruitment decisions that he cannot do anything with until they expiry. Packer, Reynolds, Moses, McQueen, etc..

No one wants them so we have no choice but to wait until there contracts end unless we pay most of their salary to play elsewhere.

I feel for Madge as deep down he would love to come out and say what we all know (shit players) but he has to keep positive for the younger players and not open us up for a media circus. If he said that the media would be all over us every day and the morale / recruitment would be gone. He is on a hiding to nothing because if he blasts the players the media write how his lost control of the dressing room etc.. but for me the experience player we have are just not good enough and that's been proven year after year.. NO LEADERS at all.

Plus lets be honest for the roster he has been given we should be in the bottom 4 teams but he is a class coach - There would only be maybe 2 coaches that could do better with this team (Robinson & Belly) as the rest would struggle..

Unfortunately 2022 will be his first year he can have full control of this team unless we strike GOLD and lose Packer, Moses & Reynolds.

yeah but the team this year is more his team
than last year and we’re worse. I don’t buy that excuse.

Understand what you are saying however this is still not his team at all.
- If you have Moses, Packer, McQueen, Reynolds & Farah salary Cap Breach which is around 2 to 2.5mil of your salary cap (roughly 25%) and they give you absolutely Nothing in return its extremely hard to win.
You cannot blame the Coach for past terrible recruitment decisions.. Have a look what these guys give you every week and its just embarrassing for the money that are on. You have to play them as there is nothing else in the cupboard to play with and no money to buy better.

Coach has brought LL (very impressive from the player last year) , AD ( playing injured but gets over 200m a game and very safe under the high ball) , Harry Grant swap (going pretty good) & Joey (Not as good unfortunately).
He has brought some excellent young talent for next year Blore, Stefo, ASU, etc..

But if you think this is more his team this year you are kidding yourself (Youth Yes I agree it is but not the main Players that take up your cap).

I will be very happy when we can lose Packer, Moses, Reynolds (McQueen Gone this year) and the coach picks the players he wants. Than we can start judging him..

Yeah but all those guys were there last year too. So why are we worse this year? Why have we gone backwards?

Mate to be honest I think its the experience players letting us down.. All these young players need not just experience players but experience WINNING players and all of our ones are not winners unfortunately (When younger Yes but not for 5+ years). We really need to add some hard nose experienced players from winning cultures but we just don't have the funds until we turn over the players I mentioned before..
I've said it before but we lack a players like Wade Graham or JWH that set the standard and leads by example consistently and not just a few games a year.. But once again it come back to the fact our money is held up with overpaid rubbish players that he didn't buy.

We all want them our Team to win as I've had enough but I truly think we have the right coach on board and just need to turn some players over.

Hey I think they’re playing bad too. But my point is we are worse than last year. Doesn’t make sense.

We are playing terrible which doesn't help.

Our Halves need to be address desperately i think - I just looked at a picture on Fox Sports of Souths halves (Walker and Reynolds) and made me think.. When was the last time our halves played well and controlled a game like these guys do. You see them yelling instruction to team mates and just making sure it all works but our guys just kicked bombs and hope it works out..

IDK anymore, maybe all these loses and losing season are taking a toll :face_with_thermometer:

 

[izotope]

Maguire owns this has been here for 2 seasons the last month has been a disaster no use blaming the players they don’t even look like there coached !

To be fair to Coach he has been given a team with very poor recruitment decisions that he cannot do anything with until they expiry. Packer, Reynolds, Moses, McQueen, etc..

No one wants them so we have no choice but to wait until there contracts end unless we pay most of their salary to play elsewhere.

I feel for Madge as deep down he would love to come out and say what we all know (shit players) but he has to keep positive for the younger players and not open us up for a media circus. If he said that the media would be all over us every day and the morale / recruitment would be gone. He is on a hiding to nothing because if he blasts the players the media write how his lost control of the dressing room etc.. but for me the experience player we have are just not good enough and that's been proven year after year.. NO LEADERS at all.

Plus lets be honest for the roster he has been given we should be in the bottom 4 teams but he is a class coach - There would only be maybe 2 coaches that could do better with this team (Robinson & Belly) as the rest would struggle..

Unfortunately 2022 will be his first year he can have full control of this team unless we strike GOLD and lose Packer, Moses & Reynolds.

yeah but the team this year is more his team
than last year and we’re worse. I don’t buy that excuse.

Understand what you are saying however this is still not his team at all.
- If you have Moses, Packer, McQueen, Reynolds & Farah salary Cap Breach which is around 2 to 2.5mil of your salary cap (roughly 25%) and they give you absolutely Nothing in return its extremely hard to win.
You cannot blame the Coach for past terrible recruitment decisions.. Have a look what these guys give you every week and its just embarrassing for the money that are on. You have to play them as there is nothing else in the cupboard to play with and no money to buy better.

Coach has brought LL (very impressive from the player last year) , AD ( playing injured but gets over 200m a game and very safe under the high ball) , Harry Grant swap (going pretty good) & Joey (Not as good unfortunately).
He has brought some excellent young talent for next year Blore, Stefo, ASU, etc..

But if you think this is more his team this year you are kidding yourself (Youth Yes I agree it is but not the main Players that take up your cap).

I will be very happy when we can lose Packer, Moses, Reynolds (McQueen Gone this year) and the coach picks the players he wants. Than we can start judging him..

Yeah but all those guys were there last year too. So why are we worse this year? Why have we gone backwards?

Mate to be honest I think its the experience players letting us down.. All these young players need not just experience players but experience WINNING players and all of our ones are not winners unfortunately (When younger Yes but not for 5+ years). We really need to add some hard nose experienced players from winning cultures but we just don't have the funds until we turn over the players I mentioned before..
I've said it before but we lack a players like Wade Graham or JWH that set the standard and leads by example consistently and not just a few games a year.. But once again it come back to the fact our money is held up with overpaid rubbish players that he didn't buy.

We all want them our Team to win as I've had enough but I truly think we have the right coach on board and just need to turn some players over.

Hey I think they’re playing bad too. But my point is we are worse than last year. Doesn’t make sense.

i agree the last month we are miles worse, the two months before we were miles better IMO

None of it makes sense to me

 

[boonboon]

We have played 5 decent defensive games this year when Benji wasnt starting

We also didnt let any points in v broncos but that said more about them then us.

We let in less then 20 points 2 other times - V Dragons and v Sharks - both games alll their points came through the Benji gap.

In all our other games they have run at Benji and whoever has been unfortunate enough to be the 2nd rower and scored a heap of points.

We cant afford to keep playing him.

Every game teams destroy that side and the reason is Benji and lack of a good 2nd rower.

 

[Telltails]

Harry Grant - we have gone backwards since he got injured. He gave us go forward and his work rate in defence is unmatched. Inspiratiional player.

 

[yeti]

I'm sick of coaches getting the blame all the time. As others have said, with 4 coaches in quick succession, we see the same crap. It's the players who need to go! Get these older guys who have dished up the same crap for years, out of here as soon as possible and work with the new young guys that can be taught from day one what the coach, supporters and club, expect to see. I will back Madge in this. The players are the ones refusing/unable to do their job in a professional manner. I understand completely why Madge only wants guys around the 20 year old mark. He can mold these young blokes into the type of player he needs.

 

[Tiger_heart]

But even e MEDIOCRE group - like the one we've seed - would at least put in the effort..Can't say this has been there, except for 1 or maybe 2 players. And as for the coaching:
1. You have an issue on the right side defense, a whole per-season to fix, and a whole season to adjust, and you still can't get it right?
2. Game plan - what exactly have we executed week in, week out?
3. Kicking game - we struggle for repeat sets, getting the ball to the in goal.
4. Brooks kicking...he's put up so many Hail Marys he's guaranteed a place in Heaven.
So if we assume that that's what the players (and not the coach) are capable of, surely one of the tasks of a good coach is to address these shortcomings - all I am saying is that I haven't actually seen what Madge has managed to do for any of this. And why sign with us, knowing the players are what they are, if you don't think you can make a change??

 

[Tiger_heart]

I'm sick of coaches getting the blame all the time. As others have said, with 4 coaches in quick succession, we see the same crap.

Remind me again who these coaches are coaching now? With the exception of Cleary - I am not even sure they have job, currently.

It's the players who need to go! Get these older guys who have dished up the same crap for years, out of here as soon as possible and work with the new young guys that can be taught from day one what the coach, supporters and club, expect to see. I will back Madge in this. The players are the ones refusing/unable to do their job in a professional manner. I understand completely why Madge only wants guys around the 20 year old mark. He can mold these young blokes into the type of player he needs.

100% - but when the same team is picked week in, week out, then how does this theory hold?

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

We have to persist with Madge. We've changed coaches four times since Sheens. Nothing changed. Time we backed the coach and let him clean out.

When do we call time on Madge though CB

Give the same time as Sheens. It's not going to make a difference. The coach isn't the problem.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

We have to persist with Madge. We've changed coaches four times since Sheens. Nothing changed. Time we backed the coach and let him clean out.

Yes, he's not the problem. But I fear the board won't have the balls to back him long term

I think he’s been a huge disappointment. Hoping he turns it around but we’ve gone backwards.

I wonder if a number have got the tap on the shoulder. Benji certainly is playing like he's been told this will be his last season (at least here anyway.)

 

[Snake]

But even e MEDIOCRE group - like the one we've seed - would at least put in the effort..Can't say this has been there, except for 1 or maybe 2 players. And as for the coaching:
1. You have an issue on the right side defense, a whole per-season to fix, and a whole season to adjust, and you still can't get it right?
2. Game plan - what exactly have we executed week in, week out?
3. Kicking game - we struggle for repeat sets, getting the ball to the in goal.
4. Brooks kicking...he's put up so many Hail Marys he's guaranteed a place in Heaven.
So if we assume that that's what the players (and not the coach) are capable of, surely one of the tasks of a good coach is to address these shortcomings - all I am saying is that I haven't actually seen what Madge has managed to do for any of this. And why sign with us, knowing the players are what they are, if you don't think you can make a change??

No one wants to see the the real picture .. the team is performing worse than it was last season , who is responsible? The roster is poor but the coaching is also poor anyone that thinks differently are deceiving themselves .

 

[Deleted member 3518]

But even e MEDIOCRE group - like the one we've seed - would at least put in the effort..Can't say this has been there, except for 1 or maybe 2 players. And as for the coaching:
1. You have an issue on the right side defense, a whole per-season to fix, and a whole season to adjust, and you still can't get it right?
2. Game plan - what exactly have we executed week in, week out?
3. Kicking game - we struggle for repeat sets, getting the ball to the in goal.
4. Brooks kicking...he's put up so many Hail Marys he's guaranteed a place in Heaven.
So if we assume that that's what the players (and not the coach) are capable of, surely one of the tasks of a good coach is to address these shortcomings - all I am saying is that I haven't actually seen what Madge has managed to do for any of this. And why sign with us, knowing the players are what they are, if you don't think you can make a change??


No one wants to see the the real picture .. the team is performing worse than it was last season , who is responsible? The roster is poor but the coaching is also poor anyone that thinks differently are deceiving themselves .

No mate , the issue isn’t the coach . Nor is it one player . As I stated earlier, it’s the fact in 2017 when the big 4 left , Simona did his thing , many juniors left , and the Taylor , Potter , Cleary retentions strategy was anus , we killed our next 5 years . Cleary recognised this , but selfishly signed old players , to win a few games and look good enough to move to another club . Totally killing us. In the last 2 years we have signed a plethora of young players to finally form a foundation for the future . But that doesn’t happen tomorrow , that takes 2-3 years .
As stated in another thread , the rebuild started 2018. Prior to that it was selfish coaches making short term decisions . Hartigan and Madge have been told , fix this! Do what you need to do . And they are.
Here’s a rundown of the Madge signings ;
Stefano, Luciano , Blore , Simpkins, Hoffman , the Parra eels cluster (all junior reps) , Joey, Musgrove , Doueihi , Jennings . Apart from Jennings all those guys are guns , and apart from Joey all are under 23.
That’s something sustainable there . I’m glad we are going crap , proper crap , because , there’s no more band aid options . We are cut open , and everyone can see the scars ... finally . And all the older players here for a retirement fund , are the ones causing us to lose . That’s a fact . The 3 worst players on the field last night were Cleary signings , including benji . And I’m not bagging benji, he has done a great job . But it’s time to blood the youth , because they old Boys , just arnt competing anymore .

 

[pawsandclaws1]

But even e MEDIOCRE group - like the one we've seed - would at least put in the effort..Can't say this has been there, except for 1 or maybe 2 players. And as for the coaching:
1. You have an issue on the right side defense, a whole per-season to fix, and a whole season to adjust, and you still can't get it right?
2. Game plan - what exactly have we executed week in, week out?
3. Kicking game - we struggle for repeat sets, getting the ball to the in goal.
4. Brooks kicking...he's put up so many Hail Marys he's guaranteed a place in Heaven.
So if we assume that that's what the players (and not the coach) are capable of, surely one of the tasks of a good coach is to address these shortcomings - all I am saying is that I haven't actually seen what Madge has managed to do for any of this. And why sign with us, knowing the players are what they are, if you don't think you can make a change??


No one wants to see the the real picture .. the team is performing worse than it was last season , who is responsible? The roster is poor but the coaching is also poor anyone that thinks differently are deceiving themselves .

No mate , the issue isn’t the coach . Nor is it one player . As I stated earlier, it’s the fact in 2017 when the big 4 left , Simona did his thing , many juniors left , and the Taylor , Potter , Cleary retentions strategy was anus , we killed our next 5 years . Cleary recognised this , but selfishly signed old players , to win a few games and look good enough to move to another club . Totally killing us. In the last 2 years we have signed a plethora of young players to finally form a foundation for the future . But that doesn’t happen tomorrow , that takes 2-3 years .
As stated in another thread , the rebuild started 2018. Prior to that it was selfish coaches making short term decisions . Hartigan and Madge have been told , fix this! Do what you need to do . And they are.
Here’s a rundown of the Madge signings ;
Stefano, Luciano , Blore , Simpkins, Hoffman , the Parra eels cluster (all junior reps) , Joey, Musgrove , Doueihi , Jennings . Apart from Jennings all those guys are guns , and apart from Joey all are under 23.
That’s something sustainable there . I’m glad we are going crap , proper crap , because , there’s no more band aid options . We are cut open , and everyone can see the scars ... finally . And all the older players here for a retirement fund , are the ones causing us to lose . That’s a fact . The 3 worst players on the field last night were Cleary signings , including benji . And I’m not bagging benji, he has done a great job . But it’s time to blood the youth , because they old Boys , just arnt competing anymore .

Good post. We are in good hands.

 

[voice_of_reason]

We have played 5 decent defensive games this year when Benji wasnt starting

In all our other games they have run at Benji and whoever has been unfortunate enough to be the 2nd rower and scored a heap of points.
We cant afford to keep playing him.

Every game teams destroy that side and the reason is Benji and lack of a good 2nd rower.

Astute assessment. Whilst some prefer to lay blame on the wingers, it's been clear for years where the problems - particularly on the right side - start.

Benji has never been a great defender and as he's gotten older, slower and more wounded his standard has continued to drop. Your point on his second rower is also valid. I feel for Garner and Rowdy as they are often faced with defending two players which makes their own defence look poor.

Needless to say the accelerating whip of blame cracks loudest on Nofo and how he's a defensive liability when the reality is the problems continue to occur 20 metres infield.

I'm Benji's biggest fan but he's sadly damaging his legacy. I like Madge as a coach but if he keeps picking Benji after his recent defensive performances I can only assume he's favouring sentimentalism over team performance.

 

[earl]

I have felt for a long, long time that we overstate our "good efforts". We play a month of solid footy and out they all come on media day saying new culture / new attitude / new era...but it never lasts.

And all teams...ALL teams...have a solid month. Dogs took Parra all the way. Saints have had a solid past month.

NRL is a long, tough, season...and we simply do not have the ticker for it. Have not had it for a long time.

Gareth Ellis was our last really high level performer **over a whole season**. A bloke who you knew what you would get every week / really high level footy.

This is spot on. You have to judge the performance over the course of the season. We don't seem to be able to play high quality footy consistently.

 

[earl]

But even e MEDIOCRE group - like the one we've seed - would at least put in the effort..Can't say this has been there, except for 1 or maybe 2 players. And as for the coaching:
1. You have an issue on the right side defense, a whole per-season to fix, and a whole season to adjust, and you still can't get it right?
2. Game plan - what exactly have we executed week in, week out?
3. Kicking game - we struggle for repeat sets, getting the ball to the in goal.
4. Brooks kicking...he's put up so many Hail Marys he's guaranteed a place in Heaven.
So if we assume that that's what the players (and not the coach) are capable of, surely one of the tasks of a good coach is to address these shortcomings - all I am saying is that I haven't actually seen what Madge has managed to do for any of this. And why sign with us, knowing the players are what they are, if you don't think you can make a change??


No one wants to see the the real picture .. the team is performing worse than it was last season , who is responsible? The roster is poor but the coaching is also poor anyone that thinks differently are deceiving themselves .

No mate , the issue isn’t the coach . Nor is it one player . As I stated earlier, it’s the fact in 2017 when the big 4 left , Simona did his thing , many juniors left , and the Taylor , Potter , Cleary retentions strategy was anus , we killed our next 5 years . Cleary recognised this , but selfishly signed old players , to win a few games and look good enough to move to another club . Totally killing us. In the last 2 years we have signed a plethora of young players to finally form a foundation for the future . But that doesn’t happen tomorrow , that takes 2-3 years .
As stated in another thread , the rebuild started 2018. Prior to that it was selfish coaches making short term decisions . Hartigan and Madge have been told , fix this! Do what you need to do . And they are.
Here’s a rundown of the Madge signings ;
Stefano, Luciano , Blore , Simpkins, Hoffman , the Parra eels cluster (all junior reps) , Joey, Musgrove , Doueihi , Jennings . Apart from Jennings all those guys are guns , and apart from Joey all are under 23.
That’s something sustainable there . I’m glad we are going crap , proper crap , because , there’s no more band aid options . We are cut open , and everyone can see the scars ... finally . And all the older players here for a retirement fund , are the ones causing us to lose . That’s a fact . The 3 worst players on the field last night were Cleary signings , including benji . And I’m not bagging benji, he has done a great job . But it’s time to blood the youth , because they old Boys , just arnt competing anymore .

I'm actually pretty positive. There are heaps of good signs but you can't turn a club around quickly after our salary cap debacles.

 

[happy_tiger]

No one is arguing our salary cap is a mess ......but the side should be improving on 2019 with all the new players we have brought in

It hasn't happened and you could argue we've actually gone backwards

Look at the 3 ,2 and 1 votes ......people were giving Lucy 1 vote and he lost us the game in the 1st 15 minutes ......after Liddle and Douehi and to to a lesser extent Brooks no one deserved a mention

So maybe 4 out of 17 get a mention ......thats a joke ...game on the line ...season on the line .....nup turn your toes up

 

[Aesopian]

No one is arguing our salary cap is a mess ......but the side should be improving on 2019 with all the new players we have brought in

It hasn't happened and you could argue we've actually gone backwards

Look at the 3 ,2 and 1 votes ......people were giving Lucy 1 vote and he lost us the game in the 1st 15 minutes ......after Liddle and Douehi and to to a lesser extent Brooks no one deserved a mention

So maybe 4 out of 17 get a mention ......thats a joke ...game on the line ...season on the line .....nup turn your toes up

We’re crabbing eternally sideways. It’s like we’re turning left at every street, just driving around the block and ending up exactly where we started.

2017 14th, 2018 9th, 2019 9th, 2020 probs 9th-14th...
Looks like we’re exactly where we’ve always been. No better no worse.

It’s clear some sides have streaked away compared to the rest. The new rules have had a lot bigger impact than I previously imagined and the result is that the faster, more mobile and agile sides are leading the way.

I reckon sheensy would’ve loved these new rules. The 05 side was built for this style of footy with agile backs and ball playing forwards. Perfect blueprint for how we need to play

 

[happy_tiger]

No one is arguing our salary cap is a mess ......but the side should be improving on 2019 with all the new players we have brought in

It hasn't happened and you could argue we've actually gone backwards

Look at the 3 ,2 and 1 votes ......people were giving Lucy 1 vote and he lost us the game in the 1st 15 minutes ......after Liddle and Douehi and to to a lesser extent Brooks no one deserved a mention

So maybe 4 out of 17 get a mention ......thats a joke ...game on the line ...season on the line .....nup turn your toes up

We’re crabbing eternally sideways. It’s like we’re turning left at every street, just driving around the block and ending up exactly where we started.

2017 14th, 2018 9th, 2019 9th, 2020 probs 9th-14th...
Looks like we’re exactly where we’ve always been. No better no worse.

It’s clear some sides have streaked away compared to the rest. The new rules have had a lot bigger impact than I previously imagined and the result is that the faster, more mobile and agile sides are leading the way.

I reckon sheensy would’ve loved these new rules. The 05 side was built for this style of footy with agile backs and ball playing forwards. Perfect blueprint for how we need to play

Nah .....the wrestle still exists .....our 2005 forwards would've been smashed to smithereens still

Honestly who is the last forward we have had with mobility and size to make a break .....it make you think ......I'm thinking Daine Laurie

 

[Telltails]

Last nights stats are remarkable. The effort was there but the quality wasn't. We matched and exceeded item in run metres and post contact metres - and had more dominant tackles and less missed tackles. But they had 10 line beaks to our 5 and of those they probably scored off most.
Speed and execution the difference.