If you could start Over

[tigeress]

Maguire, first shown the door,he's done enough damage

Your right on the money and by season’s end many other’s will wake up to it

As a previous poster said : we have nearly used up all the coaches in the NRL, who is ever going to be good enough to coach these players !

I think (hopefully) given the chance to gel we will come good....

 

[Mighty_Tiger]

Lucy is so overrated. Nothing but swagger. All sizzle and no steak. Bring on the downvotes. I’m fearless.

He has started the season poor.
He needs to lift, stay in position & mark his man.

 

[Goanna57]

Maguire, first shown the door,he's done enough damage

Your right on the money and by season’s end many other’s will wake up to it

As a previous poster said : we have nearly used up all the coaches in the NRL, who is ever going to be good enough to coach these players !

I think (hopefully) given the chance to gel we will come good....

These players are the ones that Maguire wanted he brought majority to the club. But I do like your optimism

 

[Speed2burn]

Lucy is so overrated. Nothing but swagger. All sizzle and no steak. Bring on the downvotes. I’m fearless.

He has started the season poor.
He needs to lift, stay in position & mark his man.

Because he is doing way too much defense on the back of the teams poor discipline. It drains you

For the record, we’ve had to defend 8-10 more sets than our opposition the past 2 weeks through poor ball handling / stupid penalties

 

[jirskyr]

Nofo worries me a lot right now
hes attack has completely gone since he got his contract

he had one great year...it was a myth

The only myth is the coach

We've tried just about every coach in Australia.

Replacing a coach who's won two premierships with yet another new coaching experiment would be madness.

One premiership In nrl and even the club he won that at got rid of him and there still making finals. When he started we were 9th his first year 9th again next year 11th
do we need to hit rock bottom.Maguire has recruited majority of the playing squad and assistants of his choice it rests with him as he whould say he must take ownership of the performance’s

So what you are saying is Maguire developed a roster capable of making the finals for the next decade? Or are you suggesting it was 100% Anthony Seibold's influence on the roster that got them from 12th to 3rd in one season?

Before Maguire, Souths made the finals once in 10 NRL seasons (once in 20 NRL/ARL/NSWRL seasons), including 3 spoons. During Maguire they made the finals 4/6 years and won a comp. After Maguire they have made the finals 3 more consecutive years.

Doesn't matter if Souths eventually outsted Madge, he was very successful in turning one of the most under-performing clubs in the NRL era into a powerhouse. If that's the least of what Madge can do at the Tigers, so be it, give him the reins.

Souths fans permanently indebted to Madge, nobody before or after has had Souths in a Grand Final since 1971.

 

[Viking Warrior]

If we keep losing maybe Maguire doesn't survive who knows...

Maybe yes maybe no but as I said in another post why rush to re-sign him why not wait until round 10/12 then decide. There was talk late last season that there was discontent in the dressing rooms

who would we get if we didn't re-sign him
Flannagan dear God
Bennett
or do we try for
Fitzgibbon
Jason Ryles

Bennett for a year with Ciraldo as assistant to take over

 

[Roar_Power]

If I could start over I would choose a different team.

 

[earl]

For the record, we’ve had to defend 8-10 more sets than our opposition the past 2 weeks through poor ball handling / stupid penalties

This is what we need to fix. Then it's just the glaring problems. Brooks needs to get rid of the couple of crud plays he has every game and turn those into quality plays. AD needs to help out as well. BJ may need to be replaced because he looks past it but Talau is a ready replacement.

We aren't going to win the game though with no ball and that comes down to defense and being smart with the footy. I heard Payten talk the other night and he said the same thing. When we have the ball we have to come up with smarter decisions.

 

[Jedi_Tiger]

If we keep losing maybe Maguire doesn't survive who knows...

Maybe yes maybe no but as I said in another post why rush to re-sign him why not wait until round 10/12 then decide. There was talk late last season that there was discontent in the dressing rooms

who would we get if we didn't re-sign him
Flannagan dear God
Bennett
or do we try for
Fitzgibbon
Jason Ryles

Bennett for a year with Ciraldo as assistant to take over

forgot about ciraldo yes that would be good

 

[Goanna57]

Nofo worries me a lot right now
hes attack has completely gone since he got his contract

he had one great year...it was a myth

The only myth is the coach

We've tried just about every coach in Australia.

Replacing a coach who's won two premierships with yet another new coaching experiment would be madness.

One premiership In nrl and even the club he won that at got rid of him and there still making finals. When he started we were 9th his first year 9th again next year 11th
do we need to hit rock bottom.Maguire has recruited majority of the playing squad and assistants of his choice it rests with him as he whould say he must take ownership of the performance’s

So what you are saying is Maguire developed a roster capable of making the finals for the next decade? Or are you suggesting it was 100% Anthony Seibold's influence on the roster that got them from 12th to 3rd in one season?

Before Maguire, Souths made the finals once in 10 NRL seasons (once in 20 NRL/ARL/NSWRL seasons), including 3 spoons. During Maguire they made the finals 4/6 years and won a comp. After Maguire they have made the finals 3 more consecutive years.

Doesn't matter if Souths eventually outsted Madge, he was very successful in turning one of the most under-performing clubs in the NRL era into a powerhouse. If that's the least of what Madge can do at the Tigers, so be it, give him the reins.

Souths fans permanently indebted to Madge, nobody before or after has had Souths in a Grand Final since 1971.

You don’t think he’s already got the reins all I can see his him leading them in the wrong direction but I hope I am wrong, I whould be very happy to eat humbly pie if we make finals

 

[Deleted member 3518]

Nofo worries me a lot right now
hes attack has completely gone since he got his contract

he had one great year...it was a myth

100%. But lets chuck a multi year deal at him.

Hahaha . Some of you guys are lunatics . Last weak you had him as one of our best , now it’s a race to bag the bloke out . I think that whole edge was horrendous , and I’m not sure Luci is an edge player , but he’s far from over rated .

 

[hank37w]

If we keep losing maybe Maguire doesn't survive who knows...

Maybe yes maybe no but as I said in another post why rush to re-sign him why not wait until round 10/12 then decide. There was talk late last season that there was discontent in the dressing rooms

who would we get if we didn't re-sign him
Flannagan dear God
Bennett
or do we try for
Fitzgibbon
Jason Ryles

Flanno would certainly give us a boost, but the 4 year ban that follows wouldn't be so great.

 

[tigerbalm]

Nofo worries me a lot right now
hes attack has completely gone since he got his contract

he had one great year...it was a myth

100%. But lets chuck a multi year deal at him.

Hahaha . Some of you guys are lunatics . Last weak you had him as one of our best , now it’s a race to bag the bloke out . I think that whole edge was horrendous , and I’m not sure Luci is an edge player , but he’s far from over rated .

Nah, dust off the old Noffa thread. Plenty were concerned ( me included) on locking him into a long contract based on 1 good season. Only 2 weeks in but signs are not great.

 

[hank37w]

Nofo worries me a lot right now
hes attack has completely gone since he got his contract

he had one great year...it was a myth

The only myth is the coach

We've tried just about every coach in Australia.

Replacing a coach who's won two premierships with yet another new coaching experiment would be madness.

One premiership In nrl and even the club he won that at got rid of him and there still making finals. When he started we were 9th his first year 9th again next year 11th
do we need to hit rock bottom.Maguire has recruited majority of the playing squad and assistants of his choice it rests with him as he whould say he must take ownership of the performance’s

So what you are saying is Maguire developed a roster capable of making the finals for the next decade? Or are you suggesting it was 100% Anthony Seibold's influence on the roster that got them from 12th to 3rd in one season?

Before Maguire, Souths made the finals once in 10 NRL seasons (once in 20 NRL/ARL/NSWRL seasons), including 3 spoons. During Maguire they made the finals 4/6 years and won a comp. After Maguire they have made the finals 3 more consecutive years.

Doesn't matter if Souths eventually outsted Madge, he was very successful in turning one of the most under-performing clubs in the NRL era into a powerhouse. If that's the least of what Madge can do at the Tigers, so be it, give him the reins.

Souths fans permanently indebted to Madge, nobody before or after has had Souths in a Grand Final since 1971.

Souff Sydney scum shouldn't even be in the comp.

Kick 'em out again!

 

[missutally14]

No contracts to be paid out, you could just show everyone the door. How many would you actually keep in this side?

For me it's probably:
Laurie
Liddle
Luci
Stefano

and that is about it.

I might consider a couple more (AD, Nofa, Joe O) but not on the contracts that they are currently on

We do not have a rudder. No voice. Half of them should not be paid just like you and i in our jobs. Benji may be over 30 but look at the respect and experience. I will be in Rookwood before they fix. Look at the list we hav lost ,starting at Teddy to Benji. Disgraceful performance.

 

[avocadoontoast]

Nofo worries me a lot right now
hes attack has completely gone since he got his contract

he had one great year...it was a myth

100%. But lets chuck a multi year deal at him.

Hahaha . Some of you guys are lunatics . Last weak you had him as one of our best , now it’s a race to bag the bloke out . I think that whole edge was horrendous , and I’m not sure Luci is an edge player , but he’s far from over rated .

Nah, dust off the old Noffa thread. Plenty were concerned ( me included) on locking him into a long contract based on 1 good season. Only 2 weeks in but signs are not great.

It was never going to end well. A lot of people said it at the time.

 

[jirskyr]

Nofo worries me a lot right now
hes attack has completely gone since he got his contract

he had one great year...it was a myth

The only myth is the coach

We've tried just about every coach in Australia.

Replacing a coach who's won two premierships with yet another new coaching experiment would be madness.

One premiership In nrl and even the club he won that at got rid of him and there still making finals. When he started we were 9th his first year 9th again next year 11th
do we need to hit rock bottom.Maguire has recruited majority of the playing squad and assistants of his choice it rests with him as he whould say he must take ownership of the performance’s

So what you are saying is Maguire developed a roster capable of making the finals for the next decade? Or are you suggesting it was 100% Anthony Seibold's influence on the roster that got them from 12th to 3rd in one season?

Before Maguire, Souths made the finals once in 10 NRL seasons (once in 20 NRL/ARL/NSWRL seasons), including 3 spoons. During Maguire they made the finals 4/6 years and won a comp. After Maguire they have made the finals 3 more consecutive years.

Doesn't matter if Souths eventually outsted Madge, he was very successful in turning one of the most under-performing clubs in the NRL era into a powerhouse. If that's the least of what Madge can do at the Tigers, so be it, give him the reins.

Souths fans permanently indebted to Madge, nobody before or after has had Souths in a Grand Final since 1971.

You don’t think he’s already got the reins all I can see his him leading them in the wrong direction but I hope I am wrong, I whould be very happy to eat humbly pie if we make finals

What I am saying is Madge is capable. People continue to belittle his performance at Souths and offer a single argument that eventually Souths got rid of him. Apparently, eventually some players tired of him.

90% of coaches are dumped in the end; most don't leave happily. It's a silly argument against the coach IMO.

If Madge can get Tigers 1 premiership in 6 years, if that's a benchmark for an ordinary coach, then I'll take it with arms wide open. He didn't even jag a premiership like Sheens, he legit had Souths knocking on the door of the GF for 4 straight years, and they've more or less been doing it ever since within his legacy.

Whether or not Madge can do it with Tigers remains to be seen, but I don't think it happens in 2 seasons and 2 matches. I think the side was very encumbered by previous decisions when Madge joined and he hasn't had enough opportunity to turn things around on his own terms, with players he signed / agreed to sign. I think 2021 is legitimately a year where Madge can say he's got a side that isn't mostly the legacy of someone else.

That all being said, Ivan Cleary had his team in the GF last year, got Panthers to the finals before that, got Warriors to the finals before that. He clearly can coach as well, if the factors fall his way. Cleary couldn't get the Tigers to the finals but he only tried for 1 season, despite being given an open cheque book. Madge still hasn't been given open-slather, and he never will, because Tigers now recruit via committee.

So personally I think you let Madge see out his contract. You give him the stability he would ordinarily require to develop a consistent finals football side. You don't undermine him 2 rounds in and you don't question his decision-making every single week. That's what it takes to turn around a side like Wests Tigers.

If you instead scrutinise Madge every 5 minutes, if you question his decision-making and demand he dump players. If you continue to mention "egg shells" or "players won't play for this coach" - then he is doomed, regardless of how capable he might actually be, and the players certainly won't perform, or will have excuses to not perform, if all they hear is media and fans questioning whether the coach has ability.

I saw is written in another thread, reportedly Josh Reynolds told someone players didn't rate the coach. Oh yeah, the players who are performing badly, it's the coaches fault? If I was to go now and speak to Josh Reynolds or Russell Packer or Mbye or Brooks, ask them what they thought of the coach, they are gonna say "oh mate coach is fine, it's my personal performances that have been of unacceptable quality, particularly for my wage and seniority within the team".

And then your alternatives - to sack Madge mid-contract, pay him out with money we barely have, and what are your options / chances with the next coach? Who wants to join Tigers if we cut every coach inside 3-4 years? Who is going to want to sign up with us to go through the mega stress of turning around a poor club, a club that by definition doesn't win enough, and then be criticised roundly when they continue to not win enough under your leadership?

 

[hank37w]

We can start over.

It starts next week up in Newcastle.

 

[Deleted member 3518]

Look , I hate to break it to everyone , but this year is the first year where we didn’t just sign average players , who would compete for 20 of 24 games for a win loss of 11 and 13 . What we did do , is sign a whole bunch of 19-21 year olds , and watch them nurture together . Most of those guys , you’re Lauries , AD and Simpkin of the world are in key positions . It is now a waiting game . Really our season for real starts this week . Many of us knew we would lose both these games , not to the extent that we did , but hey , as long as we get rid of BJ , we should have at least a feeling of trust that we arnt going to bleed 30 points before we even get started. As for the rest , I dunno , it’s going to be a bumpy ride , and there is going to be some bodies left on the side of the ride as we drive along . BJ is the first , Brooks needs to fix his kicking game pronto , and some of the middles and edges need to start looking over thier shoulder , as we do have Simpkins and Blore to come in and take a couple of jobs .
The team that played on Sunday will not be the one that finishes the season.

Most rebuilds need a full tear down , then build up . I’m praying that won’t happen to us , but I’m no longer confident . But really our first test as to where we are is this week . We played 2 teams with years worth of continuity , and we got torched . It’s a bit of a bull crap draw , but what can you do . I would have preferred to ease into the season and build confidence , even if it is false .

 

[Goanna57]

Nofo worries me a lot right now
hes attack has completely gone since he got his contract

he had one great year...it was a myth

The only myth is the coach

We've tried just about every coach in Australia.

Replacing a coach who's won two premierships with yet another new coaching experiment would be madness.

One premiership In nrl and even the club he won that at got rid of him and there still making finals. When he started we were 9th his first year 9th again next year 11th
do we need to hit rock bottom.Maguire has recruited majority of the playing squad and assistants of his choice it rests with him as he whould say he must take ownership of the performance’s

So what you are saying is Maguire developed a roster capable of making the finals for the next decade? Or are you suggesting it was 100% Anthony Seibold's influence on the roster that got them from 12th to 3rd in one season?

Before Maguire, Souths made the finals once in 10 NRL seasons (once in 20 NRL/ARL/NSWRL seasons), including 3 spoons. During Maguire they made the finals 4/6 years and won a comp. After Maguire they have made the finals 3 more consecutive years.

Doesn't matter if Souths eventually outsted Madge, he was very successful in turning one of the most under-performing clubs in the NRL era into a powerhouse. If that's the least of what Madge can do at the Tigers, so be it, give him the reins.

Souths fans permanently indebted to Madge, nobody before or after has had Souths in a Grand Final since 1971.

You don’t think he’s already got the reins all I can see his him leading them in the wrong direction but I hope I am wrong, I whould be very happy to eat humbly pie if we make finals

What I am saying is Madge is capable. People continue to belittle his performance at Souths and offer a single argument that eventually Souths got rid of him. Apparently, eventually some players tired of him.

90% of coaches are dumped in the end; most don't leave happily. It's a silly argument against the coach IMO.

If Madge can get Tigers 1 premiership in 6 years, if that's a benchmark for an ordinary coach, then I'll take it with arms wide open. He didn't even jag a premiership like Sheens, he legit had Souths knocking on the door of the GF for 4 straight years, and they've more or less been doing it ever since within his legacy.

Whether or not Madge can do it with Tigers remains to be seen, but I don't think it happens in 2 seasons and 2 matches. I think the side was very encumbered by previous decisions when Madge joined and he hasn't had enough opportunity to turn things around on his own terms, with players he signed / agreed to sign. I think 2021 is legitimately a year where Madge can say he's got a side that isn't mostly the legacy of someone else.

That all being said, Ivan Cleary had his team in the GF last year, got Panthers to the finals before that, got Warriors to the finals before that. He clearly can coach as well, if the factors fall his way. Cleary couldn't get the Tigers to the finals but he only tried for 1 season, despite being given an open cheque book. Madge still hasn't been given open-slather, and he never will, because Tigers now recruit via committee.

So personally I think you let Madge see out his contract. You give him the stability he would ordinarily require to develop a consistent finals football side. You don't undermine him 2 rounds in and you don't question his decision-making every single week. That's what it takes to turn around a side like Wests Tigers.

If you instead scrutinise Madge every 5 minutes, if you question his decision-making and demand he dump players. If you continue to mention "egg shells" or "players won't play for this coach" - then he is doomed, regardless of how capable he might actually be, and the players certainly won't perform, or will have excuses to not perform, if all they hear is media and fans questioning whether the coach has ability.

I saw is written in another thread, reportedly Josh Reynolds told someone players didn't rate the coach. Oh yeah, the players who are performing badly, it's the coaches fault? If I was to go now and speak to Josh Reynolds or Russell Packer or Mbye or Brooks, ask them what they thought of the coach, they are gonna say "oh mate coach is fine, it's my personal performances that have been of unacceptable quality, particularly for my wage and seniority within the team".

And then your alternatives - to sack Madge mid-contract, pay him out with money we barely have, and what are your options / chances with the next coach? Who wants to join Tigers if we cut every coach inside 3-4 years? Who is going to want to sign up with us to go through the mega stress of turning around a poor club, a club that by definition doesn't win enough, and then be criticised roundly when they continue to not win enough under your leadership?

I’m not asking for a premiership this year all I’m asking for is team to be competitive and be moving in the right direction,I’m not seeing ether. But hey if you’re happy to plod along for the next 2/3 season’s who am I to judge. Although you do make some good points some even if I don’t totally agree