Future sucess of the Wests Tigers...

[TrueTiger]

Well fellow forumers,after reading many posts and topics regarding our great club,I have come to the conclusion that if we are to be a strong,viable club in the future,the board and management must completely overhaul the mechanics of the club..what I mean by this is,we have debated many things and have speculated on players young and experienced that we need,but first our finances must be sorted and that not only includes the salary cap it also entails marketing,sponsors,revenue injected by the Wests Ashfield group and other financial aids…

Let me say the common denominator in nearly every argument or plan has come down to not having money at our disposal.."the we are broke syndrome" readily comes to the fore..

We can argue all we like about who was the cause of the monetary malfunction,anyone who is a diehard supporter of this club has seen big money squandered,for little return,if any...
\
\
The speculation about our young players,the new coach,S&C staff and the board wether or not will be the rightchoice, is still to be seen..I really hope that it all starts to fall into place sooner than later,Iam quite aware of the numerous times we have been called a rabble and a team who underachieves ,now is the time to step up to a new level of sucess on the field and just as importantly off the field....

Clearly I can see that without a good bit of money behind us then we will battle every year,this is where the board and management must market us and save wherever they can,our sucess relies on their decisions...There is light at the end of the tunnel and the whole internal operations of this club has been given an excellent opportunity to put us on the road of future premiership sucess...it is in their hands now to establish a winning team and a greater membership base..Since they have been in place(the board) I honestly think we certainly are going in the right direction and it will take time..I will afford the club time,because I have since day one of this great club gone through good and bad,from now on it will be great......

 

[stevetiger]

I think they just had an overhaul.

 

[Nors05]

Mate, the club knew it needed an overhaul for a long time and has taken all the necessary steps. It doesn't happen overnight, it's a long arduous process with alot of politics involved. We have spent the last 3 years cleaning state and now we can truly rebuild. New Board, New Coach, New training staff New S&C, and strong investment in juniors. What you desire is a magic wand to fix all our problems in one go. Its not going to happen.

I know we are all sick of hearing that we are in a re-building phase. Truth is, we were never in a rebuilding phase until now. If we don't see some key signings for 2016 then we can start to worry but until then…keep the faith.

 

[TrueTiger]

Mate, the club knew it needed an overhaul for a long time and has taken all the necessary steps. It doesn't happen overnight, it's a long arduous process with alot of politics involved. We have spent the last 3 years cleaning state and now we can truly rebuild. New Board, New Coach, New training staff New S&C, and strong investment in juniors. What you desire is a magic wand to fix all our problems in one go. Its not going to happen.

I know we are all sick of hearing that we are in a re-building phase. Truth is, we were never in a rebuilding phase until now. If we don't see some key signings for 2016 then we can start to worry but until then…keep the faith.

Nors05,completely understand your reply,however the point I was trying to make is if the board and management can't get us a healthy bank account through other means of raising money not just freeing up the salary cap,then we can't make significant player purchases and other changes the club has needed for such a long time…I don't need a magic wand for it to happen...I just don't want people saying that no one will come here because we are a broke club...

 

[fairdinkum]

Mate, the club knew it needed an overhaul for a long time and has taken all the necessary steps. It doesn't happen overnight, it's a long arduous process with alot of politics involved. We have spent the last 3 years cleaning state and now we can truly rebuild. New Board, New Coach, New training staff New S&C, and strong investment in juniors. What you desire is a magic wand to fix all our problems in one go. Its not going to happen.

**I know we are all sick of hearing that we are in a re-building phase. Truth is, we were never in a rebuilding phase until now. If we don't see some key signings for 2016 then we can start to worry but until then…keep the faith.**

\
\
Hit the nail on the head. The problem all us fans have is that the club has been spewing this line out since 2003\. Kind of makes the club look stupid to have been rebuilding for over a decade.

 

[TurnStyle]

Well fellow forumers,after reading many posts and topics regarding our great club,I have come to the conclusion that if we are to be a strong,viable club in the future,the board and management must completely overhaul the mechanics of the club..what I mean by this is,we have debated many things and have speculated on players young and experienced that we need,but first our finances must be sorted and that not only includes the salary cap it also entails marketing,sponsors,revenue injected by the Wests Ashfield group and other financial aids…

Let me say the common denominator in nearly every argument or plan has come down to not having money at our disposal.."the we are broke syndrome" readily comes to the fore..

We can argue all we like about who was the cause of the monetary malfunction,anyone who is a diehard supporter of this club has seen big money squandered,for little return,if any...
\
\
The speculation about our young players,the new coach,S&C staff and the board wether or not will be the rightchoice, is still to be seen..I really hope that it all starts to fall into place sooner than later,Iam quite aware of the numerous times we have been called a rabble and a team who underachieves ,now is the time to step up to a new level of sucess on the field and just as importantly off the field....

Clearly I can see that without a good bit of money behind us then we will battle every year,this is where the board and management must market us and save wherever they can,our sucess relies on their decisions...There is light at the end of the tunnel and the whole internal operations of this club has been given an excellent opportunity to put us on the road of future premiership sucess...it is in their hands now to establish a winning team and a greater membership base..Since they have been in place(the board) I honestly think we certainly are going in the right direction and it will take time..I will afford the club time,because I have since day one of this great club gone through good and bad,from now on it will be great......

this is an excellent and pragmatic post TT.

the financial viability of the club is the root of its success, and i agree that the management now in place is doing the right things and not only is it required in the on field aspect, but patience is required to let the off field side work things out as well.

which i think they are doing.

you make a good point, or at least allude to, in that in the current rugby league market, the clubs who are thriving are those who have access to great sponsors offering TPAs: from an outsiders perspective, i simply dont understand how these are in any way conducive to a fair, even competition when by their very nature disparity is inevitable in this area.

* ive never heard of TPAs in american baseball or the NFL. they have the cap and that is that. this is why after winning a world series or super bowl, teams lose so many players as their market increases and they move to another team who can fit them in. the NE patriots are masters of managing the cap and maintaining competitiveness through these times.

it is in this department i think maybe a little better could be done in brand exposure and attracting sponsors. the club has a very attractive marketing theme, with the tiger and colours, and im sure the club has a great reputation with its players rarely getting any of the negative press a lot of others do.

im not dr marketing, but one thing i am just curious about - and please no one be offended by this - is the clubs connection to the western suburbs:

i am perth born and bred and have never lived in sydney, so please if i am completely off the mark give me a little leniency in my ignorance. but from my experience, i have always read/heard of the western suburbs of sydney being a bit rough and not having a great reputation. eg; i think what we call bogans over here you may call "Westies"? or is this really old? it was always the "fibros vs the silvertails" against manly. the roosters seem to have always been a bit of a posh area club. the broncos got in as the first team in the brisbane area and seem to never have any money issues.

i am not being critical of the area or its people (my dad grew up in the western suburbs there and i myself grew up in what are considered pretty 'rough' areas here), i am simply trying to say that like it or not, major companies want to be associated with affluence and success, and the two breed each other cyclically. wests have always seemed to be very "blue collar" and it looks to me as thought the white collar clubs are the ones able to attract the TPAs.

maybe there is a stigma attached to an area/conception the tigers are fighting?

again, i am really just playing devils advocate here, but could this be a reason the club doesnt attract the sponsors it would like?

i remember the club was briefly known as the sydney tigers (wow, awful years?!) but maybe a slight change in the clubs name and base without alienating a great supporter base could work?

maybe i am completely off track? penrith seem to be doing quite well in this area, and you cant get much further west than there!!

just putting it out there and wondering if this is actually a factor or not.

 

[innsaneink]

Western Suburbs does have a negative stigma attached to it (for whatever reason - many and varied)…the Magpies admitted this themselves when they changed their name to Wests Magpies.

I live in Sydneys S/W suburbs...if I had a choice I wouldnt

It probably does play a role...certainlty does for player recruitment when you have manly Roosters and Cronulla offering a local lifestyle many are priced out of

 

[TurnStyle]

Western Suburbs does have a negative stigma attached to it (for whatever reason - many and varied)…the Magpies admitted this themselves when they changed their name to Wests Magpies.

I live in Sydneys S/W suburbs...if I had a choice I wouldnt

It probably does play a role...certainlty does for player recruitment when you have manly Roosters and Cronulla offering a local lifestyle many are priced out of

thanks ink. it can be a delicate subject and one i tried to put across as well as i could.

 

[Black_n_White]

* ive never heard of TPAs in american baseball or the NFL. they have the cap and that is that. this is why after winning a world series or super bowl, teams lose so many players as their market increases and they move to another team who can fit them in. the NE patriots are masters of managing the cap and maintaining competitiveness through these times.

Both the NFL and Baseball in the USA have levellers in place.

The NFL has a draft system, and also the clubs own the stadiums, though dont get to keep the gate revenue themselves rather the gate revenue from all teams is pooled then divided by all the clubs, that way the the struggling teams get as much gate as the top runners whom get better turn outs.

Baseball Im not sure if it both leagues, but at least one has a salary cap, though if you choose to go over it the club has to match the amount it is over the cap in a payment to the league which is then dispersed through the other clubs.

That is off the top of my head, so obviously not a perfect summation, though is close enough for the purposes of this thread.

 

[diedpretty]

Well fellow forumers,after reading many posts and topics regarding our great club,I have come to the conclusion that if we are to be a strong,viable club in the future,the board and management must completely overhaul the mechanics of the club..what I mean by this is,we have debated many things and have speculated on players young and experienced that we need,but first our finances must be sorted and that not only includes the salary cap it also entails marketing,sponsors,revenue injected by the Wests Ashfield group and other financial aids…

Let me say the common denominator in nearly every argument or plan has come down to not having money at our disposal.."the we are broke syndrome" readily comes to the fore..

We can argue all we like about who was the cause of the monetary malfunction,anyone who is a diehard supporter of this club has seen big money squandered,for little return,if any...
\
\
The speculation about our young players,the new coach,S&C staff and the board wether or not will be the rightchoice, is still to be seen..I really hope that it all starts to fall into place sooner than later,Iam quite aware of the numerous times we have been called a rabble and a team who underachieves ,now is the time to step up to a new level of sucess on the field and just as importantly off the field....

Clearly I can see that without a good bit of money behind us then we will battle every year,this is where the board and management must market us and save wherever they can,our sucess relies on their decisions...There is light at the end of the tunnel and the whole internal operations of this club has been given an excellent opportunity to put us on the road of future premiership sucess...it is in their hands now to establish a winning team and a greater membership base..Since they have been in place(the board) I honestly think we certainly are going in the right direction and it will take time..I will afford the club time,because I have since day one of this great club gone through good and bad,from now on it will be great......

this is an excellent and pragmatic post TT.

the financial viability of the club is the root of its success, and i agree that the management now in place is doing the right things and not only is it required in the on field aspect, but patience is required to let the off field side work things out as well.

which i think they are doing.

you make a good point, or at least allude to, in that in the current rugby league market, the clubs who are thriving are those who have access to great sponsors offering TPAs: from an outsiders perspective, i simply dont understand how these are in any way conducive to a fair, even competition when by their very nature disparity is inevitable in this area.

* ive never heard of TPAs in american baseball or the NFL. they have the cap and that is that. this is why after winning a world series or super bowl, teams lose so many players as their market increases and they move to another team who can fit them in. the NE patriots are masters of managing the cap and maintaining competitiveness through these times.

it is in this department i think maybe a little better could be done in brand exposure and attracting sponsors. the club has a very attractive marketing theme, with the tiger and colours, and im sure the club has a great reputation with its players rarely getting any of the negative press a lot of others do.

im not dr marketing, but one thing i am just curious about - and please no one be offended by this - is the clubs connection to the western suburbs:

i am perth born and bred and have never lived in sydney, so please if i am completely off the mark give me a little leniency in my ignorance. but from my experience, i have always read/heard of the western suburbs of sydney being a bit rough and not having a great reputation. eg; i think what we call bogans over here you may call "Westies"? or is this really old? it was always the "fibros vs the silvertails" against manly. the roosters seem to have always been a bit of a posh area club. the broncos got in as the first team in the brisbane area and seem to never have any money issues.

i am not being critical of the area or its people (my dad grew up in the western suburbs there and i myself grew up in what are considered pretty 'rough' areas here), i am simply trying to say that like it or not, major companies want to be associated with affluence and success, and the two breed each other cyclically. wests have always seemed to be very "blue collar" and it looks to me as thought the white collar clubs are the ones able to attract the TPAs.

maybe there is a stigma attached to an area/conception the tigers are fighting?

again, i am really just playing devils advocate here, but could this be a reason the club doesnt attract the sponsors it would like?

i remember the club was briefly known as the sydney tigers (wow, awful years?!) but maybe a slight change in the clubs name and base without alienating a great supporter base could work?

maybe i am completely off track? penrith seem to be doing quite well in this area, and you cant get much further west than there!!

just putting it out there and wondering if this is actually a factor or not.

Firstly WT is portrayed more as an inner city club than a club of the western suburbs soI think your assumption that we can't attract TPAs is because of any association with the western suburbs of Sydney is wrong. Secondly I would be interested in what name change you would be proposing as I would think the current name is protected as much as the emblem under the NRL licence.

 

[goldcoast_tiger]

* ive never heard of TPAs in american baseball or the NFL. they have the cap and that is that. this is why after winning a world series or super bowl, teams lose so many players as their market increases and they move to another team who can fit them in. the NE patriots are masters of managing the cap and maintaining competitiveness through these times.

Both the NFL and Baseball in the USA have levellers in place.

The NFL has a draft system, and also the clubs own the stadiums, though dont get to keep the gate revenue themselves rather the gate revenue from all teams is pooled then divided by all the clubs, that way the the struggling teams get as much gate as the top runners whom get better turn outs.

Baseball Im not sure if it both leagues, but at least one has a salary cap, though if you choose to go over it the club has to match the amount it is over the cap in a payment to the league which is then dispersed through the other clubs.

That is off the top of my head, so obviously not a perfect summation, though is close enough for the purposes of this thread.

SSounds like a great idea to me.
The cap as it stands with tpa's , doesn't even start to be fair.

 

[TurnStyle]

Firstly WT is portrayed more as an inner city club than a club of the western suburbs soI think your assumption that we can't attract TPAs is because of any association with the western suburbs of Sydney is wrong. Secondly I would be interested in what name change you would be proposing as I would think the current name is protected as much as the emblem under the NRL licence.

\

again, i am really just playing devils advocate here, but could this be a reason the club doesnt attract the sponsors it would like?

just putting it out there and wondering if this is actually a factor or not.

DP, as i have quoted from my post, i made a point of saying i am playing devils advocate; if you dont know what this means, it is basically putting forth a possible reason/influence on something that you yourself dont necessarily agree with or believe. it is placing yourself as a third party in a debate or similar, thus playing "devil's advocate"….

its not my intention to condescend, but it seems as though you have missed or misunderstood my point as i havent made any assumption, simply put it out there for thought/feedback.

the latter line i self quoted reinforces the former. so you have answered my question regarding how the team is portrayed over there. again, i emphasised i dont live in sydney and dont really know as you would.

so that means my positing that the club is hampered in getting TPA sponsors is seen as a western suburbs club is wrong.

cool: question answered.

having said this, it makes your question about what suggestions i have on a name change moot, as the name "Wests Tigers" is not an issue.

i will indulge you though. given there is no problem with how the club is viewed by potential sponsors, why not "West Sydney Tigers"?

i personally feel the actual name grammatically makes no sense. it is basically a name that should have a "/" in the middle that doesnt. "Wests/Tigers" makes sense (although a dumb name!), Wests Tigers doesnt imo and is indicative of coming up with a name that keeps people from the Wests and Tigers sides happy. so lets just add Wests and Tigers and call it Wests Tigers?

in many joint ventures i have worked at in business, they have come up with a unique name that gives the company its own identity rather than the perception it is the offspring of two corporations.

thanks for the reply DP, i hope i have answered your questions.

 

[TurnStyle]

* ive never heard of TPAs in american baseball or the NFL. they have the cap and that is that. this is why after winning a world series or super bowl, teams lose so many players as their market increases and they move to another team who can fit them in. the NE patriots are masters of managing the cap and maintaining competitiveness through these times.

Both the NFL and Baseball in the USA have levellers in place.

The NFL has a draft system, and also the clubs own the stadiums, though dont get to keep the gate revenue themselves rather the gate revenue from all teams is pooled then divided by all the clubs, that way the the struggling teams get as much gate as the top runners whom get better turn outs.

Baseball Im not sure if it both leagues, but at least one has a salary cap, though if you choose to go over it the club has to match the amount it is over the cap in a payment to the league which is then dispersed through the other clubs.

That is off the top of my head, so obviously not a perfect summation, though is close enough for the purposes of this thread.

thanks BnW :slight_smile:

 

[diedpretty]

Firstly WT is portrayed more as an inner city club than a club of the western suburbs soI think your assumption that we can't attract TPAs is because of any association with the western suburbs of Sydney is wrong. Secondly I would be interested in what name change you would be proposing as I would think the current name is protected as much as the emblem under the NRL licence.

\

again, i am really just playing devils advocate here, but could this be a reason the club doesnt attract the sponsors it would like?

just putting it out there and wondering if this is actually a factor or not.

DP, as i have quoted from my post, i made a point of saying i am playing devils advocate; if you dont know what this means, it is basically putting forth a possible reason/influence on something that you yourself dont necessarily agree with or believe. it is placing yourself as a third party in a debate or similar, thus playing "devil's advocate"….

its not my intention to condescend, but it seems as though you have missed or misunderstood my point as i havent made any assumption, simply put it out there for thought/feedback.

the latter line i self quoted reinforces the former. so you have answered my question regarding how the team is portrayed over there. again, i emphasised i dont live in sydney and dont really know as you would.

so that means my positing that the club is hampered in getting TPA sponsors is seen as a western suburbs club is wrong.

cool: question answered.

having said this, it makes your question about what suggestions i have on a name change moot, as the name "Wests Tigers" is not an issue.

i will indulge you though. given there is no problem with how the club is viewed by potential sponsors, why not "West Sydney Tigers"?

i personally feel the actual name grammatically makes no sense. it is basically a name that should have a "/" in the middle that doesnt. "Wests/Tigers" makes sense (although a dumb name!), Wests Tigers doesnt imo and is indicative of coming up with a name that keeps people from the Wests and Tigers sides happy. so lets just add Wests and Tigers and call it Wests Tigers?

in many joint ventures i have worked at in business, they have come up with a unique name that gives the company its own identity rather than the perception it is the offspring of two corporations.

thanks for the reply DP, i hope i have answered your questions.

No actually you haven't answered anything. You obviously have misunderstood or misread my post. We all understand that you believe that distancing the club from Wests will solve all the problems - why not call them West Sydney Wombats and distance the club from both Wests ansd Balmain.

 

[TurnStyle]

No actually you haven't answered anything. You obviously have misunderstood or misread my post. We all understand that you believe that distancing the club from Wests will solve all the problems - why not call them West Sydney Wombats and distance the club from both Wests ansd Balmain.

omg. :unamused:

being told by you that i cant understand what you have written is like a three year old telling stephen hawking he knows nothing about theoretical cosmology.

We all understand that you believe that distancing the club from Wests will solve all the problems

firstly, i never said that the club distancing itself from Wests would "solve all the problems", nor did i say it would even solve ANY problems. i even went to great lengths to emphasise that this is not my personal view or opinion on the matter.

not only did i say i was playing devils advocate, but i even explained the concept in an effort to be able to communicate my point effectively. yet you still dont get it. what am i supposed to do here?

i put forth a question about the POSSIBILITY the club being associated with the western suburbs could be a factor, to which you replied it is more thought of as an inner city club.

great. i accept that. i conceded you would know more than i do on this matter.

secondly, i even said i would indulge you by ANSWERING your question on what i thought they could possibly change their name to.

i dont know what else i can do to explain what i was saying, or how to satisfactorily answer your questions.

i feel like the baseball player in the Simpsons episode where Mr Burns keeps telling him to get rid of his sideburns!!


 

[diedpretty]

No actually you haven't answered anything. You obviously have misunderstood or misread my post. We all understand that you believe that distancing the club from Wests will solve all the problems - why not call them West Sydney Wombats and distance the club from both Wests ansd Balmain.

omg. :unamused:

being told by you that i cant understand what you have written is like a three year old telling stephen hawking he knows nothing about theoretical cosmology.

We all understand that you believe that distancing the club from Wests will solve all the problems

firstly, i never said that the club distancing itself from Wests would "solve all the problems", nor did i say it would even solve ANY problems. i even went to great lengths to emphasise that this is not my personal view or opinion on the matter.

not only did i say i was playing devils advocate, but i even explained the concept in an effort to be able to communicate my point effectively. yet you still dont get it. what am i supposed to do here?

i put forth a question about the POSSIBILITY the club being associated with the western suburbs could be a factor, to which you replied it is more thought of as an inner city club.

great. i accept that. i conceded you would know more than i do on this matter.

secondly, i even said i would indulge you by ANSWERING your question on what i thought they could possibly change their name to.

i dont know what else i can do to explain what i was saying, or how to satisfactorily answer your questions.

i feel like the baseball player in the Simpsons episode where Mr Burns keeps telling him to get rid of his sideburns!!


sorry just playing the devils advocate.

 

[TurnStyle]

:laughing:

i can take it. all good.

 

[Tim Sheens]

Western Suburbs does have a negative stigma attached to it (for whatever reason - many and varied)…the Magpies admitted this themselves when they changed their name to Wests Magpies.

I live in Sydneys S/W suburbs...if I had a choice I wouldnt

It probably does play a role...certainlty does for player recruitment when you have manly Roosters and Cronulla offering a local lifestyle many are priced out of

thanks ink. it can be a delicate subject and one i tried to put across as well as i could.

You danced around it for paragraphs :slight_smile:

 

[TurnStyle]

Western Suburbs does have a negative stigma attached to it (for whatever reason - many and varied)…the Magpies admitted this themselves when they changed their name to Wests Magpies.

I live in Sydneys S/W suburbs...if I had a choice I wouldnt

It probably does play a role...certainlty does for player recruitment when you have manly Roosters and Cronulla offering a local lifestyle many are priced out of

thanks ink. it can be a delicate subject and one i tried to put across as well as i could.

You danced around it for paragraphs :slight_smile:

well, as much as i tried not to upset anyone, it seems i did.

was it george thorogood who wrote that song about me? "you talk too much"!!!

 

[gallagher]

Call ourselves 'the the most awesomest vampire tigers' and we'll still be 'that broke team that trains and plays at council ovals'.
We'll only change our image/perception when we change the way we perform as a club.