CocaCola
Active member
@jirskyr said:
Fixed your post.
Four Good players??
- Thread starter magpiecol
- Start date
Fixed your post.
jirskyr
Well-known member
@bigsiro said:
Only if you are happy to let someone like Woods or Brooks go. If yes, then sure.
If you want to keep these kids, there is no money left over for anyone else of note.
@jirskyr said:
This is what i find interesting, what makes you think that? Brooks and Moses are supposedly on 650k each already. Going off reports they are looking at offers around 700k so we basically only need to find 100k extra to keep them.
At the members meeting at the start of the year it was said that the club had room to sign some quality players for next year so unless they thought they would pick up a few good players for 100k what has changed?
jirskyr
Well-known member
@Bones said:
Quality sure. Marquee? I don't see how.
Farah's money is huge right now, for another year or so, and much of the dividends of it probably go to the young guns. We also let Marty Taupau go early to free up funds to retain - I assume - Broses.
Tedesco will be a NSW Origin fullback by the time he's negotiating his next contract for 2018\. Woodsie is signed to 2017 with another year option in his favour, at which time he will be only 27.
I'm also not sure in which position we'd sign a marquee. Do we want Cooper Cronk, 32 and last contract? Can we afford a world-class centre?
I look around at the other clubs and I don't think a single one has more than 4 elite-level players, the magic number. Most clubs have 3\. If Woods - Tedesco - Broses become our major players, and if one of Cherry or Liddle comes to prominence, I just can't see space for another rep-level player, not without the kind of regional bias teams like Storm and Broncos can flex.
bigsiro
Well-known member
Look at some excellent players that have moved clubs for 2016 (not all "marquee"). Foran, Roberts, Jennings, Maloney, RTS, Isaac Luke, Merrin, Burgess, Copley, Sezer, Hodkinson, Tim Lafai, Michael Gordon, Dylan Walker, Nate Myles, Beau Scott and there are many more.
Most clubs don't have the "creative accounting" abilities of the Broncos or Roosters but still, almost every club has been playing musical chairs/players. EXCEPT US. We just aren't even in the market. And why? Because we are gambling on Broses? (love it by the way….). I want Broses to thrive but if I am being objective then re-signing them at the expense of a proper marquee player seems madness. Established marquee players bring confidence, winning mentality, fans through the gates and the also make us more attractive for other class signings.
Some teams find funds through 3rd parties; there is just no excuse for us not to be in on this! Some find the $ by releasing players. Broncos let Copley go (who I think is an excellent centre) in order to upgrade to a remarkable centre in Roberts. (Note: every player on our team is expendable IMO except for Teddy and maybe Farah ... groan).
So I am totally sick of the "we're poor" excuse. If every other team can compete for top players on an annual basis then so should we. The most ambitious NRL clubs have always found ways to exploit a flawed salary cap system. This has gone on for yonks and invariably success has followed them. We know this. But still we don't emulate them. (I_nsanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Albert Einstein_)
This is not the EPL or the NBA, this is NRL where all you need to raise is a few hundred thousand in TPA in order to attract top quality. It is hardly mega bucks. But still we cry poor. Really???
And this pathetic poison of an excuse has been fed to our fans for so long that we not only believe it but we now feed it to other fans as a acceptable excuse for our inferiority. The WT propaganda machine has done well. Sadly, it has affected me too. When someone like Merrin or Jennings becomes available I know full well that they will go anywhere but here.
We need to shake off this inferiority mentality and consistently attract top players. This old and tired "poor" excuse is well past its used by date. Management need to be accountable for this - we should not tolerate it anymore!
Most clubs don't have the "creative accounting" abilities of the Broncos or Roosters but still, almost every club has been playing musical chairs/players. EXCEPT US. We just aren't even in the market. And why? Because we are gambling on Broses? (love it by the way….). I want Broses to thrive but if I am being objective then re-signing them at the expense of a proper marquee player seems madness. Established marquee players bring confidence, winning mentality, fans through the gates and the also make us more attractive for other class signings.
Some teams find funds through 3rd parties; there is just no excuse for us not to be in on this! Some find the $ by releasing players. Broncos let Copley go (who I think is an excellent centre) in order to upgrade to a remarkable centre in Roberts. (Note: every player on our team is expendable IMO except for Teddy and maybe Farah ... groan).
So I am totally sick of the "we're poor" excuse. If every other team can compete for top players on an annual basis then so should we. The most ambitious NRL clubs have always found ways to exploit a flawed salary cap system. This has gone on for yonks and invariably success has followed them. We know this. But still we don't emulate them. (I_nsanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Albert Einstein_)
This is not the EPL or the NBA, this is NRL where all you need to raise is a few hundred thousand in TPA in order to attract top quality. It is hardly mega bucks. But still we cry poor. Really???
And this pathetic poison of an excuse has been fed to our fans for so long that we not only believe it but we now feed it to other fans as a acceptable excuse for our inferiority. The WT propaganda machine has done well. Sadly, it has affected me too. When someone like Merrin or Jennings becomes available I know full well that they will go anywhere but here.
We need to shake off this inferiority mentality and consistently attract top players. This old and tired "poor" excuse is well past its used by date. Management need to be accountable for this - we should not tolerate it anymore!
jirskyr
Well-known member
@bigsiro said:
I both agree with parts and disagree with parts of what you say.
We certainly do not appear to be one of those clubs with good creative accounting or lucrative backers. Maybe it's changing, with the comments Uncle Harry has been making about TPAs. Maybe we are still learning how to be one of the more clever clubs, and maybe it has been a while coming because previous administrations really had no idea and put us in a big salary cap hole that we are only just climbing out of.
The examples you give, yes they are quality signings. But I'd argue almost all of them are targeted signings of teams with less elite-level players, for specific holes in the roster. Or they made space for these signings
E.g. Parra got Foran, Jennings, Scott. All true, but they lost Hayne and Hopoate to do so. And with all the rumours about being penalised for exceeding the cap, it appears they did not balance or cook their books properly.
Manly picked up Walker, Taupau, Myles, Brown - a strong recruitment drive. But they offloaded so many players to allow this to happen, not just nuffies but guys like Watmough and Foran.
Souths cleared Walker, Luke and McQueen to make Burgess happen.
Raiders have a fairly budget side - arguably Papalii is their only top-flight player.
Warriors got RTS and Luke, but let Tomkins, Friend and Townsend go as part of that strategy. They are a regional team and really should be a side that can flex TPAs. They have Johnson, but their second biggest name in 2015 was… Vatuvei? Ben Matulino? Charlie Gubb?
And Penrith? Man they just keep on with the clear-outs, not surprised they could afford a Merrin after the players they've let go in the last few year. Gordon, Lewis, Jennings, Grant, Blake Austin, Idris, Sika Manu, Lewis Brown, Koroisau, Kev Naiqama, Coote, James Roberts, Masoe, Brad Tighe, Luke Walsh.
So I'm not specifically against trying to sign the best players from other clubs, just that I don't think it always works out well, and sometimes it's better to work with the players you know. For every Gareth Ellis there is an Adam Blair.
And if we try and keep Broses, Woods, Tedesco, Simona, Cherrington, Nofo... then up and comers like Liddle, Felise, Tatola... that looks to me to be most of our money spent.
We've already recruited some decent players recently - Naiqama, Grant, Edwards, JAC, Aloiai. I think that strategy is working, to retain our core players and supplement with decent-quality and hopefully somewhat experienced footballers. It works for Melbourne!!
Ah you had me right up to when you said …..Brad Tighe...
The important thing is Wests Tigers only have about 70% of the cap spend allocated for 2017 and an absolute clean slate for 2018...this should allow us to retain who we want to retain and go into a Market where grubby player managers have all the majority of their clients off contract in anticipation of the increase in salary cap from the new broadcast deal...
The important thing is Wests Tigers only have about 70% of the cap spend allocated for 2017 and an absolute clean slate for 2018...this should allow us to retain who we want to retain and go into a Market where grubby player managers have all the majority of their clients off contract in anticipation of the increase in salary cap from the new broadcast deal...
I like where JT, Pascoe are taking the Team.
Furthermore to what Geo says about the next 2 years above I urge the FANatics to remember we are rebuilding and for the first time in 10 years there is method and what seems like a plan which is more than the optimism we have all clung on to since 2000
Furthermore to what Geo says about the next 2 years above I urge the FANatics to remember we are rebuilding and for the first time in 10 years there is method and what seems like a plan which is more than the optimism we have all clung on to since 2000
@Geo. said:
That is my understanding. If we lose anyone i don't think it will be because we can't match the offers they have, it will be because we choose not to based on squad balance.
Having said that i still think there are several thing to play out over the next 12 months. I'm still not convinced Farah will be here next year (gut feel only), the situation with Lawrence is going to be key given he is also on big money next year, and i also think some tough calls are going to need to be made in retention with players who aren't quiet living up to their potential.
bigsiro
Well-known member
@jirskyr said:
True. It doesn't always work out as hoped. But c'est la vie, that's what you get when you take a punt. Remember that Ellis was more of an unknown than Blair and therefore arguably came with greater risk.
@jirskyr said:
Not to me it doesn't. I don't know the intricacies of their contracts nor am I privvy to their TPA's. But if that was were most of our money went then that would be a terrible misuse of funds. Give me a marquee player anyday over every Liddle, Felise and Tatola. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
@jirskyr said:
I like that approach and those recruits are definitely valuable. Remember that Melbourne's experienced footballers are top top echelon. Ours are the next level - at best. Regardless I'd take Jennings over Naiqama and Merrin over Grant. They are worth more to this club than their price tag. They indicate to the rest that we mean business.
Anyway - good fodder. Hopefully we beat Parra and Kev scores a hatrick on Jennings.
I don't know about 'marquee' players, but we definitely need to make some noise in the market unless we want to continue looking in on the top 8 for the foreseeable future.
Our back row is probably the weakest in the competition, we have poor depth up front and we lack a genuine gamebreaker in the 3/4 line.
Yes, we have some good players and some that will hopefully develop into good players. But to win a comp in this era, you basically need a team of guys playing to rep-level standard. We are eons away.
Our back row is probably the weakest in the competition, we have poor depth up front and we lack a genuine gamebreaker in the 3/4 line.
Yes, we have some good players and some that will hopefully develop into good players. But to win a comp in this era, you basically need a team of guys playing to rep-level standard. We are eons away.
Normally agree "bigsiro" but I would take Kev over Jennings any day of the week. Sure he is a SOO player but he is a bludger of the highest order. Hardly ever goes looking for the ball, hardly ever helps out, making metres from his own line and just about never puts his body on the line. Kev on the other hand does all of these things. Not as experienced but comes at a fraction of the cost and is getting better with every game. I remember when half the Forum wanted to drop him and x amount of others wanted to move him to the wing (he is not a winger), not so many calls for this lately.
You say "I want Broses to thrive but if I am being objective then re-signing them at the expense of a proper marquee player seems madness."
If you let them go, we have Rankin and Littlejohn (like them both but….?). They are both good signings but to be half the spine. Therefore you need a marquee player to fill at least one of the half spots... only one I know that would be available is Cronk who is at the end of his career. In my opinion I don't think that would be a good move. Hunt, Johnson, DCE, Thurston, Mbye, Reynolds and Forun are all tied up. Pearce is a loser and anyone else is not as good as we already have.
So I think the best option we have is to retain Brooks and Moses. Have always said Moses will be a champion, Brooks not so sure but will be more than capable.
If you need a marquee player and we have spare cash (be it left over or a TPA) go for it, but what position and whom do we target. I think the backline is coming along nicely. Therefore I would lean to a forward; hooker is good - Farah, Ballin, Cherro and Liddle. Front row - Brooks, Grant, Ava (?) + a number of ordinary guys. Back row - Sironen, Rowdy, Aloiai, MCK + ordinary guys and at Lock we have Sue and Edwards. Someone may spring to the fore e.g Parahi, Griffin or Cassel but who knows. Then you are looking for a front or back rower. Klemmer or ?
That is the way I see it but I really don't think we need to spend a fortune on one player. Top up the good ones we have and maybe buy a couple more like we invested in this time.
You say "I want Broses to thrive but if I am being objective then re-signing them at the expense of a proper marquee player seems madness."
If you let them go, we have Rankin and Littlejohn (like them both but….?). They are both good signings but to be half the spine. Therefore you need a marquee player to fill at least one of the half spots... only one I know that would be available is Cronk who is at the end of his career. In my opinion I don't think that would be a good move. Hunt, Johnson, DCE, Thurston, Mbye, Reynolds and Forun are all tied up. Pearce is a loser and anyone else is not as good as we already have.
So I think the best option we have is to retain Brooks and Moses. Have always said Moses will be a champion, Brooks not so sure but will be more than capable.
If you need a marquee player and we have spare cash (be it left over or a TPA) go for it, but what position and whom do we target. I think the backline is coming along nicely. Therefore I would lean to a forward; hooker is good - Farah, Ballin, Cherro and Liddle. Front row - Brooks, Grant, Ava (?) + a number of ordinary guys. Back row - Sironen, Rowdy, Aloiai, MCK + ordinary guys and at Lock we have Sue and Edwards. Someone may spring to the fore e.g Parahi, Griffin or Cassel but who knows. Then you are looking for a front or back rower. Klemmer or ?
That is the way I see it but I really don't think we need to spend a fortune on one player. Top up the good ones we have and maybe buy a couple more like we invested in this time.
jirskyr
Well-known member
@bigsiro said:
What about a marquee player for all 3 of Liddle, Felise and Tatola? We're talking 3 x $300K in 2016 (and that is probably overs for these kids) vs 1 x $900K.
jirskyr
Well-known member
@Geo. said:
Do you know I always had ambitions of opening up a restaurant in Newtown called "Brad Thai".
teddy23
Well-known member
@Russell said:
I think Corey Norman comes off contract this year if we lose either Brooks or Moses it would loosen up my pain if we got Norman.
bigsiro
Well-known member
@jirskyr said:
Deal! Where do I sign?
jirskyr
Well-known member
@bigsiro said:
On the dotted line.
You do realise we need to field a team of 17 each week, it's only Auckland 9s for 2 days per year?
Love_the_WestsTigers
Well-known member
Me. my cuzzy bro, the habib from down the road and his mate
There you have it, four good players on PS4 playing NRL Live 3
There you have it, four good players on PS4 playing NRL Live 3
