How Benji’s big Tiger risks will change club fortunes in long run

https://www.zerotackle.com/how-benjis-big-tiger-risks-will-change-club-fortunes-in-long-run-210203/
The past week has been extremely newsworthy for the Wests Tigers.

Star second-rower Isaiah Papali'i was granted permission to speak with other clubs for 2025. He was then snapped up by the Panthers very quickly.

Meanwhile CEO Shane Richardson has reportedly flown to England to discuss the availability of a number of his players.

As strange as this is going to sound, I absolutely love what I am hearing from the Tigers right now.

Talk was that Papali'i may have requested the chance to look at options next season. If this is true, the Tigers have absolutely made the right decision in allowing him to leave.

Will it help results in 2025? Almost certainly not. He's arguably a top three player for the club and his presence will be surely missed.

That said, the Wests Tigers are in a complete rebuild right now and it is far more important to establish a culture.

A culture where players want to be at the club.

A culture where players are targeted and signed based on need and value, rather than just availability.

Ultimately a winning culture!

Despite the negativity on some corners of social media, Marshall and co have accepted that a change needs to be made and embracing the short-term pain for long-term gain.

Regarding Shane Richardson's trip to England, reports are that he is shopping a number of players to Super League clubs.

I have no idea who is supposedly on this reported shopping list but I dare say there are some overpaid and underperforming names in need of some warmer clothes.

Despite some sections of the media already penning Benji Marshall's coaching career obituary, I love what I have seen from the rookie coach to date.

Yes, results aren't great and finals look gone for 2024 but anyone who expected a seismic shift in one off-season is not living in reality.

We've seen the emergence of Lachlan Galvin, a better than expected return on Aidan Sezer and most importantly of all the signing of Jarome Luai.

Most importantly of all though Marshall looks to have implemented a "club first" mentality the Tigers have lacked for many years.

Rumours of players complaining about being trained too hard under Michael Maguire. Premiership winning coach and current NSW Blues coach Michael Maguire.

Players using the Tigers as a shopwindow before demanding releases. See Ryan Matterson.

Targeting former big name players on big money only to see them underperform. I won't name names but there are four or five in the current "strongest 17".

Apisai Koroisau and Jarome Luai are the outliers, but most of the Tigers recent signings have been due to players having little other choice.

I don't want to kick the Tigers while they are down but it's truth!

Again, I don't want to name those players, but again ... we all know who they are.

By showing players, and fans, that the club isn't going to pander to player or agent demands, or is willing to move want-away stars on, they're showing confidence in themselves.

Confident that they can, once again, be a destination club. Confident that they can, once again, be a team that plays finals footy.

How many times have we seen big name players sign for Melbourne, Penrith or the Roosters for "unders"? Players will take under market value money to play for contenders.

Meanwhile the Tigers, currently, have to pay over market value to attract top line stars.

I'm hopeful that the Luai and Api connection can help kickstart a recruitment drive like that enjoyed by the Dogs. A few years ago the Dogs were feasting on scraps. In recent seasons they've attracted names like Matt Burton, Viliame Kikau and Stephen Crichton.

Those recruits will only arrive though if the Tigers can show they are serious.

Letting a supposed want-away star go shows that perhaps they are.

Flying your CEO to England to offer up players you've deemed excess to requirements also says they're getting serious.

There are four of five current Tigers who could go over to England and be stars. Or at least prolong their careers for a few seasons.

That said, they're no longer up to elite NRL standard, at least in the Tigers eyes.

Replacing Papali'i will be difficult but there is no way you can convince me that he's the difference between the Tigers making the eight and not.

If we're talking prime Cooper Cronk then of course the Tigers aren't allowing him to walk away but in Papali'i's case, so be it.

The player market isn't exactly heaving for 2025 right now but three days ago we didn't know Papali'i was going to move either.

With players and agents pushing for moves almost weekly, the Tigers can now sit on a pile of cap space and make smart choices, based on need.

You'd have to travel a long way to find a Tigers fan who would rather support a team without Papali'i in the side than one with him in there.

That said, there isn't a Tigers fan who, having suffered for over a decade now, wouldn't cop another down year or two if it meant a shift for the club long-term.

Benji and co have taken steps to ensure that happens.

Maybe it doesn't. At least they've changed from what they've been doing for ten years now, which absolutely has not worked.
 
I think Benjis holiday is for the most obvious reason
Week after week after week losing
Week after week playing with one or two in the bin
Week after week players being suspended
Players wanting out
Hey this job is harder than he thought
Stress levels rising .Needs a break !
 
The club has won 10 of their last 60 games and is on its way to their third spoon in a row …

These results are matching historic levels of ineptitude during the NRL era now pushing 25 years …

As we sit here in the middle of another dead season..no one can honestly say that things will be better next year …we don’t know what the team is going to look like .. but things are not trending well…trying to spin the early loss of this player as a positive , who whilst has been disappointing is one of a handful of genuine first graders at the club, is pure BS in my mind…. The three time premiers wasted no time acquiring him,,,

The team won’t improve overall by attracting players like Luia and Turuva but losing Ice and possibly Stef (?) … two steps forward… two steps back … it’s a team sport …so you have to improve the squad …. One in one out isn’t helping …

Lot of pressure on Richo to make something happen for next year …
As each year comes around it’s seems more and more an impossible task.
 
I think Benjis holiday is for the most obvious reason
Week after week after week losing
Week after week playing with one or two in the bin
Week after week players being suspended
Players wanting out
Hey this job is harder than he thought
Stress levels rising .Needs a break !
As predicted.
Throwing a total greenhorn into the top coaching job with the worst club in the league was always going to end in tears.
It’s quite cruel.
 
In defence. Samuela missed 6 tackles last game including misreads/miscommunications on our own goal line to concede tries. He is good with ball in hand but has a lot of work to do with his defence.

Still think he has been better. Paps' one on one misses have been quite bad at times. Sam had a really poor start to the last game, something totally expected of first year rookie playing 80 minutes every week. The way he came back in the game was impressive. Personally I struggle to see how anyone can say Papali'i has been better then Fainu. But it's all opinions.
 
Even if this is the case … which I find very debatable…. we need two edge players right? How Sam is going is not relevant to losing Ice…

Perhaps you could also answer why one of the best teams in our lifetimes have decided to sign Ice as soon as he hit the market ?

I can answer that, they see him for what he is, a role player in a strong environment.

Also, just on your first comment saying Sam isn't relevant to losing Ice, I was replying to the comment that said he has been our best backrower, so it's very relevant I mention Sam otherwise I can't debate if he has been our best.
 
https://www.zerotackle.com/how-benjis-big-tiger-risks-will-change-club-fortunes-in-long-run-210203/
The past week has been extremely newsworthy for the Wests Tigers.

Star second-rower Isaiah Papali'i was granted permission to speak with other clubs for 2025. He was then snapped up by the Panthers very quickly.

Meanwhile CEO Shane Richardson has reportedly flown to England to discuss the availability of a number of his players.

As strange as this is going to sound, I absolutely love what I am hearing from the Tigers right now.

Talk was that Papali'i may have requested the chance to look at options next season. If this is true, the Tigers have absolutely made the right decision in allowing him to leave.

Will it help results in 2025? Almost certainly not. He's arguably a top three player for the club and his presence will be surely missed.

That said, the Wests Tigers are in a complete rebuild right now and it is far more important to establish a culture.

A culture where players want to be at the club.

A culture where players are targeted and signed based on need and value, rather than just availability.

Ultimately a winning culture!

Despite the negativity on some corners of social media, Marshall and co have accepted that a change needs to be made and embracing the short-term pain for long-term gain.

Regarding Shane Richardson's trip to England, reports are that he is shopping a number of players to Super League clubs.

I have no idea who is supposedly on this reported shopping list but I dare say there are some overpaid and underperforming names in need of some warmer clothes.

Despite some sections of the media already penning Benji Marshall's coaching career obituary, I love what I have seen from the rookie coach to date.

Yes, results aren't great and finals look gone for 2024 but anyone who expected a seismic shift in one off-season is not living in reality.

We've seen the emergence of Lachlan Galvin, a better than expected return on Aidan Sezer and most importantly of all the signing of Jarome Luai.

Most importantly of all though Marshall looks to have implemented a "club first" mentality the Tigers have lacked for many years.

Rumours of players complaining about being trained too hard under Michael Maguire. Premiership winning coach and current NSW Blues coach Michael Maguire.

Players using the Tigers as a shopwindow before demanding releases. See Ryan Matterson.

Targeting former big name players on big money only to see them underperform. I won't name names but there are four or five in the current "strongest 17".

Apisai Koroisau and Jarome Luai are the outliers, but most of the Tigers recent signings have been due to players having little other choice.

I don't want to kick the Tigers while they are down but it's truth!

Again, I don't want to name those players, but again ... we all know who they are.

By showing players, and fans, that the club isn't going to pander to player or agent demands, or is willing to move want-away stars on, they're showing confidence in themselves.

Confident that they can, once again, be a destination club. Confident that they can, once again, be a team that plays finals footy.

How many times have we seen big name players sign for Melbourne, Penrith or the Roosters for "unders"? Players will take under market value money to play for contenders.

Meanwhile the Tigers, currently, have to pay over market value to attract top line stars.

I'm hopeful that the Luai and Api connection can help kickstart a recruitment drive like that enjoyed by the Dogs. A few years ago the Dogs were feasting on scraps. In recent seasons they've attracted names like Matt Burton, Viliame Kikau and Stephen Crichton.

Those recruits will only arrive though if the Tigers can show they are serious.

Letting a supposed want-away star go shows that perhaps they are.

Flying your CEO to England to offer up players you've deemed excess to requirements also says they're getting serious.

There are four of five current Tigers who could go over to England and be stars. Or at least prolong their careers for a few seasons.

That said, they're no longer up to elite NRL standard, at least in the Tigers eyes.

Replacing Papali'i will be difficult but there is no way you can convince me that he's the difference between the Tigers making the eight and not.

If we're talking prime Cooper Cronk then of course the Tigers aren't allowing him to walk away but in Papali'i's case, so be it.

The player market isn't exactly heaving for 2025 right now but three days ago we didn't know Papali'i was going to move either.

With players and agents pushing for moves almost weekly, the Tigers can now sit on a pile of cap space and make smart choices, based on need.

You'd have to travel a long way to find a Tigers fan who would rather support a team without Papali'i in the side than one with him in there.

That said, there isn't a Tigers fan who, having suffered for over a decade now, wouldn't cop another down year or two if it meant a shift for the club long-term.

Benji and co have taken steps to ensure that happens.

Maybe it doesn't. At least they've changed from what they've been doing for ten years now, which absolutely has not worked.
Some good stuff there WSB, but I’d just like to see us rack up a couple more wins to give us some momentum coz at the moment our fighting spirit (usually for 60 mins) is getting us nowhere on the table.
I think I wrote earlier in the year that new coaches invariably start out by tightening things up and coaching to not lose. Over time they change tack and coach to win.
I hope Benji is sitting under a coconut tree mapping out some attacking brilliance.
 
I can answer that, they see him for what he is, a role player in a strong environment.

Also, just on your first comment saying Sam isn't relevant to losing Ice, I was replying to the comment that said he has been our best backrower, so it's very relevant I mention Sam otherwise I can't debate if he has been our best.

not sure what you mean by “role player “… sounds a bit derogatory …but the three time premiers are likely paying him $600k …possibly more …its not bad coin for what many here are saying is for a crap player ..

Fair enough on the explanation on the second point …I do think others have pointed towards Sam’s form as some type of justification for moving on early from Ice … makes zero sense to me,,,it’s ok to have two edge players …
 
not sure what you mean by “role player “… sounds a bit derogatory …but the three time premiers are likely paying him $600k …possibly more …its not bad coin for what many here are saying is for a crap player ..

Fair enough on the explanation on the second point …I do think others have pointed towards Sam’s form as some type of justification for moving on early from Ice … makes zero sense to me,,,it’s ok to have two edge players …

It is derogatory to an extent. A role player is someone who is only capable of having consistent positive output in a certain environment. Papalli has shown at 2 weaker clubs he struggles to perform to level his reputation suggests. His years at Parra were in a strong environment and he was good. He now gets the chance to move to the strongest of environments at Penrith after failing here in a weaker one.

There is nothing wrong with being a role player, every club has and needs them. We have too many of these players, so to get rid of one that is probably on the most money makes me happy.

Fainu has shown he is a player that can have an impact even in losing teams and weak environments.
 
It is derogatory to an extent. A role player is someone who is only capable of having consistent positive output in a certain environment. Papalli has shown at 2 weaker clubs he struggles to perform to level his reputation suggests. His years at Parra were in a strong environment and he was good. He now gets the chance to move to the strongest of environments at Penrith after failing here in a weaker one.

There is nothing wrong with being a role player, every club has and needs them. We have too many of these players, so to get rid of one that is probably on the most money makes me happy.

Fainu has shown he is a player that can have ansting impact even in losing teams and weak environments.

Regadless of our opinions ,… one of the greatest club teams in the last 50 years who have refused to overpay players to keep them, have decided to pay good money for him …i’ll be interested to see how he goes there…

Sam Fainu is still new … let’s see how he goes when the film is out on him ..( see Bula) …
 
Regadless of our opinions ,… one of the greatest club teams in the last 50 years who have refused to overpay players to keep them, have decided to pay good money for him …i’ll be interested to see how he goes there…

Sam Fainu is still new … let’s see how he goes when the film is out on him ..( see Bula) …

So have you been happy with Papali'i output in a Tigers jersey the past 2 years for the money we are paying him?
 
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So have you been happy with Papali'i output in a Tigers jersey the past 2 years for the money we are paying him?

No… but Penrith must be right ?

I would have kept him one more year ..he would have been motivated playing for a new deal elsewhere … also… Luia can’t do it on his own …do you think he might need some other quality players around him ?
 
In comparing ice to other backrowers shouldn’t you asses back a few weeks before he had contract inspiration to play better
 
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No… but Penrith must be right ?

I would have kept him one more year ..he would have been motivated playing for a new deal elsewhere … also… Luia can’t do it on his own …do you think he might need some other quality players around him ?

If you haven't been happy with him then why are we even discussing this? Seems like your picking a debate for the sake of a debate.

I guess the only area we differ is preference in how to manage a squad. While your unhappy with Papali'i, you see him better then the other options we have so you want to keep him. I can understand that.

For me personally, I have a belief that if an international level player is underforming constantly and having zero impact on improving the club I'd rather throw someone in on less money hungry for an opportunity. Just personal preference. It burns me to see establish players fail. Youngsters can go up and down but its less mentally debilitating to us fans to watch a youngsters not affecting our cap do their best.
 
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If you haven't been happy with him then why are we even discussing this? Seems like your picking a debate for the sake of a debate.

I guess the only area we differ is preference in how to manage a squad. While your unhappy with Papali'i, you see him better then the other options we have so you want to keep him. I can understand that.

For me personally, I have a belief that if an international level player is underforming constantly and having zero impact on improving the club I'd rather throw someone in on less money hungry for an opportunity. Just personal preference. It burns me to see establish players fail. Youngsters can go up and down but its less mentally debilitating to us fans to watch a youngsters not affecting our cap do their best.

Im not happy with many players on the team … why would you be on a team that wins 10 games out of 60?

Having said that ..he is one of the best 7 or 8 players at the club this year .. and just because you decide to move him on early ..doesn’t mean you will replace him with a better player … players in the main don’t want to come here …unless you pay big overs …surely you realise this by now ?

I keep saying that he clearly has value to the premiers who are paying considerable money for him,,. Doesn’t the fact they value him speak volumes about him as a player?

He was only under contract one more year …like I said he would have had to show his best form to get the best new deal possible ( he is only 26 ..) so he would have been motivated to play well whilst you have more time to get him replaced ..and provide another experienced player on the squad …if they wanted to move on players than there are older, more expensive guys they could have started with … but of course no one else wants these guys ..
 

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