Help me (and others) keep faith in Madge...

[2005magic]

I think WT really have to muscle up and start to demonstrate they're not going to continue as a soft touch. Tear up the contracts of players not performing inc the high priced ones- pay them out and get rid of them.Take the NRL to court over the Farah penalty amount- he has not taken it up to date and probably wont now. Our early release of Corey Thompson has bitten us but I can only assume somewhere in the background WT were supposed to get a backline player but that didnt eventuate. Matterson's release without compensation and the obvious Parra meddling. If Bankwest / Parra Stadium is not working out rip it up - we did it because ANZ stadium was going to be torn down. State Govt reversed decision on that so why should we be bound to a ground situation forced on us? And for gods sake pick a home ground.

The coach has a plan to turn things around with getting youth pipeline working and gradually ridding the deadwood- both players and coaching / support staff. I'm for giving Maguire 2 more years to actually be able to judge him in the final year or two when most of the 30 man roster is his and the salary cap can truely be matched against coach / team roster / team performance / club performance and strategy..

 

[cochise]

To those defending Madge, I appreciate the posts and I 'want' to believe...

But can anyone answer the following:

1. What is our defensive structure? They just seem to rush up and that is it. No cohesion at all. Airport lane holes have been there all year without any adjustment. Surely the coach had to react?

More importantly...and this is what concerns me the most...there seems to be absolutely ZERO attempt to get our spine ready for 2021. This period was a crucial chance to try a few things. Instead we got the ancient mariners who are not even wanted for 2021.

We are almost in October 2020 and our 2021 spine is:
1. no one knows
6 and 7 brooks will be one / no one has a clue who the other will be / massive concern.
9. Liddle / Simpkins

Penrith used their dead rubber games to experiment in 2019 and it helped them start 2020 well and build. Madge has done absolutely nothing to use this time to get a head start on 2021.

Here me out .. what if that was a game to showcase potential suitors of our dead wood.

Mate the defence is crap for 2 reasons . The middles don’t put their body in front , and the down benjis side don’t seem to trust each other . Ie. trust that the person can make the 1 on 1 stop. You watch brooks’ side . This used to happen to him all the time . Line breaks galore . Then he got his technique sorted , and they leave him to make the tackle . It doesn’t work all the time , as nothing is perfect , but if you trust your inside man , you can slide onto the shape forming in front of you , as if the ball player hits the under run , the bloke inside has that covered . It’s about trust and intent. There’s no trust , which leads to lack of intent , as you’re on the back foot thinking way too much .

If it was a showcase...then the show was very ugly.

Reality is any team after Reynolds and Packer would know by now what they offer / what they don't offer.

IMO it should have been used to get some rookies and kids game time. Build some combos for 2021.

I don't like setting kids up for failure and putting them into a losing side when they haven't played any football since February is asking too much in my opinion. Get them training in their roles and give them the preseason to and trials to get ready for their debuts.

Valid points.

Who do you see as our spine in 2021 mate?

Mate that is the million $ question, it is looking like Brooks at 7, Liddle at 9 and Mbye at 1. The 6 is what I think is really up in the air with it being between Reynolds, Walters and Madden with Doueihi a smaller possibility. My personal preference would be to give Madden the trials to see how he goes.

 

[twentyforty]

To me he looks like a coach who has run out of ideas. From the point he went postal in the dressing room and abused a chair, he has been struggling. I also think the so called “honesty” session has thrown him as well. I sought of thought that player communication was an area where he excelled and to be publicly called out on it may be bit confronting? He is desperate to shed some players and bring some new talent which is fair enough. I hope it works for him because after that, I am not sure what he’ll do?

I think we should all just hold our nerve. We didn’t achieve this level of mediocrity in 5 minutes, so why should we expect to turn it around in 5 minutes. Our older, more experienced hang abouts are not living up to their price tags. And are certainly not showing any quality leadership for younger players. They will be gone over the next 2 seasons along with our precious goal of finishing ninth. This level of mediocrity has taken nine seasons to establish.

Madge is in his 2nd season and things have actually gone backwards.
When I rate this season compared to last we seem a very ill disciplined side as another din bin last night!
His communication very poor with Benji and lacks leadership qualities, difficult conversation I agree but harps in about standards and needs to set the benchmark himself.
Agree needs more time personally I give him two years but he also needs to mature and get better himself if has the same expectations of the squad.

It is very hard to have that conversation when it is already splashed over the papers the day before the scheduled meeting.

He had made the decision, someone around him was in the know and leaked it. when confronted by Benji from reports said give me 24 hours to think it over. I am assuming Benji told Manager and story was leaked??

Conversation should have been this is my decision moving forward and the reasons why when confronted. Leadership nil sane as what we have on the field.

There is one thing about all the articles about Madge that I can't reconcile. Apparently he is too tough on the players, I have know a lot of tough managers and coaches over the years and not one of them had trouble having a tough conversation. In fact most of them were much too blunt and weren't able to deliver bad news in a manner that didn't get people offside.

You make a good point Cochise. I’m also having difficulty understanding Benji’s view of events? He claims he wanted to come to a decision at seasons end but confronted Coach because of what he had read in the paper. He now has miraculously made a decision to play on if he can get a gig?
He claimed he had no idea why he was dropped, assuming that his attack let him down, only to find out later that it was his poor defence . I find it all very confusing.?

 

[Strider]

Does Madge have one more year left? If so I reckon extend one more year now. 2022 is plenty of time, no more Reynolds and packer. We should be a genuine threat then. If not then new coach.

 

[Lauren]

To me he looks like a coach who has run out of ideas. From the point he went postal in the dressing room and abused a chair, he has been struggling. I also think the so called “honesty” session has thrown him as well. I sought of thought that player communication was an area where he excelled and to be publicly called out on it may be bit confronting? He is desperate to shed some players and bring some new talent which is fair enough. I hope it works for him because after that, I am not sure what he’ll do?

I think we should all just hold our nerve. We didn’t achieve this level of mediocrity in 5 minutes, so why should we expect to turn it around in 5 minutes. Our older, more experienced hang abouts are not living up to their price tags. And are certainly not showing any quality leadership for younger players. They will be gone over the next 2 seasons along with our precious goal of finishing ninth. This level of mediocrity has taken nine seasons to establish.

**Madge is in his 2nd season and things have actually gone backwards.**
When I rate this season compared to last we seem a very ill disciplined side as another din bin last night!
His communication very poor with Benji and lacks leadership qualities, difficult conversation I agree but harps in about standards and needs to set the benchmark himself.
Agree needs more time personally I give him two years but he also needs to mature and get better himself if has the same expectations of the squad.

Why do people continue to ignore that we are playing in a reformatted competition where speed, size and attacking ability are more determinant of a team's outcome.

Every WT supporter knows that not all of our players are suited to this style and unfortunately it shows. No offence but probably only Brooks, Nofo, Grant, Liddle, AJ(on his day), Aloiai and a couple of others are but even they're still struggling to adapt due to overall strength/quality of the team.

Every team is playing in a revised competition you can only compare how we adapt compared to others, Titans good example now 9th.

Agree not all players will buy in but also coach needs to understand that his way is also not the right way he should have learned that from his exit at Souths even after a premiership.

But it's the cattle they have at their disposal. Almost every other forward pack can get a roll on up in the middle but us, and they also have the advantage of having some solid finishers (Brimson, Don, Sami, C Thompson) meanwhile we've suffered team instability all year due to injury and have had to use our inexperienced youth.
I can agree that Madge experimenting with the halves was an unnecessary disruption.
I can also agree that Madge needs to adapt to a more attack oriented game plan(or bring someone in to help him with that), but there's only so much that can be coached and we're still seriously lacking in several departments/aspects.

 

[cochise]

I think WT really have to muscle up and start to demonstrate they're not going to continue as a soft touch. Tear up the contracts of players not performing inc the high priced ones- pay them out and get rid of them.Take the NRL to court over the Farah penalty amount- he has not taken it up to date and probably wont now. Our early release of Corey Thompson has bitten us but I can only assume somewhere in the background WT were supposed to get a backline player but that didnt eventuate. Matterson's release without compensation and the obvious Parra meddling. If Bankwest / Parra Stadium is not working out rip it up - we did it because ANZ stadium was going to be torn down. State Govt reversed decision on that so why should we be bound to a ground situation forced on us? And for gods sake pick a home ground.

The coach has a plan to turn things around with getting youth pipeline working and gradually ridding the deadwood- both players and coaching / support staff. I'm for giving Maguire 2 more years to actually be able to judge him in the final year or two when most of the 30 man roster is his and the salary cap can truely be matched against coach / team roster / team performance / club performance and strategy..

I think Farah will be involved in the club next year, the Bankwest deal is part of the 10 year deal we signed 8 years ago so still has 2 more years to run.

I think we may see an announcement about one home ground around this time next year with hopefully a farewell year to the grounds we are saying goodbye to, that is how I would do it anyway.

 

[Tigerbuck63]

To me he looks like a coach who has run out of ideas. From the point he went postal in the dressing room and abused a chair, he has been struggling. I also think the so called “honesty” session has thrown him as well. I sought of thought that player communication was an area where he excelled and to be publicly called out on it may be bit confronting? He is desperate to shed some players and bring some new talent which is fair enough. I hope it works for him because after that, I am not sure what he’ll do?

I think we should all just hold our nerve. We didn’t achieve this level of mediocrity in 5 minutes, so why should we expect to turn it around in 5 minutes. Our older, more experienced hang abouts are not living up to their price tags. And are certainly not showing any quality leadership for younger players. They will be gone over the next 2 seasons along with our precious goal of finishing ninth. This level of mediocrity has taken nine seasons to establish.

Madge is in his 2nd season and things have actually gone backwards.
When I rate this season compared to last we seem a very ill disciplined side as another din bin last night!
His communication very poor with Benji and lacks leadership qualities, difficult conversation I agree but harps in about standards and needs to set the benchmark himself.
Agree needs more time personally I give him two years but he also needs to mature and get better himself if has the same expectations of the squad.

It is very hard to have that conversation when it is already splashed over the papers the day before the scheduled meeting.

He had made the decision, someone around him was in the know and leaked it. when confronted by Benji from reports said give me 24 hours to think it over. I am assuming Benji told Manager and story was leaked??

Conversation should have been this is my decision moving forward and the reasons why when confronted. Leadership nil sane as what we have on the field.

There is one thing about all the articles about Madge that I can't reconcile. Apparently he is too tough on the players, I have know a lot of tough managers and coaches over the years and not one of them had trouble having a tough conversation. In fact most of them were much too blunt and weren't able to deliver bad news in a manner that didn't get people offside.

I really don’t read into how tough he is on the players as long as it’s also balanced for the welfare of whole team.

We are talking about how Madge managed the Benji situation and it was pretty poor.

I do agree with the decision but not how if was mis managed and the way he found out.

If you talk the talk you need to have conversations that are transparent and timing of these is also critical.

Madge mis managed this process that also effects the culture of the club.

 

[cochise]

To me he looks like a coach who has run out of ideas. From the point he went postal in the dressing room and abused a chair, he has been struggling. I also think the so called “honesty” session has thrown him as well. I sought of thought that player communication was an area where he excelled and to be publicly called out on it may be bit confronting? He is desperate to shed some players and bring some new talent which is fair enough. I hope it works for him because after that, I am not sure what he’ll do?

I think we should all just hold our nerve. We didn’t achieve this level of mediocrity in 5 minutes, so why should we expect to turn it around in 5 minutes. Our older, more experienced hang abouts are not living up to their price tags. And are certainly not showing any quality leadership for younger players. They will be gone over the next 2 seasons along with our precious goal of finishing ninth. This level of mediocrity has taken nine seasons to establish.

Madge is in his 2nd season and things have actually gone backwards.
When I rate this season compared to last we seem a very ill disciplined side as another din bin last night!
His communication very poor with Benji and lacks leadership qualities, difficult conversation I agree but harps in about standards and needs to set the benchmark himself.
Agree needs more time personally I give him two years but he also needs to mature and get better himself if has the same expectations of the squad.

It is very hard to have that conversation when it is already splashed over the papers the day before the scheduled meeting.

He had made the decision, someone around him was in the know and leaked it. when confronted by Benji from reports said give me 24 hours to think it over. I am assuming Benji told Manager and story was leaked??

Conversation should have been this is my decision moving forward and the reasons why when confronted. Leadership nil sane as what we have on the field.

There is one thing about all the articles about Madge that I can't reconcile. Apparently he is too tough on the players, I have know a lot of tough managers and coaches over the years and not one of them had trouble having a tough conversation. In fact most of them were much too blunt and weren't able to deliver bad news in a manner that didn't get people offside.

I really don’t read into how tough he is on the players as long as it’s also balanced for the welfare of whole team.

We are talking about how Madge managed the Benji situation and it was pretty poor.

I do agree with the decision but not how if was mis managed and the way he found out.

If you talk the talk you need to have conversations that are transparent and timing of these is also critical.

Madge mis managed this process that also effects the culture of the club.

I don't think it played out the way it you think it did.

 

[tig_prmz]

It's very weird that we let Matterson go without a proper compensation. I am thinking we may have been negligent in duty of care and didn't want to risk Matterson taking any legal action. It's either that or we are the dumbest club in the comp for letting our best player go without any compensation.

 

[Blacknwhite]

True I guess Brad was struggling at Eels wasn't he, till he started to form his own roster with players like Brown, Moses Fergo etc. Maybe it is best to just give him one year extension.

There is no excuses then if he has the players he wants, hardest part will be attracting players and a mixture of juniors that want to play got the coach, each other and the club with their supporters.

This is our biggest hurdle.... attracting the players.

Im not overly pro Madge, more so pro coach. I have been perplexed by his interchange all season, and though his constant chopping and changing of the line-up week to week has looked like madness at times, can appreciate that he is looking for accountability, professional level standards, and blooding kids.

Many posters have been burning Madge for what seems a lack of structure and game-plan. All I can say is, that if you think the players turn up week to week and perform anywhere even remotely close to how they are asked to, or trained to, or should even be expected to at a professional level for 80 minutes, then you have rocks in your head.

Our rookies really suffer because of the lack of real tradesmen.

I originally wasnt too happy with the Tamou signing, but now Im thinking Tamou and Packer may be the tradesmen we need to finish the apprenticeships of our young pack. Anyone who has worked in a trade knows that there are plenty of 3rd yr apprentices that can masquerade as tradesmen, but they lack the experience... I believe Tamou and Packer will have the gravity in leadership to be listened to, which will leave a legacy for Twal and Aloai to step into, they are only 24 which is the dawn of most props careers.

The Fox, not thrilled with him as a FB, but I really like AD in the centres. Doueihi is a well educated and intelligent footballer, who can guide a young winger.

People have said in this thread that other teams rookies seem to step up so much better prepared. It is only because they step into a much more professional and competent system, where they know their role and arent scrambling for 60mins to cling to a game. Confidence is king, and teams know we are fragile at full strength. Throw a kid a few games post debut, and its like a pack of lions trying to isolate the weakest wilderbeast from the herd for an easy meal. They are ground up and spat out.

 

[CarltonDry]

True I guess Brad was struggling at Eels wasn't he, till he started to form his own roster with players like Brown, Moses Fergo etc. Maybe it is best to just give him one year extension.

The difference between the 2 coaches is BA can attract players but MM can't

 

[hsvjones]

I still support Madge 100% of what he is doing...

Lets not forget this team is mainly made up of players he did not buy and if he had no Reynolds, Packer, Mbye, McQueen and Farah Salary cap breach he would have around 2.5 Mil to buy Players that suit his style and defensive structure..

Lets remember these current players have been bad for years now and he is working his butt off to remove the dead wood but you cannot just tap them on the shoulder and say goodbye due to this thing called a "Contract". He has pretty much given everyone a go this year to try and prove themselves and some have but not many. (we have used the most players of any team this year)
He needs 2 more years to get this roster right and turnover the unwanted players and then people can start to judge.
Ask yourself with the squad we have had this last 2 years even a Bennett or Belly could not of got them firing. Go back through all the game day treads and see all the comments about the average team we have and how we need to move them on but as you can all agree he cannot because no one wants them.. So how about we at least give him a chance with a squad that he has picked to prove himself as firing him puts us back a few years again..
You don't win a comp in ESL, NRL and be the National coach by mistake so clearly he has the abilities to develop and win...

Don’t look at what he’s done in the past, judge him by what he’s doing now. He has an inability to get the roster performing, and in fact they are going backwards. The ‘not his team’ argument is nonsense. No one is expecting us to win the whole thing, but an improvement with the current roster is a realistic expectation. It is more his team this year than last year and we are playing worse this year.

He might turn it around next year but so far he hasn’t done a good job.

We all have own thoughts but I disagree and stick by the fact this is not his team. The Experienced players on the roster are a year older this year and have clocked off. You go though most teams and pick out there top 3 earners (around 800k + each) and see what they do for there teams on and off the field.. Then look at our top 3 earners and tell me what they give us ?? Packer - Nothing at all / Reynolds Nothing as all / Mbye can cover a few positions but not worth 800k... These 3 top earners (taking up 20%+ of your salary cap) are NOT Madge selections so its hard to run a team on 2 mil less than other teams due to past bad recruitment decisions. This is backed up by the fact no other clubs want a bar of them even at a heavily reduced rate.. That alone should say it all.
As I said before ask the same questions in 2 years time and if we have not improved than I will agree with you and say his not working.

 

[tig_prmz]

True I guess Brad was struggling at Eels wasn't he, till he started to form his own roster with players like Brown, Moses Fergo etc. Maybe it is best to just give him one year extension.

The difference between the 2 coaches is BA can attract players but MM can't

I don't think it's about the coach, it's about club history, club reputation and fellow players.

 

[CarltonDry]

True I guess Brad was struggling at Eels wasn't he, till he started to form his own roster with players like Brown, Moses Fergo etc. Maybe it is best to just give him one year extension.

The difference between the 2 coaches is BA can attract players but MM can't

I don't think it's about the coach, it's about club history, club reputation and fellow players.

Souths say hi

 

[Blacknwhite]

True I guess Brad was struggling at Eels wasn't he, till he started to form his own roster with players like Brown, Moses Fergo etc. Maybe it is best to just give him one year extension.

The difference between the 2 coaches is BA can attract players but MM can't

I don't think it's about the coach, it's about club history, club reputation and fellow players.

Souths say hi

are you suggesting we get Pascoe to throw a leg over Mrs Burgess?

 

[Joelcainenumber1fan]

been saying this for a while now whhhhyyyyy are we still focused on this year when the seasons been over for weeks
why did our style completely change when benji came back,we were all about defense after he got dropped

 

[Joelcainenumber1fan]

also i think we should be looking at a 1,6,7 and 9 if we have to buy 1 this season even if he cant come over to 2022
than u build around them with juniors and a few more experience players

 

[ElleryHanley]

To those defending Madge, I appreciate the posts and I 'want' to believe...

But can anyone answer the following:

1. What is our defensive structure? They just seem to rush up and that is it. No cohesion at all. Airport lane holes have been there all year without any adjustment. Surely the coach had to react?

More importantly...and this is what concerns me the most...there seems to be absolutely ZERO attempt to get our spine ready for 2021. This period was a crucial chance to try a few things. Instead we got the ancient mariners who are not even wanted for 2021.

We are almost in October 2020 and our 2021 spine is:
1. no one knows
6 and 7 brooks will be one / no one has a clue who the other will be / massive concern.
9. Liddle / Simpkins

Penrith used their dead rubber games to experiment in 2019 and it helped them start 2020 well and build. Madge has done absolutely nothing to use this time to get a head start on 2021.

Here me out .. what if that was a game to showcase potential suitors of our dead wood.

Mate the defence is crap for 2 reasons . The middles don’t put their body in front , and the down benjis side don’t seem to trust each other . Ie. trust that the person can make the 1 on 1 stop. You watch brooks’ side . This used to happen to him all the time . Line breaks galore . Then he got his technique sorted , and they leave him to make the tackle . It doesn’t work all the time , as nothing is perfect , but if you trust your inside man , you can slide onto the shape forming in front of you , as if the ball player hits the under run , the bloke inside has that covered . It’s about trust and intent. There’s no trust , which leads to lack of intent , as you’re on the back foot thinking way too much .

If it was a showcase...then the show was very ugly.

Reality is any team after Reynolds and Packer would know by now what they offer / what they don't offer.

IMO it should have been used to get some rookies and kids game time. Build some combos for 2021.

I don't like setting kids up for failure and putting them into a losing side when they haven't played any football since February is asking too much in my opinion. Get them training in their roles and give them the preseason to and trials to get ready for their debuts.

Valid points.

Who do you see as our spine in 2021 mate?

Mate that is the million $ question, it is looking like Brooks at 7, Liddle at 9 and Mbye at 1. The 6 is what I think is really up in the air with it being between Reynolds, Walters and Madden with Doueihi a smaller possibility. My personal preference would be to give Madden the trials to see how he goes.

Looks that way. I can't see that spine getting a team to the finals though.

Hoping for JAC and / or Burton.

 

[Harvey]

We will have a much better idea of Madge next year.

With our recruitment we need him to nurture, develop and improve young players.

Looking at Mikaele, Talau and others I am not convinced he can.

 

[GNR4LIFE]

We will have a much better idea of Madge next year.

With our recruitment we need him to nurture, develop and improve young players.

Looking at Mikaele, Talau and others I am not convinced he can.

Mikaele is going backwards.