Garner

[The_Patriot]

And, unlike Chris, he catches the flat bullet pass from Brooks. He had a top game.

Honestly, I think it's as much about the passes as the players running onto it.

Does Chris Lawrence have a reputation for dropping the footy in regular play, say during a hit-up? No he doesn't. So if the reputation comes from catching "flat bullet passes from Brooks" only, it tells us something about the quality of those passes.

For starters, nobody should be throwing flat bullets to a hole runner just a few metres away. Soft hands for those runs, bullet passes for the cut-outs.

As Russell noted, we got a proper forwards platform after 20 mins, which makes all hole running easier.

However I will put it to you that it's the quality of the passes and also the type of hole running that Garner and Lawrence do.

Lawrence runs hard lines and aims for early gaps in the line. He doesn't really deviate from his line once he starts, so if the defence closes on him, he's not going to find a new line. He's not as agile as he used to be, but honestly he's never been a light stepper, he's always been about power generated whilst sprinting in a straight line / arc. So if Lawrence runs a line and the defenders go to him, he needs to catch and bust the tackle, or better have the half cut him out. And that's not a problem because drawing in defenders is a perfectly legitimate running line, you don't always need to be taking the ball.

Problem I find for Brooks is he is happy to fire short hard passes when the runner is right in the teeth of the defence. Lawrence drops those, Aloiai drops those, Matto has dropped those. Again, they should not be bullet passes.

With Garner on Friday, Brooks was giving him the ball a little earlier and Garner wasn't running hard lines, he was just stepping to the outside of his man (Kurt Mann) and trying to poke through the line just after he caught the ball. He's got pretty good bumpers once he's taken the pass and has a nice natural fend. There's much less pressure on these earlier softer passes and he's already committed to getting on the edge of his opponent, so what he needs to do is catch the footy and keep going through that half-hole.

Lawrence on the other hand has to content with defenders stepping into his run right as he catches the ball. And Brooks tends to pass it anyway, even if the gap closes.

All that aside if Luke Brooks ran the ball harder and more often himself the gaps would suddenly open up for Lawrence and Garner

 

[Snake]

@TYGA Brooks is robotic with his actions ... been watching him closely over the last month , it is interesting that his passing game has been highlighted to his outside men . Brooks has no idea on reading a game and unfortunately this separates the top halves from the rest , he runs to the line and regardless if the player he is passing to is covered he still passes and they get hammered or drop the pass .. the player that can read the game jinks and passes to the outside or inside player . This happens regularly and in every game, Brooks is a good player but will never be in the elite level of No7s.

 

[Geo]

Never fails..lol

 

[happy_tiger]

Was huge tonight
Spells the end of Lawrence.

Don't agree Lawrence off the bench was good


Can’t play forever ..
Can’t keep hanging onto senior citizens mate .

he's only 29..lol

There is 29 and there is 29

Rowdy is 29 going 39 , like dog years , Rowdy years

Garner would be a better bench player , his starts missing tackles once his minutes start to mount up

 

[happy_tiger]

And, unlike Chris, he catches the flat bullet pass from Brooks. He had a top game.

Honestly, I think it's as much about the passes as the players running onto it.

Does Chris Lawrence have a reputation for dropping the footy in regular play, say during a hit-up? No he doesn't. So if the reputation comes from catching "flat bullet passes from Brooks" only, it tells us something about the quality of those passes.

For starters, nobody should be throwing flat bullets to a hole runner just a few metres away. Soft hands for those runs, bullet passes for the cut-outs.

As Russell noted, we got a proper forwards platform after 20 mins, which makes all hole running easier.

However I will put it to you that it's the quality of the passes and also the type of hole running that Garner and Lawrence do.

Lawrence runs hard lines and aims for early gaps in the line. He doesn't really deviate from his line once he starts, so if the defence closes on him, he's not going to find a new line. He's not as agile as he used to be, but honestly he's never been a light stepper, he's always been about power generated whilst sprinting in a straight line / arc. So if Lawrence runs a line and the defenders go to him, he needs to catch and bust the tackle, or better have the half cut him out. And that's not a problem because drawing in defenders is a perfectly legitimate running line, you don't always need to be taking the ball.

Problem I find for Brooks is he is happy to fire short hard passes when the runner is right in the teeth of the defence. Lawrence drops those, Aloiai drops those, Matto has dropped those. Again, they should not be bullet passes.

With Garner on Friday, Brooks was giving him the ball a little earlier and Garner wasn't running hard lines, he was just stepping to the outside of his man (Kurt Mann) and trying to poke through the line just after he caught the ball. He's got pretty good bumpers once he's taken the pass and has a nice natural fend. There's much less pressure on these earlier softer passes and he's already committed to getting on the edge of his opponent, so what he needs to do is catch the footy and keep going through that half-hole.

Lawrence on the other hand has to content with defenders stepping into his run right as he catches the ball. And Brooks tends to pass it anyway, even if the gap closes.



All that aside if Luke Brooks ran the ball harder and more often himself the gaps would suddenly open up for Lawrence and Garner

rarely agree , but you are spot on this time , if you compared the times when every 7 in the game had the ball and were at top speed Brooks would be in the bottom 4

I'm not a Pearce fan , but when he takes on the line he does it at 100% every time

Luke could learn a lot

 

[Fitzy05]

Pearce does go hard at the line, sometimes it works great other times when he gets caught he has blown other opportunities. Pearce has been the form half of the Comp in 2019. Although I thought outplayed him on Friday night.

 

[Blocker1963]

Luke was always going to be an impact player out wide, good core strength and line speed, his drop in form, and he admits was connected with the passing of his father, said his emotions were up and down, just like his form, but everybody at the Tigers was helping him through it, especially Madge, so well done to all.

 

[The_Patriot]

And, unlike Chris, he catches the flat bullet pass from Brooks. He had a top game.

Honestly, I think it's as much about the passes as the players running onto it.

Does Chris Lawrence have a reputation for dropping the footy in regular play, say during a hit-up? No he doesn't. So if the reputation comes from catching "flat bullet passes from Brooks" only, it tells us something about the quality of those passes.

For starters, nobody should be throwing flat bullets to a hole runner just a few metres away. Soft hands for those runs, bullet passes for the cut-outs.

As Russell noted, we got a proper forwards platform after 20 mins, which makes all hole running easier.

However I will put it to you that it's the quality of the passes and also the type of hole running that Garner and Lawrence do.

Lawrence runs hard lines and aims for early gaps in the line. He doesn't really deviate from his line once he starts, so if the defence closes on him, he's not going to find a new line. He's not as agile as he used to be, but honestly he's never been a light stepper, he's always been about power generated whilst sprinting in a straight line / arc. So if Lawrence runs a line and the defenders go to him, he needs to catch and bust the tackle, or better have the half cut him out. And that's not a problem because drawing in defenders is a perfectly legitimate running line, you don't always need to be taking the ball.

Problem I find for Brooks is he is happy to fire short hard passes when the runner is right in the teeth of the defence. Lawrence drops those, Aloiai drops those, Matto has dropped those. Again, they should not be bullet passes.

With Garner on Friday, Brooks was giving him the ball a little earlier and Garner wasn't running hard lines, he was just stepping to the outside of his man (Kurt Mann) and trying to poke through the line just after he caught the ball. He's got pretty good bumpers once he's taken the pass and has a nice natural fend. There's much less pressure on these earlier softer passes and he's already committed to getting on the edge of his opponent, so what he needs to do is catch the footy and keep going through that half-hole.

Lawrence on the other hand has to content with defenders stepping into his run right as he catches the ball. And Brooks tends to pass it anyway, even if the gap closes.



All that aside if Luke Brooks ran the ball harder and more often himself the gaps would suddenly open up for Lawrence and Garner

rarely agree , but you are spot on this time , if you compared the times when every 7 in the game had the ball and were at top speed Brooks would be in the bottom 4

I'm not a Pearce fan , but when he takes on the line he does it at 100% every time

Luke could learn a lot

I hate Nathan Cleary with a passion but even he has learnt to hit the line hard and often.

And dont worry i rarely agree with yours but occasionally we cross over into some middle ground lol.

 

[hsvjones]

Hope he keeps his spot for a few weeks as he seems like a guy you just want to play with. Hits hard and has something to prove. He just needs to back it up this week and feel he will and he will score a try off brooks.

 

[jirskyr]

@jirskyr Brooks certainly does have the habit of throwing the pass when it's too late.

I agree - anyone who wants to see a master class in soft passing and select running, go back to the Souths-Dragons game on Friday and watch Cody Walker. His form has dipped since the first few months of 2019, but he still has a beautiful catch-pass on him and is super selective when he holds and when he releases the ball.

Brooks is a good kid but he has almost no soft passing game and he has no idea how to hold up a pass and wait for the defensive line to commit. He is much more effective passing early or taking a run.

 

[Masterton]

Problem I find for Brooks is he is happy to fire short hard passes when the runner is right in the teeth of the defence. Lawrence drops those, Aloiai drops those, Matto has dropped those. Again, they should not be bullet passes.

I think everyone is frustrated by Brooks hard hands at times, but both McQueen and Garner are a lot better at taking those balls. Lawry has to take some responsibility.

 

[happy_tiger]

Problem I find for Brooks is he is happy to fire short hard passes when the runner is right in the teeth of the defence. Lawrence drops those, Aloiai drops those, Matto has dropped those. Again, they should not be bullet passes.

I think everyone is frustrated by Brooks hard hands at times, but both McQueen and Garner are a lot better at taking those balls. Lawry has to take some responsibility.

Soft hands and putting the ball in the perfect position for the runner is so important

Kevin Walters was wonderful at that ...he put the ball into the perfect position for the ball runner to hit the hole at speed

 

[Sart0ri]

@happy_tiger It seems we've reached agreement that Brooks is part (I would say a major part!) of the clumsy hole-running, flat-pass-catching-at the-line by the forwards.

I certainly don't agree.

The short pass is more effective when there is more than one runner who could receive the ball. It also needs to be thrown quickly and at the last possible second so the defenders have to make a decision and may get it wrong or so you can isolate a particular defender.

 

[happy_tiger]

@happy_tiger It seems we've reached agreement that Brooks is part (I would say a major part!) of the clumsy hole-running, flat-pass-catching-at the-line by the forwards.

I certainly don't agree.

The short pass is more effective when there is more than one runner who could receive the ball. It also needs to be thrown quickly and at the last possible second so the defenders have to make a decision and may get it wrong or so you can isolate a particular defender.

You can have soft hands and throw a quick pass ...it is all about putting it in the right position and having great timing

 

[Sart0ri]

@happy_tiger I don't understand "soft hands". Are you saying that 2 different players can pass a ball at 30km/h but one of them can make the ball land more softly in the receiver's hands? Force = Mass x Acceleration.

I would agree that it is possible to achieve a similar result by passing the ball more slowly and with perfect timing but you are still giving the defence more time than a fast pass with perfect timing. The short pass will always have a higher risk of being dropped than a longer, slower pass to a player further back, but there is also more reward when it works.

 

[happy_tiger]

@happy_tiger I don't understand "soft hands". Are you saying that 2 different players can pass a ball at 30km/h but one of them can make the ball land more softly in the receiver's hands? Force = Mass x Acceleration.

I would agree that it is possible to achieve a similar result by passing the ball more slowly and with perfect timing but you are still giving the defence more time than a fast pass with perfect timing. The short pass will always have a higher risk of being dropped than a longer, slower pass to a player further back, but there is also more reward when it works.

I guess the best answer I can give is where you put the ball .....if you place the pass perfectly it doesn't matter about the speed of the pass

A great pass and the attacker doesn't have to really worry about the ball , I know it sounds weird , he just needs to make sure he hits the hole at the right angle and the ball will be in front of him waiting to be caught

Many years ago I played with an extremely talented half back Gary Morrisey .....and we rarely had to communicate ....we both knew where the hole would open , just had to hit the hole hard and the ball would be exactly where it needed to be

 

[Geo]

@happy_tiger I don't understand "soft hands". Are you saying that 2 different players can pass a ball at 30km/h but one of them can make the ball land more softly in the receiver's hands? Force = Mass x Acceleration.

I would agree that it is possible to achieve a similar result by passing the ball more slowly and with perfect timing but you are still giving the defence more time than a fast pass with perfect timing. The short pass will always have a higher risk of being dropped than a longer, slower pass to a player further back, but there is also more reward when it works.

I guess the best answer I can give is where you put the ball .....if you place the pass perfectly it doesn't matter about the speed of the pass

A great pass and the attacker doesn't have to really worry about the ball , I know it sounds weird , he just needs to make sure he hits the hole at the right angle and the ball will be in front of him waiting to be caught

Many years ago I played with an extremely talented half back Gary Morrisey .....and we rarely had to communicate ....we both knew where the hole would open , just had to hit the hole hard and the ball would be exactly where it needed to be

wow.... no wonder you scored a century of TRIES a season...

 

[happy_tiger]

@happy_tiger I don't understand "soft hands". Are you saying that 2 different players can pass a ball at 30km/h but one of them can make the ball land more softly in the receiver's hands? Force = Mass x Acceleration.

I would agree that it is possible to achieve a similar result by passing the ball more slowly and with perfect timing but you are still giving the defence more time than a fast pass with perfect timing. The short pass will always have a higher risk of being dropped than a longer, slower pass to a player further back, but there is also more reward when it works.

I guess the best answer I can give is where you put the ball .....if you place the pass perfectly it doesn't matter about the speed of the pass

A great pass and the attacker doesn't have to really worry about the ball , I know it sounds weird , he just needs to make sure he hits the hole at the right angle and the ball will be in front of him waiting to be caught

Many years ago I played with an extremely talented half back Gary Morrisey .....and we rarely had to communicate ....we both knew where the hole would open , just had to hit the hole hard and the ball would be exactly where it needed to be

wow.... no wonder you scored a century of TRIES a season...

A century more than you ..

It's hard to describe .....a hard pass seems soft if put in the right place .....some of Brooks passes seemed rushed / forced and hard because the gap is closing or has closed ....which means both he and the hole runner haven't done their job and Brooks doesn't have a back up plan

Why I am forever raving on about Brooks hitting the line at speed .....you can almost tell what Brooks is going to do by how he reacts

The Penrith game magic round was a perfect example ......about 5 minutes left and he had this massive hole open up .....all 3 of us couldn't believe he didn't run ...just had to straighten the attack

 

[old_man_tiger]

@happy_tiger said in [Garner]
Why I am forever raving on about Brooks hitting the line at speed .....you can almost tell what Brooks is going to do by how he reacts

The Penrith game magic round was a perfect example ......about 5 minutes left and he had this massive hole open up .....all 3 of us couldn't believe he didn't run ...just had to straighten the attack

Couldn't agree more. He looks like he makes his mind up before he gets the ball half the time. When he looks to engage the defence first (with support) and then take the best option he is a very exciting player.