HAPPY THAT OUR COACH IS IVAN CLEARY

[Telltails]

Some people lose with humilty others dont simple as that. Flannagan and Barrett both reactive to adversity -
more about individual personalties than anything else.

 

[Geo]

I think Ivan just has a soft spot for refs..

http://www.espn.com.au/espn/story/_/id/15457321/ivan-cleary-finds-new-job-nrl

Ivan Cleary has been brought in by the NRL amid widespread discontent surrounding the game's officiating.

Former Penrith and Warriors coach Cleary was unveiled by NRL chief executive Todd Greenberg on Wednesday as a part-time consultant to lend his footballing nous to assist with match review, judiciary and refereeing issues.

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/league-news/nrl-signs-ivan-cleary-to-consultancy-role-as-finals-extra-time-rules-get-revamp-20160504-gomdpp.html

Greenberg, who sought out Cleary for the role, said the appointment would give coaches reassurance the NRL was conscious of their points of view.

"Ivan is one of the most experienced coaches in the game and he has a great feel for what the clubs want from our match and judiciary officials," Greenberg said.

–---------------------------------------
\
\
I am also glad Ivan is the Coach...often though I get the feeling with him what is said in the public domain...always very measured... and what is said behind closed doors through the appropriate channels with both the NRL and his players could be different things...I think he is an excellent man manager ...I don't think even in Sheens time especially his later tenure.. we have had that in our Coaching Staff..

 

[Fade_To_Black]

I guess Cleary is smart enough to know that a rant and a spray gets you 10g fine and nothing else. I also think Cleary is setting the bar for his players. How can you demand discipline and composure in your players and than go off like a two bob cracker at the presso.

Of course the only thing if we had just lost a sudden death final on the back of a couple crappy calls this forum would be going off big time and questioning why Cleary did not let fly at the presso

Sharks didnt lose because of the refs bad calls, they got a few wrong calls go their way too yesterday IMO.
Didn't see Brad Arthur's press conference but he was entitled to be pretty filthy, they got done over by the refs on 4 or 5 bad calls. A 5-1 penalty count in the 2nd half to Melbourne sure goes a long way to getting you over the line in a close game. Manu Mau's was just sheer stupidity on his part but most of the others were questionable except perhaps Alvaro's one.
The refs are atrocious no question, as is the bunker but garbage like Flanagan carried on with deserved more than just a 10k fine.

As for Barrett, haven't seen him look that sooky since he got pinged for running off the mark in the '05 prelim final.

 

[goldcoast_tiger]

Absolutely.

The whingeing culture of Flanno probably plays a part in the whingeing culture of the Sharks team. Taking dives, playing for the penalty… poor sportsmanship and embarrassing to watch.

I have been saying for a long while now that I would like it so that only the captain is permitted to speak to the referee. And it must be with the utmost respect or the ref will sin bin you. No whingeing to the ref allowed, they should be the ultimate authority. No coaches could whinge about refs either. It's just a reflection of the spoilt brats in our game, whingeing (or tanking or pulling the mental health card) to get out of contracts.

Refs will make mistakes sometimes, they are human, but if you're going to win the game you need to be good enough to beat the other side, beat the iffy refs decisions, and beat lady luck all together. And if you aren't good enough to beat those three things, you aren't good enough to control the things that are in your power, you deserve to lose and it is your own fault.

Now if IC can only stop the constant whinging about Refs from some on the Forum, he will truly be on his way to being our greatest coach ever.

 

[WestsBenTigers]

I read the following article this morning:-

http://www.msn.com/en-au/sport/rugby-league/comment-nrl-finals-shane-flanagans-referee-complaints-do-little-for-his-team-after-premiership-defence-ends/ar-AArDQqX?li=AA54yd&ocid=spartandhp

After reading this well-written article, I thought about Ivan Cleary's reactions in press conferences, when the team has lost. If my memory serves me correctly, he is usually complimentary about the general performance of the team, followed by a "but"". Some of these "buts"" have been:-
1\. We need to learn to perform like that for the whole eighty minutes.
2\. We performed well, but for some of the big moments, we could have done better.
3\. We are trying to change the defensive pattern and this takes time.
Ivan does NOT criticise the refereeing and the bunker.
Ivan does NOT blame the players, but he does indicate where they need to improve.

I am glad he is our coach.

To be fair , Jason Taylor, never criticised the refs either.
I guess there are a few coaches who dont. I think Nathan Brown is one as well.

JT also didn't criticise individual players either.

Robbie Farah…

 

[Russell]

I read the following article this morning:-

http://www.msn.com/en-au/sport/rugby-league/comment-nrl-finals-shane-flanagans-referee-complaints-do-little-for-his-team-after-premiership-defence-ends/ar-AArDQqX?li=AA54yd&ocid=spartandhp

After reading this well-written article, I thought about Ivan Cleary's reactions in press conferences, when the team has lost. If my memory serves me correctly, he is usually complimentary about the general performance of the team, followed by a "but"". Some of these "buts"" have been:-
1\. We need to learn to perform like that for the whole eighty minutes.
2\. We performed well, but for some of the big moments, we could have done better.
3\. We are trying to change the defensive pattern and this takes time.
Ivan does NOT criticise the refereeing and the bunker.
Ivan does NOT blame the players, but he does indicate where they need to improve.

I am glad he is our coach.

To be fair , Jason Taylor, never criticised the refs either.
I guess there are a few coaches who dont. I think Nathan Brown is one as well.

JT also didn't criticise individual players either.

Robbie Farah…

You know what I am talking about Ben.

Following a game.

 

[Furious1]

Has the referring standard declined or has the camera work got better. I think we are nearly better off without the bunker. Let the refs make calls in real time at game speed. Slowing the replays down to frame by frame speed is crazy.

I also think the NRL has to start binning players who rush in and give the ref a gob full. I know in the heat of the moment it is not to react but the ref has to be given space and respect

Yes, the reffing has declined. The biggest mistake in this games history in regards to refs came about with Bill Harrigan and his "feel for the game" and own interpretation of rules.

There's a book, it has all the rules of Rugby League in it. The writing is in black ink, the background is white. There is no grey. If referees, ref to the rules, then how can you make a mistake? Funny how in Rugby, the ball still gets put in the middle of the scrum, because if you don't put it in the middle, it's a friggin penalty!!! Thats what it says in the rule book. Want to tidy up the play the balls in our game? Then penalise players who don't play the ball correctly. There has been too much emphasis on letting the game flow, and it's come at the expense of enforcing the rules. If there's no rules or they aren't enforced you have anarchy and a power struggle and unfortunately the players and coaches have had the upper hand in that struggle for quite sometime.
The refs are there to make sure the game is played according to the rules, if they aren't going to enforce them then we don't require refs, it's that simple really.

 

[TrueTiger]

Has the referring standard declined or has the camera work got better. I think we are nearly better off without the bunker. Let the refs make calls in real time at game speed. Slowing the replays down to frame by frame speed is crazy.

I also think the NRL has to start binning players who rush in and give the ref a gob full. I know in the heat of the moment it is not to react but the ref has to be given space and respect

Yes, the reffing has declined. The biggest mistake in this games history in regards to refs came about with Bill Harrigan and his "feel for the game" and own interpretation of rules.

There's a book, it has all the rules of Rugby League in it. The writing is in black ink, the background is white. There is no grey. If referees, ref to the rules, then how can you make a mistake? Funny how in Rugby, the ball still gets put in the middle of the scrum, because if you don't put it in the middle, it's a friggin penalty!!! Thats what it says in the rule book. Want to tidy up the play the balls in our game? Then penalise players who don't play the ball correctly. There has been too much emphasis on letting the game flow, and it's come at the expense of enforcing the rules. If there's no rules or they aren't enforced you have anarchy and a power struggle and unfortunately the players and coaches have had the upper hand in that struggle for quite sometime.
The refs are there to make sure the game is played according to the rules, if they aren't going to enforce them then we don't require refs, it's that simple really.

Great post F1,rules are rules they outline and define our game,changing them will inevitably change the original game to something else under its banner..

 

[stryker]

Sharks didnt lose because of the refs bad calls, they got a few wrong calls go their way too yesterday IMO.
Didn't see Brad Arthur's press conference but he was entitled to be pretty filthy, they got done over by the refs on 4 or 5 bad calls. A 5-1 penalty count in the 2nd half to Melbourne sure goes a long way to getting you over the line in a close game. Manu Mau's was just sheer stupidity on his part but most of the others were questionable except perhaps Alvaro's one.
The refs are atrocious no question, as is the bunker but garbage like Flanagan carried on with deserved more than just a 10k fine.

I think 100% opposite. The refs did not get Melbourne home, Parras poor discipline did hence the lop sided penalty count. Your bias is blinding you.
Alternately, some of those decisions towards the end of the game yesterday could well have cost the Sharks the win.

 

[Fade_To_Black]

Sharks didnt lose because of the refs bad calls, they got a few wrong calls go their way too yesterday IMO.
Didn't see Brad Arthur's press conference but he was entitled to be pretty filthy, they got done over by the refs on 4 or 5 bad calls. A 5-1 penalty count in the 2nd half to Melbourne sure goes a long way to getting you over the line in a close game. Manu Mau's was just sheer stupidity on his part but most of the others were questionable except perhaps Alvaro's one.
The refs are atrocious no question, as is the bunker but garbage like Flanagan carried on with deserved more than just a 10k fine.

I think 100% opposite. The refs did not get Melbourne home, Parras poor discipline did hence the lop sided penalty count. Your bias is blinding you.
Alternately, some of those decisions towards the end of the game yesterday could well have cost the Sharks the win.

You dont reckon Melbourne's 1st try was from a blatant forward pass? One of the more obvious forward passes of this season IMO, it was just a one-handed sling/lob that didn't remotely look like it went backwards…..how do they miss it when the refs are both hovering around the tryline? -it wasn't like it was a midfield one where the refs might not have had a clear look at it.
The disallowed try against Parra was also very iffy, would of been spewing water if it was our team that had it disallowed.
Ruck penalties are always contentious, Melbourne got a few calls go their way around the ruck in the 2nd half whereas Parra got no joy in that area.
Gallen's drop in the play the ball at the end of their game was his own fault, sure Prior had his hand on the ball a second or so before Gallen dropped it but surely the roided-up freak is strong enough to hold the footy in that instance- it wasn't like it was forcefully reefed out.
As a neutral observer in both of those matches IMO Parra copped a raw deal overall, Cronulla didn't . If your view is different then so be it.

 

[Tigerdon]

Sharks had a 65% completion rate and missed over 30 tackles….but it's the ref fault according to the coach.

 

[Cosimo_Zaretti]

Easy to be sportsmanlike when you're handed an under strength side mid season that's already at the bottom of the ladder. Lets see if he's that reasoned at the pointy end of next year with a season on the line.

So far though; Ivan does seem like the grownup in the room.

 

[Fade_To_Black]

Sharks had a 65% completion rate and missed over 30 tackles….but it's the ref fault according to the coach.

Exactly.

 

[jirskyr]

Has the referring standard declined or has the camera work got better. I think we are nearly better off without the bunker. Let the refs make calls in real time at game speed. Slowing the replays down to frame by frame speed is crazy.

I also think the NRL has to start binning players who rush in and give the ref a gob full. I know in the heat of the moment it is not to react but the ref has to be given space and respect

Yes, the reffing has declined. The biggest mistake in this games history in regards to refs came about with Bill Harrigan and his "feel for the game" and own interpretation of rules.

There's a book, it has all the rules of Rugby League in it. The writing is in black ink, the background is white. There is no grey. If referees, ref to the rules, then how can you make a mistake? Funny how in Rugby, the ball still gets put in the middle of the scrum, because if you don't put it in the middle, it's a friggin penalty!!! Thats what it says in the rule book. Want to tidy up the play the balls in our game? Then penalise players who don't play the ball correctly. There has been too much emphasis on letting the game flow, and it's come at the expense of enforcing the rules. If there's no rules or they aren't enforced you have anarchy and a power struggle and unfortunately the players and coaches have had the upper hand in that struggle for quite sometime.
The refs are there to make sure the game is played according to the rules, if they aren't going to enforce them then we don't require refs, it's that simple really.

Great post F1,rules are rules they outline and define our game,changing them will inevitably change the original game to something else under its banner..

No offence but you want the game to be reffed more like rugby? Please no.

If you blow the pea out of the whistle the game will be worse off than what we have now. I honestly feel rugby is a joke for exactly that reason.

 

[ricksen]

Sharks didnt lose because of the refs bad calls, they got a few wrong calls go their way too yesterday IMO.
Didn't see Brad Arthur's press conference but he was entitled to be pretty filthy, they got done over by the refs on 4 or 5 bad calls. A 5-1 penalty count in the 2nd half to Melbourne sure goes a long way to getting you over the line in a close game. Manu Mau's was just sheer stupidity on his part but most of the others were questionable except perhaps Alvaro's one.
The refs are atrocious no question, as is the bunker but garbage like Flanagan carried on with deserved more than just a 10k fine.

I think 100% opposite. The refs did not get Melbourne home, Parras poor discipline did hence the lop sided penalty count. Your bias is blinding you.
Alternately, some of those decisions towards the end of the game yesterday could well have cost the Sharks the win.

You dont reckon Melbourne's 1st try was from a blatant forward pass? One of the more obvious forward passes of this season IMO, it was just a one-handed sling/lob that didn't remotely look like it went backwards…..how do they miss it when the refs are both hovering around the tryline? -it wasn't like it was a midfield one where the refs might not have had a clear look at it.

It was deflected off the Eels winger - was a great call by the officials.

 

[upthetigers]

Has the referring standard declined or has the camera work got better. I think we are nearly better off without the bunker. Let the refs make calls in real time at game speed. Slowing the replays down to frame by frame speed is crazy.

I also think the NRL has to start binning players who rush in and give the ref a gob full. I know in the heat of the moment it is not to react but the ref has to be given space and respect

When it goes to the bunker I don't think the ref should have to award it a try/no try. They can't be sure and it's the reason it's going to the bunker. They should just send it to the bunker without influencing the decision.

 

[Tim Sheens]

Has the referring standard declined or has the camera work got better. I think we are nearly better off without the bunker. Let the refs make calls in real time at game speed. Slowing the replays down to frame by frame speed is crazy.

I also think the NRL has to start binning players who rush in and give the ref a gob full. I know in the heat of the moment it is not to react but the ref has to be given space and respect

When it goes to the bunker I don't think the ref should have to award it a try/no try. They can't be sure and it's the reason it's going to the bunker. They should just send it to the bunker without influencing the decision.

Just as they used to, sending it up to the video ref with or without the words, "I have an opinion".

Cronulla were unlucky, sure, but they have had the rub on many occasions, as have all of the front runners. For mine, Flanagan is a rat and should still be banned from the game anyhow for the drug program at the sharks.

 

[Furious1]

Has the referring standard declined or has the camera work got better. I think we are nearly better off without the bunker. Let the refs make calls in real time at game speed. Slowing the replays down to frame by frame speed is crazy.

I also think the NRL has to start binning players who rush in and give the ref a gob full. I know in the heat of the moment it is not to react but the ref has to be given space and respect

Yes, the reffing has declined. The biggest mistake in this games history in regards to refs came about with Bill Harrigan and his "feel for the game" and own interpretation of rules.

There's a book, it has all the rules of Rugby League in it. The writing is in black ink, the background is white. There is no grey. If referees, ref to the rules, then how can you make a mistake? Funny how in Rugby, the ball still gets put in the middle of the scrum, because if you don't put it in the middle, it's a friggin penalty!!! Thats what it says in the rule book. Want to tidy up the play the balls in our game? Then penalise players who don't play the ball correctly. There has been too much emphasis on letting the game flow, and it's come at the expense of enforcing the rules. If there's no rules or they aren't enforced you have anarchy and a power struggle and unfortunately the players and coaches have had the upper hand in that struggle for quite sometime.
The refs are there to make sure the game is played according to the rules, if they aren't going to enforce them then we don't require refs, it's that simple really.

Great post F1,rules are rules they outline and define our game,changing them will inevitably change the original game to something else under its banner..

No offence but you want the game to be reffed more like rugby? Please no.

If you blow the pea out of the whistle the game will be worse off than what we have now. I honestly feel rugby is a joke for exactly that reason.

No i want the game to be reffed like Rugby League. I want it to be reffed according to the rules.
Look at line dropouts. How many times is the dropout taken in front of the goal line? Its not a major thing, but somebody ( i think maybe it was Reynolds) got penalised for it because it was "too far" passed the line. Thats the correct call as the dropout needs to be taken from on or behind the tryline. The issue of course comes from what is my interpretation of "too far" in front of the line as opposed to yours? Straight away we have inconsistency from one ref to the next, and thats what kills this game. If the rule was enforced it is black and white and the dropout is taken in front of the goal line it's a penalty EVERY time, not just when it's "too far" in someones opinion.

 

[goldcoast_tiger]

Has the referring standard declined or has the camera work got better. I think we are nearly better off without the bunker. Let the refs make calls in real time at game speed. Slowing the replays down to frame by frame speed is crazy.

I also think the NRL has to start binning players who rush in and give the ref a gob full. I know in the heat of the moment it is not to react but the ref has to be given space and respect

Yes, the reffing has declined. The biggest mistake in this games history in regards to refs came about with Bill Harrigan and his "feel for the game" and own interpretation of rules.

There's a book, it has all the rules of Rugby League in it. The writing is in black ink, the background is white. There is no grey. If referees, ref to the rules, then how can you make a mistake? Funny how in Rugby, the ball still gets put in the middle of the scrum, because if you don't put it in the middle, it's a friggin penalty!!! Thats what it says in the rule book. Want to tidy up the play the balls in our game? Then penalise players who don't play the ball correctly. There has been too much emphasis on letting the game flow, and it's come at the expense of enforcing the rules. If there's no rules or they aren't enforced you have anarchy and a power struggle and unfortunately the players and coaches have had the upper hand in that struggle for quite sometime.
The refs are there to make sure the game is played according to the rules, if they aren't going to enforce them then we don't require refs, it's that simple really.

Great post F1,rules are rules they outline and define our game,changing them will inevitably change the original game to something else under its banner..

The answer to that is usually that there will be too many penalties, and spoil the spectacle.

Well, the spectacle is already being spoiled with the knock ons, forward or "flat " passes,laying over the tackled player, chickens wings, leg pivots, head high tackles , mouthing off at Refs, players continually offside. And general wrestling.
Most of these are being let go one day , and penalised the next.
I agree the rot set in with Harrigan and his stupid refusal to give penalties.
He was also the one who started to let the tackle go on for half an hour( with that being exploited expertly by the Broncos) which eventually led to the gang tackle , and later the biggest blight in the game, wrestling.

As far as I can remember, the tackle laws state that a tackle is complete when the tackled players arm carrying the ball touches the ground, OR, the tackled players FORWARD progress if stopped.
Nowhere does it state that they can stand there for half an hour then pass the ball, be lifted, pushed over the sidelines, picked up and carried in any direction, or pushed sideways.
It says forward progress
The game is fast turning into a lucky dip as to what rules will be applied.

As I've said before, I'd gladly put up with a heap of penalties if it eventually got our game back.
Until that happens, the Coaches will tell there players to keep it up.
Whoever was it that decided that Coaches should have an input into how the game is to be played, and being asked what rule changes should be changed. How Bloody ridiculous.

 

[colmcd]

Don't remember Potter doing it either. Is this our problem?

Nope!

We lost tight matches. But good teams don't get themselves into tight matches as often. If Potter and JT did not blame the refs then they did one thing right.

Now if there is a particular thing that the refs are doing. Attack it. like if they let a team creep in and stand offside from the play the ball. Attack it hard before the game.

Post game, they made a call. You need to improve your team so that your not on the wrong side of 50/50 calls.