God?

[reyre2000]

To all of the non believers Can you explain one thing to me . Where did everything come from ??? Even if the Big Bang Theory is true, matter and energy has to come from somewhere . If someone can explain that to me i could possibly become a non believer but **everthing has to come from somewhere**

No I can't explain it. And neither can you. Nobody knows (yet) what took place in those moments before or just after the big bang but with modern physics, Quantum field theory and general relativity that is, we can date time to 10 (-43) seconds after "The Big Bang". Before this time all laws of physics as we currently understand break down, time, energy, matter do not behave in the same way. "**everthing has to come from somewhere**" We really just don't know this. Time as we understand it today didnt exist before the big bang. What took place before that is an absolute mystery.

To say that we dont know therefore "god did it" is asinin and an arguement from ignorance.

All I am saying is that believing in **God neither hinders nor affects my life in anyway** . If I am wrong I am wrong no harm done but I at least know that **it has helped me make moral based decisions in my life** regarding all of my life for which I am proud .

"God neither hinders nor affects my life in anyway" - So why believe something that you have no evidence for?

I will assume you didn't really mean the above mentioned quote as you go on to say, and contradict yourself, "it has helped me make moral based decisions in my life" - are you saying that people that don't believe in your version of god (whatever that is?) can not live a moral life? If your answer is no, then why believe in "god" for which there is NO proof (no a sunset doesnt count as proof) If your answer is yes, what gives you the right to call anyone immoral?

 

[happy_tiger]

No I am saying that my believe in a higher power has helped me make the right moral deciions in MY life . Not yours or anyone elses for that matter . So where you got that in your head from what you just read from my post I will never know . What I'm saying in the physical sense it does not affect my life . What does my believes have you worried for anyway ?? My point in my initial comment was just saying no one knows for certain what is going to happen once they kick the bucket . I think there is more to all of this that I can see and if I'm wrong I'm wrong .

 

[hammertime]

We talk about evolution of man yet there is not one fossil or skeletal of a half ape half man, yet we have many dinosaur bones that are supposed to be from before mankind.

Yes there is. There are plenty of fossils showing the evolution from Ape to Man.

Where HammerT???

You would think there are tons of examples not just one example that I read about in Nat Geo that was found in Indonesia that just turned out to be a "Short Stature person" …

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1157536.stm
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Missing-Link-Scientists-In-New-York-Unveil-Fossil-Of-Lemur-Monkey-Hailed-As-Mans-Earliest-Ancestor/Article/200905315284582
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/evolution/7550033/Missing-link-between-man-and-apes-found.html

 

[reyre2000]

happy tiger, i will not attack anyone for their views. This can "evolve" into a lively debate if you are interested in continuing it or you may prefer to pm me. Are you agnostic or do you believe in the traditional judeo/christian god that is indoctrinated into most believers lives? What is your belief and what gives you the reason for this belief?

Im truely curious to understand what goes on inside a believers mind. How in this day and age (we now understand the earth is not flat and why the sun rises in the morning) with no evidence what so ever for the existence of a god, that people still can blindly think there is something there?

You ask me why does your beliefs worry me, i first need to know what you believe before answering this. If it is the judeo/christian god, yes, i have a big problem with that as everything that comes out of that religion can be achieved through secular means, without the evil it incites.

 

[mc1991]

mc1991 wrote:
Biggest tigers fan (Edit 117)- don't believe everything the media feeds you..journos and pollies are the people who give the details and they're the biggest liars god put on this earth..if you have questions about this topic go ask a religious leader not some random who talks like he knows wtf he's on about..
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Tough of you to swear at me on a forum ha.So you are telling me that religion has nothing to do with wars and violence??

Of coarse it has nothing to to with religion..only stupid people make it about religion because they have oversized egos and need a reason to start something..pretty pathetic actually
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[you_know_who]

I believe that there is a god, i just hope his is on the wests tigers side on sunday. He was on sunday with James Maloney missing so many goals and Tim Simon coming on at the right time to stop a warriors try when i cleaned up the ball when i caome on, pretty fortunate i would say.

 

[stryker]

Believing in a higher power, or some sort of god is fine with me. Science doesnt explain everything for me.

That being said, I detest organised religion as ..

#1 I think it has very little to do with god. Religion in some form or another has been around for 1000's of years. It was historically used to controll the masses i.e. sacrifices in ancient civilisations for good harvests and prosperity, the burning alive of human beings accused of witchery and the crusades/holy wars.

#2 It has proven time and again to be easily corruptable. Think medieval times when scores were slaughtered because they either didnt believe or their belief differed, the conquering of new lands and the erradication of the natives, the conflicts over the West Bank, the conflicts in Ireland, suicide bombers in the name of Allah, the cover ups of the Catholic church with regard to sex crimes…the list goes on and on and on.

#3 The wealth that is built from what should be a non profit organisation and the pathetic distributions of said capital.

#4 The preying on of the vulnerable i.e. the emergence of suicide cults, scientology, tele-evangelism and faith healers.

With the entering of the industrial age and then modernism, the control factor has been lessened in the western world, but is still alive and kicking elsewhere. Why? We can explain almost everything yet the churches urge us to disregard this new information and continue to follow outdated belief systems that quite frankly make no sense.

As I said in the other thread, I was raised Catholic, went through the Catholic school system. It amuses me that many take the writings in the bible as gosple and are so closed minded to alternatives. I took a couple of relevant teachings and try to follow those i.e. do unto others and the ones that were made into the law of the land i.e. dont murder, steal etc...the rest of the bible, to me, is a good yarn but nothing more.

Lastly, onto God. I agree that faith is based upon the pillar of fear of the unknown after death. When my brother was killed my mother jumped head first into religion and it broke my family apart. I can see why she needs to believe she will see him again and to be honest I'd like the same. However I refuse to allow this to consume my life. This has burnt a lot of bridges that are yet to be mended. We are trying but it is a very slow process. I believe that God is a state of mind, a feeling, not an essence. I dont believe that Jesus was sent from heaven to save us all. Moreso he was a holy man with schizophrenia who _thought_ he was the son of God. There no doubt that if he is being portrayed correctly that he tried to make his world a better place but again I come back to the thought that it was all in his head. This is a thought I have about another historical figure - Joan of Arc.

I cant say that I dont believe in some higher power, but my experiences in life and earlier on at church has concreted my opinion that none of the organised religions have it right.

 

[biggest_tigers_fan]

None of this has got to do with footy or even the tigers…
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It might do . **I wonder who God would support** ???

definately not cronulla

 

[happy_tiger]

None of this has got to do with footy or even the tigers…
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It might do . **I wonder who God would support** ???

definately not cronulla

And he is definitely a QUEENSLANDER

 

[alien]

None of this has got to do with footy or even the tigers…
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It might do . I wonder who God would support ???

well the injury god definately isnt on our side this year! :laughing:

 

[stryker]

In fact Happy I think he may have played for Queensland a few times (Lewis,Langer,Lockyer), he loves a surname starting with 'L'…maybe thats why they call him the Lord?

 

[alien]

In fact Happy I think he may have played for Queensland a few times (Lewis,Langer,Lockyer), he loves a surname starting with 'L'…maybe thats why they call him the Lord?

I guess I'm in big trouble for what I have done to the Wally Lewis statue then. Oops… :smiling_imp:

 

[happy_tiger]

happy tiger, i will not attack anyone for their views. This can "evolve" into a lively debate if you are interested in continuing it or you may prefer to pm me. Are you agnostic or do you believe in the traditional judeo/christian god that is indoctrinated into most believers lives? What is your belief and what gives you the reason for this belief?

Im truely curious to understand what goes on inside a believers mind. How in this day and age (we now understand the earth is not flat and why the sun rises in the morning) with no evidence what so ever for the existence of a god, that people still can blindly think there is something there?

You ask me why does your beliefs worry me, i first need to know what you believe before answering this. If it is the judeo/christian god, yes, i have a big problem with that as everything that comes out of that religion can be achieved through secular means, without the evil it incites.

Reyre I take a bit from here and a bit from there . As previously stated I believe in reincarnation . The amount of people I have met over the years who I don't know from a bar of soap and may not even like but feel like i have known all of my live .
Perhaps my believe in a higher power is due to the fact I need an answer for everything for my own curiousity I don't know . Do I believe in the Bible maybe not all things But the message is the same and is morally sound (If you don't take it literally as some do ) The ten commandments the same . Anyone who thinks doing any of those things on the Ten Commandments is right is probably wrong ( well as a bloke 1 or 2 things you go yeah but ) Things like Murder , Stealing are wrong and few would deny that
Yes wars have been caused over religion but usually the extremes of religion like the extremes of government or politics . My children are raised as catholics but I won't push them any further It is there choice what they choose in the future .So if you are trying to narrow me down to a specific religion you can't I'm not

 

[happy_tiger]

In fact Happy I think he may have played for Queensland a few times (Lewis,Langer,Lockyer), he loves a surname starting with 'L'…maybe thats why they call him the Lord?

I guess I'm in big trouble for what I have done to the Wally Lewis statue then. Oops… :smiling_imp:

Alien you have bigger issues to worry about when Lethal gets hold of your locks after tomorrow night :mrgreen:

 

[alien]

In fact Happy I think he may have played for Queensland a few times (Lewis,Langer,Lockyer), he loves a surname starting with 'L'…maybe thats why they call him the Lord?

I guess I'm in big trouble for what I have done to the Wally Lewis statue then. Oops… :smiling_imp:

Alien you have bigger issues to worry about when Lethal gets hold of your locks after tomorrow night :mrgreen:

well she is from qld so maybe thats part of my punishment! :laughing:

 

[king_sirro]

Im not too sure if i believe in god or not, but i certainly believe in the afterlife. Too many weird things have happened after someone i know has died for it not to exist.

I do have a strong wiew on religion though. Religion is nothing but a glorified cult.

Religion = war.

 

[Flippedy]

Religion is "Man made" set of ideas that in affect bring you further away from God, Ie Traditions and legalistic requirements.

Here is the truth as I see it.

- We are all sinners
- The price of sin according to a Holy and Just Deity is separation.
- There is now Loving your family, Being Good, paying Money, service to an organisation Blowing yourself up etc that makes you eligible to get out of this debt.
- This loving Deity sent his son who lived a perfect life and allowed himself to be put to death so that through this gift he gives us Freedom in life beyond this one..

That's a good deal IMO.

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A few things to keep this respectful Discussion going...

Like it or not, this entire world is based on agreeing with or trying to combat the principles of the Bible.

People like to believe God does not exist as we hate Authority, If God is real then we case a light at how we live and we dont like that feeling.

You hit your thumb with an Hammer and no one yells out OH Budha, its always Christ.

We talk out global warming today and the changes we are seeing, yet we are taught that changes take billions of years. Baloney.

We talk about evolution of man yet there is not one fossil or skeletal of a half ape half man, yet we have many dinosaur bones that are supposed to be from before mankind.

People believe they are Christians because their parents were, or because they are nothing else. Its not the way it works.

You say it far better than I ever could! Thanks Spartan :stuck_out_tongue:

 

[Tigerdave]

To all of the non believers Can you explain one thing to me . Where did everything come from ??? Even if the Big Bang Theory is true, matter and energy has to come from somewhere . If someone can explain that to me i could possibly become a non believer but everthing has to come from somewhere

Well from what I understand matter, energy etc was all formed via the Big Bang. How did the Big Bang form? Well Stephen Hawkings has a show on SBS, at 8:30pm tonight in fact where he's been discussing it all.

Obviously for believers who ask this question they say since it all had to come from somewhere, they attribute this somewhere to God or whatever deity they choose to believe. The response to that is, if matter etc all had to come from somewhere and you say God, well then, where did God come from?

 

[Tigerdave]

People like to believe God does not exist as we hate Authority, If God is real then we case a light at how we live and we dont like that feeling.

No, non-believers don't believe in the existence of God or any deities due to lack of evidence. I've never met a non-believer who didn't believe because they hate God or whatever.

You hit your thumb with an Hammer and no one yells out OH Budha, its always Christ.

That would mostly only be for Western countries, I'm fairly sure they wouldn't say that in India

We talk out global warming today and the changes we are seeing, yet we are taught that changes take billions of years. Baloney.

What changes are you saying take billions of years?

We talk about evolution of man yet there is not one fossil or skeletal of a half ape half man, yet we have many dinosaur bones that are supposed to be from before mankind.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/

 

[happy_tiger]

To all of the non believers Can you explain one thing to me . Where did everything come from ??? Even if the Big Bang Theory is true, matter and energy has to come from somewhere . If someone can explain that to me i could possibly become a non believer but everthing has to come from somewhere

Well from what I understand matter, energy etc was all formed via the Big Bang. How did the Big Bang form? Well Stephen Hawkings has a show on SBS, at 8:30pm tonight in fact where he's been discussing it all.

Obviously for believers who ask this question they say since it all had to come from somewhere, they attribute this somewhere to God or whatever deity they choose to believe. The response to that is, if matter etc all had to come from somewhere and you say God, well then, where did God come from?

Chicken and the egg Tiger Dave